Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:30 pm

@ZioRen wrote:If Rian wanted to portray Kylo as someone standing on his own feet and taking the reins as a more powerful villain by the very end of TLJ...I don't think he succeeded. The guy went on an unreasonable rampage and ended the movie on his knees looking broken.

When he took that stand against Snoke, it was a moment of strength, control, and discipline that we'd never seen from Kylo. THAT was when he was standing on his own two feet and taking the reins for the first time possibly ever. But then the entire thing got shot to pieces when Rey rejected him, and he progressively fell apart from there. I thought that was the point...?

If that wasn't Rian's intention, then I'm awfully confused at the direction of that final battle.
@ZioRen
This whole article is about Kylo killing Snoke so I'm going to assume he's talking about that.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:12 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:
@Kyla Ren wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:OK, so I had a little time thinking about Kylo/Ben in TLJ.

I have to see it at least a second time to really grasp everything- but overall I'm a bit torn...

I do feel compassion for him, because he was abandoned and betrayed by his family and targeted by a dark evil predator since his childhood.

On the other hand... does this really justify his action at the end of VIII? A lot of people have a bad childhood - it's not an excuse for becoming an murderer. And sadly that's what he did to Han and wanted to do with the few people left of the resistance. It had nothing to do with war - it felt for me like kicking someone that already is on the ground. That's why I'm not sure I would be fine with him being redeemed anymore.
I want a happy ending- badly, because I'm a romantic fool... but does he deserves it??? I'm really not sure anymore Cry

For me they overdid it... if he woke up in the throne room declared himself the new Supreme Leader but left the resistance alone- yes, that would have worked for me. He could have said something like "stop the attack, they're of no consequence or irrelevant" - the movie should have ended than- That fight on Crait was too much.

What do you think?
@Night Huntress

He let the Resistance go at the end, though...

After being humiliated by his uncle (who absolutely deserved being the target of Ben's anger) in front of his troops, he dropped to his knees and let the Resistance go, rather than shouting outside where the Falcon was and to pursue them or anything. That doesn't scream cold-blooded murderer to me.
@ISeeAnIsland

This is not especially aimed at ISeeAnIsland - if anyone can answer this please do..
I've only seen the movie once - Did Kylo let the resistance go at the end?
I'm thinking Kylo entered the stronghold to find they had evacuated... he looks down, picks up the dice..
He then looks up at Rey on the MF using the force bond. And she closes the door. The dice ended up being a projection or a part of the force bond - because the dice fades from his fingers and disappears... [did Luke give Leia the dice? I don't remember how the dice came to be there. anyone? I really need to see this movie again! Smile ]

Rey and the MF are off in the distance at the end of the caves they followed the wolves through. When the MF flew in and found them they were surrounded by mountains - it gave the impression they had travelled quite a distance.
Maybe I've misunderstood what I saw, but I'm thinking that the resistance escaped, rather than Kylo letting them get away.
Oh how I wish I had seen Kylo letting them get away!!!! but.. I am resigned that the big signs of his approaching redemption are in IX.

have I misunderstood the ending?
@DeeBee

My impression was that Kylo did not purposely let the Resistance go.  I think they escaped because Luke was able to stall Kylo and the First Order, thus giving the Resistance time to get away.  I think by the time Kylo actually entered the base, the Resistance people had already evacuated it.

I'm actually not sure about the dice.  Luke gave them to Leia, but I'm not sure if she dropped them or maybe she knew they were just a hologram projection and she couldn't take them with her so left them behind?  I'm really not sure.
@Kyla Ren

He knew they were with Rey, he knew they were on the Falcon. He could have ordered them to destroy the Falcon as soon as it left Crait. But he didn't, because Rey was on it.
@motherofpearl1

That was my take.  He was so overcome by his grief that he just let them go.

I never thought that he "let them escape" in the sense that the let them get to the Falcon, but at the end, he finds Rey, he knows where they are, and he's just a wreck on his knees.  He wasn't the same man there as he was when he was raging in his shuttle with the "destroy them all" attitude. And at the end, once he had come out of that rage, he didn't have anything left to go after them or send anyone after them as the Falcon escaped.

