The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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Post by Moonjump05 on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:00 pm

Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions. I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him. But I am certainly in the minority about that.
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Post by EchoBase on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:01 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:I’ve just seen the film. I need a hug. Very badly.

First of all I will read all your reviews before posting my personal opinion, because right now I’m just being too emotional.
@EchoBase

*HUGS*

This movie has been very polarizing for us Reylos.

But it isn't so bleak at all. There's still hope.
@Rei of Sunshine

Thank you Cry
It's not because of Reylo. For me Reylo doesn't have to be romantic.
I've expected so much more from the force bond. And i thought Reylo was very obvious in TLJ. If you ask my husband, he will say that Rey has a crush on Kylo, but he just wants her power to be his ally Shocked
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:05 pm

@EchoBase wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:I’ve just seen the film. I need a hug. Very badly.

First of all I will read all your reviews before posting my personal opinion, because right now I’m just being too emotional.
@EchoBase

Hug good or hug bad? Just give a short review.
@vaderito

I am sobbing because "my childhood hero died!"

I can live with Renperor, if it's well made. But I need my conflicted villain after all.

The Kylo/Rey sevens were so overwhelming, funny and full of tension (erotic telepathy anyone?) they could have go on with this forever, but Rey's decision to save "Ben Solo" came a bit too fast? I don't know. And somehow I missed the grey areas and where was all that raw powah? Oh right, they destroyed Luke's saber.

The beautiful beautiful force bond. It started out so promising and then it was all fake??? Or does it still exist?

Rey's character...am I the only one who thinks she was a bit sidelined? I really saw no development at all. She should have taken his damn hand and ruled with him over the galaxy. That would have been a twist.

Like I said, I am really too emotional and confused right now. I have too many questions, I don't know where to start.

And I watched the fricking dubbed version. I will watch again tomorrow in OV. Maybe then I'll have a clearer perspective.
@EchoBase

Reylo1992 said that Rey's insistence to save Ben Solo right away may have come from her own loneliness. That she 'fell inlove' with him way too fast because she's lonely and finally had this strange but intimate connection with someone. Someone whom she saw had a great future with her in the Resistance. Maybe she tried to pull into this belonging way too soon, and realizing that people don't change the way you want them to right away. And she gets heartbroken in the end and leaves him.

The Forcebond is real. They formed it on their own. Snoke merely saw it within Kylo and utilized it to bait Rey.

I feel that while Rey was a protagonist, she felt sidelined because everyone had a share of the spotlight which annoyed me. The depth of her story though is shared with the forcebond. The Forcebond was basically a plot device to develop Rey and Kylo. They both saw they have a future with each other but not in the same way. Kylo sees what he wants to see and Rey sees what she wants to see. If only the film didn't focus too much on the resistance plot, Forcebond Plot would've been better.

I think Rey made some pretty polarizing decisions here. Good Bad and Grey.

And I also think that we all feel this way because Empire was also polarizing. Not everyone loved it right away. TLJ actually has more emotional weight than ESB, but ESB had more Force lore advantage.
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Post by EchoBase on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:07 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:I’ve just seen the film. I need a hug. Very badly.

First of all I will read all your reviews before posting my personal opinion, because right now I’m just being too emotional.
@EchoBase

Hug good or hug bad? Just give a short review.
@vaderito

I am sobbing because "my childhood hero died!"

I can live with Renperor, if it's well made. But I need my conflicted villain after all.

The Kylo/Rey sevens were so overwhelming, funny and full of tension (erotic telepathy anyone?) they could have go on with this forever, but Rey's decision to save "Ben Solo" came a bit too fast? I don't know. And somehow I missed the grey areas and where was all that raw powah? Oh right, they destroyed Luke's saber.

The beautiful beautiful force bond. It started out so promising and then it was all fake??? Or does it still exist?

Rey's character...am I the only one who thinks she was a bit sidelined? I really saw no development at all. She should have taken his damn hand and ruled with him over the galaxy. That would have been a twist.

Like I said, I am really too emotional and confused right now. I have too many questions, I don't know where to start.

And I watched the fricking dubbed version. I will watch again tomorrow in OV. Maybe then I'll have a clearer perspective.
@EchoBase

Reylo1992 said that Rey's insistence to save Ben Solo right away may have come from her own loneliness. That she 'fell inlove' with him way too fast because she's lonely and finally had this strange but intimate connection with someone. Someone whom she saw had a great future with her in the Resistance. Maybe she tried to pull into this belonging way too soon, and realizing that people don't change the way you want them to right away. And she gets heartbroken in the end and leaves him.

