Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by vaderito on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:01 pm

Rian wasn't joking about Letter Never Sent. Beefcake scene was there! cheers
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 1:06 am


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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by vaderito on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 6:31 am

I love cinematography in this. My favorite shots:

Snow White and the Prince Charming

Rey and Kylo Force Bond during the rain (the watery glass behind him with falling embers is like rain in her portion of the scene)

#handsex Warm lighting they shot the hands with is just swoon

Luke and Kylo stand off on Crait
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Piper Maru on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 8:28 am

I won't post the pictures here because they're NSFW, but I'm surprised that no one associated the close-up in the hand scene with Love, from Gaspar Noé.

Love debuted at Cannes and is basically an artsy +18 movie with explicit sex scenes, but the director explores them differently. The color of skin and extreme close ups of lips, hands, hair and genitals are the visual devices, to the point where you don't know what you're looking at. It's just skin over skin, with soft golden light, red hues and high contrast.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by rey09 on Sun 24 Dec 2017, 9:07 am

Didn't see Letter Never Sent but from everyone has said about it in the past, I think it's pretty blatant how the storyline mirrors reylo in TLJ. People nailed that!
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by MrsWindu on Mon 25 Dec 2017, 5:37 am

@panki wrote:I see a parallel between the trailer scene of Kylo looking out at the AT-ATs and other war equipment being built/repaired, and the Night of "Nations Pride" premiere red window scene in Inglorious Basterds.

While these two images are not exactly alike, I get the same sense of melancholy from them.....the feel of a person determined to finish something and about to embark on a dangerous and suicidal mission (with what they are against present beyond the glass- the FO war machine in Kylo's case and the nazi flag in Shoshanna's case)....I wonder if Kylo plans to take down Snoke (with Rey's help?).




@panki

I did see this concept art in The Art of TLJ that resembles the contemplation in front of a huge circular window

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 2:43 pm

Just to add to the list, Rey's descent into the Vagina Cave where she hopes to see her parents and instead sees the infinite series of herself before seeing only shadows (her and Ben?) in the mirror and ultimately just her reflection comes from Under the Skin. Extraterrestrial takes the form of a young, attractive human female and drives around Scotland in a van, luring hitchhiking men in via means of seduction only to 'prep' them for consumption.

Wikipedia wrote:The novel is darkly satirical. Its themes include sexism, big business, factory farming, and environmental decay; and reflects on more personal questions of sexual identity, humanity, snobbery, and mercy.





The mirror shot of Rey's multiplicities and the sequence with Eleven in the first series of Stranger Things references this somewhat NSFW (butt shot) when one of the victims is lured into undressing because he believes he's going to have sex with ScarJo's character but she's luring him in and prepping him in for food

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 2:45 pm

And @Kylo Rey's excellent notes from this week's Slashfilm podcast, also referencing The Wizard of Oz and Anthony Minghella's stage production of Madame Butterfly.

@Kylo Rey wrote:
@snufkin wrote:

That's 1.30a Wednesday, Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) for those of you in other time zones should you want to listen
@snufkin

Rian Johnson: "No one listens to what I say." I know he said this half jokingly but DAMN show this to the antis. He played Rey's theme on a banjo at the beginning of the podcast haha. Things of note:

- Rey's mirror cave scene was visually inspired by the film Under the Skin (I really need to get around to watching this).




- One version of that scene included lots of Reys going backwards in age till she was a baby being held by a shadow that you might think is the mother but would turn out to be an older Rey holding baby Tey. Really wacky.

- Rian compared Snoke to the Wizard of Oz with his theatricality and everything (another thing Reylo's discussed).

- He's adamant about not being influenced by public reaction while writing TLJ. It was literally impossible. He saw dailies while writing, but he was writing it before even seeing a rough final cut of TFA. Praised JJ's casting sensibilities. He wouldn't go back and change any of the decisions he made, even if he had the opportunity to.

- Snoke's throne room was staged and inspired by the look of Anthony Minghella's opera "Madame Butterfly."




