The Last Jedi General Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

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Post by Acritiqua on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:51 am

My impression was the audience is supposed to like Poe at the end and write Kylo off.

Regarding Poe he's supposed to be the awesome hero that we're supposed to like and think is so incredible. I also wondered if Holdo's line about Poe being dangerous was supposed to let us know if we want a bad boy, look Poe is kind of a bad boy. Oh but he is also a hero. And we are supposed to like heroes.

Poe's piloting in the beginning was supposed to be super awesome and cool too. I personally found him obnoxious.
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:59 am

@Saracene wrote:@ZioRen
@ZioRen wrote:3. Regarding Poe. I actually appreciated the turn they took with his character, but ONLY if J.J. follows through with it in IX. See, I'm once again questioning whether we're supposed to find Poe questionable at the end. There are some hints, like his change in Holdo's line to make it more about destruction than rebuilding and his lack of care about those who were killed partially because of him. And they didn't give him that ending of ruminating on his actions and humility. But that doesn't necessarily telegraph that he'll be morally grey in IX. They could have just not bothered having him show more humility because they assumed the audience already forgave him because they like him and he's charming. The other elements mentioned could once again be "oh, that loveable hothead" things rather than hints at a more complex Poe who might make questionable decisions in IX.
@ZioRen

I don't think we're supposed to find Poe questionable at the end. He did look sheepish once Leia explained Holdo's plan to him, so I guess the filmmakers decided that it was enough and there was no necessity for further remorse from Poe. The ending, with Poe echoing Holdo's earlier remark about the spark, and Leia encouraging the rest to follow him in the cave, seems to indicate pretty firmly that his transformation from the hothead into a more responsible leader is now complete.

As for Luke in the end... well Kylo was going to destroy what was left of the Resistance. It's fair enough that Luke would use everything within his means to stall him. I can't really say I felt that the movie was making Kylo be in the right, when his "kill the past" obviously includes "kill your flawed but loving father you didn't actually hate". Killing Han affected him, yes, but he's still to admit any wrongdoing.
@Saracene

My issue isn't in what ammo Luke chose to use against Kylo. I agree that he was pulling out the best weapon he had to stall the death of the Resistance. My issue was in the tone in which this kind of disturbing within context method Luke used was presented. What he did didn't feel triumphant to me, it felt like a messy and incredibly sad solution to a problem at hand. But that's not how it was portrayed in my eyes even when looking further beneath the surface.
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:11 am

@Acritiqua wrote:My impression was the audience is supposed to like Poe at the end and write Kylo off.
@Acritiqua

yes, at first glance...but when you take time thinking the story though you will come to exactly the opposite.

After my first viewing I was furious at Kylo wanted to kill him off myself! And yes I liked Poe or at least I didn't hate him.

But after having time thinking and contemplating everything that happened I started to realize how Poe's decisions and attitude costed much more lives on both sides than Kylo's anger-tantrum at the end.

If you cut out the last 10-15 min. of the movie, Kylo didn't do anything wrong- and he killed Snoke! How many people got killed on Crait? We don't know, but since there wasn't many of the Resistance left anyway it couldn't have been many. Yes, what he did was wrong and he was an a** and deserved Rey's shutting the door in his face- but his patricide in TFA was much worse.
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Post by Acritiqua on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:18 am

First glance to me is I don't like Poe but the movie is telling me I should. I really didn't like that being imposed by the movie. I think Poe is an obnoxious *******. With Kylo, what is worse is he vows to destroy Rey. In TFA he didn't want to kill her. Also his offer to join him was insensitive to her feelings. It hurts Rey to watch the Resistance being destroyed and it's like he doesn't care. The movie didn't have to bring him to the place of wanting to kill her, but it went there.

Also the movie tries to show again and again that the Resistance is good and it's about hope. It shows the FO as evil in comparison. It's morally black and white.

