Reylo in TLJ & Literary Analysis

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Post by SheLitAFire on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 11:41 am

Thoughts? Feelings? Where do they go from here? What might IX have in store for them?

One thing I'd like to bring up is Reylo through a classic literary lens, such as Jane Eyre & Pride and Prejudice.
To me (haven't seen the movie yet, but I have followed most of the spoilers so far), it seems definite (from reviewers lol) that our Kylo is Mr. Rochester. Rey is Jane with a moral dilemma at the end of VIII (channeling the wedding chapel scene in Jane Eyre).
Could Poe be a St. John type figure? Thoughts on that? My thought is yes, perhaps in a way, not a full blown romance...but the idea of a leader, moralistic "light" character who is set in his ways & beliefs, that Rey likes to an extent but will ultimately see him as an extreme in the opposite way as Kylo Ren, thus going "gray" with balancing the light & dark traits within her.
I know like hardly any of us what a romantic triangle and I'm not sure that'll be what we get (full blown anyway), but I think there could be subtle elements of it, perhaps.

Also, Mr. Darcy & Elizabeth Bennett angst.

Other literary references? I know some people mentioned Hades & Persephone as well.


Last edited by SheLitAFire on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 6:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by LadyHa on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 12:12 pm

It feels a bit like Wuthering Heights to me. Kylo as Heathcliff - a child different from the those around hime. He becomes thoroughly bonded to Cathy with an emphasis on them being equals. But, she chooses the light side anyways. He remains tortured and ends up doing things that are unforgivable.

I confess that I have never been as in to Jane Eyre, so I am less inclined to consider it. What are more parallels with it? The secret in the attic seems very different to me...
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 1:07 pm

@LadyHa wrote:It feels a bit like Wuthering Heights to me. Kylo as Heathcliff - a child different from the those around hime. He becomes thoroughly bonded to Cathy with an emphasis on them being equals. But, she chooses the light side anyways. He remains tortured and ends up doing things that are unforgivable.

I confess that I have never been as in to Jane Eyre, so I am less inclined to consider it. What are more parallels with it? The secret in the attic seems very different to me...
@LadyHa

Yes, I get Heathcliff vibes from Kylo. I love Withering Heights, but I hope his ending is much different.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 1:29 pm

@LadyHa wrote:It feels a bit like Wuthering Heights to me. Kylo as Heathcliff - a child different from the those around hime. He becomes thoroughly bonded to Cathy with an emphasis on them being equals. But, she chooses the light side anyways. He remains tortured and ends up doing things that are unforgivable.

I confess that I have never been as in to Jane Eyre, so I am less inclined to consider it. What are more parallels with it? The secret in the attic seems very different to me...
@LadyHa

To me, the "lady in the attic" would be more the Renperor turn/his philosophy. They fight the PG together, all seems well, then he requests her assistance in running the empire together, but he's still Dark Side/Conflicted Gray and she's just like "uhhhh I'm not sure I'm down with that" and leaves....
Just my 2 cents though. I haven't seen the movie yet haha

And yes, I do agree with the Heathcliff reference. And I definitely agree @Cowgirlsamurai that let's cross our fingers and hope his outcome is very different. ::holding breath::

@MyOnlyHope also mentioned Beauty and the Beast in the Spoilers thread, which we've been discussing all along anyway Lolilol
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 1:37 pm

When Rey rejects Kylo the 2nd time they have this epic
Spoiler:
Force tug of war over Luke's lightsaber. They're so equally matched that they both push each other away from the saber and the saber breaks in half. Rey screams as she pulls and tears are streaming down her sad and disappointed face. She looks utterly heartbroken while Kylo is still manic. When the saber breaks they are both thrown off.
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Post by LadyHa on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 1:38 pm


To me, the "lady in the attic" would be more the Renperor turn/his philosophy. They fight the PG together, all seems well, then he requests her assistance in running the empire together, but he's still Dark Side/Conflicted Gray and she's just like "uhhhh I'm not sure I'm down with that" and leaves....
Just my 2 cents though. I haven't seen the movie yet haha

And yes, I do agree with the Heathcliff reference. And I definitely agree @Cowgirlsamurai  that let's cross our fingers and hope his outcome is very different. ::holding breath::
@SheLitAFire

Thanks, I hadn't considered that his proposal could be related to the metaphor for the lady in the attic- it does seem to be the thing that Rey couldn't deal with.

I can see a version of this story playing out like Wuthering Heights where Kylo pines for Rey forever, but can never be with her, and it drives him mad. With all of this force ghost mysteriousness, a form of desperately digging up her grave could be easily added in. However, somehow I see JJ as being more inclined towards a happy ending - his commentary struck me as more referencing lighter fairy tales, less about doom.
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Post by Darth Dementor on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 11:07 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:When Rey rejects Kylo the 2nd time they have this epic
Spoiler:
Force tug of war over Luke's lightsaber. They're so equally matched that they both push each other away from the saber and the saber breaks in half. Rey screams as she pulls and tears are streaming down her sad and disappointed face. She looks utterly heartbroken while Kylo is still manic. When the saber breaks they are both thrown off.
@Rei of Sunshine

The saber tug of war is a total metaphor for their relationship and their intertwined destinies;  where it may or may not go; and who has the power, at the time, in their pairing.  The saber is simultaneously a symbol of Ben's past and Rey's future.  

