Predictions for Episode 9

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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 11:52 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen

I have no idea how the story is going to go because like Daisy said: it could go anywhere.

At that point, I would predict the following things:

1) Some big time gap - maybe several years

2) Kylo and Rey fight each other somewhen in the middle of the movie , Kylo wins the fight since Rey already won in Episode 7,  but can't bring himself to destroy her
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 11:56 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen
Until/unless Rian says Rey cut off the connection I see absolutely no reason to believe it's gone. She just shut a physical door on him. She won't be reaching out to him or answering him if he tries to contact her, but it's still there.
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:01 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen

I have no idea how the story is going to go because like Daisy said: it could go anywhere.

At that point, I would predict the following things:

1) Some big time gap - maybe several years

2) Kylo and Rey fight each other somewhen in the middle of the movie , Kylo wins the fight since Rey already won in Episode 7,  but can't bring himself to destroy her
@reylo1992

I'm sure only on one thing, some form of redemption for Ben, because ending it with his death without redemption would be beyond tragic. Which is why I'm not gonna say this or that will happen beyond that.

That time gap is not a good news for us. Things can radically change for good or worse. But Luke's line to Kylo about not destroying Rey and Jedi could be that Kylo will be within touching distance of doing so or literally Rey defeats him again. Honestly, don't care because this is only makes my head spinning around. Thanks to Rian we have no answers and two more years of misery and what if. My biggest dissapointment with the movie, it didn't answered almost anything or to make a progress to the direction. Everything is on JJ to cram it into one movie and that could be the downfall for many things in general.


@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen
Until/unless Rian says Rey cut off the connection I see absolutely no reason to believe it's gone. She just shut a physical door on him. She won't be reaching out to him or answering him if he tries to contact her, but it's still there.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Sure, for the time being she cut him off, they should be able to do it at will or connect if they want to. It was rather symbolic and directed not only for Kylo but for the audience aswell.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:17 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen

I have no idea how the story is going to go because like Daisy said: it could go anywhere.

At that point, I would predict the following things:

1) Some big time gap - maybe several years

2) Kylo and Rey fight each other somewhen in the middle of the movie , Kylo wins the fight since Rey already won in Episode 7,  but can't bring himself to destroy her
@reylo1992

I'm sure only on one thing, some form of redemption for Ben, because ending it with his death without redemption would be beyond tragic. Which is why I'm not gonna say this or that will happen beyond that.

That time gap is not a good news for us. Things can radically change for good or worse. But Luke's line to Kylo about not destroying Rey and Jedi could be that Kylo will be within touching distance of doing so or literally Rey defeats him again. Honestly, don't care because this is only makes my head spinning around. Thanks to Rian we have no answers and two more years of misery and what if. My biggest dissapointment with the movie, it didn't answered almost anything or to make a progress to the direction. Everything is on JJ to cram it into one movie and that could be the downfall for many things in general.
@DarthRen

Exactly my problem with TLJ. Thanks God, Rey stole the Old Jedi texts so maybe we'll have something coming out from this. Another big disappointment in the movie is that the plot was more similar to ESB than ROTS. And Gosh, this is precisely what I didn't want. I expected aplot that would give a clear direction to the ST revealing interesting stuffs about the Force dimension (i.e. age-old mysteries), the political dimension (i.e. like Bloodline) and the personal dimension (i.e. how the revelation about Vader impacted the Skywalker family). When O saw the movie, I really asked myself if Rian did pay attention to the mystery box set up by TFA because it really seems that TLJ didn't tie enough with TFA. I mean, even the story about how Maz got the Skywalker lightsaber and the reason why it called to Rey wasn't included. There's still so many stuff to cover in Episode 9 that I doubt one single movie will be enough. And I really ask myself how Reylo is supposed to bring the balance when we don't even know what caused the imabalance in the first place and how that balance will be achieved on Force, political and military level. Plus making sure to tie the nine movies alltogether when Anakin initial importance wasn't even covered in TLJ, undermining his importance in the whole story? And J.J. must also find the time to insert the love story but with Snoke apparently gone, I ask myself what will be the main threat to Reylo, the Balance and the fate of the galaxy. Kylo himself? But why?
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:37 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@ReyofLightSide wrote:
@thescavenger wrote:Across the Stars came up when I was driving home from the theatre, so here is my only prediction/hope for IX:

- I NEED THE MOST EPIC LOVE THEME FOR THESE TWO
@thescavenger

Yes for now the Force Theme is their love theme.