The other recent-ish LFL works, Star Wars Rebels and The Clone Wars are morally black and white as well.
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:28 am

Any effect of Kylo's "vow to destroy Rey" was shot to itty bitty pieces when his last scene was him on his knees and looking up at her with sad, dewy eyes. Tantrum mode Kylo can't be taken at face value. The irony is in that you know he'll never destroy her and never want to.
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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:51 am

It's strange about Poe, I could take or leave him in TFA. But in TLJ his character really irritated me, was I meant to be irritated, then pleased when he supposedly learnt his lesson? I just continued to be irritated. Other than my teenage daughter who likes Poe, and the obvious Poe fan clubs, the reviews I'm reading overall about Poe in this film is that he comes across as a really in your face person, I don't know whether it would have been better to tone down his performance, but then you wouldn't have had the dynamics with Holdo. ( Which on a side note, the pair seemed to ouze sexual chemistry to me.)
I came out that movie waving the flag for Kylo, I'd not done so in TFA, this was all because of the way the viewer sees himl through Rey, it helped gme to emphasize with Kylo's character, I could cry for him. Even with his temper tantrum, to me it just showed how deeply hurt he was, and was reacting in his time honored way of just losing the plot. He reminded of a toddler that has a tantrum perhaps due to frustration in a supermarket say, it's been said best way to deal with it, is to let them just get on with it, let them throw themselves on the floor, let them tire themselves out. Then cuddle them, after to let them know that everything is ok. Kylo certainly looked liked he'd wore himself out at the end, and desperately needed a reassuring cuddle, when Rey closed the door on him.
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:59 am

@Let The Past Die wrote:He reminded of a toddler that has a tantrum perhaps due to frustration in a supermarket say, it's been said best way to deal with it, is to let them just get on with it, let them throw themselves on the floor, let them tire themselves out. Then cuddle them, after to let them know that everything is ok. Kylo certainly looked liked he'd wore himself out at the end, and desperately needed a reassuring cuddle, when Rey closed the door on him.
@Let The Past Die

Haha, that was the best comparison ever! lol! lol! lol!

Welcome by the way... Waves
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Post by Armadeus on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:05 am

I actually like Poe more after TLJ. I like the fact that he was a complete a**hole and that just about every decision he made was wrong. He's young and has a lot of growing up to do. We learn from our failures, not from our successes. I think the reason everyone rallies around him in the end is because, well... there's nobody left apart from Leia. The Resistance is going to have to do the best it can with all it has left.

I like the fact that there was some conflict within the Resistance. A nice change from TFA in which everyone got along swimmingly and reveled in just how awesome and kicka** they all were.

In TFA, Poe was too much of a boy scout for my liking. And don't get me started on the Poe Dameron comics. I'm in danger of falling into a diabetic coma every time I read one.
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Post by SkyStar on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:19 am

@Armadeus wrote:I actually like Poe more after TLJ. I like the fact that he was a complete a**hole and that just about every decision he made was wrong. He's young and has a lot of growing up to do. We learn from our failures, not from our successes. I think the reason everyone rallies around him in the end is because, well... there's nobody left apart from Leia. The Resistance is going to have to do the best it can with all it has left.

I like the fact that there was some conflict within the Resistance. A nice change from TFA in which everyone got along swimmingly and reveled in just how awesome and kicka** they all were.

In TFA, Poe was too much of a boy scout for my liking. And don't get me started on the Poe Dameron comics. I'm in danger of falling into a diabetic coma every time I read one.
@Armadeus

Me too. At my first watch I was angry, but at second I appreciated his ark much more. It really showed he needs some growing to do and learn not to act so rushed all the time. I would make a comparison that he needed to learn some diplomacy instead kicking people in the face, lol.  

If I would change something, then I wouldn't make Leia's and Holdo interaction so giggly about him. But then again there were a lot of moments where movie showed how they don't approve of his hotheadedness (ok, Leia even shot him). Maybe because that conversation between them was more closer to the end it created this strange feeling of "what is happening".
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:51 am

About Luke using the nastiest ammo he could against Kylo, I get it. Luke obviously had a plan and he was almost one with the Force by that point. He knew that confrontation would not be his last with is nephew and that the future would be flexible as long as he stopped him and saved what was left of the Resistance. While he certainly didn't transport himself across space to save Kylo in that moment, he did save Ben by giving him another chance. No Rebellion would mean no chance for Ben, no chance for the Jedi, no chance for his sister and no chance for his galaxy period, so he went out of his way to get Kylo's attention.