The first time they tugged over it Rey clearly won because Kylo was absolutely enthralled by her where Rey did not reciprocate the same level of attraction.  She clearly had more power in the initial meeting.  This time she is feeling him on an equal level.  She is just as intrigued by him now as he was to her in their first duel.  They both now have an equal chance of swaying one to their side.

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:56 am

There's that beautiful The Sleeping Beauty moment when Rey arrives at the Supremacy in the Falcon escape pod.

A nice Part 2 to Part 1 from the Maz's basement in TFA.
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Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:07 am

We always thought that they would follow the route of Reylo as Adam and Eve of the Force but what I've got from the movie is that he literally becomes the snake aka Lucifer. I didn't expect it to be this Gothic, honestly. It looks like they're anakin and padme on reverse but I really doubt he'll make it alive. It's really Vader 2.0, isn't it?
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:11 am

@Maria Antonietta wrote:We always thought that they would follow the route of Reylo as Adam and Eve of the Force but what I've got from the movie is that he literally becomes the snake aka Lucifer. I didn't expect it to be this Gothic, honestly. It looks like they're anakin and padme on reverse but I really doubt he'll make it alive. It's really Vader 2.0, isn't it?
@Maria Antonietta

No. It's not Vader 2.0.

Kylo's face at the end tells you all - he's not Vader and he'll never be one.
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Post by shii405 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:55 am

I also doubt he will make it out IX alive, but Kylo will never be Vader 2.0, I believe this is what the whole LF team have agreed on, when they created Kylo Ren character.
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Post by MeadowofAshes on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:39 am

Trigger warning for themes of sexual abuse:
I'm fairly certain Ben Solo's story with regards to Snoke is a metaphor for childhood sexual abuse - there's a lot that tells me this and I'll unpack it all later but I'm throwing this initial thought out there as it hit me like a ton of bricks why the movie felt tonally off
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Post by Darth Dementor on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:35 pm

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
Trigger warning for themes of sexual abuse:
I'm fairly certain Ben Solo's story with regards to Snoke is a metaphor for childhood sexual abuse - there's a lot that tells me this and I'll unpack it all later but I'm throwing this initial thought out there as it hit me like a ton of bricks why the movie felt tonally off
@MeadowofAshes

Yeah it could be viewed that way.  Kylo's struggle can also be viewed as an allegory for addiction with Snoke serving as a metaohor for drugs or alcohol. Just because someone Kicks a habit doesn't mean they still don't feel the effects or they still don't feel the pull of their past life trying to pull them back to their old life.

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Post by guardienne on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 3:13 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:There's that beautiful The Sleeping Beauty moment when Rey arrives at the Supremacy in the Falcon escape pod.

A nice Part 2 to Part 1 from the Maz's basement in TFA.
@Darth_Awakened

it made me think of snow white a lot more actually, what with the glass coffin.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:25 am

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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:27 am

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Post by reylo1992 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:45 am

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Post by rey09 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:44 pm

guyss he must continue the skywalker line. No way he is dying. Once he is redeemed Rey will go back to him eyes closed. She cared for him so easily, so once he's her ben again, it will be no sweat. Kylo is gonna plant one intense hot kiss on her just u wait!!

Not a fan of Wuthering Heights at all, tried watching the movie and I was so irked by the two of them. They are disastrous but I def. see that dynamic with rey and kylo. I just don't think it will end tragically for them. Idk if anyone has seen Veronica Mars but reylo reminds me A LOT of logan and veronica. Like a lot...
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Post by LadyHa on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:53 pm

@rey09 wrote:

Not a fan of Wuthering Heights at all, tried watching the movie and I was so irked by the two of them. They are disastrous but I def. see that dynamic with rey and kylo. I just don't think it will end tragically for them.
@rey09

IMO, there is no good Wuthering Heights film - many have tried, but the structure of the book doesn't translate to film very well, particularly the second half. The films I have seen change the storyline to make it more of a relatable romance, but the book is more complicated than that.
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Post by vaderito on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:37 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:When Rey rejects Kylo the 2nd time they have this epic
Spoiler:
Force tug of war over Luke's lightsaber. They're so equally matched that they both push each other away from the saber and the saber breaks in half. Rey screams as she pulls and tears are streaming down her sad and disappointed face. She looks utterly heartbroken while Kylo is still manic. When the saber breaks they are both thrown off.
@Rei of Sunshine

The saber tug of war is a total metaphor for their relationship and their intertwined destinies;  where it may or may not go; and who has the power, at the time, in their pairing.  The saber is simultaneously a symbol of Ben's past and Rey's future.  