My head canon: there is a slight time jump, a year. Rey and Kylo are doing their thing and Kylo keeps trying to call Rey through the Force and she does not answer.
Then this is where Leia's death may come into play- Leia dies and Rey feels Kylo's heartbreak through the Force. And SHE calls HIM though the Force, and he answers. And she says, You are not alone.

@ReyofLightSide

She shut off the connection, Kylo knows it and heartbroken accepted it. If Kylo will still be inning after her, it would be no different than in the previous films. I think he'llbe bitter with a sense of pride of being hurt, because she bertrayed him in his own mind. He gave her everything from his point of view, she refused and tried to grab a lightsaber. Knowing how dangerous she is, what Luke did to him. He's hurt, combine that with hatred for established things like the Sith, the Jedi, Rebels, Snoke's FO.
@DarthRen

I have no idea how the story is going to go because like Daisy said: it could go anywhere.

At that point, I would predict the following things:

1) Some big time gap - maybe several years

2) Kylo and Rey fight each other somewhen in the middle of the movie , Kylo wins the fight since Rey already won in Episode 7,  but can't bring himself to destroy her
@reylo1992

I'm sure only on one thing, some form of redemption for Ben, because ending it with his death without redemption would be beyond tragic. Which is why I'm not gonna say this or that will happen beyond that.

That time gap is not a good news for us. Things can radically change for good or worse. But Luke's line to Kylo about not destroying Rey and Jedi could be that Kylo will be within touching distance of doing so or literally Rey defeats him again. Honestly, don't care because this is only makes my head spinning around. Thanks to Rian we have no answers and two more years of misery and what if. My biggest dissapointment with the movie, it didn't answered almost anything or to make a progress to the direction. Everything is on JJ to cram it into one movie and that could be the downfall for many things in general.
@DarthRen

Exactly my problem with TLJ. Thanks God, Rey stole the Old Jedi texts so maybe we'll have something coming out from this. Another big disappointment in the movie is that the plot was more similar to ESB than ROTS. And Gosh, this is precisely what I didn't want. I expected aplot that would give a clear direction to the ST revealing interesting stuffs about the Force dimension (i.e. age-old mysteries), the political dimension (i.e. like Bloodline) and the personal dimension (i.e. how the revelation about Vader impacted the Skywalker family). When O saw the movie, I really asked myself if Rian did pay attention to the mystery box set up by TFA because it really seems that TLJ didn't tie enough with TFA. I mean, even the story about how Maz got the Skywalker lightsaber and the reason why it called to Rey wasn't included. There's still so many stuff to cover in Episode 9 that I doubt one single movie will be enough. And I really ask myself how Reylo is supposed to bring the balance when we don't even know what caused the imabalance in the first place and how that balance will be achieved on Force, political and military level. Plus making sure to tie the nine movies alltogether when Anakin initial importance wasn't even covered in TLJ, undermining his importance in the whole story? And J.J. must also find the time to insert the love story but with Snoke apparently gone, I ask myself what will be the main threat to Reylo, the Balance and the fate of the galaxy. Kylo himself? But why?
@reylo1992

Agreed. All the force mystery, political valance felt very hollow. TFA looked too much like OT, TLJ absolutely ignore all the SW elements. TFA at least kept SW mysthicsm there. Balance is tough to find but not tough to at least reach out to it, leave the rest to JJ. All the mysteries bar Rey's parents are still up in the air, like Rian wanted to leave it up to JJ who has work cut out for him. The balance or lack of it not answered, parentage should have been visually with little Rey seeing her parents for the last time or raw powah? What was that about? Rian hyped, we made our headcanons and we ended up here. I felt cheated after my first viewing but now a bit better.