As for the audience being intended to write off Kylo at the end... um, hell no? I'm sorry but you don't give a character a rather tragic backstory, have them experience an emotional meltdown and then stare up at the person they disappointed most with utter shame when the audience is not meant to care about the future of that character. Rian is very sympathetic toward Kylo and seems to have great respect for the character. It's honestly a little WTF for me to read that people think we were supposed to write him off at the end when the whole point of VIII was to humanize him and "tear him open". You know, get the audience invested in a way they weren't after VII.

And re: PlotGate. I'm with @MyOnlyHope on that one. PlotGate is real. There is no "longterm plan", but we underestimated was how closely VIII was written to follow VII and how much Rian knew about JJ and Kasdan's intentions. So while Plotgate may be real, the stories are still written to follow each other down to minute details.

Say what you will about yesterday's clusterf***, but I thought it was totally awesome to learn that the energy that exists between Rey and Kylo as characters was being called "romantic/sexual" by Larry Kasdan as early as the scriptwriting of VII in 2013-2014, definitely around the time JJ made that statement about wanting to include a different kind of romance in the ST. This is the first time we've ever heard of Kasdan's involvement in the Rey and Kylo process.


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Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:51 am

@Acritiqua wrote:My impression was the audience is supposed to like Poe at the end and write Kylo off.

Regarding Poe he's supposed to be the awesome hero that we're supposed to like and think is so incredible. I also wondered if Holdo's line about Poe being dangerous was supposed to let us know if we want a bad boy, look Poe is kind of a bad boy. Oh but he is also a hero. And we are supposed to like heroes.

Poe's piloting in the beginning was supposed to be super awesome and cool too. I personally found him obnoxious.
@Acritiqua

TBH I would have too if I hadn't liked Oscar Isaac as a person so much... if (heaven forbid) someone puts him across as a candidate for romance with Rey let's hope he serves, as others have pointed out, as a Gaston type in the BatB that is Reylo. I also really want them to address Rey's impulsiveness....because have this image of her losing her temper and Force choking someone in front of her Resistance friends. Let's face it, no one except Chewie knows Rey went voluntarily to the Supremacy to try to convert Kylo -just how will Poe and co. react to that?
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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 7:32 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Let The Past Die wrote:He reminded of a toddler that has a tantrum perhaps due to frustration in a supermarket say, it's been said best way to deal with it, is to let them just get on with it, let them throw themselves on the floor, let them tire themselves out. Then cuddle them, after to let them know that everything is ok. Kylo certainly looked liked he'd wore himself out at the end, and desperately needed a reassuring cuddle, when Rey closed the door on him.
@Let The Past Die

Haha, that was the best comparison ever! lol! lol! lol!

Welcome by the way... Waves
@Night Huntress
Hi, and thank you for the welcome Thumbs up

Regarding Poe, I wish I knew what it was about the character that irritates me I just can't put my finger on it, as normally that's the sort of character I like, I'd say he was a Han Solo type, and I was a Han Solo girl rather than a Luke girl way back in the days of the original. As I say my middle daughter likes him, but my 11 year daughter is with her mum in liking Kylo.  Jumping
Interestingly I've read, that Reylo or Kylo fans only like him, or the pairing is because they asthetically like Adam Driver, now that may be the case for some and I'm not knocking it I like a handsome face with the best of them, but it wasn't like that for me, infact when he took his helmet off in the interrogation scene, I'm like...errr Nope not for me ( I've since decided it was his shampoo commercial hair and roll neck top that detracted me Laughing ) but after his performance in TLJ to make me have empathy for a character that killed my 9 year old selfs  first ever crush of Han Solo from back in the original days,  I thought I'd never forgive him.
I have forgiven him, and not only that I've become an Adam Driver fan, the emotion get puts in his face and eyes...now I appreciate his looks, but only because for me the performance came first. Prefer his hair messy by the way....lol