I mean, if Hux was the one who knew the location, is there any doubt that he would have sent ships after them to blow the Falcon out of the sky?

@ISeeAnIsland

Hi ISeeAnIsland, thanks for your reply and for clarifying your thoughts (re saying he let them escape).
Sounds good to me!
So while the resistance manage to escape, Kylo stopped pursuing them - this makes a lot of sense. Indeed, it speaks volumes.
You are right he is all raged out and spent.

As a reylo my heart breaks at this ending, but it is pretty awesome if I can just hang in there another two years Wink tee hee..
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:26 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig

Ahh, so he just added the cross guard? That’s cool! But how did it go from silver to black I wonder... I guess the metal just darkened with time and use.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:31 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@Xylo Ren

I noticed that Kylo’s theme was used as a general FO theme in this one. Like when the FO shockingly appears out of hyperspace because they’ve tracked the Resistance, his theme plays at a really fast tempo. I know Kylo’s with them at that point, but it’s Hux and his officers who are running the show. In TFA it was used in a more personal way, when Kylo himself was onscreen...
@Cowgirlsamurai

I took it as a foreshadowing much like Kylo talking about force projection that could've killed Rey.
@DarthRen

Foreshadowing that he’d become Supreme Leader? That’s interesting  Smile

Oops, sorry for double posting. Didn’t realize I was responding to something in the same thread Embarassed
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by teltaru on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:37 pm

Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by EchoBase on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:38 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

Oh dear, it really can't get any better.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:39 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

That's...that's adorable to me for some reason. Laughing
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Piper Maru on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:43 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

I swear to God, one of my headcanons is that Kylo has beautiful calligraphy and loves poetry Laughing
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by teltaru on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:44 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

That's...that's adorable to me for some reason. Laughing
@ZioRen

Same. I don't know what to do with this information yet but I love it. Laughing

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:46 pm

Actually, this is sort of another thing Rey and Kylo have in common. Now I'm imagining Ben doing his calligraphy while Rey is across the galaxy writing and doodling in her survival guide. In a setting where normal paper and writing is rare, that's a unique pastime they share!
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:55 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

OMG, lol. I love it. BEN SOLO WAS A SWEET BOY AT HEART!

My husband did calligraphy as a hobby when he was a kid/teen I love you
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by MrsWindu on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:34 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

I swear to God, one of my headcanons is that Kylo has beautiful calligraphy and loves poetry Laughing
@Piper Maru
In one of the fanfics ( Landscape with a Blur of Conquerors) it has a scene where Kylo shows off his masterful calligraphy to sign his marriage contract to Rey. I thought it was a nice touch then.

That pic was from the VD ? I’m still waiting for mine to be delivered, along with The Art of TLJ.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 5:31 pm

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Atenais on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 5:52 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by rey09 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 5:57 pm

@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais I think she thought it was be as easy as turning on the switch but the pain is far deeper than that for him. She sensed conflict but didn't dig deep enough. Like the whole han and leia dynamic was never explored and is totally essential, his relationship with snoke. While he was manipulating her, he was very much desperate to hold on to the only one who cared truly  Sad
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by IoJovi on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 5:57 pm

@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it. Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides. My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it. Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides. My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

@IoJovi
If she had the time to talk she would have. Unfortunately Kylo put her on the spot. The Resistance -- Leia and Finn included, potentially -- were about to be decimated. She had to act in order to save her friends, but in any other situation I'm pretty sure she would have taken the time to confront him. She just didn't have it.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by rey09 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it.  Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides.  My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him.  Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

@IoJovi YES EXACTLY!! I think it's a matter of bad timing. They are not ready for each other.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by IoJovi on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:01 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it. Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides. My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

@IoJovi
If she had the time to talk she would have. Unfortunately Kylo put her on the spot. The Resistance -- Leia and Finn included, potentially -- were about to be decimated. She had to act in order to save her friends, but in any other situation I'm pretty sure she would have taken the time to confront him. She just didn't have it.
@FrolickingFizzgig

True, but it’s all about his perception of the moment. No doubt it tore him up.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Atenais on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:14 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it. Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides. My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

@IoJovi
If she had the time to talk she would have. Unfortunately Kylo put her on the spot. The Resistance -- Leia and Finn included, potentially -- were about to be decimated. She had to act in order to save her friends, but in any other situation I'm pretty sure she would have taken the time to confront him. She just didn't have it.
@FrolickingFizzgig

True, but it’s all about his perception of the moment. No doubt it tore him up.