The Forcebond is real. They formed it on their own. Snoke merely saw it within Kylo and utilized it to bait Rey.

I feel that while Rey was a protagonist, she felt sidelined because everyone had a share of the spotlight which annoyed me. The depth of her story though is shared with the forcebond. The Forcebond was basically a plot device to develop Rey and Kylo. They both saw they have a future with each other but not in the same way. Kylo sees what he wants to see and Rey sees what she wants to see. If only the film didn't focus too much on the resistance plot, Forcebond Plot would've been better.

I think Rey made some pretty polarizing decisions here. Good Bad and Grey.

And I also think that we all feel this way because Empire was also polarizing. Not everyone loved it right away. TLJ actually has more emotional weight than ESB, but ESB had more Force lore advantage.
@Rei of Sunshine

That's why I don't want to say that I hate the movie. I will have to see it a few more times (I booked three more screenings in advance). These are just my first impressions.

So the last scene of Rey and Kylo, did he really see her on the falcon? Or did he see her through the force bond?

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Post by unicorn on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:12 pm

Back from midnight premiere: I liked it very well, especially of course the reylo scenes.  You see that they obviously care for each other, unless you are blind and deaf. And of course AD shirtless, hahaha. But I´m really worried if this ends well for them both. Neutral
Luke´s death scene was great and I found it totaly NOT sad, what surprised me. Normally, I´m a total crybaby. I cry for joy, for sadness, everything.
Overall, I thought I would be emotionally far more engaged. I don´t know. TFA gave me more chills. Perhaps because ist was the first new SW movie after a long time...
Also positive: my fanboy colleague disliked the movie - what a surprise!
Sadly Leia´s rescue with the force was far too cheesy for my taste. It looked like superman flying trough the air.

I will watch the OV probably next week. The german dubbing ruines it always a bit for me.

have to go to bed, i´ts 4:00 AM here. Laughing


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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 9:13 pm

@EchoBase wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:I’ve just seen the film. I need a hug. Very badly.

First of all I will read all your reviews before posting my personal opinion, because right now I’m just being too emotional.
@EchoBase

Hug good or hug bad? Just give a short review.
@vaderito

I am sobbing because "my childhood hero died!"

I can live with Renperor, if it's well made. But I need my conflicted villain after all.

The Kylo/Rey sevens were so overwhelming, funny and full of tension (erotic telepathy anyone?) they could have go on with this forever, but Rey's decision to save "Ben Solo" came a bit too fast? I don't know. And somehow I missed the grey areas and where was all that raw powah? Oh right, they destroyed Luke's saber.

The beautiful beautiful force bond. It started out so promising and then it was all fake??? Or does it still exist?

Rey's character...am I the only one who thinks she was a bit sidelined? I really saw no development at all. She should have taken his damn hand and ruled with him over the galaxy. That would have been a twist.

Like I said, I am really too emotional and confused right now. I have too many questions, I don't know where to start.

And I watched the fricking dubbed version. I will watch again tomorrow in OV. Maybe then I'll have a clearer perspective.
@EchoBase

Reylo1992 said that Rey's insistence to save Ben Solo right away may have come from her own loneliness. That she 'fell inlove' with him way too fast because she's lonely and finally had this strange but intimate connection with someone. Someone whom she saw had a great future with her in the Resistance. Maybe she tried to pull into this belonging way too soon, and realizing that people don't change the way you want them to right away. And she gets heartbroken in the end and leaves him.

The Forcebond is real. They formed it on their own. Snoke merely saw it within Kylo and utilized it to bait Rey.

I feel that while Rey was a protagonist, she felt sidelined because everyone had a share of the spotlight which annoyed me. The depth of her story though is shared with the forcebond. The Forcebond was basically a plot device to develop Rey and Kylo. They both saw they have a future with each other but not in the same way. Kylo sees what he wants to see and Rey sees what she wants to see. If only the film didn't focus too much on the resistance plot, Forcebond Plot would've been better.

I think Rey made some pretty polarizing decisions here. Good Bad and Grey.

And I also think that we all feel this way because Empire was also polarizing. Not everyone loved it right away. TLJ actually has more emotional weight than ESB, but ESB had more Force lore advantage.
@Rei of Sunshine

That's why I don't want to say that I hate the movie. I will have to see it a few more times (I booked three more screenings in advance). These are just my first impressions.

So the last scene of Rey and Kylo, did he really see her on the falcon? Or did he see her through the force bond?

