EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by snufkin on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:46 am

How fairy tale can you get with that basic background, had a grudge against a princess/her society for a personal hurt and stole her child with intention to mold/harm. Or all the classic literature parallels, he's Miss Havisham and trying to manipulate Ben as his Estella. Geez, you can even say that Rey is a bit of a Pip (pun intended) with Han as her Magwitch.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by IoJovi on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:48 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:*shouts into a megaphone*

Listen up, everybody! We're now going to scour the canon in its entirety for every character who may have been badly injured and have reasons to bear a grudge against the Rebellion, Republic, and/or Resistance.

I know we've got only about three weeks, but if we focus and try really hard, we can do this!

*rambunctious applause*
@Darth Dingbat

I nominate @Panki. You can do this for our team!!!! Laughing
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:51 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:*shouts into a megaphone*

Listen up, everybody! We're now going to scour the canon in its entirety for every character who may have been badly injured and have reasons to bear a grudge against the Rebellion, Republic, and/or Resistance.

I know we've got only about three weeks, but if we focus and try really hard, we can do this!

*rambunctious applause*
@Darth Dingbat


I think I'll go do laundry instead.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:52 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:*shouts into a megaphone*

Listen up, everybody! We're now going to scour the canon in its entirety for every character who may have been badly injured and have reasons to bear a grudge against the Rebellion, Republic, and/or Resistance.

I know we've got only about three weeks, but if we focus and try really hard, we can do this!

*rambunctious applause*
@Darth Dingbat

And has a striking physical presence (7 ft tall or whatever) and likes luxury.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by vaderito on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:52 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Very cool article! The biggest takeaway for me was Snoke having a grudge against the Resistance and possibly blaming it for his injuries. Maybe Leia was originally supposed to take the brunt of his grudge as a result of something that happened in the 30 year gap.

The mention of Snoke being a predator who uses and discards his proteges is great too.
@FrolickingFizzgig

So it happened off screen when he first revealed himself. Which would be VERY disappointing that such weak sauce organization inflicts something on the strong Force User. I really hope they don't go there. I hope LF is aware that the Resistance isn't anyone's favorite, that the trench run in TFA is considered the worst scene in 7 movies, so this would be just awful if that wasn't some ancient injury or, lets say, Luke taking revenge for the Temple but Poe&his squad. Rolling Eyes


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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 10:58 am

@snufkin wrote:How fairy tale can you get with that basic background, had a grudge against a princess/her society for a personal hurt and stole her child with intention to mold/harm. Or all the classic literature parallels, he's Miss Havisham and trying to manipulate Ben as his Estella. Geez, you can even say that Rey is a bit of a Pip (pun intended) with Han as her Magwitch.
@snufkin

All the more intriguing that Snoke was originally meant to be a woman.

I found that article kind of spoilerific, tbh. I assume none of this is actually considered "spoilers", which just goes to show that the story is going to be full of twists and layers that are completely beyond our reach at the moment.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by vaderito on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:01 am

This is terrible. terrible. I can't believe it. I just can't.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:02 am

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Very cool article! The biggest takeaway for me was Snoke having a grudge against the Resistance and possibly blaming it for his injuries. Maybe Leia was originally supposed to take the brunt of his grudge as a result of something that happened in the 30 year gap.

The mention of Snoke being a predator who uses and discards his proteges is great too.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I don't think so. I think that they represent whoever inflicted injuries but it's too early for them to be the inflictors, unless it happened off screen when he first revealed himself. Which would be VERY disappointing that such weak sauce organization inflicts something on the strong Force User. I really hope they don't go there. I hope LF is aware that the Resistance isn't anyone's favorite, that the trench run in TFA is considered the worst scene in 7 movies, so this would be just awful if that wasn't some ancient injury or, lets say, Luke taking revenge for the Temple but Poe&his squad. Rolling Eyes
@vaderito

Well, the Resistance is what, a few years old? So it can't be the Resistance that inflicted those injuries. If his rage is motivating him, he would have had those injuries for a while.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:02 am

@vaderito wrote:This is terrible. terrible. I can't believe it. I just can't.
@vaderito

???

What is?
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by vaderito on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:08 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@vaderito wrote:This is terrible. terrible. I can't believe it. I just can't.
@vaderito

???

What is?
@Darth Dingbat

It's over. They ruined it. he isn't some ancient force from UR hinted in Aftermath but some total noob who was easily taken out by Poe or some such hot shot pilot cause you just know that's how he sustained his injuries. trench run. Bloody trench run. They spelled it. This is so disappointing.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:14 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@vaderito wrote:This is terrible. terrible. I can't believe it. I just can't.
@vaderito

???

