The Last Jedi General Discussion (Spoilers Allowed)

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Post by IoJovi on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 1:09 pm

@whisperingwillow wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:I empathize with Kylo, I just am not sure that LFL in general has the same kind of morality that is prevalent on this board. This also happened with Reywalker. Some assumed that LFL thought about the Skywalker lineage in the way they did, and it turned out not to be the case. They didn't see it as absolutely important that Rey be a Skywalker. They didn't hold that lineage as just so much more special than others in GFFA.
@Acritiqua

I doubt that very much.  The entire reason Reywalker was flipped on its head was for Reylo.  The fact that the Reywalker misdirection was as big as it was exactly so that it could be turned on its ear to make room for Reylo.  If anything, the reywalker misdirection that was so prevalent for two years, with comments from Mark and KK saying SW has always been about family give me full confidence we'll get happy ending Reylo.
@IoJovi

Mark and Kathy Kennedy have said it time and time and time again that this saga is about the Skywalker family. Whether Rey and Kylo end up together with a happy ending idk but this story is based around the Skywalker family.
@whisperingwillow

Well, if they really are hammering home the fact this trilogy is about family, with Rey's trajectory of wondering exactly how she fits into all of this, there's only one option if she's not related.  Family members share blood sure, but a happy romantic end for Rey and Ben is the only way the Skywalker family can continue.  There are no other alternatives at this point.
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Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 1:19 pm

Let's be real. The fanboy crowd chanting "Rey must be a Skywalker because this is the Skywalker saga" just didn't want to accept that the only Skywalker progeny in the ST might actually be the "he shouldn't have taken his mask off," "he got beat by a girl," cryface villain. He wasn't good enough. He "didn't count." Rey not being a Skywalker has nothing to do with how Lucasfilm plans to develop the Skywalker family and everything to do with the Skywalker quota already being filled by the one character who literally carries all the stakes in the story. There was a huge amount of resistance way back when to Kylo even being considered an important character. In fanboy corners, he was completely dismissed as a whiny, one-note villain who would probably be killed off and replaced by someone scarier. And to those fans losing the failure Skywalker didn't matter because "our angel Rey Skywalker is going to fix everything." There were even arguments at the time over if Leia and Kylo could be considered Skywalkers at all. "He's a Solo" they said. Lmfao good times.

If episode VIII solidified anything, it's how important Kylo really is in the grand scheme of things. He's the lost legacy of two trilogies and six films, literally the only remaining character who can right his own wrongs as well the wrongs of the past and his family (the prodigal son to a T). While Rey is very much the heroine, our eyes into this disfunctional family, Kylo is the focus, the character around with everything revolves.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 1:27 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@whisperingwillow wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:I empathize with Kylo, I just am not sure that LFL in general has the same kind of morality that is prevalent on this board. This also happened with Reywalker. Some assumed that LFL thought about the Skywalker lineage in the way they did, and it turned out not to be the case. They didn't see it as absolutely important that Rey be a Skywalker. They didn't hold that lineage as just so much more special than others in GFFA.
@Acritiqua

I doubt that very much.  The entire reason Reywalker was flipped on its head was for Reylo.  The fact that the Reywalker misdirection was as big as it was exactly so that it could be turned on its ear to make room for Reylo.  If anything, the reywalker misdirection that was so prevalent for two years, with comments from Mark and KK saying SW has always been about family give me full confidence we'll get happy ending Reylo.
@IoJovi

Mark and Kathy Kennedy have said it time and time and time again that this saga is about the Skywalker family. Whether Rey and Kylo end up together with a happy ending idk but this story is based around the Skywalker family.
@whisperingwillow

Well, if they really are hammering home the fact this trilogy is about family, with Rey's trajectory of wondering exactly how she fits into all of this, there's only one option if she's not related.  Family members share blood sure, but a happy romantic end for Rey and Ben is the only way the Skywalker family can continue.  There are no other alternatives at this point.
@IoJovi

I mean it could be bittersweet where he either dies saving Rey or he is cast away from society for what he has done (both of those would suck imo) but it doesn't give a happy closure to this family. However, I believe Star Wars to be far more hopeful than that so I would hope it will end up with a happy ending for Ben and Rey.
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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 2:01 pm

Just thought I would start a thread on those little observations we might have or questions regarding TLJ, that don't seem to fit elsewhere.

