Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Irina de France on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 1:14 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Irina de France wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Eh, still think anybody who participates in discussions here will have a far better experience of being surprised by the movie than anybody who's spent the past 2 years sincerely believing that it'll be Rey goes to Ache-to for a purity ball and then reunites with the Beautiful Friendship Gang to murder-avenge Kyle Ron. Followed by her and Finn have an Ewok themed wedding while Rose agrees to be their bridesmaid because she's there to be the goofy nerd with a crush on Finn and Rey's wannabe friend.
@snufkin

I may have barfed a little. Especially at the Ewok themed wedding.
@Irina de France

The Rose-as-bridesmaid thing was an actual theory that someone proposed elsewhere on another online community...
@ISeeAnIsland

Look, if they're gonna go full-on Pride & Prejudice in space, there's gonna be a double-wedding with Rey and Ben, and Finn and Rose. Bonus points if Rey is wearing Padmé's wedding dress because that's what Leia would have wanted. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 1:19 pm

@snufkin wrote:If it does turn out that Rey's dad is a deadbeat hippie, I will be super disappointed with Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm because that's just so unimaginative and lazy. Even if people bicker over the parentage theories, at least they're all creative and involve a certain amount of imagination. Versus just making it the epic story of a girl who only matters because of who her dad was and even then, she has the worst childhood and adolescence of all the characters in the franchise, but it's okay 'cause he's a hero.

Eh, still think anybody who participates in discussions here will have a far better experience of being surprised by the movie than anybody who's spent the past 2 years sincerely believing that it'll be Rey goes to Ache-to for a purity ball and then reunites with the Beautiful Friendship Gang to murder-avenge Kyle Ron. Followed by her and Finn have an Ewok themed wedding while Rose agrees to be their bridesmaid because she's there to be the goofy nerd with a crush on Finn and Rey's wannabe friend. And anybody who's suddenly freaking out about anything that's come out of the latest round of press comments should've done their homework two years ago and watched Rian Johnson's films. The themes and character arcs/types should be a big clue why he got hired in the first place. It's not that this crowd are a**holes or that the filmmakers are horrible people, it's that a lot of fans immediately fell into Motivated Reasoning

Motivated reasoning is confirmation bias taken to the next level. Motivated reasoning leads people to confirm what they already believe, while ignoring contrary data. But it also drives people to develop elaborate rationalizations to justify holding beliefs that logic and evidence have shown to be wrong. Motivated reasoning responds defensively to contrary evidence, actively discrediting such evidence or its source without logical or evidentiary justification. Clearly, motivated reasoning is emotion driven. It seems to be assumed by social scientists that motivated reasoning is driven by a desire to avoid cognitive dissonance. Self-delusion, in other words, feels good, and that's what motivates people to vehemently defend obvious falsehoods.
@snufkin

Yeah, the people who have been so deadset against the idea of Kylo being redeemed or even sharing interactions with Rey that go beyond something remotely antagonistic are absolutely going to hate The Last Jedi, and they only have themselves to blame for it. It's why I don't feel any sympathy for them right now, especially after they way they've treated our fandom for the last two years. Your point about Rian Johnson's filmography - completely agreed. These people clearly must have not done their homework, as what they want for Kylo's character so bad -  the generic baddie who just becomes more and more evil - doesn't align with the morally complex, grey characters that are prevalent in his films.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 1:58 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:
@snufkin wrote:If it does turn out that Rey's dad is a deadbeat hippie, I will be super disappointed with Rian Johnson and Lucasfilm because that's just so unimaginative and lazy. Even if people bicker over the parentage theories, at least they're all creative and involve a certain amount of imagination. Versus just making it the epic story of a girl who only matters because of who her dad was and even then, she has the worst childhood and adolescence of all the characters in the franchise, but it's okay 'cause he's a hero.