- The curtains were not CGI but actually a huge fabric that wrapped around the set. They were edited in post by ILM to take out any creases/wrinkles and to make it look seamless.

- He had a "big a** document" on his laptop which he would update regularly and send to/discuss with Kiri Hart of the story group. He wrote down his thoughts surrounding major TFA questions i.e. Rey's parentage. He wrote down all possible scenarios. Even terrible ones. One of them included Rey as a robot. He said some of them matched Reddit theories too lol.

- On the implications of Broom Boi meaning anyone can have the force: Story is focused on Rey's hero's journey. Assuming this means they won't delve into this too much in IX.

- He was aware of George Lucas' original storyline for the ST but his chief inspiration was TFA and its script and his previous knowledge of SW. Emphasised the blank slate, how each director can do their own thing (PlotGate is back lol).

- No pushback from LF over killing Luke. Rian was breaking the story with them along the way and he didn't just want to drop the script on them as a surprise.

- The red dust on Crait was used as you can't show blood in a SW movie too much. Symbolises violence. He liked how the battle evolves into a "hellscape."

- Going to be in charge of the entire plot front to back for his trilogy. Sounds like he may be directing all three or at least majorly involved with all. May try to squeeze in directing original movies in between or beforehand.

- He was offered a lot of franchise projects after doing Looper. Turned them all down. Was working on a sci-fi movie with a cool premise for 1.5 yrs after doing Looper but couldn't crack the script so he dropped it. Thinks KK chose him based off Looper. After his meeting with her where he asked to think about it, he went home and watched a bunch of mountain climbing disaster documentaries for a few days lol.

He chucks in quite a lot of film references. No offence to JJ but you can tell Rian has a very extensive knowledge of film and film history. He did his research and knows his stuff.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 2:47 pm

Introduction to Finn and Rose looking for the Master Codebreaker on Canto Bight references the famous tracking shot from Wings

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 6:06 pm

Duh thought of a tangential one, but Rian's a huge fan of Inception which his buddy (and alien cameo) JGL was in. We do have two people in a (for now) tragic romance connecting psychically into a world where it's just the two of them



Not saying they'll have the same ending as these characters, just that the psychic connection between lovers and the divide between them seems like there's a bit of an influence there

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Piper Maru on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 7:28 pm

Probably not the right thread for this, but I'm posting this here because it's relevant to cinematography/visual imagery. I was watching some video clips today and ran across this gem:

A song called Love about "being young and in love" (actual lyrics of the song) with a couple reaching across space to touch hands? HA!





It's even funnier when you remember that Rey's Official Spotify Playlist has Blue Jeans, also from Lana Del Rey, a song about a girl falling in love with a bad boy "like James Dean, for sure" who is "fresh to death and sick as ca-cancer", someone she'll love "until the end of time" despite everything.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:23 pm


Pride and Prejudice

North and South

Romeo and Juliet

West Side Story

REYLO
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by thescavenger on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:37 pm

@SheLitAFire wrote:
Pride and Prejudice

North and South

Romeo and Juliet

West Side Story

REYLO
@SheLitAFire

Great compilation!

I would draw comparison with the Zeffirelli's R&J the most, simply because of the naivety and innocence of the touching (and not full on holding hands). You sort of feel the discovery and fragility of it all, especially when it represents the awakening in two young people who have not experienced nor understood such a feeling.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 12:24 am

Too good to not mention here in terms of influences even if its not actually photography/editing, Big Ups to @MyOnlyHope for catching this particular reference

@MyOnlyHope wrote:@SheLitAFire Remember when Rian was tweeting all those West Side Story Tonight references in the lead up to the trailer?

Turns out the whole Tonight sequence is like the most Force Bond thing ever in terms of how Rian pictured the technicalities of the connection. Just lol.

From TLJ: "Can you see my surroundings? I can't see yours. Just you."

MARIA: Imagine being afraid of you.
TONY: You see.
MARIA: I see you.
TONY: Maria, see only me.