@EchoBase

Forcebond. The Falcon was way out on the valley and Kylo was in the base. Rey literally and figuratively shut the door on him after his half assed proposal to her. hahah

I'll be watching it again as well...maybe 2 more times tk really absorb it
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:35 am

@ALL: don't apologize for your feelings and personal perception.

And don't give up.... I remember how much I disliked TFA at first. Really I thought it was rubbish. - And I didn't have high expectations back then.
I changed my mind after letting my feelings settle and watching it several times without being overly emotional.
I still think it has many flaws- too much mysterybox and unfortunately TLJ didn't do as good a job solving them as we would've liked.

I will write my own review in a few hours- but I'm glad I read all your opinions first because my expectations aren't that high now. I'm still exited and looking forward to- but I'm not so afraid of being disappointed after.
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:41 am

Hi Everyone,
I've been reading all your reactions.. I've seen the movie for the first time a few hours ago myself.
It was very dense and fast paced and I think I might need a year to get my head around it all Smile
My first reaction is I have mixed feelings - I know this is the second part in a three part story - which makes it tough...
I loved it.. but it's tinged with sadness and a little disappointment at not having some questions more clearly answered.. but then.. if this is 2/3 - I guess there still needs to be mysteries and plot to unfold.
so much angst for Reylo - and the ending really leaves things up in the air between them. Ugh... it's tough..
I think once the ST is finished, I'll be able to look back on TLJ and enjoy it more!
Before then, I think soon I'll be able to move beyond the emotional reaction to it, and explore what is ahead for Reylo - the logical part of my brain right now is saying - story wise renperor is epic... and I cannot wait for the next time they meet again!!!!! The scenarios are bouncing around like crazy!! Smile but at the same time, my emotional part of my brain is heartbroken at how things have turned out at the end of movie 2 for Rey and Kylo.

I've seen reactions that Rey sides with Kylo too quickly (sorry to paraphrase)..
I think the connection between Rey and Kylo explains how quickly she accepted his story and committed to visiting Kylo.
She had seen the vision of Kylo [I think she actually calls him Ben at this point] - joining her. Does she say 'joining her side' or 'joining the resistance'? this may be significant..
Interesting that Kylo saw a different version - her joining him or his side. And I think here we see a hint of his motivations.. though it is quite vague I'll admit I can see this too!
Snoke says he gave them the bond to manipulate Rey because Kylo would be too weak otherwise to bring her to him.
I think this means Kylo had no idea and thought the bond was a genuine gift separate to Snoke.

I think Kylo's reaction to his vision gave a clue to his motivations - to defeat Snoke, and bring Rey to his side.
I didn't see Kylo lying to or deceiving Rey at all. [did you?]

If I've understood correctly.. it seems Snoke planted a tailored vision in Rey - and a tailored vision for Kylo so he could/would bring Rey to Snoke. [but - did the different visions also mean they will eventually be together - and they each assumed that meant the other would come to their own side?!]
What Snoke miscalculated was exactly what Rey said he did - he underestimated Kylo (does she call him 'Kylo' here when she says this line? i think so.] and Snoke underestimated her (she says he underestimated Luke also - who at this point is MIA. So rather generous of her IMHO Wink )
Snoke made a mistake! Plus, the bond gave both Rey and Kylo something they were both longing for.. and their connection made them stronger Smile Now that sounds like a message star wars would be making Smile

At least we know that bond still exists at the end of TLJ, though we did see Rey close it - is it temporarily or permanently closed?

I can't help but wonder is that all there is to Snoke?!
Does his life force survive somewhere else and will he be back in IX?
The way Luke manifested via the force elsewhere can't be what Snoke did - because Snoke's body was left there in pieces. Or.. was that not Snoke's body? Just one he used for a while? eek!
Snoke had lived for a 1000 years. It seemed too easy. I feel there should be some kind of force-centric way he had to be killed (like how the mummy had to be killed with unnatural means!). I guess I now have 2 years to wait and ponder. Gah. I could be way off base - but I see bringing balance to the force as the only way to truly stop Snoke. [I get ahead of myself.. speculating about IX already! Can we have an Episode IX section to the forum now? Smile ]

I think Kylo wanting power/ pursuing the resistance etc. made it very tough to see any light left in Kylo toward the end. It was very heartbreaking - the person I saw it with is certain he will not be reedeemed....Ugh!! Nooooo!!! His final state in the movie is very subtle - I see him reaching out to Rey with the bond - and not wanting to 'destroy her' as he had just told Luke he would, Okay- there Kylo was lying! - but then maybe I see that because it's what I want to see?  

