Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by DarthRen on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:26 am

@Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this
@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Gemini on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:31 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this
@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.
@DarthRen

No its still not good, audience reaction matters

Because if an audience dislike it on mass it effects the sales of the next movie.  

Look at TPM

People flocked in because they loved return of the jedi

But the mess of TPM affected attack of the clones and revenge of the sith

It destroyed the credibility of star wars for ages and jj was needed to fix it which he did

But tlj is bombing with the audience it seems
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by DarthRen on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:34 am

@Gemini wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this
@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.
@DarthRen

No its still not good audience reaction matters

Because if an aidience dislike it on mass it effects the sales of the next movie.

Look at TPM

People flocked in because they loved return of the jedi

But the mess of TPM effected attack of the clones and revenge of the sith

It destroyed the credibility of syat wars for ages and jj was needed to fix it which he did

But tlj ia bombing with the audience it seems
@Gemini

One site is not a measure and money is the key. For Disney most certainly.

This is the new era where SW is owned by Disney.

TPM was way worse, TLJ not anywhere close but JJ already pitched the idea and principal photography starts in June 2018, there is not much time to re-write it unless, they gonna move the release date or split the movie.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Moonjump05 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 3:22 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@Gemini wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Well its not going down well on rotten tomatoes

This is what happens when you try to destroy everything you have built for a fanbase and "move forward" and then they want you to buy books on jedi and sith..

Thank god jj is coming back to fix this
@Gemini

What matters to them is the box office results. If it makes money, critics already likes that, that is a win for them.
@DarthRen

No its still not good audience reaction matters

Because if an aidience dislike it on mass it effects the sales of the next movie.

Look at TPM

People flocked in because they loved return of the jedi

But the mess of TPM effected attack of the clones and revenge of the sith

It destroyed the credibility of syat wars for ages and jj was needed to fix it which he did

But tlj ia bombing with the audience it seems
@Gemini

One site is not a measure and money is the key. For Disney most certainly.

This is the new era where SW is owned by Disney.

TPM was way worse, TLJ not anywhere close but JJ already pitched the idea and principal photography starts in June 2018, there is not much time to re-write it unless, they gonna move the release date or split the movie.
@DarthRen

That site is full of super salty "reviews" of fanboys complaining about Luke. Seriously, it is either 4 star or 1/2, and it is not a 1/2 star movie by any metric.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by cherrylipstick on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:39 am

I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Ynqve on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:55 am

Lol why are you taking audience ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes seriously? Especially when the movie just got out? Not to mention the fact that from most reactions I've seen it's a movie that improves after a second or third viewing?
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by BenRey on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:57 am

RT audience ratings are from butthurt fanboys retaliating because their theories didn't come to fruition.

"So what do fans think? ComScore/Screen Engine reports a mindblowing five-out-of-five stars for the movie and a 90% overall positive with an 82% definite recommend. Forty five percent said that the Rian Johnson-directed movie came in above their expectations while close to 40% said they’ll the movie again in the theater. Huge. "

https://www.google.com/amp/deadline.com/2017/12/the-last-jedi-star-wars-box-office-thursday-night-preview-record-1202227654/amp/
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth Dingbat on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:58 am

@cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.
@cherrylipstick

I find it especially interesting that lots of people who weren't previously aware of the Reylo dynamic now find it exciting. It's a new thing to them.

Whereas many Reylos are dissatisfied because... I don't know, we were too early? Thinking too far ahead? Feeling shortchanged for our investment? I don't know. Perhaps it's because we already saw this? For example, we called the Force bond two years ago, so now it was more like, "Yes...? AND...?" Expecting more character development to accompany it, while the non-Reylo crowd is buzzing, "Whoa! Force bond! Who would have thought?"
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by DarthRen on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:02 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.
@cherrylipstick

I find it especially interesting that lots of people who weren't previously aware of the Reylo dynamic now find it exciting. It's a new thing to them.

Whereas many Reylos are dissatisfied because... I don't know, we were too early? Thinking too far ahead? Feeling shortchanged for our investment? I don't know. Perhaps it's because we already saw this? For example, we called the Force bond two years ago, so now it was more like, "Yes...? AND...?" Expecting more character development to accompany it, while the non-Reylo crowd is buzzing, "Whoa! Force bond! Who would have thought?"
@Darth Dingbat

It had bigger potential for us, but for the newcomers something never seen before. Pretty logical, like hardcore fans vs GA in their opinions on the movies.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by cherrylipstick on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:10 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@cherrylipstick wrote:I think that GA and lukewarm fans loved the movie much more than the passionate fanbase, but probably hardcore fans are more noisy and active on the internet.  
Or at least that's what I see with my friends and acquaintances, all those who weren't SW fans turned out enthusiastic about the movie.
@cherrylipstick

I find it especially interesting that lots of people who weren't previously aware of the Reylo dynamic now find it exciting. It's a new thing to them.

Whereas many Reylos are dissatisfied because... I don't know, we were too early? Thinking too far ahead? Feeling shortchanged for our investment? I don't know. Perhaps it's because we already saw this? For example, we called the Force bond two years ago, so now it was more like, "Yes...? AND...?" Expecting more character development to accompany it, while the non-Reylo crowd is buzzing, "Whoa! Force bond! Who would have thought?"
@Darth Dingbat

Yeah we were already ahead ROFL
I see it with my friends, now most of them love Reylo and find it totally unexpected and original. Mad Mad Mad Unexpected????!!!! Come on!! Rolling Eyes
But I'm happy that they're starting to appreciate them so much.

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:38 pm

I have film friends on FB who say that the writing and directing were both bad in this movie, and that RO was much better in these regards. Neutral
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Xylo Ren on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:14 am

For me the low audience score doesn't bother me because most of the complaints are valid ones: odd pacing, wtfery scenes like Leia flying, strange comedy, etc...

