Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

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Post by rawpowah on Sun 10 Dec 2017, 11:58 pm

The Luke part sounds like crazy Force mumbo jumbo that we need to see with our own eyes to figure out. Is a projection the same thing as a real person?
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 10 Dec 2017, 11:58 pm

@special_cases wrote:
BOYEGA It reminds me, as a guy, of the transition from a boy to a man, learning how to maintain a certain type of energy that you have and choosing the way you let it free. That’s what he struggles with.
Well, to be fair, you can read it as transition from "Snoke's tool" to "I am The Order"

Makes stakes pretty big for the last film (if they do not split episode). Kylo is already trying to rule the Galaxy, in the end they rule together or Rey mirrors Amidala.

I'm just speculating, of course.
@special_cases

Until I see the movie, I won't believe in Renperor/Renperess scenario as ultimate outcome of the trilogy. That would be really a strange message in a Disney movie.

Even the Renperor scenario makes me sceptical. Like I've written, I've seen the different hint at Kylo's rise to power, including this idea that "he is not Vader yet", suggesting that he could. But I was rather thinking that this kind of scenario would work with an interesting arc between he and Snoke. I will be happy with any good scenario but the idea of getting rid of Snoke that easily although the guy targeted the child for his huge agenda from his birth seems a little to easy. And if Kylo remains by the FO side from his own will, I ask myself where does it leave us regarding his redemption scratch
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Post by whisperingwillow on Sun 10 Dec 2017, 11:58 pm

I swear I read somewhere the end would cause a lot of debate but also the leaks have said Luke is drained of life pretty much so it seems more likely Kylo simply outlasts Luke since Luke is projecting himself through the force.

As I said earlier in the thread this doesn’t surprise me if true because I didn’t think in the second act of this trilogy Rey was going to knock him off his path. But he obviously wanted Rey to be with him it seems but is unwilling to walk away from what he is doing right now.

If true when Rian said there was romantic drama he wasn’t kidding. This is the definition of it.
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Post by Guest on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:02 am

I can’t buy Kylo killing Luke. Maybe I’m just in denial but it doesn’t ring true. Adam Driver was almost sick over knowing that Kylo killed Han in TFA, he said he nearly threw up at the premiere. But he seems to not only have watched TLJ multiple times but also enjoyed it. Wouldn’t he have been a nervous wreck again knowing Kylo kills Luke, given how much people were looking forward to having him in an active role this time around? I know Adam is an actor, and maybe after the reaction to killing Han, it doesn’t bother him so much now. I don’t know, he seems like a pretty angsty and sensitive guy, something just doesn’t add up here.

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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:02 am

@whisperingwillow wrote:I swear I read somewhere the end would cause a lot of debate but also the leaks have said Luke is drained of life pretty much so it seems more likely Kylo simply outlasts Luke since Luke is projecting himself through the force.

As I said earlier in the thread this doesn’t surprise me if true because I didn’t think in the second act of this trilogy Rey was going to knock him off his path. But he obviously wanted Rey to be with him it seems but is unwilling to walk away from what he is doing right now.

If true when Rian said there was romantic drama he wasn’t kidding. This is the definition of it.
@whisperingwillow

Well, i was rather thinking that romantic drama was about some external factor preventing them from being together but who knows. After all, "this is not going to go the way you think", so...
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:02 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Kylo and Rey fighting the guards together and then killing Snoke is real, according to these leaks. Kylo asks Rey to join him after that (which is no doubt the hand reaching scene) and she refuses.

Yes I also really REALLY hope Kylo isn't the one who kills Luke. That's just yikes and quite a lot of overkill.
@ZioRen

I hope that's not real- with Snoke gone, Kylo will be the Villain for IX (unless there is someone behind Snoke- but I truly doubt that) ... not something I'm looking forward to.  No
@Night Huntress

If the leaks are true, that's indeed what they're setting up. Which gives me a lot of 'ultimate sacrifice' vibes for Kylo's potential redemption. That would be so disappointing. Or it could mean that Snoke reemerges, not actually dead even if they think he was. I doubt Luke is actually dead either.

I can definitely see why antis will have ample reason to celebrate. If this is true, it's going to be a hard next two years, even if Reylo romantic feelings aren't subtle!
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Post by special_cases on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:03 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
@special_cases wrote:
BOYEGA It reminds me, as a guy, of the transition from a boy to a man, learning how to maintain a certain type of energy that you have and choosing the way you let it free. That’s what he struggles with.
Well, to be fair, you can read it as transition from "Snoke's tool" to "I am The Order"

Makes stakes pretty big for the last film (if they do not split episode). Kylo is already trying to rule the Galaxy, in the end they rule together or Rey mirrors Amidala.