A few more random thoughts before I outstay my welcome here... sorry just getting it all out Smile  

-I think Rey called Kylo 'Ben' - at least twice. I felt a thrill to hear that. I can't remember exactly where. I'll be taking note of this on my next viewing. In the elevator I think was one.. I was shocked that Kylo/Ben didn't seem to react when she said it. I thought that was rather telling Smile

-Ben took some former jedi students with him eh.. Knights of Ren being force users in IX is a go!!!!!!!!! Smile

- There were a couple of gags in awkward positions IMHO.. [Luke's wisecrack about how Leia had changed her hair being one of them] - took me out of the special moment. I could have done without that.. Yes the tone at times was a little off. but I was happy to move on and just enjoy the ride..

-Holdo was fabulous. I loved her arc. I can't see an arc for any character that I didn't like to be honest.. but the time for discussing this will be later..

-As if Hux and Kylo can work together with Kylo as ruler?! Why hasn't Kylo just killed him? hmmm.. he may actually need Hux for the army to listen. That is curious..

- loved Rose.. and much preferred Finn in TLJ. No more overacting Wink ahem..

-Kylo looked happy that he had not pulled the trigger on Leia.. just for a moment before it was all blown to shreds. No self recriminations at his weakness. I thought that was a great moment..

-What was with the all smiles introduction between Poe and Rey right at the very end? IMHO they are totally setting up the idea of them as a potential couple!!!!!!! Nooo!!!!! Okay.. I will label them a decoy couple. They won't really happen.. but it may give Kylo pains and tease at whether the main couple will get together in the end.. yep. those smiles between Poe and Rey were lingered on too long.. and were too big - made me uneasy. or errr is it just me?!

-I loved that Rey said no to Kylo's offer. What a flubbed proposal.. me thinks Kylo was not the super seducer via force bond - but he managed it any way through their real connection. I'm always happy to discuss Kylo- but I do hope Rey gets a time to shine. She's a fabulous character - she fought fought fought - and never despaired though it was tempting to for her no question.. She had her struggles.. but her faith and hope in Kylo never waivered while Snoke taunted her (IMHO of course). She showed great faith in the force too - very brave to take the escape pod to the FO like that all on her own and face Snoke. Wow. Very Brave woman!!! I was left wondering what she thought at the end of the movie.. has she given up on Kylo... I think it's intentionally ambiguous... thoughts everyone?

-Rey came from nobodies - saying no to Kylo showed she isn't reliant on him to be somebody. She isn't seeking belonging just anywhere!
She knew by then that she is somebody. I think it was a really big moment for her character.... proud of our Rey!
Kylo needs his humble on his knee before Rey as a man in love moment.. begging her to be his partner!!! Humility Kylo! Aie!

-Kylo almost stuttering his offer to join him was very touching. A contrast to his offer at the end of TFA and to me it was clear it was genuine - saying she was important to him was awesome. I loved that.. but err the emphasis on her nobody background in all this was way off the mark.
His feelings for her are not (yet) the selfless love needed to truly win her heart... [And he calls himself a Knight!]

The ambiguity between good and bad was woven throughout.. but I am confused with how Kylo views the first order at this stage.. it all seemed so personally driven for him. Even once he took over as Supreme Leader [I winced when Hux called him that Sad ] - it was still personal for Kylo - hunt down the resistance - wipe them and the jedi out..
What's next for him and the first order? It's all a hanging question mark..

-Also IMHO mixed messages about the state of the jedi. Yoda conveys it's good to move on from the old jedi texts.. but then Luke finishes by saying he will not be the last jedi. Holy smokes.. seems to me the state of the Jedi is still up in the air..
I can only guess at this stage this is some form of new jedi he has in mind (without the hubris he discussed earlier). And the ending with the little force user slave boy was fabulous.. just what will become of the force? the jedi? the balance? it's all still so unclear!

Kudos for reading this far..

Overall - I much prefer TLJ over TFA any day!!!! [now lets see if this will publish in it's entirety!]


Last edited by DeeBee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:45 am

@Moonjump05 wrote:Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions. I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him. But I am certainly in the minority about that.
@Moonjump05

I was fine with Luke's ending - and it leaves it open that he could return as a force ghost in IX.
Luke confronting Kylo was a fascinating scene. I must watch again! I was surprised at the tone that was chosen for it... I thought it would be more angst filled and regretful - am so glad that Luke apologised to Kylo.. Luke was humble. but he was also equally triumphant - it was an interesting mix. Like he was not giving Kylo an out - to me it conveyed that while Luke had some responsibility in Kylo's fall - Kylo is making his own choices, and he can choose better.. I wish I could access the dialogue.. but this is the general vibe I got - so while it was unexpected. I liked it.