If I can forgive him, in part through seeing him through Rey's eyes, then that's where the direction is headed surely in the film? For ulimate redemption, or why bother with that particular arc. Without wanting to be stereotypical, but apparently I'm going to be, why is it, that the majority females relate to Kylo's redemption, rather than  traditional fanboy base. ( I know there are exceptions to the rule on both sides) These are the ones implying we only see redemption because of a pretty face...what? I'm just curious as to why that seems to be the case. I could be wrong in my observations though.
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 8:12 am

@Let The Past Die wrote:
@Night Huntress
Regarding Poe, I wish I knew what it was about the character that irritates me I just can't put my finger on it, as normally that's the sort of character I like, I'd say he was a Han Solo type, and I was a Han Solo girl rather than a Luke girl way back in the days of the original. As I say my middle daughter likes him, but my 11 year daughter is with her mum in liking Kylo.  Jumping

Haha, me too! Han was and IS my absolute favorite from the OT characters.
to the bolded: now, you as mom of an 11 year old girl- aren't you afraid if Rey & Kylo end up together in the end it will send her a bad message?

This question sounds weird for me even typing it- but some are concerned Disney won't let that happen because "that would be a bad message for young girls- they shouldn't want to be or root for a bad guy like Kylo blah blah"

What do you think? I have no children so for me it's hard to understand that kind of thinking. I can only rely how I was myself as a child and for me that never was an issue. Nope

@Let The Past Die wrote:
Interestingly I've read, that Reylo or Kylo fans only like him, or the pairing is because they asthetically like Adam Driver, now that may be the case for some and I'm not knocking it I like a handsome face with the best of them, but it wasn't like that for me, infact when he took his helmet off in the interrogation scene, I'm like...errr Nope not for me ( I've since decided it was his shampoo commercial hair and roll neck top that detracted me Laughing ) but after his performance in TLJ to make me have empathy for a character that killed my 9 year old selfs  first ever crush of Han Solo from back in the original days,  I thought I'd never forgive him.
I have forgiven him, and not only that I've become an Adam Driver fan, the emotion get puts in his face and eyes...now I appreciate his looks, but only because for me the performance came first. Prefer his hair messy by the way....lol

I thought Adam weird looking at first (I won't say ugly because that's a nasty word and not true, but I didn't found him attractive when first seeing TFA). And I still think that he isn't the typical pretty faced poster-boy teenage girls and women fangirling over. But something about him is very appealing. I prefer his looks in TLJ, too... he looks more natural and less groomed, styled, artificial.

@Let The Past Die wrote:
If I can forgive him, in part through seeing him through Rey's eyes, then that's where the direction is headed surely in the film? For ulimate redemption, or why bother with that particular arc. Without wanting to be stereotypical, but apparently I'm going to be, why is it, that the majority females relate to Kylo's redemption, rather than  traditional fanboy base. ( I know there are exceptions to the rule on both sides) These are the ones implying we only see redemption because of a pretty face...what? I'm just curious as to why that seems to be the case. I could be wrong in my observations though.
@Let The Past Die

yes, exactly. What would be the point of the whole trilogy. We don't know how and if he will live after being redeemed but I'm sure he will.
And he could look like Quasimodo right now- I would still root for him.[/quote]
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:47 am

About Luke and Ben at the end... I HATED Luke after my first viewing of TLJ. I thought he didn’t do enough. I thought the talk between he and Leia made things seem hopeless for Ben and they’d just given up. But after seeing it several times, I get what he did, and I appreciate the Force projection thing because it kept Ben from actually killing Luke (Kylo kills Luke = audience wants him to die even more). The people I’ve talked to in person are sympathetic to Kylo after TLJ, and if that’s the general consensus then the film did it’s job. It sucks that Luke had to #trigger Ben’s memories of the temple fire, but I think it was more about separating actual Luke who we saw on Ahch-To and the vision of him on Crait. The strained smile we get from Luke right after he says, “Just like your father,” tears me up. Luke’s confronting Kylo not just for killing his students and his atrocities with the FO, but for killing his once best friend. All of the Skywalkers have committed misdeeds. I’m sympathetic to Ben over everyone else because he’s a victim of parental neglect, Snoke, the dark side, and his uncle’s terrible misjudgment (and said uncle shirked responsibilities after ruining his nephew and just hid himself away, which I can’t forgive), BUT in the end I appreciate the confrontation for what it is, and I really like the portrayal of Luke given the f***ed up relationship he has with his nephew.