I'm just speculating, of course.
@special_cases

Until I see the movie, I won't believe in Renperor/Renperess scenario as ultimate outcome of the trilogy. That would be really a strange message in a Disney movie.

Even the Renperor scenario makes me sceptical. Like I've written, I've seen the different hint at Kylo's rise to power, including this idea that "he is not Vader yet", suggesting that he could. But I was rather thinking that this kind of scenario would work with an interesting arc between he and Snoke. I will be happy with any good scenario but the idea of getting rid of Snoke that easily although the guy targeted the child for his huge agenda from his birth seems a little to easy. And if Kylo remains by the FO side from his own will, I ask myself where does it leave us regarding his redemption scratch
@reylo1992

I mostly agree, I personally don't think they are going in that direction. But who knows...
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:04 am

I'm still not convinced they're going to emphasize the "Snoke manipulated Ben Solo since birth" aspect. If they address it at all.
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Post by Saracene on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:05 am

Kylo killing Snoke would definitely be a "I can't believe they did it" moment, but if the movie is not delving much into Snoke, is it going to be, goodbye Supreme Leader Snoke, we hardly knew you? Seems weird.
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Post by special_cases on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:06 am

KrazyForKylo wrote:I can’t buy Kylo killing Luke. Maybe I’m just in denial but it doesn’t ring true. Adam Driver was almost sick over knowing that Kylo killed Han in TFA, he said he nearly threw up at the premiere. But he seems to not only have watched TLJ multiple times but also enjoyed it. Wouldn’t he have been a nervous wreck again knowing Kylo kills Luke, given how much people were looking forward to having him in an active role this time around? I know Adam is an actor, and maybe after the reaction to killing Han, it doesn’t bother him so much now. I don’t know, he seems like a pretty angsty and sensitive guy, something just doesn’t add up here.
@KrazyForKylo

No, Kylo does not kill Luke. Luke dies because he can't keep up to be in 2 places and he does not "have" enough Force. It's more like choice by Luke himself.


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Post by rawpowah on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:07 am

@reylo1992 wrote:
@special_cases wrote:
BOYEGA It reminds me, as a guy, of the transition from a boy to a man, learning how to maintain a certain type of energy that you have and choosing the way you let it free. That’s what he struggles with.
Well, to be fair, you can read it as transition from "Snoke's tool" to "I am The Order"

Makes stakes pretty big for the last film (if they do not split episode). Kylo is already trying to rule the Galaxy, in the end they rule together or Rey mirrors Amidala.

I'm just speculating, of course.
@special_cases

Until I see the movie, I won't believe in Renperor/Renperess scenario as ultimate outcome of the trilogy. That would be really a strange message in a Disney movie.

Even the Renperor scenario makes me sceptical. Like I've written, I've seen the different hint at Kylo's rise to power, including this idea that "he is not Vader yet", suggesting that he could. But I was rather thinking that this kind of scenario would work with an interesting arc between he and Snoke. I will be happy with any good scenario but the idea of getting rid of Snoke that easily although the guy targeted the child for his huge agenda from his birth seems a little to easy. And if Kylo remains by the FO side from his own will, I ask myself where does it leave us regarding his redemption scratch
@reylo1992

Well, who knows. Maybe he achieves what Vader couldn't do (rule the galaxy) but gives it all up in the end to be with Rey. Or maybe they rule the Galaxy and bring balance to the force somehow. We'll have to see 8 to figure out what might happen in 9.

The only other alternative is Rey killing him in the end, but that would be predictable and tragic for both because of their bond. Not to mention he's the only Skywalker left, so killing him off means closing the doors to future saga films in 10 or 20 years time.
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Post by Sacrebleu on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:07 am

@snufkin wrote:Public Service Announcement from somebody who's worked as a research librarian - all of these 'leaks' and 'spoilers' are a case study for how disinformation gets spread because people want to believe (or get insider information) so badly. Just because it's on the Internet and sounds good, doesn't mean s**t. Do yourselves a favor and just chill the f**k out until Tuesday-Wednesday when long time and trusted members of this forum see the movie and can then can share their opinions in spoiler tags and PMs. The community here is far more sensible and mature versus getting some random information from elsewhere that hasn't been vetted. Everything posted here from Reddit or Tumblr looks like what my cat would drag into the house.

Also just go read the New York Times group interview, okay? And look at what Oscar Isaac and John Boyega had to say in praising/expressing envy over getting a role like Kylo/Ben.

Is there a character, other than your own, that you wish you’d gotten to play in this film?

