Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Starliteprism on Tue 24 Apr 2018, 12:28 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:The thing I like about the ST is how it is full of surprises. You don't expect a stormtrooper to have a conscience. You don't expect the 'villain' to be revealed as young and handsome.You don't expect said villain to be vulnerable and damaged. You don't expect one of the heroes to get killed, and another to turn out as flawed. You don't expect the good looking, cocky pilot to be a jerk. You don't expect the heroine to be a nobody. You don't expect the 'big bad' to get killed off in part 2. The ST has taken all the memorable qualities not only of the original films, but other similar epics and turned them completely around. I have absolutely no idea where IX is going.
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This is not going to go the way you think...LOL!
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 25 Apr 2018, 2:25 am

@Kylo Rey wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Just found this post on thereylovoid ....it sums up what I think Reys feelings are, although I could be wrong!
              https://interstellaireylo.tumblr.com/post/173173424634/what-he-hoped-for-was-for-two-broken-people-to
@motherofpearl1

I think this poster does a very good job of explaining Kylo's point of view, and how it really does look on a surface level.

I haven't had a chance to watch TLJ since the theatre, even though I own the Bluray, lol, so I will say this with the caveat that I might get mad at Rey all over again once I see it again, lol ... But I think deep down Rey definitely has "a thing" for him, and always did from the second she saw his face. The amount of crying involved, the fixing up for him, her getting into his personal space on the elevator, her rushing to him, her willingness to tell him her story and to reach out to him, the look on her face when he killed Snoke, the way she trusted him in the fight (thigh grab), the intensity of her reaction to the vision all scream that she has serious feelings for him whether she wants them or not.

I think she wants those feelings for Ben Solo, but can't quite deal with the Kylo Ren part of the love match.  I think a lot of that could be put down to immaturity in that she has a very simplistic worldview (good or bad and nothing in between) at this point, and I also think that she is pretty unpracticed with feelings in general except her superpower emotions of anger, grit and denial.

I think her behavior in the Poe comic was a good sign that she starting to see the world ..  and maybe people ... more complexly. If she can learn to see and appreciate nuance, love for the whole package of Kylo/Ben may not be so scary.
@SoloSideCousin

I don't think you're reaching at all. Actions speak louder than words and her actions and body language through the course of TLJ scream attraction but yeah, agreed that she had a thing for him as soon as he unmasked himself for her. There was debate revolving around whether it was simply just surprise and shock over Kylo being a normal looking human and not a scarred or deformed monster or if it was that look. The fact that she pretty much gave him elevator eyes and looked away quickly when she caught him walking towards and looking at her was a sign that she had a crush/attraction towards him though IMO, even if that quickly changed due to the situation. She looked weirdly hopeful for a moment as well when she sees Han confront Kylo on the bridge.

Then even in the beginning of TLJ when she's still in hate mode, she looks transfixed by Kylo when they connect during their first force bond. (Btw, if you watch the FB scenes with headphones, the heavy breathing sounds ridiculously suggestive lol, especially with the absence of other sound and music).

I mean...




And THEN she remembers to shoot him.

Then in the second force bond, her reaction when Kylo turns around even though she should have been expecting it at this point is quite noticeable on rewatches:



That underlying subconscious attraction is there even though she's supposed to be hating him. Definitely something I think Daisy was going for in her performance. I think something really refreshing about their sexual attraction/burgeoning romance is that the obstacles placed in their way aren't the cliche other love interests/love triangles or questioning whether they're attracted to each other (once Rey falls for him, she falls hard and fast), but rather their conflicting views/ideology. They both clearly have feelings for the other and want each other, but they each can't go to the other side yet. Rey's separation of Ben and Kylo as if they were two different people is very simplistic and naive, and something I think she does to make her feelings seem more acceptable. She has to grow and accept both parts of the whole, which is what it's leading to for her in IX, imo. Another period/gothic romance parallel I could see in IX is Rey rejecting the weight of societal expectations and conformity that the Resistance (and antis LOL) will represent by not giving a f**** about what they think about her relationship and doing whatever she wants when it comes to Kylo.
@Kylo Rey That is something I want to see myself....Kylo, for all his posturing, showed obvious regret at the end of TLJ. After years of being Snoke's puppet he's finally the one in control, but it very obviously is not going to bring him the happiness he secretly craves. Rey is now with the Resistance and the 'last Jedi'....but will it really bring her any joy? Rey's journey seems to be about finding things are not what she wants them to be....she wanted Han to be a father, and lost him. Luke to be her 'hero' and he wasn't....Ben Solo to be Ben Solo and not Kylo Ren. And now - what if she finds the Resistance wanting?
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Moonlight13 on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:29 pm

I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad Crying or Very sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:33 pm

@Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad Crying or Very sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up
@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.



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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by SoloSideCousin on Tue 01 May 2018, 1:40 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad Crying or Very sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up
@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.



@ZioRen

OMG! She's right! He's saying that. Adam would totally say stuff like that as part of the performance. They edit stuff out with him all the time.

He is like a terrified boy, who is desperately trying to talk himself out of a panic attack. Oh God, this is really sad and upsetting, because this terror would just be magnified 1000x by Luke surviving. No wonder he is a complete wreck when he gets outside.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Birdwoman on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:08 pm

Did they show that Hux picked up on the fact that Kylo is terrified of his uncle? I know in the book he made a note of it. Ahhh, I need to go watch that scene again.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:29 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:Did they show that Hux picked up on the fact that Kylo is terrified of his uncle? I know in the book he made a note of it. Ahhh, I need to go watch that scene again.
@Birdwoman

Yes! I didn't catch Adam mouthing those words until you posted that gif, but the novelization explicitly mentions that Kylo is terrified here.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Darth_Awakened on Tue 01 May 2018, 2:44 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad Crying or Very sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up
@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.



@ZioRen

Kylo is definitely a vivid image of cold blooded new Supreme Leader of GFFA in that gifs. lol!  In some parallel universe for sure.

For the reminder that how TRUE evil supreme leader looks like when he triumphs:



EDIT: An idea just crossed my mind: is it possible that Ben Solo has never fallen to the dark side completely? In a sense that all his DS predecessors did:
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Dar-ren19 on Tue 01 May 2018, 4:18 pm

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@Moonlight13 wrote:I found this on Tumblr and thought it was very interesting (and sad Crying or Very sad ):
http://madandmisquoted.tumblr.com/post/173457137203/so-im-having-trouble-breathing-because-i-grew-up
@Moonlight13

I was just posting about this, but in the wrong thread haha.

But yeah, this Tumblr user said that when she reads Kylo's lips in this scene, she believes he's mouthing this to himself in this first gif: "It’s okay, you’re alright.” In the second one he says “It’s just Luke”. If she's right, Kylo is trying to reassure/comfort himself because he's terrified.



@ZioRen

Kylo is definitely a vivid image of cold blooded new Supreme Leader of GFFA in that gifs. lol!  In some parallel universe for sure.

For the reminder that how TRUE evil supreme leader looks like when he triumphs:



EDIT: An idea just crossed my mind: is it possible that Ben Solo has never fallen to the dark side completely? In a sense that all his DS predecessors did:
@Darth_Awakened
Well he himself admits the persistent call to the Light. Also, Snoke mentioned that his training isn’t complete.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Saracene on Tue 01 May 2018, 4:58 pm

I've seen somewhere else that apparently Kylo actually has less overall screentime in TLJ than TFA?

If so, wow it goes to show how impactful his scenes are that I didn't even register it.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by californiagirl on Tue 01 May 2018, 5:07 pm

@Saracene wrote:I've seen somewhere else that apparently Kylo actually has less overall screentime in TLJ than TFA?

