Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

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Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 11:27 pm

This thread is a place to discuss the changes and personal journey Luke has gone through to make him the man he is by the time of The Last Jedi.
Reply below to start thread.


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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:09 pm

I loved the visual call back to Luke staring at the sunset on Ahch-To after confronting Kylo on Crait, the "in his final moments" scene and the similar sunset scenes on Tatooine in ANH with Luke. So bittersweet, tear jerker.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by shii405 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:22 pm

I love, love, love Luke's reunion with R2-D2! I felt like seeing the young Luke and it was probably the only scene where he smiled sincerely!
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by reylo1992 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:08 pm

The Art of The Last Jedi confirming that Kylo is the one who told the truth about the assassination attempt:
https://nite0wl29.tumblr.com/post/168585760040/cartoonjessie-from-the-art-of-the-last-jedi
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by Aphelionna on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:23 pm

@reylo1992 I don't think I ever doubted Kylo's version of events, but thank you for confirming this! Can't wait to get my hands on the Art book.

This narrative choice made complete sense to me, I don't think it's a character assassination as I've seen others complain about online. Yes, he is someone who believed that even Anakin could come back from the dark side. But if you had witnessed the effects one powerful dark force user could have on the galaxy before, would you not be tempted, even for a second, to snuff out another reign of terror before it was too late?

I'm not trying to defend Luke because it was a bad decision on his part, but I can totally see where he was coming from. Luke isn't without flaws in TLJ and I love that.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by Little_Boots on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:31 pm

I don't know about you guys, but I thought Luke Skywalker was uber creeeeppppyyyyy....!!!! standing over Ben Solo contemplating on whether or not to kill him!

Yoda was right!!



Afraid af!! of Luke Skywalker!!

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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by rey09 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 5:13 pm

So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 5:43 pm

@rey09 wrote:So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
@rey09

I think the idea was that Luke realizes he can't be the one to save Kylo (I mean, nobody can save Kylo except Kylo. But Luke is the least of those who could save him due to their history) though he tells Leia that nobody is ever truly gone.

HOWEVER I still think the tone of the Kylo and Luke confrontation was disappointing considering the circumstances. They missed out on having it get real in favor of a more bad*** sendoff.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by vaderito on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 5:50 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
@rey09

I think the idea was that Luke realizes he can't be the one to save Kylo (I mean, nobody can save Kylo except Kylo. But Luke is the least of those who could save him due to their history) though he tells Leia that nobody is ever truly gone.

HOWEVER I still think the tone of the Kylo and Luke confrontation was disappointing considering the circumstances. They missed out on having it get real in favor of a more bad*** sendoff.
@ZioRen

I agree with this. Luke came off uncompassionate. Like, you are trash, I just want you to know that. I also noticed that his Astral Projection looked like Luke when he tried to kill Kylo, not like Luke as he is now. I guess that's some Jungian sith that I don't quite understand but for some reason he wanted to project that image for Kylo, as if to show that he hasn't changed (his opinion on him).
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 5:56 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
@rey09

I think the idea was that Luke realizes he can't be the one to save Kylo (I mean, nobody can save Kylo except Kylo. But Luke is the least of those who could save him due to their history) though he tells Leia that nobody is ever truly gone.

HOWEVER I still think the tone of the Kylo and Luke confrontation was disappointing considering the circumstances. They missed out on having it get real in favor of a more bad*** sendoff.
@ZioRen

I agree with this. Luke came off uncompassionate. Like, you are trash, I just want you to know that. I also noticed that his Astral Projection looked like Luke when he tried to kill Kylo, not like Luke as he is now. I guess that's some Jungian sith that I don't quite understand but for some reason he wanted to project that image for Kylo, as if to show that he hasn't changed (his opinion on him).
@vaderito

I saw other people mentioning that, like he did it to throw Kylo off by reminding him of that night. But if that was the case, why not project himself with Greenie? Or was he trying to throw him off further by wielding Anakin's saber (or was that Anakin's saber?)
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by vaderito on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:05 pm

@ZioRen I guess blue was Anakin's saber (I cannot differentiate between various hilts to save my life) cause he knew about Kylo's particular attachment to it. or whatever. It is strange that he didn't project the greenie.