For example an observation I had was when Rey was brought into the throne room before Snoke, and during one of his speeches, he talks about the dark, and I think he raises his right hand, then he says about the light rising, and he raises his left hand, as if he were balancing scales, then he clasps his hand together as he says something along the lines of light coming to meet (it) the dark.

Now does anyone know the exact phrasing, and did he actually clasp and join his hands together? I'm not sure whether I'm making the hands together up, or is my memory playing tricks.

Because if Snoke did, then I'm calling it that Snoke foreshadowed Rey and Ben joining together.... Lol Laughing
Of course, I could just have remembered it wrong Embarassed


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Post by Let The Past Die on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 2:33 pm

Answering my own question, just watched a music video, it shows the scene, but stops before what I think is a clasp of his hands.
Snoke says "Darkness rises and light to meet it"
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Post by lauvamp on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:08 pm

After watching the video again, just wondering....why this "mystery" when (some) people talk about their connection in TLJ? I mean, why is that difficult to say "yes, it looks kinda romantic to me" or something like that? Were Rian and Mark the only ones clear about this topic? I swear I've never seen something like that about a movie before.

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Post by Birdwoman on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:19 pm

I am not sure why they don't just openly talk about it. I am wondering if they just don't want to get a bunch of hate emails from fans not happy with this development.

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Post by lauvamp on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:26 pm

@Birdwoman

That's the point, for example her reaction was like "I'm not allowed to talk about any sentimental / sexual nature of this, but I insinuate it" scratch
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:35 pm

@lauvamp wrote:After watching the video again, just wondering....why this "mystery" when (some) people talk about their connection in TLJ? I mean, why is that difficult to say "yes, it looks kinda romantic to me" or something like that? Were Rian and Mark the only ones clear about this topic? I swear I've never seen something like that about a movie before.

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@lauvamp

That's my biggest problem. It is still censored. I don't like when LF fanboys talk about reylo. Pablo should stick to pew pew stuff
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Post by lauvamp on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:40 pm

@Maria Antonietta

I feel the same, I don't get it...I thought after the movie it would be "less tabu".
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:44 pm

@lauvamp wrote:@Maria Antonietta

I feel the same, I don't get it...I thought after the movie it would be "less tabu".
@lauvamp

I'm not surprised - it worked for the last two years...so, never change a running system? Rolling Eyes

It's tiring...
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:46 pm

@lauvamp wrote:@Maria Antonietta

I feel the same, I don't get it...I thought after the movie it would be "less tabu".
@lauvamp

Yep, we're going to wait for another two years and maybe they'll talk
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:48 pm

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@lauvamp wrote:@Maria Antonietta

I feel the same, I don't get it...I thought after the movie it would be "less tabu".
@lauvamp

Yep, we're going to wait for another two years and maybe they'll talk
@Maria Antonietta

...I'm not sure I want them to. Eh bien
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Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:49 pm

@lauvamp wrote:After watching the video again, just wondering....why this "mystery" when (some) people talk about their connection in TLJ? I mean, why is that difficult to say "yes, it looks kinda romantic to me" or something like that? Were Rian and Mark the only ones clear about this topic? I swear I've never seen something like that before about a movie.