Eh, still think anybody who participates in discussions here will have a far better experience of being surprised by the movie than anybody who's spent the past 2 years sincerely believing that it'll be Rey goes to Ache-to for a purity ball and then reunites with the Beautiful Friendship Gang to murder-avenge Kyle Ron. Followed by her and Finn have an Ewok themed wedding while Rose agrees to be their bridesmaid because she's there to be the goofy nerd with a crush on Finn and Rey's wannabe friend. And anybody who's suddenly freaking out about anything that's come out of the latest round of press comments should've done their homework two years ago and watched Rian Johnson's films. The themes and character arcs/types should be a big clue why he got hired in the first place. It's not that this crowd are a**holes or that the filmmakers are horrible people, it's that a lot of fans immediately fell into Motivated Reasoning

Motivated reasoning is confirmation bias taken to the next level. Motivated reasoning leads people to confirm what they already believe, while ignoring contrary data. But it also drives people to develop elaborate rationalizations to justify holding beliefs that logic and evidence have shown to be wrong. Motivated reasoning responds defensively to contrary evidence, actively discrediting such evidence or its source without logical or evidentiary justification. Clearly, motivated reasoning is emotion driven. It seems to be assumed by social scientists that motivated reasoning is driven by a desire to avoid cognitive dissonance. Self-delusion, in other words, feels good, and that's what motivates people to vehemently defend obvious falsehoods.
@snufkin

Yeah, the people who have been so deadset against the idea of Kylo being redeemed or even sharing interactions with Rey that go beyond something remotely antagonistic are absolutely going to hate The Last Jedi, and they only have themselves to blame for it. It's why I don't feel any sympathy for them right now, especially after they way they've treated our fandom for the last two years. Your point about Rian Johnson's filmography - completely agreed. These people clearly must have not done their homework, as what they want for Kylo's character so bad -  the generic baddie who just becomes more and more evil - doesn't align with the morally complex, grey characters that are prevalent in his films.
@Kylo Rey

They will love this movie and they will watch it hundred times but it will be hard for them to admit it.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by snufkin on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 2:11 pm

@Irina de France - Sorry for making you barf. I actually understand how some fans came to believe that the movie could be setting up a romance between Rey and Finn after watching Wonder Woman. Because Finn's very much the same mold as Steve Trevor, down to the "OMG we're gonna die" quips. And Rey has her fish out of water moments thanks to spending her formative years isolated from the rest of society. The filmmakers could've have gone that route quite easily between the two of them, including making Kylo her corrupted relative who's the big bad. Except that they didn't do that and now they're super dropping hints hard that "this is not the way you think it's going to go." And like @Kylo Rey said, if they'd just spent a little time checking out Rian Johnson's previous work, it should've been obvious that he gravitates towards morally complex, grey characters. It is a little odd (which is where motivated reasoning come in) to see even supposedly intelligent fans, journalists even, who keep arguing for storylines and character arcs which the actors and filmmakers have expressly stated, are not going to happen.

@ISeeanIsland -  I'm sort of joking about it being an Ewok wedding - being the ST it'd be a Porg wedding with Porgs as the ring bearers.

@Kylo Rey - I can't find it, but there was an actual good comment on one of the articles when they announced the title. Along the lines of
"Brothers Bloom was about a young man who feels trapped as a confidence man/criminal and wants to get out and be a better man. Looper was about a young man who feels trapped as a murderer/hit man and wants to get out to be a better man. And even Breaking Bad's finale, Jesse wants to get out and be a better man. If you think that's not also going to happen with Ben Solo/Kylo Ren getting out from both the Jedi and First Order, then you don't really understand the types of stories and characters Rian Johnson tends to write."

