Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by LadyHa on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 1:25 am

@snufkin wrote:@LadyHa I have joked that I would have preferred that it be Leia on the island with Rey as a good 'ol feminist consciousness-raising sessions where the old Force Tree had a copy of Our Bodies, Our Selves and a couple Virginia Woolf and Audre Lord titles. Luke is absolutely the WORST person to have around for Rey's journey in connecting with her Divine Feminine. On the cinematography or at least blocking/editing front, notice how both films end with a parting/longing glance between Rey and Ben over the distance which divides them and then ends with the last spoken dialogue of Rey with Leia, Ben's mother, holding hands where Leia gets the last word.
@snufkin

Right! Leia simply tells Rey "May the Force Be With You" at the end of TFA - they have obviously had conversations, but we never got to see them talk much. Too bad, wouldn't more scenes between Rey & Leia have been grand?

"feminist consciousness-raising sessions" - this just gave me flashbacks to my first Women's Studies course where the professor invited us all back to her house, whipped out the speculum, and showed us her cervix. Way to snap me out of my prudery! Ah, the 90s.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by 12 Parsnips on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 3:00 am

@LadyHa wrote:I'm sure that others noticed this before, but I didn't until I got the digital version.  When Kylo closes his gloved hand at the end of the second force bond scene, there is a fade over to a spinning blue ship that starts right in the middle of his fist. It recalls the blue amulet tracker that is often shown in Leia's, Finn's, or Rey's hand and represents a connection to Rey.  It happens pretty fast, so I made a slowed down GIF to show it alongside Rey making a similar motion:

@LadyHa

Great observation, @LadyHa! Thank you for that and the gifs! What a great visual. Smile
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 10:23 am

@LadyHa I really wish that either of the tie-in novels had shown the interim period when Rey arrives from SKB, meets Leia, and then departs. Because they probably spent that time together and I for one would've loved to have listened in on their conversation and what Leia told Rey about her family and the story so far. Maybe even helped Rey fix her hair and gave her a decent meal for once (unlike Maz, who just gives her bar snacks and drops a guilt trip on her).

Ha, yes the mirror consciousness raising. Well we know that Rey went for the DS cave which looked rather anatomical and the whole situation ended up with her wet and holding hands with Ben in an intimate, firelit setting. At least until Luke busted in and told her to stop.

Also anybody wanna bet that this gifset mysteriously ends up Reddit and elsewhere as something somebody else supposedly discovered?
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Teo oswald on Mon 19 Mar 2018, 5:34 pm

@LadyHa when kylo clenches his fists it means emotions, positive or negative
in that case, it is as if he wanted to keep those drops of water like a souvenir from Rey Smile
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by LadyHa on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 9:46 am

@snufkin wrote:
Also anybody wanna bet that this gifset mysteriously ends up Reddit and elsewhere as something somebody else supposedly discovered?
@snufkin

Haha, I'd be happy -somebody should go ahead and share it! Actually, someone should make a higher quality version of the GIFs and add more shots of hands clenching or the tracker that are found throughout the film.

I've also been thinking about how filmmakers show mystical connections between lovers and the mirror from La Belle et La Bête. The mirror reflects different things for various characters, but Belle and the beast can see each other through it.  

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

@LadyHa wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
Also anybody wanna bet that this gifset mysteriously ends up Reddit and elsewhere as something somebody else supposedly discovered?
@snufkin

Haha, I'd be happy -somebody should go ahead and share it! Actually, someone should make a higher quality version of the GIFs and add more shots of hands clenching or the tracker that are found throughout the film.

I've also been thinking about how filmmakers show mystical connections between lovers and the mirror from La Belle et La Bête. The mirror reflects different things for various characters, but Belle and the beast can see each other through it.  

@LadyHa

Doesn’t Rian talk about hands as a motif in the film in one of his interviews? We do have the dual moments where Rey holds hands with another character- first Ben and then Leia.

And yeah the mirror! Most obviously a reference to Under the Skin, but also fairytales.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by nickandnora on Tue 20 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

About the fist clench - I noticed that in the cave scene there's a shot of Rey's hand zoomed in where she does the same thing (I think right before she touches the mirror).

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 2:34 pm

FINALLY! Somebody put together a list of all the cinematic influences with side-by-side, there's a couple I didn't catch like The Apartment

A COMPLETE GUIDE TO THE CINEMATIC REFERENCES AND INSPIRATIONS OF STAR WARS: THE LAST JEDI

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 2:50 pm

@snufkin

That's awesome. I wonder if these are all influences Rian has mentioned, or if some are observations from the author. I remember Rian mentioning "Under the Skin" (::shudders:Smile as an influence for Rey in the cave.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 3:07 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai It was definitely the *same* type of shot used in that Citizen Kane moment, but that moment in Under the Skin is iconic.

I absolutely LOVE this type of thing, looking at the cinematography as part of the storytelling (I can't take photos for sh*t) and I love how he's pushed this part of the franchise to the forefront beyond the usual pew pew pew No I am your father type of discussions. A lot of avid fans seem to only be focused on these films/stories and it's great to help kick people a little out of their comfort zone in learning more about the art and history of film.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by LadyHa on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 3:09 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai
@snufkin
Wow. This movie keeps on giving! Love it. 