People are mad about it are they?
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:51 am

@unicorn wrote:Back from midnight premiere: I liked it very well, especially of course the reylo scenes.  You see that they obviously care for each other, unless you are blind and deaf. And of course AD shirtless, hahaha. But I´m really worried if this ends well for them both. Neutral
Luke´s death scene was great and I found it totaly NOT sad, what surprised me. Normally, I´m a total crybaby. I cry for joy, for sadness, everything.
Overall, I thought I would be emotionally far more engaged. I don´t know. TFA gave me more chills. Perhaps because ist was the first new SW movie after a long time...
Also positive: my fanboy colleague disliked the movie - what a surprise!
Sadly Leia´s rescue with the force was far too cheesy for my taste. It looked like superman flying trough the air.

I will watch the OV probably next week. The german dubbing ruines it always a bit for me.

have to go to bed, i´ts 4:00 AM here. Laughing
@unicorn

Same here!! I thought it was uplifting.
Plus, I was so glad that Kylo didn't actually 'kill Luke' and that the ability to do that was taken away from him.
For a few reasons:
- If Kylo had killed Luke it would have been another thing to add to the 'Kylo can't be redeemed because...' pile!
- If Kylo had killed Luke, this could have furthered his descent into the depths - He would have gotten his long sought after vengence - but Luke took that away from him!! And in a way, he prevented that -in a strange way protecting Kylo (or should I say Ben?!)
- If Kylo is eventually redeemed it's one less thing to weight on his conscience. Smile
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Post by Moonjump05 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:55 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions. I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him. But I am certainly in the minority about that.
@Moonjump05

I was fine with Luke's ending - and it leaves it open that he could return as a force ghost in IX.
Luke confronting Kylo was a fascinating scene. I must watch again! I was surprised at the tone that was chosen for it... I thought it would be more angst filled and regretful - am so glad that Luke apologised to Kylo.. Luke was humble. but he was also equally triumphant - it was an interesting mix. Like he was not giving Kylo an out - to me it conveyed that while Luke had some responsibility in Kylo's fall - Kylo is making his own choices, and he can choose better.. I wish I could access the dialogue.. but this is the general vibe I got - so while it was unexpected. I liked it.

People are mad about it are they?
@DeeBee

Very, seeing people call it 'soul crushing' and I am like, it is a movie. But like I said, don't care about Luke overly.
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Post by Ynqve on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:21 am

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions.  I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him.  But I am certainly in the minority about that.
@Moonjump05

I was fine with Luke's ending - and it leaves it open that he could return as a force ghost in IX.
Luke confronting Kylo was a fascinating scene. I must watch again! I was surprised at the tone that was chosen for it... I thought it would be more angst filled and regretful - am so glad that Luke apologised to Kylo.. Luke was humble. but he was also equally triumphant - it was an interesting mix. Like he was not giving Kylo an out - to me it conveyed that while Luke had some responsibility in Kylo's fall - Kylo is making his own choices, and he can choose better.. I wish I could access the dialogue.. but this is the general vibe I got - so while it was unexpected. I liked it.

People are mad about it are they?
@DeeBee

Very, seeing people call it 'soul crushing' and I am like, it is a movie.  But like I said, don't care about Luke overly.
@Moonjump05

Imo the problem with Luke's story in TLJ is that the audience has to accept the premise or it won't work. I loved it, didn't find his ending depressing at all but even I'm struggling with Luke attempting to murder Ben in his sleep. The fact that Luke Skywalker, Jedi extraordinaire went so far as to ignite his lightsaber is a hard sell.

I can see why people are crushed by seeing their childhood hero attempting to murder his nephew and then spend most of the movie as a grumpy old man before he finally dies.
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:38 am

@Ynqve wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions.  I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him.  But I am certainly in the minority about that.
@Moonjump05

I was fine with Luke's ending - and it leaves it open that he could return as a force ghost in IX.
Luke confronting Kylo was a fascinating scene. I must watch again! I was surprised at the tone that was chosen for it... I thought it would be more angst filled and regretful - am so glad that Luke apologised to Kylo.. Luke was humble. but he was also equally triumphant - it was an interesting mix. Like he was not giving Kylo an out - to me it conveyed that while Luke had some responsibility in Kylo's fall - Kylo is making his own choices, and he can choose better.. I wish I could access the dialogue.. but this is the general vibe I got - so while it was unexpected. I liked it.