The most encouraging is the fact that JJ was executive producer of TLJ, sohe knows things and if he agreed to it. Well, a very brave man.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 12:48 pm

Wrong thread
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Post by snufkin on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:16 pm

@Darth Dingbat I definitely think that they end TLJ with the two of them at the point Jane and Rochester were at. But beyond that, having seen Rian Johnson rather gleeful deconstruct a lot of the tropes and expectations, including his explanation that he had Ben kill Snoke in order to step up as a more complex villain, I'm withholding judgment on where it will go next. I mean, Rochester wasn't already an aspiring galactic warlord. That said, I think very much the message he wants to get across via exposition from Rose and Luke is that the past system being built on legacies hurts everybody else because the power is centralized in the hands of an elite. Which is why Rey and Ben's visions of the future they can have together are, for now, diametrically opposed, and she leaves him. I do fully expect to see him in further Heathcliffe mode in IX. At least at the end with the dice and the vision of her, he looks like he knows that he's gained everything he ever schemed for, but it's nothing compared to betraying/hurting the two people who loved him regardless of whatever legacy/status he had.

Otherwise, eh not crazy about Renperer. I mean, I can see the reasons why RJ made the decision because there's so much potential to be explored in themes, parallels to the PT and Anakin/Padme, and most specifically, the whole rebuke of legacies and how the Force should be for everyone, not the elite. But I still think it would've been a Hell of a lot more fun to see him simply breaking from Snoke and going Ronin to do his own thing. But that leaves a power vacuum for the Big Bad, so :/.
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:20 pm

I feel like 'raw power' and 'balance' were emphasized pre-TLJ and neither ended up being a big factor in the story. Balance may be the overarching theme of Rey and Kylo's relationship, but it didn't really have a big part to play in TLJ to me. I'm still sort of bitter that an exploration of the 'raw power' thing both of them share wasn't important to the plot. I guess those being thrown around as keywords made me think TLJ would have much more Force mysticism than it did.

And honestly, I still think accidental explosion Jedi massacre, possibly with Luke telling Kylo to f*** off in the aftermath, would have been a better way to do it and still have Kylo come out understandable and feeling betrayed by Luke. I think the issue would be that this wasn't bad enough to justify Luke hiding out and cutting himself off from the Force the way he did.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:45 pm

I think one of TLJ's biggest disappointments to fans - all fans, not just us - was that it obliterated so many avenues of speculation without offering much in the way of answers. And as it seemed to drop so much that we thought would be a thing, it's hard to build further speculation from that.

TFA's mystery box had us theorising for two years, but that was because we thought things come with meanings attached to them, and a lot of them didn't. I honestly can't see myself speculating much from now on. I enjoy reading analyses and theories, but don't really have anything of my own beyond an "eh" and a shrug. I'm more convinced than ever that Reylo is endgame - nothing else makes sense to me at this point - but I can't guess how they'll get there and whether it will actually be satisfying. It might not be. Sometimes stories push too far. Sometimes they're painted into a corner and stomp and stumble their way across a floor of fresh paint to get anywhere.

On the other hand, at least we mostly latched onto the right bits of symbolism in TFA, as the Reylo bits and bobs were all true.

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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:55 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:I think one of TLJ's biggest disappointments to fans - all fans, not just us - was that it obliterated so many avenues of speculation without offering much in the way of answers. And as it seemed to drop so much that we thought would be a thing, it's hard to build further speculation from that.

TFA's mystery box had us theorising for two years, but that was because we thought things come with meanings attached to them, and a lot of them didn't. I honestly can't see myself speculating much from now on. I enjoy reading analyses and theories, but don't really have anything of my own beyond an "eh" and a shrug. I'm more convinced than ever that Reylo is endgame - nothing else makes sense to me at this point - but I can't guess how they'll get there and whether it will actually be satisfying. It might not be. Sometimes stories push too far. Sometimes they're painted into a corner and stomp and stumble their way across a floor of fresh paint to get anywhere.