ISAAC What Adam does in this movie is insane. It’s incredible. [Mr. Driver begins looking around awkwardly, as if searching for a way to escape the room.] It’s so wild and unpredictable and very magnetic. It made me very jealous.

BOYEGA I have to second that. I was blown away by the conflict and the change in the character arc. And the fights.

ISAAC Oh, the fights. The beautiful fights.

BOYEGA It reminds me, as a guy, of the transition from a boy to a man, learning how to maintain a certain type of energy that you have and choosing the way you let it free. That’s what he struggles with.

So are you going to believe somebody from Reddit or Tumblr you don't know because you're impatient? Versus those of us here who know/trust each other and who are patient and smart/sensible? Or better yet, the words of two of the cast members, one of whom is an old friend and neighbor of the person playing that character? Oh and also just delivered what's been called the definitive version of Hamlet for our time. I get the impatience and the crush of lurkers is because people are running around hoping somebody has something. But the truth is that nobody has anything, so just try to relax because it's very very soon now.
@snufkin

This is such a great post. I feel like I fell into a trap of my own making. I thought I was too nervous to go spoiler free, but I think it's actually been more nerve wracking to read all this stuff and not know what's real and what isn't. Much worse than had I completely avoided any spoilers and waited it out in the dark. Come to think of it, that's what I did for TFA and RO and I enjoyed both immensely. I'm really hoping now that I haven't shot myself in the foot.
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:07 am

If Renperor is true, would make sense why Leia's role was supposed to be big, also if the Resistance is gone. Not sure where this leaves Kylo now. He's the last Skywalker and Episode IX might be the end of Skywalkers.

Something is nor right here with this scenario. Fishy.


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Post by nite0wl29 on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:08 am

KrazyForKylo wrote:I can’t buy Kylo killing Luke. Maybe I’m just in denial but it doesn’t ring true. Adam Driver was almost sick over knowing that Kylo killed Han in TFA, he said he nearly threw up at the premiere. But he seems to not only have watched TLJ multiple times but also enjoyed it. Wouldn’t he have been a nervous wreck again knowing Kylo kills Luke, given how much people were looking forward to having him in an active role this time around? I know Adam is an actor, and maybe after the reaction to killing Han, it doesn’t bother him so much now. I don’t know, he seems like a pretty angsty and sensitive guy, something just doesn’t add up here.
@KrazyForKylo

I agree. People wouldn't be praising Kylo's arc if he killed Luke. I'm still calling BS to this "leak"
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:08 am

@ZioRen wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Kylo and Rey fighting the guards together and then killing Snoke is real, according to these leaks. Kylo asks Rey to join him after that (which is no doubt the hand reaching scene) and she refuses.

Yes I also really REALLY hope Kylo isn't the one who kills Luke. That's just yikes and quite a lot of overkill.
@ZioRen

I hope that's not real- with Snoke gone, Kylo will be the Villain for IX (unless there is someone behind Snoke- but I truly doubt that) ... not something I'm looking forward to.  No
@Night Huntress

If the leaks are true, that's indeed what they're setting up. Which gives me a lot of 'ultimate sacrifice' vibes for Kylo's potential redemption. That would be so disappointing. Or it could mean that Snoke reemerges, not actually dead even if they think he was. I doubt Luke is actually dead either.

I can definitely see why antis will have ample reason to celebrate. If this is true, it's going to be a hard next two years, even if Reylo romantic feelings aren't subtle!
@ZioRen

Honestly, until I see it in the theaters, I buy neither Snoke nor Luke's death. IMO Snoke is supposed to be the main villain of that story. I don't see how Luke or Kylo would become the main villain. And I don't see either what Luke's death would bring. I mean, the Resistance has been searching for him an entire movie and will obviously need the entire second movie to bring him back to help. If Luke is killed on Crait, that means that he won't have helped much and we basically spent two movies searching for him for nothing.

Anyway, given the bingo I filled, I think there is no middle ground: either I am almost completely right about my predictions... or I completely screw up Razz
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Post by Ynqve on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:08 am

@Saracene wrote:Kylo killing Snoke would definitely be a "I can't believe they did it" moment, but if the movie is not delving much into Snoke, is it going to be, goodbye Supreme Leader Snoke, we hardly knew you? Seems weird.
@Saracene

This. The emperor worked because they teased him for two movies and when he finally showed up he's so deliciously evil. Right now Snoke is an ugly dude in a bathrobe, imho Hux would be a more satisfying villain death than him at this point.
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Post by AcrosstheStars on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:12 am

The VD pages for Kylo said something to the effect of he was seeking revenge on Crait, and might get it, and then a second blurb about Crait said something like his emotions interfere with his tactical reasoning, didn’t it?