People are mad about it are they?
@DeeBee

Very, seeing people call it 'soul crushing' and I am like, it is a movie.  But like I said, don't care about Luke overly.
@Moonjump05

Imo the problem with Luke's story in TLJ is that the audience has to accept the premise or it won't work. I loved it, didn't find his ending depressing at all but even I'm struggling with Luke attempting to murder Ben in his sleep. The fact that Luke Skywalker, Jedi extraordinaire went so far as to ignite his lightsaber is a hard sell.

I can see why people are crushed by seeing their childhood hero attempting to murder his nephew and then spend most of the movie as a grumpy old man before he finally dies.
@Ynqve

Hi @Ynqve, really interesting to hear your take on things. I hadn't looked at it that way.
Oh Okay. interesting. I don't struggle with Luke trying to kill Ben in his sleep. Why don't I struggle with it?
I'll share my thinking that seems to have resulted in me being okay with it Smile [but, I humbly accept it's just my view and not telling anyone what to think]
I think it was an awful moment of weakness - but Luke would not have actually carried it out. [but Kylo didn't know that]
I can understand Luke's moment of weakness in the context of having experienced the evil of the emperor and being so anti the dark side of the force.. it was a bit like a traumatic response that suddenly arose in Luke..
And I think Luke felt the weight of his responsibility to protect the universe, stop darkness from rising.. yadda yadda..
Luke was not perfect, for a moment his fear got the better of him. I think it's an awful mistake, a tragic moment...

Story wise, I'm really glad we got to see Luke find his hope again (and to do that he had to initially lose it): It is very important that it was Luke at the end who was saying there is always hope for Kylo.
To me, Luke is still a hero - but he a flawed hero, which makes his heroic end in TLJ even more powerful and meaningful - there is a way back from our mistakes... I can related better to a flawed hero than to a Jedi Extraordinaire.
Just my thoughts...
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Post by Ynqve on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:47 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:Hmm, the Luke issue is probably where I am not accounting for bad reactions.  I am probably the most ambivalent fan about Luke and don't really care what they do with him.  But I am certainly in the minority about that.
@Moonjump05

I was fine with Luke's ending - and it leaves it open that he could return as a force ghost in IX.
Luke confronting Kylo was a fascinating scene. I must watch again! I was surprised at the tone that was chosen for it... I thought it would be more angst filled and regretful - am so glad that Luke apologised to Kylo.. Luke was humble. but he was also equally triumphant - it was an interesting mix. Like he was not giving Kylo an out - to me it conveyed that while Luke had some responsibility in Kylo's fall - Kylo is making his own choices, and he can choose better.. I wish I could access the dialogue.. but this is the general vibe I got - so while it was unexpected. I liked it.

People are mad about it are they?
@DeeBee

Very, seeing people call it 'soul crushing' and I am like, it is a movie.  But like I said, don't care about Luke overly.
@Moonjump05

Imo the problem with Luke's story in TLJ is that the audience has to accept the premise or it won't work. I loved it, didn't find his ending depressing at all but even I'm struggling with Luke attempting to murder Ben in his sleep. The fact that Luke Skywalker, Jedi extraordinaire went so far as to ignite his lightsaber is a hard sell.

I can see why people are crushed by seeing their childhood hero attempting to murder his nephew and then spend most of the movie as a grumpy old man before he finally dies.
@Ynqve

Hi @Ynqve, really interesting to hear your take on things. I hadn't looked at it that way.
Oh Okay. interesting. I don't struggle with Luke trying to kill Ben in his sleep. Why don't I struggle with it?
I'll share my thinking that seems to have resulted in me being okay with it Smile [but, I humbly accept it's just my view and not telling anyone what to think]
I think it was an awful moment of weakness - but Luke would not have actually carried it out. [but Kylo didn't know that]
I can understand Luke's moment of weakness in the context of having experienced the evil of the emperor and being so anti the dark side of the force.. it was a bit like a traumatic response that suddenly arose in Luke..
And I think Luke felt the weight of his responsibility to protect the universe, stop darkness from rising.. yadda yadda..
Luke was not perfect, for a moment his fear got the better of him. I think it's an awful mistake, a tragic moment...