On the other hand, at least we mostly latched onto the right bits of symbolism in TFA, as the Reylo bits and bobs were all true.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 6 ForceAwakens7Text
@Darth Dingbat
I'm honestly satisfied with what was answered. People complained about the mystery box for two freaking years. They slammed JJ and his inability to do... well, anything. I have no issue with the mystery box approach but I'm so at peace with it basically gone. This film dismantled it and burned its corpse.

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We knew Reylo was what mattered thanks to Rian (and there are still many places to go after TLJ... the direction just has to respect Kylo and Rey above all else).
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Post by Kylo Men on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:57 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
Until/unless Rian says Rey cut off the connection I see absolutely no reason to believe it's gone. She just shut a physical door on him. She won't be reaching out to him or answering him if he tries to contact her, but it's still there.
@FrolickingFizzgig

This, totally this. I read that beforehand. Where did it come from? Obviously it's still going near the very end and nothing said about it after that.


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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:59 pm

Okay @Fizzgig. Let's come back to the right topic: prediction Smile

Although I am pretty okay with Renperor, there is a little part of me that still hopes that Snoke actually knew what he was doing in pushing Kylo to kill him, possibly paralleling Luke who knew what he was doing when he came to face Ben.

Remember what Luke said:

"If you kill me, I'll haunt you, just like your father. See you around, kid"

What if this applied to Snoke? I kinda think that it's suspicious Rian let Snoke killed without giving any context about who he is, what was his huge agenda and what was really his relationship with Ben like. So what if he had actually prepared some plan B in case he was killed? And more shocking: what if he was perfectly aware of Kylo's intentions and let himself killed on purpose?

That sounds crazy but things completely went wrong with Ben from the moment he killed him. Maybe Snoke even knew that this would ultimately  tear Kylo and Rey apart because she would refuse him. Lets  think about it. We know that the connection existed prior to TLJ. Snoke says that he is the one that put Kylo and Rey in contact but we know he is clearly lying here. But what if Kylo believed Snoke told the truth after Rey rejected him and that the connection was only the result of Snoke's will. And indeed Kylo goes completely in Hitler mode after Rey rejects him. The result ? He ends up more isolated than ever, having lost the faith his mother had in him, having sort of killed Luke and having lost Rey.

I don't know if it's possible and I'm ready to let go of that kind of theory. Still, the idea that Snoke could still be the Maestro Forte  pulling the strings in order to keep Beast and Belle apart and preventing the Balance to happen pleases me through
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:05 pm

@reylo1992 wrote:Okay @Fizzgig. Let's come back to the right topic: prediction Smile

Although I am pretty okay with Renperor, there is a little part of me that still hopes that Snoke actually knew what he was doing in pushing Kylo to kill him, possibly paralleling Luke who knew what he was doing when he came to face Ben.

Remember what Luke said:

"If you kill me, I'll haunt you, just like your father. See you around, kid"

What if this applied to Snoke? I kinda think that it's suspicious Rian let Snoke killed without giving any context about who he is, what was his huge agenda and what was really his relationship with Ben like. So what if he had actually prepared some plan B in case he was killed? And more shocking: what if he was perfectly aware of Kylo's intentions and let himself killed on purpose?

That sounds crazy but things completely went wrong with Ben from the moment he killed him. Maybe Snoke even knew that this would ultimately  tear Kylo and Rey apart because she would refuse him. Lets  think about it. We know that the connection existed prior to TLJ. Snoke says that he is the one that put Kylo and Rey in contact but we know he is clearly lying here. But what if Kylo believed Snoke told the truth after Rey rejected him and that the connection was only the result of Snoke's will. And indeed Kylo goes completely in Hitler mode after Rey rejects him. The result ? He ends up more isolated than ever, having lost the faith his mother had in him, having sort of killed Luke and having lost Rey.

