The Renperor thread

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:12 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:On my third viewing I noticed that Rey left him his lightsaber. Like, it's directly next to him when Hux enters the throne room and finds him knocked out on his side. She really should have taken that thing with her. Come on, Rey. Think for a minute. You bothered to gather the broken pieces of your saber but left Renperor with his weapon?

Speaking of which, she should have just dragged him back onto the Falcon, stole those Force cuffs. The End.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rey totally f****d up there. She could have killed him, dragged him with her to the Resistance, exposed him as a traitor/usurper etc. She knew what he wanted and left him there to act on it. Kylo is no saint, but she could have avoided the Crait fiasco.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:18 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:On my third viewing I noticed that Rey left him his lightsaber. Like, it's directly next to him when Hux enters the throne room and finds him knocked out on his side. She really should have taken that thing with her. Come on, Rey. Think for a minute. You bothered to gather the broken pieces of your saber but left Renperor with his weapon?

Speaking of which, she should have just dragged him back onto the Falcon, stole those Force cuffs. The End.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rey totally f****d up there. She could have killed him, dragged him with her to the Resistance, exposed him as a traitor/usurper etc. She knew what he wanted and left him there to act on it. Kylo is no saint, but she could have avoided the Crait fiasco.
@Piper Maru

If she dragged him - he'll end up dead or imprisoned. Even with Leia around.

If she killed him - well no explanation needed, she still cares. Same goes for exposing him. Hux knows or suspects what Kylo did, so one way or the other Kylo will get exposed, but not by Rey. She cares too much for that, which makes me curious for their probably inevitable lightsaber battle. It seems to me neither will be emotionally able to strike the other down. Even with what Kylo said about destroying her.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:19 pm

@DarthRen

And that's why it baffles me that people can't understand that she f****d up because SHE CARES FOR HIM.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by snufkin on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:22 pm

@Piper Maru I actually thought that considering how they show Rose dragging Finn twice and then Finn in turn dragging her in after she stops his suicide run. Rey just left him there with his saber and took off, so no wonder he had a meltdown.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:24 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:@DarthRen

And that's why it baffles me that people can't understand that she f****d up because SHE CARES FOR HIM.
@Piper Maru

Just my view but I don't think she fucked up by leaving him there. She did in other areas but imo not there. Crait or some another annihilation of the Ressistance would have happened regardless. It was a matter of time before FO with their unlimited resources would catch up with them.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:37 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:@DarthRen

And that's why it baffles me that people can't understand that she f****d up because SHE CARES FOR HIM.
@Piper Maru

Just my view but I don't think she fucked up by leaving him there. She did in other areas but imo not there. Crait or some another annihilation of the Ressistance would have happened regardless. It was a matter of time before FO with their unlimited resources would catch up with them.
@DarthRen

Oh, definitely. The Resistance was doomed no matter what Rey or Kylo did.

The point is: Rey's "failure" in the entire movie happened because she cared for Ben. She cared SO MUCH for him, that she acted impulsively and actually made things worse.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by snufkin on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 1:54 pm

@Piper Maru I thought the part with her failure regarding Ben is hit on during the conversation between Yoda and Luke (which wow, never liked those two and they worked for me in this film). Luke's success with Vader fed the celebrity/myth which grew up around him and fed the hubris which led to him causing Ben's fall. So his early success fed his future failure. And in turn, we see Rey rush off to "save" Ben the same way Luke rushed off to save his friends, which was a complete and crushing failure. The same thing happened here, Rey failed in her attempt to actually save him, which is that he's the only person who can now actually save himself from his own worst tendencies. Snoke's gone and everything else is 100% on him. So thinking about that, if they run with that line of thought into the next movie, the previous failure will teach a lesson which hopefully leads to future success. Rey fucked it up badly because, like Luke, she was impulsive and reacted purely out of how much she cares about Ben (see getting in the fight with Luke once she realized what had happened between the two of them). But they also keep hitting on the point of hope and how it's never gone even when you can't see it. So things look pretty bad between the two of them at the end, but there's still hope that the next time it happens, there will be a success instead of failure.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 3:09 pm

My interpretation was that she was developping feelings for him despite her better judgment. Her vision offered her an easy solution. He would turn, the war would be over and they could be Jedi together (or something). If she went to him, trusted in his conflict she could become a hero just like Luke, who believed there was good in the most hated man in the galaxy. She rushes in, and, while their mutual feelings are enough to free them from Snoke, they still want different things from each other. Tragic and dramatic and whatnot.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 3:48 pm

Putting this here instead of Tweets since it’s spoilery. I feel like Matt answers questions in a way that satisfies the asker, but that doesn’t give anything away. Kylo’s tone when he says “I’ll destroy her, etc.” rings of false threat.