Story wise, I'm really glad we got to see Luke find his hope again (and to do that he had to initially lose it): It is very important that it was Luke at the end who was saying there is always hope for Kylo.
To me, Luke is still a hero - but he a flawed hero, which makes his heroic end in TLJ even more powerful and meaningful - there is a way back from our mistakes... I can related better to a flawed hero than to a Jedi Extraordinaire.
Just my thoughts...
@DeeBee

I share your interpretation and I think that's how we're supposed to see it. But Luke Skywalker has been a hero for 40 years. When everyone else saw Darth Vader as a monster, Luke kept going on about how there was still good in him. This flawed version of Luke is very different from what we're used to.
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Post by cherrylipstick on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:01 am

@EchoBase wrote:
I've expected so much more from the force bond. And i thought Reylo was very obvious in TLJ. If you ask my husband, he will say that Rey has a crush on Kylo, but he just wants her power to be his ally Shocked
@EchoBase

Uh men Rolling Eyes ROFL  
Yeah he didn't feel anything for her and it was all made up... Kylo must be a good actor because his face, his eyes, even his lips indicated a huge attraction/crush IYF

Jokes aside honestly I'm not worried about Reylo because I think that now more than before, with all the scenes that we have seen in this movie, it's quite clear where they want to go with them and now I understand better why Rian said "romantic drama". They will be endgame, and their dynamic will be almost surely central even if complicated in the final movie. I honestly hope in a happyending, not necessarily a typical Disney ending with the princess and the prince happily married in their castle, but I would hate to see another tragic ending. Give them some happiness!!!! About to C


@DeeBee wrote:Hi Everyone,

-What was with the all smiles introduction between Poe and Rey right at the very end? IMHO they are totally setting up the idea of them as a potential couple!!!!!!! Nooo!!!!! Okay.. I will label them a decoy couple. They won't really happen.. but it may give Kylo pains and tease at whether the main couple will get together in the end.. yep. those smiles between Poe and Rey were lingered on too long.. and were too big - made me uneasy. or errr is it just me?!

@DeeBee

I didn't like it either, not because there was something really wrong with it, I mean it was just a warm greeting between two allies/friends, but I don't know I just had a weird feeling about it.
And I'm also afraid that some antis will use it to keep bashing reylo, now that most of them have lost their main weapon, Finn.

I hoped to be more enthusiast, like I was after the trailer, I really really really wanted to feel the same. But I don't want to say that I didn't like the movie, because it's not true and i'm sure that I will love it more in the future, I need some time to elaborate.
Like I said before my main problem with the movie is that I expected more answers and more development about certain elements of the story, those elements that really captured my interest in TFA (the force bond, Kylo's past, his relationship with Luke and Snoke, raw power...) and yes in the end the movie provided some answers but I found them a little too hasty. So I wasn't disappointed by what happened, because I was really open minded, but by how things happened.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:08 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:
@vaderito wrote:
@EchoBase wrote:I’ve just seen the film. I need a hug. Very badly.

First of all I will read all your reviews before posting my personal opinion, because right now I’m just being too emotional.
@EchoBase

Hug good or hug bad? Just give a short review.
@vaderito

I am sobbing because "my childhood hero died!"

I can live with Renperor, if it's well made. But I need my conflicted villain after all.

The Kylo/Rey sevens were so overwhelming, funny and full of tension (erotic telepathy anyone?) they could have go on with this forever, but Rey's decision to save "Ben Solo" came a bit too fast? I don't know. And somehow I missed the grey areas and where was all that raw powah? Oh right, they destroyed Luke's saber.

The beautiful beautiful force bond. It started out so promising and then it was all fake??? Or does it still exist?

Rey's character...am I the only one who thinks she was a bit sidelined? I really saw no development at all. She should have taken his damn hand and ruled with him over the galaxy. That would have been a twist.

Like I said, I am really too emotional and confused right now. I have too many questions, I don't know where to start.

And I watched the fricking dubbed version. I will watch again tomorrow in OV. Maybe then I'll have a clearer perspective.
@EchoBase

Reylo1992 said that Rey's insistence to save Ben Solo right away may have come from her own loneliness. That she 'fell inlove' with him way too fast because she's lonely and finally had this strange but intimate connection with someone. Someone whom she saw had a great future with her in the Resistance. Maybe she tried to pull into this belonging way too soon, and realizing that people don't change the way you want them to right away. And she gets heartbroken in the end and leaves him.

The Forcebond is real. They formed it on their own. Snoke merely saw it within Kylo and utilized it to bait Rey.