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@lauvamp
Bear in mind that these people can't really extensively discuss anything that might have a baring on future films. The storygroup is probably more aware of that than anybody else. Pablo's talked before about how he and LF prefer to just let stories speak for themselves. It's really a good thing that the mystery between Rey and Kylo is being alluded to but still preserved because it points toward the fact that their connection and unresolved conflict still has a huge baring on the rest of the story. Like Rayne clearly wants to go there and talk about the sort of energy or tension between the two characters, and of course we all know what kind of energy she's referring to (and that Kasdan and J.J. were defining the relationship in "that" way years ago), but end of the day the connection between them is still bound to play a huge part in future storytelling. Better to just let that future storytelling speak for itself. Besides, I appreciate that we as an audience are trusted to make sense of nuance and ambiguity and interpret aspects of the characters and story for ourselves, even if we know not everybody is deserving of that trust lol. We as a group don't need everything spelled out for us at the very least. Laughing
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Post by lauvamp on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:57 pm

@MyOnlyHope

I get your point. I guess I'm tired of the "general" ambiguity because it doesn't help us (Reylos) and some (fanboy) brains to open their minds lol but we do know what is the real nature of all of that Smile
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:09 pm

@Maria Antonietta wrote:
@lauvamp wrote:After watching the video again, just wondering....why this "mystery" when (some) people talk about their connection in TLJ? I mean, why is that difficult to say "yes, it looks kinda romantic to me" or something like that? Were Rian and Mark the only ones clear about this topic? I swear I've never seen something like that about a movie before.

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@lauvamp

That's my biggest problem. It is still censored. I don't like when LF fanboys talk about reylo. Pablo should stick to pew pew stuff
@Maria Antonietta

Hear hear! It's flippin irritating! So, I've decided to just skim over the interviews and not give a toss what DR, fanboys or anyone else says or doesn't say. I saw what was in TFA and TLJ. The story is only 2/3's of the way unfolded, and it seems all involved are not going to be straight up about what has been, much less what will be.
To be honest, this is exactly what I expect to see for the next two years... plus plenty of red herrings that could be painful for reylos if we don't keep up our deflector shields!! Wink
[they have not been given instructions by Yoda to pass on what they have learned haaa Wink ]
I've already jumped to light speed - and I'm at the final destination: a Ben/Rey happy ending..
I've now got to just wait for the film making to catch up... Smile
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Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:19 pm

@lauvamp wrote:@MyOnlyHope

I get your point. I guess I'm tired of the "general" ambiguity because it doesn't help us (Reylos) and some (fanboy) brains to open their minds lol but we do know what is the real nature of all of that Smile
@lauvamp
Oh well. Those moaners have already made up their minds. Nothing could open them up. They're really not worth the storygroup's time or our time. They spent two years denying Pablo and Matt's Reylated and Snoke/Plagueis salt and calling Reylos delusional. Look where they wound up.
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Post by IoJovi on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:28 pm

I’m not seeing how Reylo is being censored by TPTB. You have MH talking about the romantic tension between Rey and his naughty nephew, Adam Driver and Stephen Colbert playing let’s make out with Reylo action figures, Pablo making sexual innuendos in regards to the Force Bond scenes, comparisons to a married couple in The Godfather, Rian talking about Reylo openly in numerous interviews and tweets, and a whole bunch of other things I’m sure I’m missing. Just because one person is coy in a single situation (all while in that same instance Matt Martin is making jokes about Kylo waiting around shirtless all day for Rey to show up) doesn’t mean that’s the entire strategy.

Clearly it’s not.
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Post by Tex on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:56 pm

@IoJovi wrote:I’m not seeing how Reylo is being censored by TPTB.  You have MH talking about the romantic tension between Rey and his naughty nephew, Adam Driver and Stephen Colbert playing let’s make out with Reylo action figures, Pablo making sexual innuendos in regards to the Force Bond scenes, comparisons to a married couple in The Godfather, Rian talking about Reylo openly in numerous interviews and tweets, and a whole bunch of other things I’m sure I’m missing.  Just because one person is coy in a single situation (all while in that same instance Matt Martin is making jokes about Kylo waiting around shirtless all day for Rey to show up) doesn’t mean that’s the entire strategy.