I don't know if it's possible and I'm ready to let go of that kind of theory. Still, the idea that Snoke could still be the Maestro Forte  pulling the strings in order to keep Beast and Belle apart and preventing the Balance to happen pleases me through
@reylo1992
I saw no evidence to suggest Snoke had some huge agenda that didn't involve destroying the Resistance/Republic and taking control of the galaxy. He was a rich alien with lots of resources and an unfortunate taste for young Force Sensitives. We never needed to hear Palpatine's master plan in order to understand what it was. Snoke was just like him. There was no big mystery there just as there was no big mystery about Rey's parents. Both questions were answered in TFA, actually!

That said, I definitely can't speak about what JJ intends to do. I could never say it's impossible that Snoke isn't still alive or didn't have some plan just like Luke. I would like that, actually.
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Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:13 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:Okay @Fizzgig. Let's come back to the right topic: prediction Smile

Although I am pretty okay with Renperor, there is a little part of me that still hopes that Snoke actually knew what he was doing in pushing Kylo to kill him, possibly paralleling Luke who knew what he was doing when he came to face Ben.

Remember what Luke said:

"If you kill me, I'll haunt you, just like your father. See you around, kid"

What if this applied to Snoke? I kinda think that it's suspicious Rian let Snoke killed without giving any context about who he is, what was his huge agenda and what was really his relationship with Ben like. So what if he had actually prepared some plan B in case he was killed? And more shocking: what if he was perfectly aware of Kylo's intentions and let himself killed on purpose?

That sounds crazy but things completely went wrong with Ben from the moment he killed him. Maybe Snoke even knew that this would ultimately  tear Kylo and Rey apart because she would refuse him. Lets  think about it. We know that the connection existed prior to TLJ. Snoke says that he is the one that put Kylo and Rey in contact but we know he is clearly lying here. But what if Kylo believed Snoke told the truth after Rey rejected him and that the connection was only the result of Snoke's will. And indeed Kylo goes completely in Hitler mode after Rey rejects him. The result ? He ends up more isolated than ever, having lost the faith his mother had in him, having sort of killed Luke and having lost Rey.

I don't know if it's possible and I'm ready to let go of that kind of theory. Still, the idea that Snoke could still be the Maestro Forte  pulling the strings in order to keep Beast and Belle apart and preventing the Balance to happen pleases me through
@reylo1992
I saw no evidence to suggest Snoke had some huge agenda that didn't involve destroying the Resistance/Republic and taking control of the galaxy. He was a rich alien with lots of resources and an unfortunate taste for young Force Sensitives. We never needed to hear Palpatine's master plan in order to understand what it was. Snoke was just like him. There was no big mystery there just as there was no big mystery about Rey's parents. Both questions were answered in TFA, actually!

That said, I definitely can't speak about what JJ intends to do. I could never say it's impossible that Snoke isn't still alive or didn't have some plan just like Luke. I would like that, actually.  
@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree about that. There is nothing in the movie that suggests it. But then, where do Serkis comments come from? Why would he repeatedly hint at a huge agenda? Why would he describe Snoke as a great character if the villain gets so easily defeated? Why having Snoke pulling the strings and ruling the FO at least twenty years before the events? Either Rian just sent a big punch in J.J.'s mystery box and J.J. liked it so much he agreed to be executive producer and come back as a director after Rian. Or Rian created the big mess - apparently throwing the mystery box although he actually prepared subtly the transition to Episode 9. I am very curious to know what will come out from the Old Jedi Texts and what will be the biggest danger to the achievement of the Balance of the Force in Episode 9.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 6 Tumblr97

But Snoke as some shadow behind Renperor would be a big twist. Now that Kylo felt betrayed by Rey like Beast feels betrayed by Belle or Rapunzel betrayed by Eugene at some point, why not having Snoke as Maestro Forte and/or Mother Gothel showing Kylo evidence that his compassion for the girl misguided him? Let's keep in mind that the whole movie was about shift of alliance, misinterpretation and chess game. I like the idea that like Luke playing chess game with Kylo, Snoke also played chess with Kylo, perfectly knowing that compassion for his son led Vader to kill the Emperor and thus compassion for the girl would lead Kylo to kill him. If I would be Snoke, I would rather make sure to isolate Kylo from Rey and this is exactly what happened in the end. She leaves him a second time behind and he is the fool in love whose compassion and more for her clouded his judgement.