Reylo on the other hand, is getting raving reviews. Celebrities like Stephen Colbert ship it, big-time journalists on twitter want it, high-profile magazines liek Vanity Fair, Hollywood, and then sites like Buzzfeed want it.

Most Reylo notes on tumblr now get like 6,000 notes where the highest Reylo posts before TLJ used to get like 1,000 if you're lucky.

People want Reylo, that was the best thing to come out of TLJ. I'm praying JJ gives us more of that and less of boring Resistance that no one cares about.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:18 am

@Ynqve wrote:Lol why are you taking audience ratings on sites like Rotten Tomatoes seriously? Especially when the movie just got out? Not to mention the fact that from most reactions I've seen it's a movie that improves after a second or third viewing?
@Ynqve
I have no idea why people are taking this seriously. It's obviously being spammed. You don't have mostly 1/2 or 4 1/2 or 5 stars when that isn't the case. There haven't been "fair" critiques on either side as far as audience scores go. These are the same audience members who spam up audience scores for films like Justice League and Suicide Squad. It's not really representative of anything, especially at this early stage.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by rey09 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:39 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.
@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.
@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.
@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.
@FrolickingFizzgig Omg I cannot stop thinking about Zuko after TLJ. I was fearing Kylo would pull a second season Zuko and it happened but yea, it does make sense. They weren't ready it for it when it came time. While Zuko was unhappy, I remember him learning about Avatar Roku being his great grandfather was the big moment for him (loved that reveal), made him realize just because he is FN doesn't mean he has to stick to their policies. I wonder how Kylo's epiphany will happen. I feel that any sort of callback to Vader/Anakin would be too cheesy. I really just want him to change because he wants it and not because of history. I'd rather see Harrison come back and "haunt" Kylo. We still haven't seen him grieve.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by DarthRen on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:42 am

@rey09 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.
@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.
@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.
@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.
@FrolickingFizzgig Omg I cannot stop thinking about Zuko after TLJ. I was fearing Kylo would pull a second season Zuko and it happened but yea, it does make sense. They weren't ready it for it when it came time. While Zuko was unhappy, I remember him learning about Avatar Roku being his great grandfather was the big moment for him (loved that reveal), made him realize just because he is FN doesn't mean he has to stick to their policies. I wonder how Kylo's epiphany will happen. I feel that any sort of callback to Vader/Anakin would be too cheesy. I really just want him to change because he wants it and not because of history. I'd rather see Harrison come back and "haunt" Kylo. We still haven't seen him grieve.
@rey09

Han was mentioned but haven't seen Kylo dealing with his death that much. Maybe I just thought we'll see more grief than what was being shown.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by rey09 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 10:48 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@rey09 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:The "Kylo needs to redeem himself thing" is true, but that doesn't mean he should be devoid of a catalyst or support. This is where I get confused with how a lot of people see this, that it's okay for Rey to give up on him and to not help him in the least. 

It was Luke being there and believing in him that finally helped Vader pull himself out of the dark and realize what was more important to him, and what was right. I don't get why it's a popular opinion that Kylo shouldn't get the same. Most people don't make it out of a bad place in their lives without something reminding them of why they should and some sort of support, "deserved" or not.
@ZioRen
Unfortunately this is something that happens in a lot of "redemption" stories. Famously Iroh and Zuko in Avatar. After Zuko stabs Aang and the gang in the back (nearly resulting in Aang's death!) and essentially has his uncle imprisoned Iroh refuses to even acknowledge his existence. Iroh spent a good deal of season two attempting to help his nephew, only to see Zuko turn his back on everything as soon as the familial acceptance and honour he craved were within reach. So yes, the second redemption denial is a necessary step. It wasn't that Iroh didn't care about Zuko (or that Luke truly believes Ben is gone... he surely doesn't), but the truth is only Ben can save his own soul. Only he ever could. No matter how relatable Kylo's position is -- no matter how much his family failed him -- only he can rise above it all in the end, forgive and let go. Ironically exactly what he tells Rey to do.
@FrolickingFizzgig

But even Zuko wasn't completely devoid of reminders about what he wanted in his life when he was in his regression path. He still had Mai, contentious as that relationship was for a point in time.
@ZioRen
They aren't the same character, though. You can't expect the story to play out the same way.

Mei wasn't really what I could ever call a relevant character. She's just kind of there. The story was all about Aang and Zuko. It's not comparable at all.

I could never say that Zuko didn't find his way back thanks to his own strength. His own desire to prove Iroh and those who turned their backs on him after the events in the catacombs wrong. That rejection (and the realization that he became more miserable than ever despite supposedly having what he wanted) were what really prompted his desire to make another choice.
@FrolickingFizzgig Omg I cannot stop thinking about Zuko after TLJ. I was fearing Kylo would pull a second season Zuko and it happened but yea, it does make sense. They weren't ready it for it when it came time. While Zuko was unhappy, I remember him learning about Avatar Roku being his great grandfather was the big moment for him (loved that reveal), made him realize just because he is FN doesn't mean he has to stick to their policies. I wonder how Kylo's epiphany will happen. I feel that any sort of callback to Vader/Anakin would be too cheesy. I really just want him to change because he wants it and not because of history. I'd rather see Harrison come back and "haunt" Kylo. We still haven't seen him grieve.
@rey09

Han was mentioned but haven't seen Kylo dealing with his death that much. Maybe I just thought we'll see more grief than what was being shown.
@DarthRen Apparently he is being haunted but didn't get that sense at all. Rey didn't get the answers from him. It was just barely barely addressed. Huge missed opportunity. Rey was like I sense his conflict but that's so superficial. They did not go deep at all.
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