@IoJovi

I believe this is the reason why TLJ tore us - Reylos - so deeply apart. We were almost there, we almost had Kylo's redemption in our grasp, it was there, for a millisecond. But then Rian took it away from us and gave us Renperor instead. And Renperor almost means no redemption at all, because we are too much aware of GA perception.

But who knows, as everybody is saying here, Kylo is the last Skywalker. I still believe in his redemption, not because I like his character, but because it would be unfair and very sad, after all he suffered, to give him just punishment and death.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:19 pm

@Atenais wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one whose heart broke at a single word. Please. Sad
@motherofpearl1

You're not alone. I can't blame her, after all, she didn't know him that much, she saw a glimpse of hope, but it's not her responsibility to change him. But in that moment, she could have changed him if she wanted (and if she knew how to do it).

Anyway, if he will get his redemption, I prefer it to be his own making.
@Atenais

On my first viewing, I was so bloody angry with him I couldn’t stand it.  Now I’m more angry with her, although the fault still lies on both sides.  My heart also breaks for him because just like his mother, Rey chose the Resistance over him.  Just like Luke, she went for her lightsaber instead of talking it out.

I just want both of them to find the happiness they crave.

@IoJovi
If she had the time to talk she would have. Unfortunately Kylo put her on the spot. The Resistance -- Leia and Finn included, potentially -- were about to be decimated. She had to act in order to save her friends, but in any other situation I'm pretty sure she would have taken the time to confront him. She just didn't have it.
@FrolickingFizzgig

True, but it’s all about his perception of the moment.  No doubt it tore him up.

@IoJovi

I believe this is the reason why TLJ tore us - Reylos - so deeply apart. We were almost there, we almost had Kylo's redemption in our grasp, it was there, for a millisecond. But then Rian took it away from us and gave us Renperor instead. And Renperor almost means no redemption at all, because we are too much aware of GA perception.

But who knows, as everybody is saying here, Kylo is the last Skywalker. I still believe in his redemption, not because I like his character, but because it would be unfair and very sad, after all he suffered, to give him just punishment and death.
@Atenais
I'm 100% behind Renperor (the way Rian handled it). He doesn't become the controlled, conflict-free Vader whose compassion and humanity aren't even visible until they're pointed out by Luke. He comes into his own as a character and a villain by defeating his abuser (thanks to Rey's support), but his character is still just that -- his character. He's still a terrible villain who lets his emotion get in the way. He's still holding on to his trauma. He's painfully relatable on a human level.

Luke gave everybody something, and it's actually poignantly symbolic. He handed it to Leia at the end. The dice, which are used in what? Games of chance. When he arrived he gave everybody what they needed. Another chance. Kylo picked the dice up at the end, connecting him with that "plan" of sorts. Luke's actions were something of a move in a game, and I actually think Rian handled that really well. The chance extended to the Resistance, Leia and Kylo.



Last edited by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:22 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

Plot Twist: Ben's calligraphy skills match the painting skills of Modreyn Oreyn, an Elder Scrolls: Oblivion character.

Spoiler:
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by AcrosstheStars on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:22 pm

Does anyone remember the quote from this past week that I can’t find from Rian, about he’s not in charge of Kylo’s arc in 9 but he didn’t peel all those layers back just for Rey to kill him? It was something like that, but I wish I could see the exact wording again.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by shii405 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:26 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

I swear to God, one of my headcanons is that Kylo has beautiful calligraphy and loves poetry Laughing
@Piper Maru

OMG I LOVE THIS!! I NEED TO READ KYLO REN'S SERIES OF POEM FOR REY!!!!
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by ReyofLightSide on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:28 pm

@teltaru wrote:Did anyone catch this in the movie? Seems like our boy used to have a hobby.
@teltaru

What? Stahppppppp! What a sweet, sensitive soul. Awwwww.
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