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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by rey09 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:12 pm

ok so big thing I'm confused about- Luke gives this whole spiel to rey about how the jedi messed up and how he didn't help ben right whatever. But I found his actions very contradictory. Like when she started feeling a pull to the dark and Luke was like wth how could you. And it turned out the dark hole she was drawn to was nothing remotely dangerous. Like he seemed to be freaking out over nothing? And also he feels regret over Ben but then he's honestly such an a** to Kylo like kylo's a bad guy because of some inherent thing. Luke was preaching all this good stuff but he didn't actually practice any of it. The jedi must end but then says rey will be a jedi (even tho everyone says luke is the last one..?) and basically do the same age old battle between good and evil. Like huh?
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:31 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
@rey09

I think the idea was that Luke realizes he can't be the one to save Kylo (I mean, nobody can save Kylo except Kylo. But Luke is the least of those who could save him due to their history) though he tells Leia that nobody is ever truly gone.

HOWEVER I still think the tone of the Kylo and Luke confrontation was disappointing considering the circumstances. They missed out on having it get real in favor of a more bad*** sendoff.
@ZioRen

I agree with this. Luke came off uncompassionate. Like, you are trash, I just want you to know that. I also noticed that his Astral Projection looked like Luke when he tried to kill Kylo, not like Luke as he is now. I guess that's some Jungian sith that I don't quite understand but for some reason he wanted to project that image for Kylo, as if to show that he hasn't changed (his opinion on him).
@vaderito
I totally disagree to be honest. This is the ambiguity Adam was referencing. You can see the stark difference between his interactions with Leia and his interactions with Kylo. He tells Leia the truth -- no one is every really gone. With Kylo, however, he knew there was no point going soft or trying to apologize. He tells him another truth. A truth he needed to hear; he failed him. When Luke experienced that moment of weakness years ago he saw the frightened boy in Ben, and he sees that once again in Kylo at the end of TLJ. Luke had basically ascended. He knows exactly what's going to happen ("Every word of what you just said is wrong"). Kylo won't destroy Rey or the legacy of the Jedi. Luke will be with Kylo always now, just like Han. He stalled Kylo so everybody could live to see another day, Ben included.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:46 pm

@Aphelionna wrote:@reylo1992 I don't think I ever doubted Kylo's version of events, but thank you for confirming this! Can't wait to get my hands on the Art book.

This narrative choice made complete sense to me, I don't think it's a character assassination as I've seen others complain about online. Yes, he is someone who believed that even Anakin could come back from the dark side. But if you had witnessed the effects one powerful dark force user could have on the galaxy before, would you not be tempted, even for a second, to snuff out another reign of terror before it was too late?

I'm not trying to defend Luke because it was a bad decision on his part, but I can totally see where he was coming from. Luke isn't without flaws in TLJ and I love that.
@Aphelionna

I'm thinking in a sense both Luke and Kylo told parts of the truth of what. Luke omitted an important detail at first (though didn't deny it later when Rey confronted him if my memory serves me), and Kylo was missing the key piece of information that Luke had drawn the saber but was not going to go through with it. I think Luke was telling the truth in that. But - from Kylo's perspective he would not know that..

So the two versions combine to create a third more complete reality.