I don't know why, but I find the Citizen Kane gif quite amusing.  Stiff old Orson Welles juxtaposed with lithe young Rey.

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 3:12 pm

@snufkin

I was on my way to post this. Excellent stuff!
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by vaderito on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 3:12 pm

Rian can tell the Three Outlaw Samurai story to whoever wants to believe it, but I always knew that Rick Heinrichs was hired for this



because of this:



It's just the way it is. Heinrichs is an awesome DP but I just knew that the real reason was staging a sexy fight with 2 lovers against multiple opponents. SW never had that in movies. So I insisted since his hiring that we would get something like Will and Elizabeth and we did.  cheers
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 3:14 pm

@LadyHa - I know that for some forum members here, this film wasn't their cup of tea. But I LOVE film history and the art behind it, so having somebody like Rian be in charge with Stephen Yedlin was like a dream come true for me. And here's another one a person posted to Twitter - Spaghetti Westerns



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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 6:30 pm

@snufkin wrote:@LadyHa - I know that for some forum members here, this film wasn't their cup of tea. But I LOVE film history and the art behind it, so having somebody like Rian be in charge with Stephen Yedlin was like a dream come true for me. And here's another one a person posted to Twitter - Spaghetti Westerns



@snufkin

Rian also retweeted the article. But yes, same I really like looking at this stuff too, especially as I feel like I have a lot to learn. Like the article says, this is a great way to find out about older films and broaden your knowledge. Great stuff.

I also read on tumblr that Steve Yedlin used a specific technique to light Driver's side in the 2nd FB scene, which is what cinematographers use when they want to light a character looking through a rain streaked window.

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 6:44 pm

@Kylo Rey Wouldn't you love to have the full BTS/Art of Book where they talk about those details and what it means for the story?
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 29 Mar 2018, 7:04 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Kylo Rey Wouldn't you love to have the full BTS/Art of Book where they talk about those details and what it means for the story?
@snufkin

I looooove BTS stuff so I'm glad the bonus features on TLJ were a lot better. I think they'll release a lot of stuff after the ST is over and they no longer have to preserve the mystery. I would love an in depth 'making of' book of the whole process. I'm looking forward to the BTS miniseries for TLJ that Ram Bergman announced.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Fri 30 Mar 2018, 1:48 pm

Speaking of Cinematography, I ran across a series of oral histories on Vimeo recorded last Spring when they had the 40th anniversary reunion of people who worked on the OT here in Northern California. Full set is here, but among it is a rare interview with Marcia Lucas about taking over editing of the first film


Star Wars 40th with Marcia Lucas and Duwayne Dunham from Athena Studios on Vimeo.



Note for @SoloSideCousin - she talks a little about working with Martin Scorcese on Taxi Driver
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:12 am

@LadyHa

The inception movie comes to my mind the scene of the mirror

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by SkyStar on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 8:17 am

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by adamdrivershair on Mon 02 Apr 2018, 2:43 pm

One thing I think Rian did was to invoke feelings of sympathy for Kylo by having the camera so close to his face. He's right up in there where Kylo is looking so pathetic taking his mask off, and SUPER close when he's having the meltdown in the elevator. We can't keep a reserved distance from him, even though we'd probably like to, given how raw his emotions are. But Rian wants us to feel what he's feeling.

I noticed some of this camera distance with Rey too, but not as much.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 10:59 am

Here's another one which just hit me over the head, the tree with the sacred texts is a bit of an Easter Egg to another female-centric coming-of-age story, Pan's Labyrinth

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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by Kylo Rey on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 11:14 am

@adamdrivershair wrote:One thing I think Rian did was to invoke feelings of sympathy for Kylo by having the camera so close to his face. He's right up in there where Kylo is looking so pathetic taking his mask off, and SUPER close when he's having the meltdown in the elevator. We can't keep a reserved distance from him, even though we'd probably like to, given how raw his emotions are. But Rian wants us to feel what he's feeling.

I noticed some of this camera distance with Rey too, but not as much.
@adamdrivershair

Completely agree. It makes us feel like we're right in Kylo's head, giving the audience an uncomfortable closeness and intimacy to him that he wasn't afforded in TFA. Very deliberate on Rian's part, I feel, to invoke the language of cinema in order to generate empathy for the 'villain'. There are a lot of close ups in TLJ which weren't as prominent in TFA or a lot of blockbusters nowadays, which makes me think he was bringing his indie background into play too. Also, close ups of eyes, hands etc. He says on the commentary as well that he wanted to get into Kylo's head and bring the audience to having sympathy, and if not that, at least reveal his vulnerabilities through Rey's eyes.
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by special_cases on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 11:27 am

Some of my favourite shots from TLJ. God, this film is beautiful!

























(If it's too many images for the forum, I will remove some of them Smile )
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Re: Cinematography in the ST - Influences, motifs, and techniques

Post by snufkin on Tue 03 Apr 2018, 11:56 am

Agreed, those are gorgeous! I’m glad I was able to see it atleast once in Imax 2-D, the format it was shot in.
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