Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

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Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 11:34 pm

Beware movie spoilers.
Reply below to get started.
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by AngryDragonPuppy on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 1:29 am

All I can say is we had a or still have a cliff scene
but now we have an ELEVATOR Scene
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by BenSoloLives on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 9:39 am

I think they may already be working together on the Supremacy.
Like they've already teamed up.
I also think it might end badly for one or both of them and it will be part of the cliff hanger ending that we know will happen.
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:41 pm

Do you guys really believe that Snoke created the force bond? Didn't it exist before TFA to an extent even? Like how did Kylo Ren know there was "a girl" ("Girl?! What girl?!"). Was Snoke just using that "I created the forcebond" to manipulate Kylo in that scene? That's what I think.

Also, I can't believe we didn't get more of a backstory with Snoke. I'm disappointed. Disney shouldn't assume people will read the books to find out more. Some will, most probably won't. Like nothing on him, then he's dead. Ehem
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by LadyHa on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:56 pm

@SheLitAFire wrote:Do you guys really believe that Snoke created the force bond? Didn't it exist before TFA to an extent even? Like how did Kylo Ren know there was "a girl" ("Girl?! What girl?!"). Was Snoke just using that "I created the forcebond" to manipulate Kylo in that scene? That's what I think.

Also, I can't believe we didn't get more of a backstory with Snoke. I'm disappointed. Disney shouldn't assume people will read the books to find out more. Some will, most probably won't. Like nothing on him, then he's dead. Ehem
@SheLitAFire

I think that it's unclear at this point, but since Snoke clearly didn't get what Ben was truly thinking, his assertions are pretty suspect. Whether or not he nudged them together, he clearly lost control of it.

I personally am fine with this being enough Snoke story. I found him truly chilling and creepy during this scene. It was one of the few "feels" I got while watching this film. I think that knowing more about his manipulation of Ben might get really nasty, so I am good with keeping it unspoken.
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by Kessel on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:05 pm

@LadyHa wrote:
@SheLitAFire wrote:Do you guys really believe that Snoke created the force bond? Didn't it exist before TFA to an extent even? Like how did Kylo Ren know there was "a girl" ("Girl?! What girl?!"). Was Snoke just using that "I created the forcebond" to manipulate Kylo in that scene? That's what I think.

Also, I can't believe we didn't get more of a backstory with Snoke. I'm disappointed. Disney shouldn't assume people will read the books to find out more. Some will, most probably won't. Like nothing on him, then he's dead. Ehem
@SheLitAFire

I think that it's unclear at this point, but since Snoke clearly didn't get what Ben was truly thinking, his assertions are pretty suspect. Whether or not he nudged them together, he clearly lost control of it.

I personally am fine with this being enough Snoke story.  I found him truly chilling and creepy during this scene.  It was one of the few "feels" I got while watching this film.  I think that knowing more about his manipulation of Ben might get really nasty, so I am good with keeping it unspoken.
@LadyHa

I don't know if Snoke manufactured the bond... I suppose it's not impossible (after he sensed Kylo's compassion for her)? However, what would be the point? Another test? Just to toy with Kylo?

I rather doubt he created the bond because it looked like it continued after he died (when Rey shut the MF door). I think Snoke may have sensed the bond and was trying to manipulate Kylo by saying he'd created it.  It's rather ironic that when Snoke felt Kylo's resolve to kill who he assumed was Rey, he was actually feeling Kylo's resolve to kill him.

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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by snufkin on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:09 pm

Snoke's bullshitting somewhat. Because the bond happened between the two of them the first time he tried to read her mind. Snoke likely picked up on that and then tried to amplify the connection. But it's between the two of them, not because of his manipulations.

So the paralleling to the ESB scene. She's the "Awakening" because Snoke somehow knew that an equal in the Light would eventually appear. So Han was a test to see if he could go through eventually with killing this equal. Except that killing Han was also a test, he wouldn't make the same mistake twice and saved her. Except that he's greedy and loses Rey because he can't let go of his adolescent power fantasies. He's truthful when he tells her that she's Everything to him, except that she really isn't if he can't let go of the other stuff (so makes him Leia's kid).
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:13 pm

I wonder how long Kylo's been able to sense Rey before TFA. Or how did he know about "a girl"? Why did that pique his interest? ::sigh:: I wanted more lore.
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:07 pm

@snufkin wrote:Snoke's bullshitting somewhat. Because the bond happened between the two of them the first time he tried to read her mind. Snoke likely picked up on that and then tried to amplify the connection. But it's between the two of them, not because of his manipulations.

So the paralleling to the ESB scene. She's the "Awakening" because Snoke somehow knew that an equal in the Light would eventually appear. So Han was a test to see if he could go through eventually with killing this equal. Except that killing Han was also a test, he wouldn't make the same mistake twice and saved her. Except that he's greedy and loses Rey because he can't let go of his adolescent power fantasies. He's truthful when he tells her that she's Everything to him, except that she really isn't if he can't let go of the other stuff (so makes him Leia's kid).
@snufkin

LMAO, I love this so much. It's so true and it's so messy. I feel like the movie makes us feel all these things at the same time, which can be a bit too much. I'm not joking, my mind was a complete blue screen of death after I watched it.
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Re: Discussion: The Throne Room & Snoke's Agenda?

Post by snufkin on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:51 pm

@Piper Maru - I stayed away from here and spoilers but had forewarning from another forum member about the general things to expect. So I probably had less of a shock to the system than you did.

That scene is so sad because it's right after their moment of Rose's line about winning means fighting to save who you love, not destroying what you hate. They were at their best fighting at each other's sides as a team and Ben was able to learn from his past mistakes in protecting somebody he loved from Snoke. And then proceeds to breaks her heart and she breaks his heart in return. Because neither one of them can let go of their ambitions to a cause greater than themselves. Which the shared vision has each of them convinced the other will join their cause. And he was so close - but blew it by framing it as how she's nothing, but she can be everything in ruling the galaxy with her.
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