About kids and Kylo... Mine get that he has the potential for good and are rooting for him. They don’t hate him and think he’s straight up evil. I don’t get the impression that many kids out there will rage if he turns from the dark side. It’s only the crazy adults who want him to become truly evil and then die (probably for killing Han).


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Post by IoJovi on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:About Luke and Ben at the end... I HATED Luke after my first viewing of TLJ. I thought he didn’t do enough. I thought the talk between he and Leia made things seem hopeless for Ben and they’d just given up. But after seeing it several times, I get what he did, and I appreciate the Force projection thing because it kept Ben from actually killing Luke (Kylo kills Luke = audience wants him to die even more). The people I’ve talked to in person are sympathetic to Kylo after TLJ, and if that’s the general consensus then the film did it’s job. It sucks that Luke had to #trigger Ben’s memories of the temple fire, but I think it was more about separating actual Luke who we saw on Ahch-To and the vision of him on Crait. The strained smile we get from Luke right after he says, “Just like your father,” tears me up. Luke’s confronting Kylo not just for killing his students and his atrocities with the FO, but for killing his once best friend. All of the Skywalkers have committed misdeeds. I’m sympathetic to Ben over everyone else because he’s a victim of parental neglect, Snoke, the dark side, and his uncle’s terrible misjudgment (and said uncle shirked responsibilities after ruining his nephew and just hid himself away, which I can’t forgive), BUT in the end I appreciate the confrontation for what it is, and I really like the portrayal of Luke given the fucked up relationship he has with his nephew.

About kids and Kylo... Mine get that he has the potential for good and are rooting for him. They don’t hate him and think he’s straight up evil. I don’t get the impression that many kids out there will rage if he turns from the dark side. It’s only the crazy adults who want him to become truly evil and then die (probably for killing Han).
@Cowgirlsamurai

One part in that exchange that makes me sob like a baby is when he tells Leia “I can’t save him.”  Rey’s name or hint of anyone else is clearly omitted from that exchange for a reason.  He could have said “He can’t be saved, or “No one can save him now”, but no - the one is very specific.  So cut to me turning on the water works every time.  

It’s very much implied here that Rey will definitely be Ben’s savior.


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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:00 am

@Night Huntress
As a mother to 2 daughters age 15 and 11, plus a 20 year old son. I hope I've taught them what's acceptable behavior, they thankfully have a good role model with their dad. But I know they see the film  for what it is, a fictional fairy tale, redemption is in sight, actually if redemption doesn't happen that to me sends the wrong message. Kylo Ren is not inherently evil, he doesn't kill to get a twisted pleasure. To me he commits crime in the name of war, infact with the abuse he's suffered I'd go far to say he has been manipulated, plus in this fairy tale we have the role of the dark force.
Watching some interviews with Adam, he has made mention that he doesn't view Kylo as Evil, more that it's a point of view Kylo sees things from.

I had a conversation with my girls and their friends ( bearing in mind, one of those said friends is the product of an abusive gaslighting relationship) if they thought that in any way shape or form that Kylo was abusive, or negging in nature...they looked at me gone out, and couldn't see what I was on about. To them he's just a bad boy from the other side of the tracks.

Points to highlight that we all know, but the girls made reference to, he makes a point of struggling because he's being pulled to the light, when the tragic scene with Han happens, he tells us it's tearing him apart. These are the points the audience sees, children see, then in TLJ, snoke reference s his weakness, Rey tells us and him she knows his being torn apart, she makes mention of his conflict. She softens towards him even before the touching of hands. A film is shot in such a way, that every scene we see is telling us the audience something, no shot is wasted. Star Wars is for 12 year old kids, that had not changed, if I was that 9 year old girl again, any of the main 3, Kylo, Finn or even Poe, I could have fan girled over. The older me likes bad boys, Han was the bad boy in his film Very Happy

I'd be more worried if they liked Hux, not the actor ( he's lovely) but the character as even though he is mocked, there is an underlying quiet evil to him.