*Breaks into song*
MARIA
Only you, you're the only thing I'll see forever
In my eyes in my words and in everything I do
Nothing else but you
Ever

TONY
And there's nothing for me but Maria
Every sight that I see is Maria

MARIA
Tony, Tony

TONY
Always you, every thought I'll ever know
Everywhere I go you'll be

TONY & MARIA
All the world is only you and me

MARIA
Tonight, tonight
It all began tonight
I saw you and the world went away

Tonight, tonight
There's only you tonight
What you are, what you do, what you say

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 2:40 am

the fight between the Praetorian guards reminded me of Mr and Mrs Smith
the scene where their fingers touch  

  reminds me of Tarzan and Jane, ok the comparison is perhaps not strong but the feeling that the scene is.....so powerfull!!!!
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 4:50 am

Straight from my TV because I couldn't find this particular scene on the internet.

This is from Baz Luhrmann's Romeo + Juliet, their angsty goodbye before the final act. Reminded me a lot of the last Force Bond scene.













In their case, Juliet is in a hurry because her mother is coming to tell her she's engaged to Paris and Romeo is on the run. In Rey and Kylo's case, Rey is the one running away and Kylo is the one facing the consequences of his choices and the burden of his family. In both cases, the girl has the high ground.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by thescavenger on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 8:31 am

Just a quick mention for now, but the red/white contrast on Crait (plus what Rian Johnson said about it) reminds me so much of Snow White - especially referring to how the Queen pricked her finger while sewing by the windowsill and drops of blood fell on the snow and how she wished she had a daughter with skin as white as snow and lips as red as blood. 

This is from the beginning of the film Snow White and the Huntsman



And here is Crait:



Even Rian Johnson has mentioned himself that red was meant to signify blood and the violence

“I wanted to do a big battle and communicate the violence of it, but you don’t show blood in Star Wars movies, these are PG-13 movies, so the initial thing was to have a movie where the landscape itself could graphically communicate the violence of this battle. Also the notion that the landscape could evolve during the course of the battle, the idea at the beginning it’s white and pristine and it gets scarred and increasingly red. And when the cannon goes, it blows it all away so it just becomes a red hellscape. And as Luke comes back to the legend he needs to be and [starts] healing the world, the salt starts snowing down so it’s back to being pristine.”

So there are some definite classic fairytale callbacks for me personally.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 9:08 am

@thescavenger wrote:Just a quick mention for now, but the red/white contrast on Crait (plus what Rian Johnson said about it) reminds me so much of Snow White - especially referring to how the Queen pricked her finger while sewing by the windowsill and drops of blood fell on the snow and how she wished she had a daughter with skin as white as snow and lips as red as blood. 

This is from the beginning of the film Snow White and the Huntsman



And here is Crait:



Even Rian Johnson has mentioned himself that red was meant to signify blood and the violence

“I wanted to do a big battle and communicate the violence of it, but you don’t show blood in Star Wars movies, these are PG-13 movies, so the initial thing was to have a movie where the landscape itself could graphically communicate the violence of this battle. Also the notion that the landscape could evolve during the course of the battle, the idea at the beginning it’s white and pristine and it gets scarred and increasingly red. And when the cannon goes, it blows it all away so it just becomes a red hellscape. And as Luke comes back to the legend he needs to be and [starts] healing the world, the salt starts snowing down so it’s back to being pristine.”

So there are some definite classic fairytale callbacks for me personally.
@thescavenger

and we have plenty of red in this film, even the level of violence is high, let's watch the fight against the Praetorian guards. I have never seen so much red, only when I look at a Horror movie Smile, but I also interpret red as loss
A Star Wars different from the old trilogies and that's why I love it .
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Blood Moon on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 12:51 pm

@snufkin @Kylo Rey

Thx for bringing this over here because I would have missed that, I need to find some time to listen to this podcast.
Just seeing those Madame Butterfly shots, you immediately see the inspiration.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Let The Past Die on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:39 pm

@Teo oswald wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Just a quick mention for now, but the red/white contrast on Crait (plus what Rian Johnson said about it) reminds me so much of Snow White - especially referring to how the Queen pricked her finger while sewing by the windowsill and drops of blood fell on the snow and how she wished she had a daughter with skin as white as snow and lips as red as blood. 