If so, wow it goes to show how impactful his scenes are that I didn't even register it.
@Saracene

I remember seeing screen time numbers for TFA way back when. Finn had about as much as Rey did, Han had a bunch, Poe and Kylo had about the same amounts, but Kylo's was more interesting. Smile I've been curious about TLJ, since the focus on Kylo seemed to increase, but maybe that was just regarding how central he was to the plot and Rey's journey.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if Rey had less screen time in TLJ than in TFA, even if TLJ is a longer movie, because there are so many other subplots with other characters, and she sort of drops out after the throne room, and is in the last act in only a few pivotal moments. It's really about, Kylo, Luke, and the Resistance/FO, and Rey just kind of pops up to be the hero savior a few times. Can't let the audience know what she's thinking or anything...
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Riri on Tue 01 May 2018, 5:13 pm

@Saracene
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/
Nearly everyones screen time gets cut, interestingly Finns is cut by almost a half, Kylos is cut by a few minutes.

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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by californiagirl on Tue 01 May 2018, 5:34 pm

@Riri wrote:@Saracene
https://www.imdb.com/list/ls027631145/
Nearly everyones screen time gets cut, interestingly Finns is cut by almost a half, Kylos is cut by a few minutes.
@Riri

Except Poe who got more time, but that's because he was originally supposed to die in TFA, and becomes an actual character with his own subplot in TLJ. And for all the griping about how much time the casino subplot took up, it doesn't last nearly as long as everyone thinks it does.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Kylo Rey on Tue 01 May 2018, 5:50 pm

That IMDb time is very misleading though as it only counts screen time when characters are directly visible on screen. Kylo is in the scene with Snoke and Rey for example but a lot of that would be cut out according to that guide. Idk that IMDb one seems too short. There was a YouTube compilation of all his scenes in TLJ that was definitely longer than that. Also the reason why I think he feels more like a focal point in TLJ is because Luke and Rey talk about him a lot even when he's not there. A lot of Rey's story on Ahch-to revolves around Kylo.


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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by special_cases on Tue 01 May 2018, 5:56 pm

Finn had so much screen time in TFA because he was the main character (with BB-8 ) in opening scenes. Usually characters who are opening the movie have too much screen time. C-3PO has 20 m and R2-D2 has 18 m in ANH because they were opening the movie. Funny that C-3PO has more screen time that Kylo in TFA and 14 m in ESB while Kylo has 15 m in TLJ.

But it's interesting that TFA is opening with Kylo's theme and not with Finn's theme.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by rawpowah on Tue 01 May 2018, 6:24 pm

@special_cases I suppose JJ might have also used Finn as a camera to introduce the FO system and Kylo. Poe's scene with San Tekka also has that set up feeling.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 01 May 2018, 11:26 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Birdwoman wrote:Did they show that Hux picked up on the fact that Kylo is terrified of his uncle? I know in the book he made a note of it. Ahhh, I need to go watch that scene again.
@Birdwoman

Yes! I didn't catch Adam mouthing those words until you posted that gif, but the novelization explicitly mentions that Kylo is terrified here.
@ISeeAnIsland

That is incredible!! The book stressed how frightened Kylo is of Luke, so this explains a lot. His actions were born of fear more than rage. It also shows how much courage he has...to face the 'bogeyman' of his childhood alone. Poor Kylo.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Thu 03 May 2018, 10:08 pm

hiya. I'm hanging out for when starwars.com databank updates the characters with more TLJ content.
So I randomly look from time to time..
I just noticed the main page image for Kylo Ren has been updated.. I don't think the blurb has been.. Anyway, thought I'd share.

Enjoy! I love this image!

edited to add: wayback machine confirms the current blurb remains unchanged when comparing back to 1 feb, 2018.
[yep, DeeBee is totally procrastinating and wasting time.. ahem..]