The first time they tugged over it Rey clearly won because Kylo was absolutely enthralled by her where Rey did not reciprocate the same level of attraction.  She clearly had more power in the initial meeting.  This time she is feeling him on an equal level.  She is just as intrigued by him now as he was to her in their first duel.  They both now have an equal chance of swaying one to their side.
@Darth Dementor

There won't be swaying. That's where they are going wrong. Each thinks his or her vision of the future is the right one but the answer is both are right. They will stand together as dark and light when they accept the other thing in each other, Yin and Yang. She'll be the light to his darkness and he'll be the darkness to her light. Like the Prime Jedi mosaic.

@Darth_Awakened OMG, that scene is so underrated! Yes, total Sleeping Beauty...with the twist when Troopers show up with the handcuffs. So we had Sleeping Beauty reference when she finds the saber (and has a vision of Kylo) in TFA. Sleeping Beauty reference in TLJ when she arrives in the glass coffin (that's more Snow White but amounts to the same). So Kiss of True Love is left for IX.
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Post by rey09 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:01 pm

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Post by thescavenger on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:04 am

@rey09 wrote:Reylo in TLJ & Literary Analysis  DQ-ceelUEAI8HiB
@rey09

You know this was only the first proposal - middle of the book. I know what I'm waiting for in 9.

Waiting for Kylo to get Lydia/Wickham married, Jane and Bingley together, and Rey finding out what he did for her.
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:45 am

@thescavenger wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Reylo in TLJ & Literary Analysis  DQ-ceelUEAI8HiB
@rey09

You know this was only the first proposal - middle of the book. I know what I'm waiting for in 9.

Waiting for Kylo to get Lydia/Wickham married, Jane and Bingley together, and Rey finding out what he did for her.
@thescavenger

Lydia/Wickham marriage could equal reforms in the way FO governs, or Kylo might even demilitarize the FO to concentrate on rehabilitation of Outer Rim planets, which would piss off Hux.

Kylo might want to end the war, and really bring order to the galaxy, yet I'm a little uncertain about his mental state for Act 1 of Ep 9. I mean he has the potential to be a benevolent ruler, but not sure if he's there yet.

I know that the Resistance is trying to rebuild the Rebellion again, but wouldn't it be a great turn in the story if preparing for war turned out to be unecessary? And with everyone all regrouped together, they could move on from their and keep making the galaxy a better place.
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Post by thescavenger on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:16 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Reylo in TLJ & Literary Analysis  DQ-ceelUEAI8HiB
@rey09

You know this was only the first proposal - middle of the book. I know what I'm waiting for in 9.

Waiting for Kylo to get Lydia/Wickham married, Jane and Bingley together, and Rey finding out what he did for her.
@thescavenger

Lydia/Wickham marriage could equal reforms in the way FO governs, or Kylo might even demilitarize the FO to concentrate on rehabilitation of Outer Rim planets, which would piss off Hux.

Kylo might want to end the war, and really bring order to the galaxy, yet I'm a little uncertain about his mental state for Act 1 of Ep 9. I mean he has the potential to be a benevolent ruler, but not sure if he's there yet.

I know that the Resistance is trying to rebuild the Rebellion again, but wouldn't it be a great turn in the story if preparing for war turned out to be unecessary? And with everyone all regrouped together, they could move on from their and keep making the galaxy a better place.
@Rei of Sunshine

I was wondering the same thing. I believe he's capable of doing something positive, it's just a matter of what kickstarts the process of the change in heart.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 6:08 am

@thescavenger wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Reylo in TLJ & Literary Analysis  DQ-ceelUEAI8HiB
@rey09

You know this was only the first proposal - middle of the book. I know what I'm waiting for in 9.

Waiting for Kylo to get Lydia/Wickham married, Jane and Bingley together, and Rey finding out what he did for her.
@thescavenger

Lydia/Wickham marriage could equal reforms in the way FO governs, or Kylo might even demilitarize the FO to concentrate on rehabilitation of Outer Rim planets, which would piss off Hux.

Kylo might want to end the war, and really bring order to the galaxy, yet I'm a little uncertain about his mental state for Act 1 of Ep 9. I mean he has the potential to be a benevolent ruler, but not sure if he's there yet.

I know that the Resistance is trying to rebuild the Rebellion again, but wouldn't it be a great turn in the story if preparing for war turned out to be unecessary? And with everyone all regrouped together, they could move on from their and keep making the galaxy a better place.
@Rei of Sunshine

I was wondering the same thing. I believe he's capable of doing something positive, it's just a matter of what kickstarts the process of the change in heart.
@thescavenger

I think that it depends heavily on when Episode 9 begins. I definitely think that we need a pretty long time jump to let the characters evolve.
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