I'm hoping that this is true also of Rey's vision of her future with Ben and of Kylo/Ben's future with Rey - man I wish we had seen them.
I commented earlier today about Luke and his attitude in the final confrontation with Kylo. found it in reactions thread..
Here's my thinking..
Regarding Luke, my take away based on one viewing was the confrontation between Luke and Kylo was luke stalling so the resistance could escape. But it was also Luke facing up to Kylo and admitting his mistake - and asking for forgiveness.
However, equally Luke was not a broken man reliant on Kylo's forgiveness even though he wanted it. He had made peace with his mistake.
So what of Luke's tone? I can see it could seem glib. I took it to be supremely peaceful, purposeful and confident.
Luke gave Kylo the opportunity to confront him - and I think being a projection he was protecting Kylo from fully descending into the darkness by killing luke and getting his vengence. Luke was looking out for Kylo in the way he chose to confront him.
And i think Luke confronted Kylo to help with his redemption, though the sense is that Luke also realised it wasn't going to happen then. There was a confidence that it would happen eventually.. and that is where the 'see you around kid' fit in for me.
I don't see Luke haunting Kylo in a nasty way, this is Luke! The same man who admitted the jedi were full of hubris and arrogance. In his confrontation with Kylo and his promise to see him around - I don't see this as an arrogant threat within context.

Also - Luke didn't let himself be Kylo's whipping boy, who Kylo could put all the blame on for everything. This is important. I think Luke acknowledged he contributed to things and made a mistake, but he also confronted Kylo with some hard truths.
It's a curious mix - not at all how I would have expected a Luke/Kylo confrontation to be... and I'm enjoying pondering it more!

It also serves as an interesting example for Kylo - that you can purposefully confront your mistakes, ask for forgiveness and not be completely broken by your own weakness. Some good modelling going on there. Take note Kylo you may need that lesson in IX!


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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:55 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:So Luke thought the worst of Kylo, decided to kill him without even talking to him, creates kylo ren and then when he meets kylo again he's all like yea...not here to ask for forgiveness and basically suggesting rey is the future. For kylo it's such a slap in the face.
@rey09

I think the idea was that Luke realizes he can't be the one to save Kylo (I mean, nobody can save Kylo except Kylo. But Luke is the least of those who could save him due to their history) though he tells Leia that nobody is ever truly gone.

HOWEVER I still think the tone of the Kylo and Luke confrontation was disappointing considering the circumstances. They missed out on having it get real in favor of a more bad*** sendoff.
@ZioRen

I agree with this. Luke came off uncompassionate. Like, you are trash, I just want you to know that. I also noticed that his Astral Projection looked like Luke when he tried to kill Kylo, not like Luke as he is now. I guess that's some Jungian sith that I don't quite understand but for some reason he wanted to project that image for Kylo, as if to show that he hasn't changed (his opinion on him).
@vaderito

I view Luke differently than you @vaderito.. However, I love your observation here. Great eyes I hadn't noticed this!
What could it mean? !
If Luke is framed positively here, it could be that Luke chose to project that image of himself as it was most therapeutic to Kylo and what Luke knows he needs to work through...
The tone of the confrontation was not what I expected.. so at first I wasn't sure what to make of it... but I'm starting to settle on an understanding that works for me...
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by thescavenger on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:59 pm

What I liked about Luke was that he didn't remain the constant traditional hero for fanboys to gush over.

He was flawed in the way that it was almost meta-conscious. How do you live under the pressure of being 'Luke Skywalker the legend'? He said himself it was the hubris. Perhaps he was told so often that he was the hero that saved the galaxy that it got to his head. Started a school to train new Jedi all on his own. He probably thought it was his responsibility as a 'hero', and not as an uncle, to sacrifice his own nephew to save the galaxy. Of course, he was wrong. That was why he went to Ach-to, all repentant.

I know the jury's out on Luke in TLJ, but the best part for me was that Luke's hero journey was still ongoing. And coming to accept what his role meant by the end of the film. Going out with peace and purpose was the actual complete to his Journey, not the one in ROTJ. It's like a coming-of-age for an old man. Despite the expectation of him training Rey, he was still the boy in ESB, looking for guidance - the Yoda appearance served as a reminder of the burden he had being the only Jedi all this time.

On a shorter note, before he died his last words were 'see you around kid' to Kylo. I imagine he has a larger plan beyond his death. Definitely has not given up on his nephew.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:11 am

@thescavenger wrote:What I liked about Luke was that he didn't remain the constant traditional hero for fanboys to gush over.