This is from the beginning of the film Snow White and the Huntsman



And here is Crait:



Even Rian Johnson has mentioned himself that red was meant to signify blood and the violence

“I wanted to do a big battle and communicate the violence of it, but you don’t show blood in Star Wars movies, these are PG-13 movies, so the initial thing was to have a movie where the landscape itself could graphically communicate the violence of this battle. Also the notion that the landscape could evolve during the course of the battle, the idea at the beginning it’s white and pristine and it gets scarred and increasingly red. And when the cannon goes, it blows it all away so it just becomes a red hellscape. And as Luke comes back to the legend he needs to be and [starts] healing the world, the salt starts snowing down so it’s back to being pristine.”

So there are some definite classic fairytale callbacks for me personally.
@thescavenger

and we have plenty of red in this film, even the level of violence is high, let's watch the fight against the Praetorian guards. I have never seen so much red, only when I look at a Horror movie Smile, but I also interpret red as loss
A Star Wars different from the old trilogies and that's why I love it .
@Teo oswald
Just a small observation. I watched The Brothers Bloom last week, a Rian Johnson film. In it there is a reference to the colour red and how it stands for temptation. It stuck in my mind, being that red is used so much in TLJ. It tickled me that Rian makes a thing about colour, especially red.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Kessel on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 1:47 pm

@thescavenger wrote:Just a quick mention for now, but the red/white contrast on Crait (plus what Rian Johnson said about it) reminds me so much of Snow White - especially referring to how the Queen pricked her finger while sewing by the windowsill and drops of blood fell on the snow and how she wished she had a daughter with skin as white as snow and lips as red as blood. 

This is from the beginning of the film Snow White and the Huntsman



And here is Crait:



Even Rian Johnson has mentioned himself that red was meant to signify blood and the violence

“I wanted to do a big battle and communicate the violence of it, but you don’t show blood in Star Wars movies, these are PG-13 movies, so the initial thing was to have a movie where the landscape itself could graphically communicate the violence of this battle. Also the notion that the landscape could evolve during the course of the battle, the idea at the beginning it’s white and pristine and it gets scarred and increasingly red. And when the cannon goes, it blows it all away so it just becomes a red hellscape. And as Luke comes back to the legend he needs to be and [starts] healing the world, the salt starts snowing down so it’s back to being pristine.”

So there are some definite classic fairytale callbacks for me personally.
@thescavenger

Kylo bleeding after hitting his wound in TFA also fits with that theme, not to mention he also looks like Snow White...Wink

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 3:05 pm

@Kessel
to foreshadowing where kylo will be on Crait
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 3:06 pm

@Let The Past Die If you're interested, there's a link on the 2nd post to this thread about Steven Yedlin, who's the Director of Photography for all of Rian's film and an evangelist for color theory in film. More than likely the two of them cooked up the red color scheme because it's a technique they've worked on for over 4 films together.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Let The Past Die on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 3:17 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Let The Past Die If you're interested, there's a link on the 2nd post to this thread about Steven Yedlin, who's the Director of Photography for all of Rian's film and an evangelist for color theory in film. More than likely the two of them cooked up the red color scheme because it's a technique they've worked on for over 4 films together.
@snufkin

Thank you! Completely missed that on my first read through, it was in was of those spoiler type boxes.

That chart is really interesting, I think I'm beginning to watch films in a different light now.

I found it so interesting that Rian had one of his characters actually explain in The Brothers Bloom what the colour red represented.

In TLJ, the colour red was so powerfully represented Craig and the Throne room were absolutely stunning.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 3:36 pm

@snufkin Looking back through your OP, you were so right about how everything would look amazing. ESB and TLJ are the two most visually stunning Star Wars movies imo. TFA is no slouch in that department either.
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