Which is why I tend to think anybody who's freaking out now or who's decided to hate him for not writing what they made up their minds was 'supposed' to happen - you had two years to figure it out. And it wasn't even that hard, just go look at the films and television show he did previously. Conflicted young man involved in criminal activities who years to be someone better (check), toxic and manipulative mentor exploiting young man's insecurities for his own gain (check), young people with raw explosive power that could tip them between good or evil w/out love and support (check), young woman making her way in the world because she has no family or support network (check), young woman being the toughest/strongest out of all the characters (check) et cetera.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 2:38 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Irina de France - Sorry for making you barf. I actually understand how some fans came to believe that the movie could be setting up a romance between Rey and Finn after watching Wonder Woman. Because Finn's very much the same mold as Steve Trevor, down to the "OMG we're gonna die" quips. And Rey has her fish out of water moments thanks to spending her formative years isolated from the rest of society. The filmmakers could've have gone that route quite easily between the two of them, including making Kylo her corrupted relative who's the big bad. Except that they didn't do that and now they're super dropping hints hard that "this is not the way you think it's going to go." And like @Kylo Rey said, if they'd just spent a little time checking out Rian Johnson's previous work, it should've been obvious that he gravitates towards morally complex, grey characters. It is a little odd (which is where motivated reasoning come in) to see even supposedly intelligent fans, journalists even, who keep arguing for storylines and character arcs which the actors and filmmakers have expressly stated, are not going to happen.

@ISeeanIsland -  I'm sort of joking about it being an Ewok wedding - being the ST it'd be a Porg wedding with Porgs as the ring bearers.

@Kylo Rey - I can't find it, but there was an actual good comment on one of the articles when they announced the title. Along the lines of
"Brothers Bloom was about a young man who feels trapped as a confidence man/criminal and wants to get out and be a better man. Looper was about a young man who feels trapped as a murderer/hit man and wants to get out to be a better man. And even Breaking Bad's finale, Jesse wants to get out and be a better man. If you think that's not also going to happen with Ben Solo/Kylo Ren getting out from both the Jedi and First Order, then you don't really understand the types of stories and characters Rian Johnson tends to write."

Which is why I tend to think anybody who's freaking out now or who's decided to hate him for not writing what they made up their minds was 'supposed' to happen - you had two years to figure it out. And it wasn't even that hard, just go look at the films and television show he did previously. Conflicted young man involved in criminal activities who years to be someone better (check), toxic and manipulative mentor exploiting young man's insecurities for his own gain (check), young people with raw explosive power that could tip them between good or evil w/out love and support (check), young woman making her way in the world because she has no family or support network (check), young woman being the toughest/strongest out of all the characters (check) et cetera.
@snufkin

I actually really loved Diana & Steve's relationship whereas I didn't really care for FinnRey (in a romantic sense). I need to check out The Brothers Bloom, I haven't watched that yet. Not going to lie, Kylo/Reylo and everything surrounding it has conjured up some of the most bizarre stuff I've seen in my entire life. It honestly feels surreal now that the film is finally coming out and will confirm what we've been saying all along.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by lauvamp on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 3:11 pm

15 days left, and wondering what I'm going to do with the spoilers thing. I'm a bit lost with premiere dates...9th? 14th? 15th in Spain (I'm going to watch it that day).

When are we supposed to start "being alert" to real spoilers?

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Last edited by lauvamp on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Saracene on Thu 30 Nov 2017, 4:02 pm

I’ve definitely spotted the similarities between Steve and Finn myself, but though Diana and Rey both come from isolated backgrounds, in a way they also start off in a diametrically opposite fashion. Diana grows up a powerful supernatural being among other powerful beings who has a complete handle on her abilities before she leaves, so her journey has nothing to do with her powers, it’s about discovering the ordinary world of humans. Steve is her connection to the world and falling in love with a human is a powerful way to make her feel closer to the humanity. Whereas Rey starts off in an ordinary world, and her character journey is about the force and discovering her powers, which Finn can’t really be a part of, as already seen in TFA. I see Finn have the same relationship with Rey as Han and Leia were to Luke in the OT – he cared about them deeply and they shared adventures together, but his character journey revolved around other force people – Obi Wan, Vader, Yoda, Palpatine.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by snufkin on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 11:01 am

@Kylo Rey I went in to see TFA pretty oblivious and it never occurred to me at all that she and Finn could be a couple or that she had any kind of DNA connection to the original trio and the big emo next generation. It was only afterwards when I started looking around online that I had the same weird experience you did of reading discussions which sounded completely offbase (and arguing that our conclusions were 100% fantasy).