He was flawed in the way that it was almost meta-conscious. How do you live under the pressure of being 'Luke Skywalker the legend'? He said himself it was the hubris. Perhaps he was told so often that he was the hero that saved the galaxy that it got to his head. Started a school to train new Jedi all on his own. He probably thought it was his responsibility as a 'hero', and not as an uncle, to sacrifice his own nephew to save the galaxy. Of course, he was wrong. That was why he went to Ach-to, all repentant.

I know the jury's out on Luke in TLJ, but the best part for me was that Luke's hero journey was still ongoing. And coming to accept what his role meant by the end of the film. Going out with peace and purpose was the actual complete to his Journey, not the one in ROTJ. It's like a coming-of-age for an old man. Despite the expectation of him training Rey, he was still the boy in ESB, looking for guidance - the Yoda appearance served as a reminder of the burden he had being the only Jedi all this time.

On a shorter note, before he died his last words were 'see you around kid' to Kylo. I imagine he has a larger plan beyond his death. Definitely has not given up on his nephew.
@thescavenger

I love this whole comment! Sooo well put and I heartily agree!
Great insights about Luke the hero.. it's a massive burden to bear. and Luke was just a man. tough gig..

Loved how you put the bolded..
yeah I saw Luke as making peace with his own legacy - he is at that stage in development where he ponders what he has contributed to the world in his life.. [for those interested in psychology - it's Erikson's generativity vs stagnation stage of development]
I'm excited to see how Luke can be of help hopefully as a FS in IX. I'm hoping for matchmaker Luke!
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:26 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:What I liked about Luke was that he didn't remain the constant traditional hero for fanboys to gush over.

He was flawed in the way that it was almost meta-conscious. How do you live under the pressure of being 'Luke Skywalker the legend'? He said himself it was the hubris. Perhaps he was told so often that he was the hero that saved the galaxy that it got to his head. Started a school to train new Jedi all on his own. He probably thought it was his responsibility as a 'hero', and not as an uncle, to sacrifice his own nephew to save the galaxy. Of course, he was wrong. That was why he went to Ach-to, all repentant.

I know the jury's out on Luke in TLJ, but the best part for me was that Luke's hero journey was still ongoing. And coming to accept what his role meant by the end of the film. Going out with peace and purpose was the actual complete to his Journey, not the one in ROTJ. It's like a coming-of-age for an old man. Despite the expectation of him training Rey, he was still the boy in ESB, looking for guidance - the Yoda appearance served as a reminder of the burden he had being the only Jedi all this time.

On a shorter note, before he died his last words were 'see you around kid' to Kylo. I imagine he has a larger plan beyond his death. Definitely has not given up on his nephew.
@thescavenger

I love this whole comment! Sooo well put and I heartily agree!
Great insights about Luke the hero.. it's a massive burden to bear. and Luke was just a man. tough gig..

Loved how you put the bolded..
yeah I saw Luke as making peace with his own legacy - he is at that stage in development where he ponders what he has contributed to the world in his life.. [for those interested in psychology - it's Erikson's generativity vs stagnation stage of development]
I'm excited to see how Luke can be of help hopefully as a FS in IX. I'm hoping for matchmaker Luke!
@DeeBee

Matchmaker Luke in IX would be a nice evolution from c*ckblocker Luke in TLJ.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:28 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:What I liked about Luke was that he didn't remain the constant traditional hero for fanboys to gush over.

He was flawed in the way that it was almost meta-conscious. How do you live under the pressure of being 'Luke Skywalker the legend'? He said himself it was the hubris. Perhaps he was told so often that he was the hero that saved the galaxy that it got to his head. Started a school to train new Jedi all on his own. He probably thought it was his responsibility as a 'hero', and not as an uncle, to sacrifice his own nephew to save the galaxy. Of course, he was wrong. That was why he went to Ach-to, all repentant.

I know the jury's out on Luke in TLJ, but the best part for me was that Luke's hero journey was still ongoing. And coming to accept what his role meant by the end of the film. Going out with peace and purpose was the actual complete to his Journey, not the one in ROTJ. It's like a coming-of-age for an old man. Despite the expectation of him training Rey, he was still the boy in ESB, looking for guidance - the Yoda appearance served as a reminder of the burden he had being the only Jedi all this time.