So I'll keep that in mind but ready to move on depending on how the deleted scenes and the novelization will complete the movie regarding Snoke's agenda.


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Post by Saracene on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:27 pm

IMO one other factor in favour of Kylo surviving is that his story seems to be very much about growing up in an emotional sense, and there's little point in someone doing that and then dying straight away.

I think it's significant that, at the end of TLJ, Kylo is still the same volatile, immature screw-up he's always been, he moved up in power but he hasn't budged emotionally at all. One of my earlier predictions for TLJ was that Kylo would come to be more controlled and mature, and this actually would have fit in perfectly with the Renperor scenario where Kylo becomes your typical cold and calculating Big Bad. However this doesn't happen in the least. And one way to illustrate the emotional growing up is to have the character learn selflessness and putting another person above themselves. Which Kylo hasn't done so far; yes he saves Rey from Snoke but this was a calculated act and he wanted something from Rey at the end of it, and when she doesn't go along with his plan he goes ballistic and cries, I'll destrooooy her!!

This also ties in with the idea that no one can save Kylo but himself, because no one can do growing up for you. Vader's story in the OT wasn't about growth, it was about finding a spark of humanity within the half-machine who's been emotionally dead for years.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:34 pm

@Saracene wrote:IMO one other factor in favour of Kylo surviving is that his story seems to be very much about growing up in an emotional sense, and there's little point in someone doing that and then dying straight away.

I think it's significant that, at the end of TLJ, Kylo is still the same volatile, immature screw-up he's always been, he moved up in power but he hasn't budged emotionally at all. One of my earlier predictions for TLJ was that Kylo would come to be more controlled and mature, and this actually would have fit in perfectly with the Renperor scenario where Kylo becomes your typical cold and calculating Big Bad. However this doesn't happen in the least. And one way to illustrate the emotional growing up is to have the character learn selflessness and putting another person above themselves. Which Kylo hasn't done so far; yes he saves Rey from Snoke but this was a calculated act and he wanted something from Rey at the end of it, and when she doesn't go along with his plan he goes ballistic and cries, I'll destrooooy her!!

This also ties in with the idea that no one can save Kylo but himself, because no one can do growing up for you. Vader's story in the OT wasn't about growth, it was about finding a spark of humanity within the half-machine who's been emotionally dead for years.
@Saracene
Yep, Kathleen Kennedy outlined Kylo's story arc in a French interview right after TFA came out. The intention all along was to use the dark side as a metaphor for a volatile youth becoming a fully realized adult. He isn't there yet, not by a long shot. This definitely falls in line with Adam being one of the only actors who seems to have a decent idea of where his character was meant to go over the course of the narrative.
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Post by KnightsofReylo_2015 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:37 pm

Not sure if this belongs here (Mods please move if not), but because this is a Ep IX predictions thread I thought I'd share here.

This is SW Theory's video about Snoke not really being dead after TLJ and will maybe show up again in IX?



I liked the fact that Snoke was killed at Kylo's hands...so, not really sure what I think about this at all...but it gave me pause to think. That would be a twist. Also, If Snoke is alive, how he can be defeated? Maybe only the combination of Rey and Kylo/Ben together can bring him down? And now my headcannon is going to so many places/possibilities...I need to stop and pace myself...we have two years! LOL Laughing
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Post by DarthRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:37 pm

@Saracene wrote:IMO one other factor in favour of Kylo surviving is that his story seems to be very much about growing up in an emotional sense, and there's little point in someone doing that and then dying straight away.