Brothers Bloom is very sweet and Wes Anderson-lite. But there are also parallels to the characters and themes (toxic/manipulative mentor, young woman who's spent her life lonely and who outfoxes/wins the heart of the conflicted young male lead) hinted at for TLJ. And come to think of it, also anybody who's suddenly in shock and angry about the director choice, the man posted clips from West Side Story to his Twitter account in the run up to the actual trailer coming out. Like that should also have been enough of a hint for people to realize that it wasn't going to be about a young girl meeting her deadbeat hippie dad so she can eventually murder her awful cousin.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by adamdrivershair on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 12:53 pm

@lauvamp wrote:15 days left, and wondering what I'm going to do with the spoilers thing. I'm a bit lost with premiere dates...9th? 14th? 15th in Spain (I'm going to watch it that day).

When are we supposed to start "being alert" to real spoilers?

Question
@lauvamp

According to sleemo, the world premiere is the 9th (previous believed date was the 8th; now confirmed via Twitter it's the 9th). The Japan premiere is the 6th, and they will see a half hour of footage.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by lauvamp on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 3:36 pm

@adamdrivershair Thanks for the info, I take note! Smile
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Mana on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 4:21 am

Will there be a non spoiler reaction thread?
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Men on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 9:29 am

SO this weekend, Johnson shaking his "no" and saying something not in the affirmative when asked by Fallon if Rey is Luke's daughter.

Then Boyega perhaps debunking Reynobi (haven't watched it yet, going on descriptions).

Arhhhhhh!

You see why I want to know beforehand.

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by snufkin on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 2:31 pm

@Kylo Men wrote:SO this weekend, Johnson shaking his "no" and saying something not in the affirmative when asked by Fallon if Rey is Luke's daughter.

Then Boyega perhaps debunking Reynobi (haven't watched it yet, going on descriptions).

Arhhhhhh!

You see why I want to know beforehand.
@Kylo Men

Just think of Perfect Tommy in Buckaroo Bonzai repeating his mantra while watching the jet car approach the mountain, "Be cool be cool, she'll hold."
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Starliteprism on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 4:24 pm

@Kylo Men wrote:SO this weekend, Johnson shaking his "no" and saying something not in the affirmative when asked by Fallon if Rey is Luke's daughter.

Then Boyega perhaps debunking Reynobi (haven't watched it yet, going on descriptions).

Arhhhhhh!

You see why I want to know beforehand.
@Kylo Men

Think Boyega tweeted that he was watching the film last night. When was this debunking?
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by CienaRee on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 4:42 pm

@Starliteprism wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:SO this weekend, Johnson shaking his "no" and saying something not in the affirmative when asked by Fallon if Rey is Luke's daughter.

Then Boyega perhaps debunking Reynobi (haven't watched it yet, going on descriptions).

Arhhhhhh!

You see why I want to know beforehand.
@Kylo Men

Think Boyega tweeted that he was watching the film last night. When was this debunking?
@Starliteprism
I think it was in an interview a day after he had watched TLJ so definitely something to pay attention to.

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Starliteprism on Sun 03 Dec 2017, 4:46 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@Starliteprism wrote:
@Kylo Men wrote:SO this weekend, Johnson shaking his "no" and saying something not in the affirmative when asked by Fallon if Rey is Luke's daughter.

Then Boyega perhaps debunking Reynobi (haven't watched it yet, going on descriptions).

Arhhhhhh!