On a shorter note, before he died his last words were 'see you around kid' to Kylo. I imagine he has a larger plan beyond his death. Definitely has not given up on his nephew.
@thescavenger

I love this whole comment! Sooo well put and I heartily agree!
Great insights about Luke the hero.. it's a massive burden to bear. and Luke was just a man. tough gig..

Loved how you put the bolded..
yeah I saw Luke as making peace with his own legacy - he is at that stage in development where he ponders what he has contributed to the world in his life.. [for those interested in psychology - it's Erikson's generativity vs stagnation stage of development]
I'm excited to see how Luke can be of help hopefully as a FS in IX. I'm hoping for matchmaker Luke!
@DeeBee

Matchmaker Luke in IX would be a nice evolution from c*ckblocker Luke in TLJ.
@ISeeAnIsland

Exactly! I can see him now in the FG hang out cursing his timing and realising if he'd just left them alone!!!! Wink tee hee..
who knows, we may get a line about that in IX tee hee..

Edited to add: I always thought Leia would play the role of hopeful matchmaker in IX, or at least lampshade things - but maybe with Carrie's passing, that role will become Luke's.. which could be very interesting.... and full of comedic possibilities!!!!
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by DeeBee on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:22 pm

Hi Everyone,
It seems my mind is continuing to mull over TLJ in the background as I go about my day!
I am yet to put my thoughts together about the major force story line without seeing the movie at least a second time..
But if I've understood what Snoke said about the force correctly - he said that when the darkness rises so does the light to meet it. I think he explicitly states that Rey's powers are a result of Kylo's growing power.
I had a random, possibly mind bending thought: If Luke had not cut himself off from the Force and gone to Ach-too, would Rey's force powers have developed to be so strong and meet Kylo's?
It seems to me the implication is no they would not have. Because Luke's powers would have balanced out Kylo's.
[If no one else has started a thread on the force after I've seen this movie again, I might bite the bullet and start one. lol.]

For people who are not a fan of Luke closing himself off from the force, exiling himself on Ach-too in order to die and bring the jedi order to an end - maybe this is a positive outcome of this?
Thoughts?
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by ZioRen on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 6:02 pm

I can't stop laughing at this post. Laughing Oh Luke, I know it's more complicated than that but still


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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by snufkin on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 6:48 pm

Luke was my least favorite in the OT and they did a great job of finally making him interesting to me. At least I'm 80% sure that Mark Hammil was straight up channeling Lee Marvin in an homage to the Pekinpah film they did together.

Otherwise, what's interesting in retrospect was that while I thought some version of Dark Luke would happen, it actually went down the closest to how I thought:

- Luke has good intentions but bungles the responsibility of looking after/guiding his sister's son and is responsible for his fall to the DS.

- Rey finds out this news and in tandem with her own abandonment issues, it causes a rift between her and Luke and opens her up to Ben/Kylo.

I never bought any of the "Luke killed Rey's parents" speculation because it just seemed like the most logical and elegant answer to what happened at Uncle Luke's Bible Camp was that Uncle Luke hurt his nephew badly and it damages Rey's hero worship/shakes her idealistic belief in family.
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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by Kylo Men on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 7:15 pm

I didn't think Hamill was very good.

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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by Kylo Men on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 7:19 pm

The right message for Luke to Kylo was "You want everyone to give up on you but I'm not going to make it that easy for you."

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Re: Discussion: Luke Skywalker in TLJ

Post by reylo1992 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 7:28 pm

@ZioRen wrote:I can't stop laughing at this post. Laughing Oh Luke, I know it's more complicated than that but still


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@ZioRen

I get why so many fanboys got mad with his characterization lol!

To be fair, I found the explanation short. I hope that Force Ghost Luke will be back to give Rey a full explanation with extensive context. Please, J.J. bounce bounce bounce
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reylo1992
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

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