Clearly it’s not.
@IoJovi

You can tell TPTB are really censoring it... Eh bien

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 5:59 pm

@Tex wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:I’m not seeing how Reylo is being censored by TPTB.  You have MH talking about the romantic tension between Rey and his naughty nephew, Adam Driver and Stephen Colbert playing let’s make out with Reylo action figures, Pablo making sexual innuendos in regards to the Force Bond scenes, comparisons to a married couple in The Godfather, Rian talking about Reylo openly in numerous interviews and tweets, and a whole bunch of other things I’m sure I’m missing.  Just because one person is coy in a single situation (all while in that same instance Matt Martin is making jokes about Kylo waiting around shirtless all day for Rey to show up) doesn’t mean that’s the entire strategy.

Clearly it’s not.
@IoJovi

You can tell TPTB are really censoring it... Eh bien

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@Tex

O.M.G! That is fantastic!!! Lol!!!!
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Post by IoJovi on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:00 pm

@Tex wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:I’m not seeing how Reylo is being censored by TPTB.  You have MH talking about the romantic tension between Rey and his naughty nephew, Adam Driver and Stephen Colbert playing let’s make out with Reylo action figures, Pablo making sexual innuendos in regards to the Force Bond scenes, comparisons to a married couple in The Godfather, Rian talking about Reylo openly in numerous interviews and tweets, and a whole bunch of other things I’m sure I’m missing.  Just because one person is coy in a single situation (all while in that same instance Matt Martin is making jokes about Kylo waiting around shirtless all day for Rey to show up) doesn’t mean that’s the entire strategy.

Clearly it’s not.
@IoJovi

You can tell TPTB are really censoring it... Eh bien

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@Tex

Oh come on! Surely they mean Rey and Kylo are going to build their own ship. Yeah, that’s gotta be it... Laughing

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Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:05 pm

Wow. The people running that account must be getting carried away with their sexual fascist fantasies. Bet they're filthy women. Disney do something.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:21 pm

@Tex

Literally laughed out loud. Is this real life??? Laughing Ohhh... the comments on that are gonna be Evil or Very Mad

Edit: this person went there Razz

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Post by Tex on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:25 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@Tex

Literally laughed out loud. Is this real life??? Laughing Ohhh... the comments on that are gonna be Evil or Very Mad
@Cowgirlsamurai

As real as they come my friend. Lolilol

Don't bother reading the comments. Finn/Poe shippers seem a little irked they didn't get a mention.
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Post by thescavenger on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:31 pm

@Let The Past Die wrote:Just thought I would start a thread on those little observations we might have or questions regarding TLJ, that don't seem to fit elsewhere.

For example an observation I had was when Rey was brought into the throne room before Snoke, and during one of his speeches, he talks about the dark, and I think he raises his right hand, then he says about the light rising, and he raises his left hand, as if he were balancing scales, then he clasps his hand together as he says something along the lines of light coming to meet (it) the dark.

Now does anyone know the exact phrasing, and did he actually clasp and join his hands together? I'm not sure whether I'm making the hands together up, or is my memory playing tricks.

Because if Snoke did, then I'm calling it that Snoke foreshadowed Rey and Ben joining together.... Lol Laughing
Of course, I could just have remembered it wrong Embarassed
@Let The Past Die

I remembered this scene. For once, I thought Snoke might have had a peek into their connection, and was making fun of how they hold hands.

Sorry, also, a lot of emphasis on hands this movie. It's like Rian has a thing for hands. Outside of Reylo's hand emphasis, also Luke pressing Rey's hands onto the meditating rock platform, Poe squeezing Leia's hand while she's in a coma, Holdo and Leia's hand holding goodbyes, Rey in the cave mirror doing hand gestures, Luke's robot hand coming out for the Temple rubble. I know these are all very common, but it seems like the camera really lingers on hands more than usual. Also goes back to Mark Hamill's tweet about 'it's all about the hands'.
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