I do feel sad, that there are ones that feel uncomfortable with the character Kylo, I hope they can eventually see redemption for Kylo, and see it's not real life but a fantasy fairytale, with over the top bad guys and sometimes cheesy good guys.
So ultimately I'm not worried, if anything, I may have to temper my girls from shooting first then  ask questions later, from the influence from Rey Laughing


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Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:06 am

@Cowgirlsamurai
About kids and Kylo... Mine get that he has the potential for good and are rooting for him. They don’t hate him and think he’s straight up evil.

And your kids are really young and have better comprehension & analytical skills than many of the adults seeing the movie. Claps
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:38 am

I think children actually often see things clearer than adults like us....their minds aren't disturbed from too much influences and experiences.
They don't project real life problems and issues into a movie that's made in the first place to entertain us... not to spread messages or promote role models.

Like "Let The Past Die" wrote in her post. The parents of the little girls and people around them in real life should be their role models- not fictional characters in a fantasy movie.

I remember my parents explaining to me "you see, that's just a movie- a story that wouldn't work like that in real life" children aren't stupid, they understand the difference. That's why I have to roll my eyes when antis came with the argument "but what message would that send to little girls"??? Rolling Eyes
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Post by Irina de France on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:54 am

On my second viewing, I brought my little sisters with me. The oldest kind of teared up when she saw Rose crying, because she guessed right away that Paige was her sister and that she had died earlier. Thing is, my sisters are Chinese (my parents adopted them when they were very little), and the oldest kind of looks like Paige and the youngest looks a lot like Rose. So yeah, it felt very real for her, lol (and it's kind of similar to me tearing up when I see one of the King's daughters die in Anna and the King, because it's like watching one of my sisters dying for me Sad ).

When I asked them afterwards who their favorite character was, the youngest (she's 10) immediately said Rose. The oldest (16) said Ben. Not Kylo, Ben. The youngest piped in and said "Oh, I liked Ben too! And Rey." I asked them why they liked Ben. The oldest said that Adam Driver did a very good job portraying him, and the youngest said: "Because he's sad. He needs some time off, but he's also really sad. Rey gave him some time off, but I hope she gives him a hug in the next movie, too."

They were also really happy when Ben killed Snoke. The youngest said: "He's not mean, because he saved Rey. But he was really naughty after that." The oldest said she thought Snoke was gross. Not scary, just gross.

So basically, people are really underestimating how smart kids are. And as said above, I would be definitely worried if they liked Hux. I mean, they laughed every time he got smacked on the ground or when Poe was messing around with him. So no worries on that side, lol.
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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:56 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
They don't project real life problems and issues into a movie that's made in the first place to entertain us... not to spread messages or promote role models.

Like "Let The Past Die" wrote in her post. The parents of the little girls and people around them in real life should be their role models- not fictional characters in a fantasy movie.

I remember my parents explaining to me "you see, that's just a movie- a story that wouldn't work like that in real life" children aren't stupid, they understand the difference. That's why I have to roll my eyes when antis came with the argument "but what message would that send to little girls"??? Rolling Eyes
@Night Huntress

Well using that argument for logic about the message it sends, then what about cartoons and animations, that show characters falling off cliffs and walking away, getting bashed over the head, Tom and Jerry style. Then their logic would say children are getting the message to rush out and try bashing things or jumping off cliffs.

And bringing that arguement to live action, then children know the likes of figures survive in films like Jumanji survive because it's fantasy not real life. Children are not daft.