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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 4:02 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:@DarthRen

And that's why it baffles me that people can't understand that she f****d up because SHE CARES FOR HIM.
@Piper Maru

Just my view but I don't think she fucked up by leaving him there. She did in other areas but imo not there. Crait or some another annihilation of the Ressistance would have happened regardless. It was a matter of time before FO with their unlimited resources would catch up with them.
@DarthRen

Oh, definitely. The Resistance was doomed no matter what Rey or Kylo did.

The point is: Rey's "failure" in the entire movie happened because she cared for Ben. She cared SO MUCH for him, that she acted impulsively and actually made things worse.
@Piper Maru

Oh, like that. I thought you only meant throne room scene, not the whole movie. Then, I agree. It was like going from mistake to another between all the haracters except few.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:Putting this here instead of Tweets since it’s spoilery. I feel like Matt answers questions in a way that satisfies the asker, but that doesn’t give anything away. Kylo’s tone when he says “I’ll destroy her, etc.” rings of false threat.


@Cowgirlsamurai

And then he gave her puppy eyes. Question is more than the actually pre-Crait, during Crait battle, what is his state of mind post-Crait. He must be emotionally so empty, sinking more and more towards the dark side. How far he can descend with it? I can see them fight - charged with anger, bertrayal from both towards the other, passion but not striking each other down.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 4:12 pm

After this comparison with a person who steals for drug money because she/he is out of control/desperate, I don't know how anyone can say that Kylo Ren is truly evil-cold-manipulative. That boy needs therapy and a group hug, not an execution.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by PalmettoBlue on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 4:47 pm

@Piper Maru I agree. Some serious time meditating and finding some sort of equilibrium is not a want, it’s a need for Kylo.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 12:56 am

I think Rey’s failure came about because she set out to save Ben Solo for the wrong reasons. Watching the film again, I couldn’t help but notice when she told Luke she was going to him, she mentioned how he could win the war for them, if he was turned. Unfortunately the greater good has always come first in Ben Solo’s life - first the Republic then the rebellion in his mother’s eyes, while his uncle tried to murder him in his bed for the ’greater good’. In his mind, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Which is why the rage at the end - he’s the type who deals with his hurt through anger. Kylo already regrets his actions. But, the only Force sensitive in a bunch of rebels dedicated to a cause, Force bonded to a man they loathe, without family,how long before Rey regrets her choice? Rose’s character was introduced for a reason - Finn now has someone of his own. Rey is alone....again.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 1:12 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I think Rey’s failure came about because she set out to save Ben Solo for the wrong reasons. Watching the film again, I couldn’t help but notice when she told Luke she was going to him, she mentioned how he could win the war for them, if he was turned. Unfortunately the greater good has always come first in Ben Solo’s life - first the Republic then the rebellion in his mother’s eyes, while his uncle tried to murder him in his bed for the ’greater good’. In his mind, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Which is why the rage at the end - he’s the type who deals with his hurt through anger. Kylo already regrets his actions. But, the only Force sensitive in a bunch of rebels dedicated to a cause, Force bonded to a man they loathe, without family,how long before Rey regrets her choice? Rose’s character was introduced for a reason - Finn now has  someone of his own. Rey is alone....again.
@motherofpearl1

Yes, I thought the same. Although I'm sure she had also personal feelings for wanting to save him- whatever she saw when they touched hands was also about her future with him- but she isn't ready to admit or show her feelings (yet) ... and his social skills are even worse than hers so he didn't get it. From his point of view she didn't care about him- and choosing the greater good over him- just like everyone he cared about...

It reminds me a bit of Han and Leia - at the beginning of ESB when Han was about to leave and Leia asked him to stay- not because she cared about him but because he is a "great leader" and they needed him. Han replied something like: "and what about YOU?"
Ben is like his father when it comes to that... he wants someone to care form HIM. But when he finally gets it I'm sure he will do anything for her. Wink
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:14 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:I think Rey’s failure came about because she set out to save Ben Solo for the wrong reasons. Watching the film again, I couldn’t help but notice when she told Luke she was going to him, she mentioned how he could win the war for them, if he was turned. Unfortunately the greater good has always come first in Ben Solo’s life - first the Republic then the rebellion in his mother’s eyes, while his uncle tried to murder him in his bed for the ’greater good’. In his mind, Rey chose the Resistance over him. Which is why the rage at the end - he’s the type who deals with his hurt through anger. Kylo already regrets his actions. But, the only Force sensitive in a bunch of rebels dedicated to a cause, Force bonded to a man they loathe, without family,how long before Rey regrets her choice? Rose’s character was introduced for a reason - Finn now has  someone of his own. Rey is alone....again.
@motherofpearl1

Yes, I thought the same. Although I'm sure she had also personal feelings for wanting to save him- whatever she saw when they touched hands was also about her future with him- but she isn't ready to admit or show her feelings (yet) ... and his social skills are even worse than hers so he didn't get it. From his point of view she didn't care about him- and choosing the greater good over him- just like everyone he cared about...