Last edited by DeeBee on Thu 03 May 2018, 11:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added comment)
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sun 06 May 2018, 12:47 am

Hi all, I recently shared star wars databank entries for Snoke that was very Ben Solo centric..  (See Here)

I've just shared another updated entry. This time for Luke Skywalker (See Here) - A new mention of Ben Solo has been added.. with again, no mention of Kylo Ren! Thought this may be of interest.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Tue 15 May 2018, 6:10 pm

Good morning. well it's morning where I am at least..
So we have a new entry in the Kylo Ren SW databank! [this is kind of addictive.] The first of many to come  I am guessing..

this is on the main page:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

I've gotta run.. just quickly...
Most interesting to me:
He saw Rey 'an ally in destroying the past he hated' - it is all about destroying the past for him huh.
.. and.. his 'entreaty to rule a new galactic order' - this clears up for me any ambiguity about what Kylo was wanting to lead!
Yes! They chose an image of the thigh grab!!!! Significant no?! I think what they can't put into words at this point (endgame romantic reylo) they've conveyed with choice of image!! At least.. that's my theory.

thoughts anyone?
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by rawpowah on Tue 15 May 2018, 6:29 pm

@DeeBee Thank you for the update! I can't figure out how to access the databank, so I'm thrilled that you're posing all the latest info.

I'm laughing @ "exulted" Laughing I guess it was more of an internal thing. Laughing
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Starliteprism on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:18 pm

@DeeBee wrote:Good morning. well it's morning where I am at least..
So we have a new entry in the Kylo Ren SW databank! [this is kind of addictive.] The first of many to come  I am guessing..

this is on the main page:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

I've gotta run.. just quickly...
Most interesting to me:
He saw Rey 'an ally in destroying the past he hated' - it is all about destroying the past for him huh.
.. and.. his 'entreaty to rule a new galactic order' - this clears up for me any ambiguity about what Kylo was wanting to lead!
Yes! They chose an image of the thigh grab!!!! Significant no?! I think what they can't put into words at this point (endgame romantic reylo) they've conveyed with choice of image!! At least.. that's my theory.

thoughts anyone?
@DeeBee

I think the bit I like the most is "exulted when she left Ahch-to to join him" as in he must have known pretty early on after the hut scene she was making her way to him.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Starliteprism on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:20 pm

@rawpowah wrote:@DeeBee Thank you for the update! I can't figure out how to access the databank, so I'm thrilled that you're posing all the latest info.

I'm laughing @ "exulted" Laughing I guess it was more of an internal thing. Laughing
@rawpowah

https://www.starwars.com/databank and then "search" Smile
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by rawpowah on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:34 pm

@Starliteprism I didn't see the search bar lol. Thank you.
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Re: Discussion: Kylo Ren/Ben Solo in TLJ

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 16 May 2018, 12:46 pm

@DeeBee wrote:Good morning. well it's morning where I am at least..
So we have a new entry in the Kylo Ren SW databank! [this is kind of addictive.] The first of many to come  I am guessing..

this is on the main page:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/kylo-ren

I've gotta run.. just quickly...
Most interesting to me:
He saw Rey 'an ally in destroying the past he hated' - it is all about destroying the past for him huh.
.. and.. his 'entreaty to rule a new galactic order' - this clears up for me any ambiguity about what Kylo was wanting to lead!
Yes! They chose an image of the thigh grab!!!! Significant no?! I think what they can't put into words at this point (endgame romantic reylo) they've conveyed with choice of image!! At least.. that's my theory.

thoughts anyone?
@DeeBee

That entry sounds exactly like my husband’s reading of the film. He gets my “romantic” take on things, but he thought Kylo just wanted Rey for her powers. Rolling Eyes It just highlights how ambiguous they’re keeping the story. Crossing our fingers that Episode IX’s ending solidifies the romance.

Does anyone else find a disconnect in Kylo’s desperation to be like Vader in TFA and his determination to kill the past and get rid of legacies in TLJ? Like, did losing to Rey make him think, “Welp, I failed at the Vader thing, so I guess I’ll go the opposite direction.” Question
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