Thinking about it, most films etc, either have good or bad, it's refreshing to have this so called grey area, children are seeing the inner struggle Kylo has, they are given hope of redemption in it's simplest form... Disney better deliver now.
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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:01 pm

@Irina de France wrote:On my second viewing, I brought my little sisters with me. The oldest kind of teared up when she saw Rose crying, because she guessed right away that Paige was her sister and that she had died earlier. Thing is, my sisters are Chinese (my parents adopted them when they were very little), and the oldest kind of looks like Paige and the youngest looks a lot like Rose. So yeah, it felt very real for her, lol (and it's kind of similar to me tearing up when I see one of the King's daughters die in Anna and the King, because it's like watching one of my sisters dying for me Sad ).

When I asked them afterwards who their favorite character was, the youngest (she's 10) immediately said Rose. The oldest (16) said Ben. Not Kylo, Ben. The youngest piped in and said "Oh, I liked Ben too! And Rey." I asked them why they liked Ben. The oldest said that Adam Driver did a very good job portraying him, and the youngest said: "Because he's sad. He needs some time off, but he's also really sad. Rey gave him some time off, but I hope she gives him a hug in the next movie, too."

They were also really happy when Ben killed Snoke. The youngest said: "He's not mean, because he saved Rey. But he was really naughty after that." The oldest said she thought Snoke was gross. Not scary, just gross.

So basically, people are really underestimating how smart kids are. And as said above, I would be definitely worried if they liked Hux. I mean, they laughed every time he got smacked on the ground or when Poe was messing around with him. So no worries on that side, lol.
@Irina de France

That is so sweet.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:18 pm

@SheLitAFire @Night Huntress

Yes! I think that kids see things in much simpler terms and of course don’t over analyze the way we do. (“If I empathize with Kylo Ren am I a Nazi?” LOL) As for what kids learn from SW... that’s up to the parents to handle. I knew that showing my four year old SW last year was a bit early, but we’ve talked about it a lot, and it’s taught me just how sensitive and smart he is. He still plays, “Pew, pew, pew!” along with his friends, but we’ve had some pretty deep convos too. Even my three year old (was two when we watched TFA) seems to interpret Kylo as a “sad” character rather than a “mean” one.
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Post by Acritiqua on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:30 pm

I empathize with Kylo, I just am not sure that LFL in general has the same kind of morality that is prevalent on this board. This also happened with Reywalker. Some assumed that LFL thought about the Skywalker lineage in the way they did, and it turned out not to be the case. They didn't see it as absolutely important that Rey be a Skywalker. They didn't hold that lineage as just so much more special than others in GFFA.
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Post by IoJovi on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:41 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:I empathize with Kylo, I just am not sure that LFL in general has the same kind of morality that is prevalent on this board. This also happened with Reywalker. Some assumed that LFL thought about the Skywalker lineage in the way they did, and it turned out not to be the case. They didn't see it as absolutely important that Rey be a Skywalker. They didn't hold that lineage as just so much more special than others in GFFA.
@Acritiqua

I doubt that very much.  The entire reason Reywalker was flipped on its head was for Reylo.  The fact that the Reywalker misdirection was as big as it was exactly so that it could be turned on its ear to make room for Reylo.  If anything, the reywalker misdirection that was so prevalent for two years, with comments from Mark and KK saying SW has always been about family give me full confidence we'll get happy ending Reylo.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:55 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:I empathize with Kylo, I just am not sure that LFL in general has the same kind of morality that is prevalent on this board. This also happened with Reywalker. Some assumed that LFL thought about the Skywalker lineage in the way they did, and it turned out not to be the case. They didn't see it as absolutely important that Rey be a Skywalker. They didn't hold that lineage as just so much more special than others in GFFA.
@Acritiqua

I doubt that very much.  The entire reason Reywalker was flipped on its head was for Reylo.  The fact that the Reywalker misdirection was as big as it was exactly so that it could be turned on its ear to make room for Reylo.  If anything, the reywalker misdirection that was so prevalent for two years, with comments from Mark and KK saying SW has always been about family give me full confidence we'll get happy ending Reylo.
@IoJovi

Mark and Kathy Kennedy have said it time and time and time again that this saga is about the Skywalker family. Whether Rey and Kylo end up together with a happy ending idk but this story is based around the Skywalker family.
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