It reminds me a bit of Han and Leia - at the beginning of ESB when Han was about to leave and Leia asked him to stay- not because she cared about him but because he is a "great leader" and they needed him. Han replied something like: "and what about YOU?"
Ben is like his father when it comes to that... he wants someone to care form HIM. But when he finally gets it I'm sure he will do anything for her. Wink
@Night Huntress

Well put. Fact is, she could have killed him while he was unconscious, but she didn't; she also left him his lightsabre, as @FrolickingFizzgig pointed out. Thing is, although Rey understands him up to a point she has yet to discover the real reasons for his appalling emotional damage - she knows about his uncle's murder attempt, but not his abandonment by his parents, or just exactly how long Snoke was in his head. The FB will likely show her more - and another thing regarding the Resistance. What will they do if they discover she could have killed Kylo Ren and chose to leave him alive?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 6:38 am

his intentions are quite clear, it is true, however when a person wants to cut his ties with other people he will only aggravate his situation, just as Luke says. despite he killed Han, his memory, the heart is inside of Ben. Luke will always be with him just like Rey. But he did not listen to his words and just as a child, attacked without thinking about it. He could eliminate the past, behaving like an adult avoiding the duel, being free of pain, but anger, betrayal led him to attack Luke.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:47 am

[strike]
@motherofpearl1 wrote:

@Night Huntress

Well put. Fact is, she could have killed him while he was unconscious, but she didn't; she also left him his lightsabre, as @FrolickingFizzgig pointed out.
@motherofpearl1

Yes, but she didn't save him either- she left him there to fate... just like on Starkillerbase. On a severely damaged ship  Nope
Ben didn't kill her either - he saved her from Snoke... a hopeless situation she have to blame herself for. Why exactly should she kill him? Because he didn't want to join the Resistance and made her an offer she won't agree with? scratch

Don't get me wrong- I understand Rey's motivation... but praise her for letting Ben alive? She was the aggressor by force-grabbing the lightsaber from him- he didn't do anything to her that would justify her killing him- for the greater good, maybe- but there's that again. The greater good - who caused more damaged to her precious Resistance? Maybe she should consider offing Poe instead (just kidding Wink )
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Starliteprism on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:02 am

@DarthRen wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:On my third viewing I noticed that Rey left him his lightsaber. Like, it's directly next to him when Hux enters the throne room and finds him knocked out on his side. She really should have taken that thing with her. Come on, Rey. Think for a minute. You bothered to gather the broken pieces of your saber but left Renperor with his weapon?

Speaking of which, she should have just dragged him back onto the Falcon, stole those Force cuffs. The End.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rey totally f****d up there. She could have killed him, dragged him with her to the Resistance, exposed him as a traitor/usurper etc. She knew what he wanted and left him there to act on it. Kylo is no saint, but she could have avoided the Crait fiasco.
@Piper Maru

If she dragged him - he'll end up dead or imprisoned. Even with Leia around.

If she killed him - well no explanation needed, she still cares. Same goes for exposing him. Hux knows or suspects what Kylo did, so one way or the other Kylo will get exposed, but not by Rey. She cares too much for that, which makes me curious for their probably inevitable lightsaber battle. It seems to me neither will be emotionally able to strike the other down. Even with what Kylo said about destroying her.
@DarthRen

I can see them attempting to battle, but then I can imagine Kylo Ren/Ben Solo whispering through their forcebond that he loves her too much and knows that she feels the same, to lay down arms and she gives in, mic dropping their light sabers in unison, staring longingly into one another's eyes and planting a big old smacker on one another.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:07 am

This is so true:

https://wolfcall-nichoe.tumblr.com/post/169079728555

EDIT:NVM It seems that Matt suggests he's still in Destroy mode in both scenes.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:17 am

@vaderito wrote:This is so true:

https://wolfcall-nichoe.tumblr.com/post/169079728555

EDIT:NVM It seems that Matt suggests he's still in Destroy mode in both scenes.
@vaderito
He didn't say that. He was talking about the Luke scene only.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:18 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:This is so true:

https://wolfcall-nichoe.tumblr.com/post/169079728555

EDIT:NVM It seems that Matt suggests he's still in Destroy mode in both scenes.
@vaderito
He didn't say that. He was talking about the Luke scene only.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Ah, yes, SG is very specific to a fault.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 1:10 pm

@Starliteprism wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:On my third viewing I noticed that Rey left him his lightsaber. Like, it's directly next to him when Hux enters the throne room and finds him knocked out on his side. She really should have taken that thing with her. Come on, Rey. Think for a minute. You bothered to gather the broken pieces of your saber but left Renperor with his weapon?