I feel that while Rey was a protagonist, she felt sidelined because everyone had a share of the spotlight  which annoyed me. The depth of her story though is shared with the forcebond. The Forcebond was basically a plot device to develop Rey and Kylo. They both saw they have a future with each other but not in the same way. Kylo sees what he wants to see and Rey sees what she wants to see. If only the film didn't focus too much on the resistance plot, Forcebond Plot would've been better.

I think Rey made some pretty polarizing decisions here. Good Bad and Grey.

And I also think that we all feel this way because Empire was also polarizing. Not everyone loved it right away. TLJ actually has more emotional weight than ESB, but ESB had more Force lore advantage.
@Rei of Sunshine

That's why I don't want to say that I hate the movie. I will have to see it a few more times (I booked three more screenings in advance). These are just my first impressions.

So the last scene of Rey and Kylo, did he really see her on the falcon? Or did he see her through the force bond?

@EchoBase

Forcebond. The Falcon was way out on the valley and Kylo was in the base. Rey literally  and figuratively shut the door on him after his half assed proposal to her. hahah

I'll be watching it again as well...maybe 2 more times tk really absorb it
@Rei of Sunshine

Just to tell you, I'am with both of you and @EchoBase on the same train of thoughts.

I'am still rethinking the movie. And need to re watch it ASAP.

Also, I'd like to add - maybe that's just my dinosaur age speaking but  let's just say I definitely needed more clarity.

I still don't get what's going on in the Mirror cave scene LOL

And not to speak about Poe and his "obsession" with saving the Raddus at all costs. It definitely felt like a filler.

Though I liked the parallel to the original Admiral Raddus and his sacrifice.

Aslo Ackabar is gone! How dare they to kill Ackbar!!!! I'll riot. Very Happy
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:27 am

I wonder if it might be a good idea to start a "complaints" thread about the film? Perhaps in Maz's Castle? Because I think there will probably be a small handful of others who are negative about the film, and I wouldn't want us to rain on everybody else's parade.

I still feel like I need some kind of a "grieving period", though it would probably be healthier to force myself to move on immediately.
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Post by Ynqve on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:37 am

@Meomeo wrote:Please anyone tell me about the Rey and Poe's hello, was it somewhat abnormal? At this rate I think Kylo will be dead by Rey's hands. But I just want her to stay single rather than have a sideway relationship for the sake of it.
@Meomeo

"Hi. I'm Poe"
"I'm Rey"
Smile.

That's it.
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Post by cherrylipstick on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:41 am

@Meomeo
I personally didn't see anything abnormal or wrong in it. Just two people greeting and smiling.
I didn't like it because it lasted a little too long and because I think that antis will stress about it, but I don't think that we have to worry.

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Post by Ynqve on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:50 am

@Meomeo wrote:
@Ynqve wrote:
@Meomeo wrote:Please anyone tell me about the Rey and Poe's hello, was it somewhat abnormal? At this rate I think Kylo will be dead by Rey's hands. But I just want her to stay single rather than have a sideway relationship for the sake of it.
@Meomeo

"Hi. I'm Poe"
"I'm Rey"
Smile.

That's it.
@Ynqve
What kind of smile though... lingering or just polite smile?
Tomorrow I will watch it but this makes me feel so uneasy. I don't know what to say... it's like some people jump on a board of pilot with the main protagonist so fast. I just hope they don't go for that.
@Meomeo

The "I may be a scavenger from Jakku but I still have basic social skills" kind of smile.

People are too paranoid about this. It's not as if they share a long lingering look and the Force Theme starts playing when their hands touch.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:50 am

POE IS GAY ASF. ARE WE REALLY WASTING OUR TIME ON THAT SCENE?
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Post by cherrylipstick on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:54 am

I think that those who don't like Kylo, and Rey and Kylo together would jump on any ship in order to sabotage Reylo. Even if it was crystal clear in the movie

@Maria Antonietta wrote:POE IS GAY ASF. ARE WE REALLY WASTING OUR TIME ON THAT SCENE?
@Maria Antonietta

ROFL ROFL  well said!
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:58 am

@cherrylipstick wrote:I think that those who don't like Kylo, and Rey and Kylo together would jump on any ship in order to sabotage Reylo. Even if it was crystal clear in the movie

@Maria Antonietta wrote:POE IS GAY ASF. ARE WE REALLY WASTING OUR TIME ON THAT SCENE?
@Maria Antonietta

ROFL ROFL  well said!
@cherrylipstick

Thanks
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