What is?
@Darth Dingbat

It's over. They ruined it. he isn't some ancient force from UR hinted in Aftermath but some total noob who was easily taken out by Poe or some such hot shot pilot cause you just know that's how he sustained his injuries. trench run. Bloody trench run. They spelled it. This is so disappointing.
@vaderito

Good Lord, vad. Snoke's nemesis isn't Poe or other random pilot, geesh.

You have to ask yourself, "does this make any storytelling sense?" and if it doesn't, it's probably not happening. What has motivated Snoke to begin with? Why did he prey on Ben? How did he become the leader of the First Order? None of this has anything to do with the Resistance which has only existed for a few years. Leia herself, though...? Maybe.

Besides, as you know I've always believed Snoke is more of a Saruman and the Sauron is the dark presence in the UR. I'd be thrilled if this turned out to be the case.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by snufkin on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:15 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@snufkin wrote:How fairy tale can you get with that basic background, had a grudge against a princess/her society for a personal hurt and stole her child with intention to mold/harm. Or all the classic literature parallels, he's Miss Havisham and trying to manipulate Ben as his Estella. Geez, you can even say that Rey is a bit of a Pip (pun intended) with Han as her Magwitch.
@snufkin

All the more intriguing that Snoke was originally meant to be a woman.

I found that article kind of spoilerific, tbh. I assume none of this is actually considered "spoilers", which just goes to show that the story is going to be full of twists and layers that are completely beyond our reach at the moment.
@Darth Dingbat

That may be part of why they decided to change the gender. Because it's also a little too on the nose with the parallels to the White Witch manipulating Edmund's resentment and loneliness over being separated from his family into turning against them and allying himself with her because he thinks he can get (emotional support/validation/power) from her instead. I'd also be willing to bet that part of why the running time is 2.5 hours is because they're going to have to show some of the backstory for what happened with Ben and it's going to be more detailed/nuanced than just "awful space brat who killed other Jedi kids despite having cool parents and uncle."

The interesting question given some of what they've shown for Rey in FoD and the Star Wars Adventures comics is that if they intend to simply have Snoke be some kind of monolithic big bad. Or if even in that situation, he's shown to have turned out that way for a reason and like the other monstahs, Rey will end up both outwitting him but also pitying him. Because so far that seems to be part of the moral code they've written as part of the character.



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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by vaderito on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:17 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
Good Lord, vad. Snoke's nemesis isn't Poe or other random pilot, geesh.

You have to ask yourself, "does this make any storytelling sense?" and if it doesn't, it's probably not happening. What has motivated Snoke to begin with? Why did he prey on Ben? How did he become the leader of the First Order? None of this has anything to do with the Resistance which has only existed for a few years. Leia herself, though...? Maybe.

Besides, as you know I've always believed Snoke is more of a Saruman and the Sauron is the dark presence in the UR. I'd be thrilled if this turned out to be the case.
@Darth Dingbat

Nothing makes sense since they saved Mr Spark! Nothing. I wish they made TFA the way they wanted by killing him. This is just freakin ridiculous! I've read crack theories that are better than this sith. Seriously, what a disaster. the Resistance inflicted injuries? What a joke!

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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:27 am

@vaderito wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
Good Lord, vad. Snoke's nemesis isn't Poe or other random pilot, geesh.

You have to ask yourself, "does this make any storytelling sense?" and if it doesn't, it's probably not happening. What has motivated Snoke to begin with? Why did he prey on Ben? How did he become the leader of the First Order? None of this has anything to do with the Resistance which has only existed for a few years. Leia herself, though...? Maybe.

Besides, as you know I've always believed Snoke is more of a Saruman and the Sauron is the dark presence in the UR. I'd be thrilled if this turned out to be the case.
@Darth Dingbat

Nothing makes sense since they saved Mr Spark! Nothing. I wish they made TFA the way they wanted by killing him. This is just freakin ridiculous! I've read crack theories that are better than this sith. Seriously, what a disaster. the Resistance inflicted injuries? What a joke!

@vaderito
I'm just going to remind you of:

1) Lukefest marketing five months ago = Kylo has limited screen time
2) Finn screaming Rey's name = LF are sending mixed messages

Everything's fine. It makes sense that Snoke is going to be something related to the story of this trilogy with his own unique background, and it's not going to be "off-screen". It was something far more than Poe trench running that mangled Snoke. Like, lol?

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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by IoJovi on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:29 am

I too think there may be a bigger bad than Snoke.  The Saruman comparison is right on the nose, and if he's someone who has a beef with someone in the Resistance, it'd indicate as much.  No, he may not be the Ancient Evil hinted at in Bloodlines or Aftermath, but lord knows someone sure is!!!   

I also wasn't expecting a deeper, understandable characteristic of Snoke, like the one where he's been hurt physically and emotionally, so that indicates SOMETHING ELSE is pulling his strings.  