Letting Rey go would fit with the latter, but if Luke isn’t even physically ON Crait, how would Kylo know to storm the caves and find him to kill him? Or am I missing something? I guess it could just be talking about revenge on the Resistance. IA that Kylo killing Luke would be really, really bad for Reylo and Kylo himself, period. Now, Kylo outlasting Luke in a fight is one thing, but that’s from the Projection Luke leak and it just sounds so utterly ridiculous I can’t believe that anyway.

I still think at least a chunk of these leaks are from Mickey directly, intended to create enough confusion to hide the real info in plain sight when it does leak. Add in the attention hounds and the outright looney tunes trolls, and it’s like searching a needle in a haystack for real info.

And even with real info, everyone views movies through the lens of their own personality and experiences and preferences. If ambiguity is supposed to be what Rian was going for, that’s going to lead to vastly different interpretations of parts of the film, I would wager.
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:12 am

@Ynqve wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Kylo killing Snoke would definitely be a "I can't believe they did it" moment, but if the movie is not delving much into Snoke, is it going to be, goodbye Supreme Leader Snoke, we hardly knew you? Seems weird.
@Saracene

This. The emperor worked because they teased him for two movies and when he finally showed up he's so deliciously evil. Right now Snoke is an ugly dude in a bathrobe, imho Hux would be a more satisfying villain death than him at this point.
@Ynqve

Which brings the interesting question. Is Hux alive in this fanfic? Imagine the next day in work when he realize that Kylo is his boss. Talk about awkward meetings. Laughing
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Post by teltaru on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:13 am

Unbelievably, there are signs pointing to this stuff being true after all. I'm not sold though, not yet. Where is the story behind Ben's fall? Is he going to be on Crait the same time as Leia and not meet her in an emotional scene? The BTS reel pretty much confirmed they filmed scenes together. I think I've read every version of this leak including the Reylo shippers' one and none of them discuss these plot points. Also, this is my personal opinion, but how do all those cheery reactions line up with Luke freaking Skywalker dying in the end? Confusing.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:14 am

@Saracene wrote:Kylo killing Snoke would definitely be a "I can't believe they did it" moment, but if the movie is not delving much into Snoke, is it going to be, goodbye Supreme Leader Snoke, we hardly knew you? Seems weird.
@Saracene
And Andy Serkis had this to say:

“He’s definitely not a Sith, but he’s certainly at the darker end of the Force. Without giving too much away, that begins to unfold a little in this one.”
@teltaru wrote:Unbelievably, there are signs pointing to this stuff being true after all. I'm not sold though, not yet. Where is the story behind Ben's fall? Is he going to be on Crait the same time as Leia and not meet her in an emotional scene? The BTS reel pretty much confirmed they filmed scenes together. I think I've read every version of this leak including the Reylo shippers' one and none of them discuss these plot points. Also, this is my personal opinion, but how do all those cheery reactions line up with Luke freaking Skywalker dying in the end? Confusing.
@teltaru
There are zero signs pointing to Luke becoming a flipping hologram and fighting Kylo across space being true. The problem is everything has become a mess of various fanfictions combined with reaction interpretations.
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Post by Ynqve on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:17 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:
@Saracene wrote:Kylo killing Snoke would definitely be a "I can't believe they did it" moment, but if the movie is not delving much into Snoke, is it going to be, goodbye Supreme Leader Snoke, we hardly knew you? Seems weird.
@Saracene

This. The emperor worked because they teased him for two movies and when he finally showed up he's so deliciously evil. Right now Snoke is an ugly dude in a bathrobe, imho Hux would be a more satisfying villain death than him at this point.
@Ynqve

Which brings the interesting question. Is Hux alive in this fanfic? Imagine the next day in work when he realize that Kylo is his boss. Talk about awkward meetings. Laughing
@DarthRen

I hope so. It would make an awesome office comedy haha
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:18 am

@DarthRen wrote:If Renperor is true, would make sense why Leia's role was supposed to be big, also if the Resistance is gone. Not sure where this leaves Kylo now. He's the last Skywalker and Episode IX might be the end of Skywalkers.

Something is nor right here with this scenario. Fishy.
@DarthRen

Yes, I can see for sure where they wanted to insert Leia into this narrative in IX. I wonder what they plan to do now. Maybe the entirety of 'knock some sense into Kylo' will fall on Rey now.
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Post by grimbergen on Mon 11 Dec 2017, 12:19 am

After reading I dared to watch those spoilers. They are not as bad as I thought.
here it is not said that Kylo kills Luke but the way he dies is strange. That Kylo finale I do not like. If it's true the antis will be saying another two years that they were right about him being the big bad guy.


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