I think it's significant that, at the end of TLJ, Kylo is still the same volatile, immature screw-up he's always been, he moved up in power but he hasn't budged emotionally at all. One of my earlier predictions for TLJ was that Kylo would come to be more controlled and mature, and this actually would have fit in perfectly with the Renperor scenario where Kylo becomes your typical cold and calculating Big Bad. However this doesn't happen in the least. And one way to illustrate the emotional growing up is to have the character learn selflessness and putting another person above themselves. Which Kylo hasn't done so far; yes he saves Rey from Snoke but this was a calculated act and he wanted something from Rey at the end of it, and when she doesn't go along with his plan he goes ballistic and cries, I'll destrooooy her!!

This also ties in with the idea that no one can save Kylo but himself, because no one can do growing up for you. Vader's story in the OT wasn't about growth, it was about finding a spark of humanity within the half-machine who's been emotionally dead for years.
@Saracene

Tbh Kylo was different around Rey or should I say it was Ben Solo? I think even that moment when he killed Snoke was already a progression. If he stays same emotional wreck and lashing onto everyone, it would be dissapointing in Episode IX. Hope we'll see diferent Kylo cold, emotionless Supreme Leader because he has no one but possibly Knight of Ren [JJ loves them] and that's it. Leading is tough, harsh hand lonely job when you have to rule and have no friends. The reason why he also wanted Rey by his side, someone he can talk ... unless talking to scortched Vader's helmet counts as a friend.

I agree that no one else but himself can do it. Leia, Luke, Rey all failed and this story as advertised isn't about finding humanity, he has that but about growing up as a person.


@reylo1992

I'd agree with you but Rian made a point of saying that Snoke is gone. JJ worked on it too, so likely continuity will be upheld. We have to accept for now and entering Episode IX Kylo Ren is the big bad villain, not Snoke or Hux.
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Post by Saracene on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:56 pm

As for Rey, *sigh* I guess I made peace with the idea that she's essentially a static Belle-type character whose story is about finding belonging and love rather than having big goals. Not really what I wanted from a heroine in a SW film, but after TLJ it's plain to see that it is what it is. I guess I wanted more from Rey than being a part of an undeniably compelling dynamic; Kylo I find a great character with or without Rey; Rey's only really interesting to me through her interactions with Kylo.
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Post by jakkusun on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:06 pm

@reylo1992 I'm not so sure about Snoke being somehow still alive, but I do agree that "If you kill me in anger, I'll be with you forever, just like your father" could apply to Snoke in a figurative way. It would be nice if IX could go into more detail about how Snoke had been in Ben's head since he was young, and how that effected him and how it still affects him, even after he killed Snoke and is now trying to be a supreme leader. I wonder if Snoke claiming he created the bond between him and Rey will haunt him. I wonder if he will think about how the things he accused Rey of apply to him: "you look for your parents everywhere in other people"...since Snoke was maybe like a parent to Kylo, and he might've killed him for similar reasons that he killed Han...so he doesn't rely on him anymore... and "you're still not letting go!" will he have truly banished Snoke and his influence from his mind by killing him? I think he has not truly gotten rid of Snoke from his life, since he still seems to follow much of Snoke's "wisdom" and has taken on Snoke's title. I still think he isn't free from Snoke, which is why he couldn't choose to go with Rey.

idk maybe there will be a lot of people haunting (literally and figuratively) him in the next movie xD han, snoke, luke, leia....

--
Also this isn't really a prediction, but more a random terrible idea I had. So, since a lot of people (not on this forum) think Kylo getting redeemed will involve sacrificing his life, I was thinking well what if he didn't die, but was still really beat up and then he would need mechanical limbs and aid like Vader, except he would be redeemed, so it's kinda like the opposite of Anakin...Kylo gets burned in fire or something and is reborn as a mechanical good guy. And then it would challenge this issue in star wars that artificial limbs and stuff make people less human. I know this idea is kinda awful but I also thought it was kinda cool.
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Post by Gemlake on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:11 pm

I think Kylo might be fully redeemed at the end of Episode 9 (and by "fully", I mean alive and well, with Rey beside him).  But I also believe that Kylo might die, and it's not worth the energy to be tied to a particular result.  