Interesting...


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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by rawpowah on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:30 am

Huh I'm confused. Where is it specified that Snoke's injuries were caused by the Resistance/Poe?

If anything, I think Snoke's injuries could have been caused by Luke - a strong Force user who is affiliated with the Resistance via his sister.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by MindAndMagic on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:33 am

Great stuff!

AS:"He’s a predator who identifies weakness and exploits it, drawing the young and promising to his side with promises of power, then using and discarding his protégés when they are no longer of use."



"Snoke is using you for your power. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you. You know it's true."

JJ:“So this mother and father had a target as a son, someone who’s watching their boy, and these parents aren’t there enough to guide him.”

AD:"Imagine the stakes for him in his youth," Driver says of Ren. "Having all these special powers and having your parents absent during that process on their own agendas, equally as selfish. He's lost in the world that he was raised in, and feels that he was kind of abandoned by the people he was closest with."

"I think the idea of someone whose parents are very much devoted to the cause, that's something a lot of people could relate to, whether it's religion or politics or a business. Not identifying with [that cause] yourself, I think, can give someone a complex.

Looking around and not identifying with what's around you, I think, affects how we behave."



"I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him."

AD: "He's been aware of this ability in himself from such a young age, and I don't think there's a lot of people around him who are on the same level. I think that there's something familiar there, as well as something to be feared, or something... that he can't quote place."
"He is hoping for hope. He is hoping for clarity."

DR: "She doesn't really know want she wants. She really is trying to do the right thing and, morally, her compass is really pointing north."

RJ: "This is very much about Rey trying to figure out how she fits into all of this, much like any of us as we're growing up, as we're transitioning form childhood into adulthood. You're going to meet people who you think are going to help, but don't. And help is also going to come from unexpected places."



AS: “He [Snoke] has suffered and he has suffered injury. The way that his malevolence comes out is in reaction to that. His hatred of the Resistance is fueled by what’s happened to him personally."

It's interesting that Snoke's goal is very different to that of the Emperor, it's a lot more personal. He probably wants to take advantage of Kylo (using the accident at the temple to bring him to make him abandon his former self) and Rey's ("bring her to me") rare power to execute his vengeance for whatever happened to him , use them as weapons or just take it all for himself.


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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by vaderito on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:35 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
I'm just going to remind you of:

1) Lukefest marketing five months ago = Kylo has limited screen time
2) Finn screaming Rey's name = LF are sending mixed messages

Everything's fine. It makes sense that Snoke is going to be something related to the story of this trilogy with his own unique background, and it's not going to be "off-screen". It was something far more than Poe trench running that mangled Snoke. Like, lol?

@FrolickingFizzgig

That's the only way to make him important to Snoke! Don't you see, it's about that stupid trio idea. Snoke knows Ben and Rey for their power and Finn for giving him the heave-ho. But Poe? They had to invent something to make him included and that's "inflicting trench run injuries". So lame. Snoke should have sustained his injuries during the Jedi/Sith war or something cooler not this. Sad Crying or Very sad
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:39 am

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:  
I'm just going to remind you of:

1) Lukefest marketing five months ago = Kylo has limited screen time
2) Finn screaming Rey's name = LF are sending mixed messages

Everything's fine. It makes sense that Snoke is going to be something related to the story of this trilogy with his own unique background, and it's not going to be "off-screen". It was something far more than Poe trench running that mangled Snoke. Like, lol?

@FrolickingFizzgig

That's the only way to make him important to Snoke! Don't you see, it's about that stupid trio idea. Snoke knows Ben and Rey for their power and Finn for giving him the heave-ho. But Poe? They had to invent something to make him included and that's "inflicting trench run injuries". So lame. Snoke should have sustained his injuries during the Jedi/Sith war or something cooler not this. Sad Crying or Very sad
@vaderito
Snoke did not get those injuries from a literal trench run. Poe isn't even a fly on the wall to him. They were just making the comparison to Snoke having war-related injuries that he has a serious grudge about, that's all. Of course he has something against the Republic/the Resistance. He aimed straight for their capital with his planet weapon.

My best guess is Snoke's background was originally meant to focus on Leia, as IX was intended to be her movie in the way VII was Han's and VIII will be Luke's.


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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth_Awakened on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:43 am

“The thing about Snoke is that he is extremely strong with the Force, the dark side of the Force. He’s terribly powerful, of course. But he is also a very vulnerable and wounded character,” Serkis says. “He has suffered and he has suffered injury. The way that his malevolence comes out is in reaction to that. His hatred of the Resistance is fueled by what’s happened to him personally.

This little bolded quote can be explained by "some members of the Resistance did something to Snoke".