You see why I want to know beforehand.
@Kylo Men

Think Boyega tweeted that he was watching the film last night. When was this debunking?
@Starliteprism
I think it was in an interview a day after he had watched TLJ so definitely something to pay attention to.
@CienaRee

Ok..Well, not going to read too much into it, honestly... Still have a slight hope of a Kenobi connection. :-p
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Saracene on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 5:22 am

I'm trying to walk the fine line between just enough spoilers and too much spoilers. One thing I really don't want to know going in is the backstory of Luke's Jedi school, probably because it's one aspect I really have no theories on so I'm not eager to find out if I'm right. Likewise with Rey's backstory (at this point I really don't think she's Related).
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kylo Men on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 6:57 pm

At this point, I think actually reading the spoilers is the best way to stay totally oblivious.

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Kessel on Thu 07 Dec 2017, 7:47 pm

@Kylo Men wrote:At this point,  I think actually reading the spoilers is the best way to stay totally oblivious.
@Kylo Men

Yeah, the more we see, the more confused we become. Especially without context.

At this point, I'm treating every recent released "spoiler" (except the VD leak), as fake until Sat. I'll stay more sane that way, lol.

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Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:42 pm

@ZioRen wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Blackcanary wrote:
@Darth Dingbat wrote:I just realised there was some bits and bobs in the BTS footage that didn't make an appearance in TLJ. For instance, Rose's new hairdo (or was that perhaps her original hairdo which they then changed to the Charlie's Angels 'do?). Or that bit with Leia saluting Poe, Finn and Rose who seem to be going somewhere with bags and backpacks. Probably some others as well. I don't remember seeing that shot of Rey lifting her ignited lightsaber above her head with her rain cloak on. Nor do I remember seeing that shot of seated sad Kylo sharply turning his head towards something? Was that in the film?

No Iceland planet either, unless some of the Crait landscape shots were Iceland. But there was that curious publicity shot of Rey in an Icelandic landscape, and that particular type of landscape never made an appearance at all.
@Darth Dingbat

Rian even said Iceland was his favourite place to film so...????

I was listening to the MSW reaction and they were really puzzled by the lack of things like the crashed ship (which they had filming images of). I have zero clue where that might have fitted into the narrative.

RJ said the original cut was over 3 hours, so it seems like there was a lot snipped.

@Blackcanary

And Luke's compass, the origins of which were even explained in Battlefront. Where was that?
@Darth Dingbat

Catching up and don't know if anyone answered this, but someone lightened up a shot from Kylo's room/hut in his flashback so they could see what Ben Solo's lightsaber looked like, and Luke's compass was on the table alongside it! Not sure what that means, exactly, but it was in the movie.
@ZioRen

D'you guys think it'll be important for Ep 9?

And dyou think that the ship Luke saw in the horizon was possibly the KOR coming to collect artifacts? sorta farfetched, I know, but after predicting Shirtless Kylo and gloveless hand holding, anything is possible from this forum. haha

And then the KOR give it to Kylo who finds it pointing towards Rey all the time. Hahaha POTC feels
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by ZioRen on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:47 pm

The 'ship crashing' scene on Ahch-To being something filmed for IX for convenience's sake (since they were already there and set up) actually sounds pretty logical. Then again, I'm not sure how that all lines up with Trevorrow and his firing timeline-wise.
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by CienaRee on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:47 pm

You know since this movie has caused some mixed reactions in the fandom I actually can't wait for the novelization I wonder if some things will be better explained there and how different would it be experiencing everything on paper vs on screen.

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 5:21 pm

@CienaRee wrote:You know since this movie has caused some mixed reactions in the fandom I actually can't wait for the novelization I wonder if some things will be better explained there and how different would it be experiencing everything on paper vs on screen.
@CienaRee

I absolutely agree. I'm usually enjoying the novels even more. I was really disappointed when it was clear the novel will be released in March...

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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Little_Boots on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 5:56 pm

So was Kylo right about Reys parents? They are literally nobodies who sold her for booze?
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Re: Discussion: TLJ Movie Spoilers/Rumors

Post by Maria Antonietta on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 6:12 pm

@Little_Boots wrote:So was Kylo right about Reys parents? They are literally nobodies who sold her for booze?
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Yep
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