Would JJ and Disney actually kill the final Skywalker in Episode 9?   Yes, absolutely.  It could be done in an emotional way, with Anakin, Luke and Leia looking down on him, as he saves Rey, or sacrifices his life.  It could be done after he is "redeemed".  Or it could be at the end of an epic lightsaber battle with Rey.  

The possible outrage from hardcore fans would not be a barrier.   Fans were outraged with Han and Luke dying. As long as JJ and Disney believe that the best story in 9 includes Kylo's death, they will make it happen.

The move would also free Disney to create an entirely new saga, with new heroes and villians.  They could still bring in the droids, the force ghosts, the lightsabers, the planets, the aliens, etc. to make it feel like "Star Wars".

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Post by DarthRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:20 pm

@Gemlake wrote:I think Kylo might be fully redeemed at the end of Episode 9 (and by "fully", I mean alive and well, with Rey beside him).  But I also believe that Kylo might die, and it's not worth the energy to be tied to a particular result.  

Would JJ and Disney actually kill the final Skywalker in Episode 9?   Yes, absolutely.  It could be done in an emotional way, with Anakin, Luke and Leia looking down on him, as he saves Rey, or sacrifices his life.  It could be done after he is "redeemed".  Or it could be at the end of an epic lightsaber battle with Rey.  

The possible outrage from hardcore fans would not be a barrier.   Fans were outraged with Han and Luke dying. As long as JJ and Disney believe that the best story in 9 includes Kylo's death, they will make it happen.

The move would also free Disney to create an entirely new saga, with new heroes and villians.  They could still bring in the droids, the force ghosts, the lightsabers, the planets, the aliens, etc. to make it feel like "Star Wars".
@Gemlake

They can make anything happen including Kylo's/Ben's death and making it compelling, epic and satisfying for the viewers. You presented few scenarios but not sure if Rey has to do it, epic lightsaber fight which will 100% happen, they'll get ther re-match is the way. Maybe unless he saves her from someone or something during that. If he sacrifices himself for something is either for Rey or to save the Galaxy, end what wold be by the end of Episode IX Hux's FO.

We have to count on the very likely scenario that the Skywalkers saga is ending and it might end with Ben who ties it all together.
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Post by Darth Dingbat on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:33 pm

@Saracene wrote:As for Rey, *sigh* I guess I made peace with the idea that she's essentially a static Belle-type character whose story is about finding belonging and love rather than having big goals. Not really what I wanted from a heroine in a SW film, but after TLJ it's plain to see that it is what it is. I guess I wanted more from Rey than being a part of an undeniably compelling dynamic; Kylo I find a great character with or without Rey; Rey's only really interesting to me through her interactions with Kylo.
@Saracene

Same Neutral After TFA it might have gone either way, but after 2/3 of the trilogy it seems clear to me what her role in this is.

It's a shame because with "raw powah", her being to drawn to darkness, etc., there was so much potential - so many things they might have done.

But as you say, it is what it is.
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:34 pm

I think the question becomes if Disney wants to fully scorch the earth of the things original fans cared about. Ending the Skywalker line for good is essentially doing that. Regardless of if it's done amazingly well on screen, that's going to be how a lot of fans feel about it. It's already how a lot of fans feel about it.

Also, if they think that they can't focus on entirely new characters unless the Skywalkers are out of the picture, that shows a discouraging lack of creativity and drive. It's a big frigging galaxy. Or if it's such a pressing issue, just set the stories before Anakin existed. There's plenty to do there and fans have been clamoring for more exploration of it for years.
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Post by Piper Maru on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:39 pm

My prediction for IX is a long-time headcanon:

Kylo's big sacrifice and act of selflessness involves him choosing to be free of the Force (by whatever plot device they find convenient). It would 1) turn the whole lineage thing upside down (the prodigal son who decides not to be one anymore) 2) free him from the Skywalker karma 3) make him 100% like his father -- a common man, no Force, no ultra galactic goals.
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