It could be Leia during the Rebellion, it could be Luke during the first DS trench run, or hundred other possibilities.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:45 am

@IoJovi wrote:I too think there may be a bigger bad than Snoke.  The Saruman comparison is right on the nose, and if he's someone who has a beef with someone in the Resistance, it'd indicate as much.  No, he may not be the Ancient Evil hinted at in Bloodlines or Aftermath, but lord knows someone sure is!!!   

I also wasn't expecting a deeper, understandable characteristic Snoke (he's been hurt physically and emotionally), so that indicates SOMETHING ELSE is pulling his strings.  

Interesting...
@IoJovi

I mean, this is basically the First Order right here.



IMO, of course.
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by panki on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:46 am

@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:  
I'm just going to remind you of:

1) Lukefest marketing five months ago = Kylo has limited screen time
2) Finn screaming Rey's name = LF are sending mixed messages

Everything's fine. It makes sense that Snoke is going to be something related to the story of this trilogy with his own unique background, and it's not going to be "off-screen". It was something far more than Poe trench running that mangled Snoke. Like, lol?

@FrolickingFizzgig

That's the only way to make him important to Snoke! Don't you see, it's about that stupid trio idea. Snoke knows Ben and Rey for their power and Finn for giving him the heave-ho. But Poe? They had to invent something to make him included and that's "inflicting trench run injuries". So lame. Snoke should have sustained his injuries during the Jedi/Sith war or something cooler not this. Sad Crying or Very sad
@vaderito

And how exactly did you conclude that Snoke got his injuries from Poe's trench run? Snoke was around long before Poe even joined the resistance (Poe was not even part of the founding members of the resistance in Bloodline but joined later and he has yet to even share a scene with Snoke)....so unless Poe has a time machine stashed in his x-wing, its impossible for him to have injured Snoke in the past. If you want to blame one of the resistance pilots, Snap Wexley, Jessika Pava, Joph Seastriker or even Greer Sonnel would be more likely candidates.

Secondly, Poe is being projected as Hux's enemy, since they are both being shown on Disney Tours as part of the Crait battle....like Finn is being linked to Phasma. So that leaves Rey/Kylo/ Luke to deal with Snoke in TLJ.

This 'Poe was supposed to have died' argument is as valid as Kylo is a robotic non-skywalker jedi killer, Rey is a part Asian named Kira and Kylo keeps his enemies ashes in a box....all discarded concepts with zero canon value.


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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by ZioRen on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:46 am

Someone on Tumblr also said this, but it seriously feels like LF marketing, the actors, and Rian Johnson have been following the bulls*** thrown Reylo and Kylo fans' way for all these years and are specifically responding to validate us now. All these theories and explanations and "excuses" that they said was just us doing the oh-so-dreaded """woobifying""" of the villain have been shown to be canon. Like wonderful little dominoes falling!
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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by panki on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:52 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Very cool article! The biggest takeaway for me was Snoke having a grudge against the Resistance and possibly blaming it for his injuries. Maybe Leia was originally supposed to take the brunt of his grudge as a result of something that happened in the 30 year gap.

The mention of Snoke being a predator who uses and discards his proteges is great too.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I don't think so. I think that they represent whoever inflicted injuries but it's too early for them to be the inflictors, unless it happened off screen when he first revealed himself. Which would be VERY disappointing that such weak sauce organization inflicts something on the strong Force User. I really hope they don't go there. I hope LF is aware that the Resistance isn't anyone's favorite, that the trench run in TFA is considered the worst scene in 7 movies, so this would be just awful if that wasn't some ancient injury or, lets say, Luke taking revenge for the Temple but Poe&his squad. Rolling Eyes
@vaderito

Well, the Resistance is what, a few years old? So it can't be the Resistance that inflicted those injuries. If his rage is motivating him, he would have had those injuries for a while.
@Darth Dingbat

Oh damn! I think the pieces are falling into place.... I can think of a couple of people who could work in this scenario....especially one with a strong link to Leia.

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Re: EW TLJ Covers: Raw Powah Couple Edition

Post by IoJovi on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 11:56 am

@ZioRen wrote:Someone on Tumblr also said this, but it seriously feels like LF marketing, the actors, and Rian Johnson have been following the bulls*** thrown Reylo and Kylo fans' way for all these years and are specifically responding to validate us now. All these theories and explanations and "excuses" that they said was just us doing the oh-so-dreaded """woobifying""" of the villain have been shown to be canon. Like wonderful little dominoes falling!
@ZioRen

It sure does feel like that, doesn't it.  I can't begin to say how good it feels to be validated after these long two years.  I always knew deep down it would happen, but to know now first hand that LF is telling the story they want to tell, and is ADAMANT they won't have any outside interference makes me soar to the high heavens.  

It's so satisfying.
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