Speaking of which, she should have just dragged him back onto the Falcon, stole those Force cuffs. The End.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rey totally f****d up there. She could have killed him, dragged him with her to the Resistance, exposed him as a traitor/usurper etc. She knew what he wanted and left him there to act on it. Kylo is no saint, but she could have avoided the Crait fiasco.
@Piper Maru

If she dragged him - he'll end up dead or imprisoned. Even with Leia around.

If she killed him - well no explanation needed, she still cares. Same goes for exposing him. Hux knows or suspects what Kylo did, so one way or the other Kylo will get exposed, but not by Rey. She cares too much for that, which makes me curious for their probably inevitable lightsaber battle. It seems to me neither will be emotionally able to strike the other down. Even with what Kylo said about destroying her.
@DarthRen

I can see them attempting to battle, but then I can imagine Kylo Ren/Ben Solo whispering through their forcebond that he loves her too much and knows that she feels the same, to lay down arms and she gives in, mic dropping their light sabers in unison, staring longingly into one another's eyes and planting a big old smacker on one another.
@Starliteprism

I think they'll fight because you know. both feel bertrayed by the other. It will be sexually charged, romantic but I doubt very much these two will ever try to harm each other. Since Kylo is more anrgy prone, passionate ... imagine him yelling at her to fight him, Rey standing and laying down her weapon. Eventho, Hux and Poe and co tried to convince them to kill one another.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ZioRen on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 2:00 pm

If that face in Kylo's last scene is meant to still be "destroy" mode than someone seriously failed at directing Adam. And the lighting. And Rey. And pretty much everything about that scene.  Laughing
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Starliteprism on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 2:02 pm

@DarthRen wrote:
@Starliteprism wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:On my third viewing I noticed that Rey left him his lightsaber. Like, it's directly next to him when Hux enters the throne room and finds him knocked out on his side. She really should have taken that thing with her. Come on, Rey. Think for a minute. You bothered to gather the broken pieces of your saber but left Renperor with his weapon?

Speaking of which, she should have just dragged him back onto the Falcon, stole those Force cuffs. The End.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Rey totally f****d up there. She could have killed him, dragged him with her to the Resistance, exposed him as a traitor/usurper etc. She knew what he wanted and left him there to act on it. Kylo is no saint, but she could have avoided the Crait fiasco.
@Piper Maru

If she dragged him - he'll end up dead or imprisoned. Even with Leia around.

If she killed him - well no explanation needed, she still cares. Same goes for exposing him. Hux knows or suspects what Kylo did, so one way or the other Kylo will get exposed, but not by Rey. She cares too much for that, which makes me curious for their probably inevitable lightsaber battle. It seems to me neither will be emotionally able to strike the other down. Even with what Kylo said about destroying her.
@DarthRen

I can see them attempting to battle, but then I can imagine Kylo Ren/Ben Solo whispering through their forcebond that he loves her too much and knows that she feels the same, to lay down arms and she gives in, mic dropping their light sabers in unison, staring longingly into one another's eyes and planting a big old smacker on one another.
@Starliteprism

I think they'll fight because you know. both feel bertrayed by the other. It will be sexually charged, romantic but I doubt very much these two will ever try to harm each other. Since Kylo is more anrgy prone, passionate ... imagine him yelling at her to fight him, Rey standing and laying down her weapon. Eventho, Hux and Poe and co tried to convince them to kill one another.
@DarthRen

I would order a cup of that! :-p
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by MeadowofAshes on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 9:59 pm

The time has come to choose a side. You must choose: Team Renperor or Team Benperor?

Renperor: Kylo Ren will be a #Terrible Renperor who is hated by everyone the galaxy over. Hux and Poe will both be batting to bring him down. It won't last 5 minutes before Reylo becomes an Us Against the Galaxy situation.
Benperor: Kylo Ren will mature and become a #Benevolent Renperor for a time, still despised by Hux and the Resistance equally, but with the rest of the galaxy's backing, now he has more to lose by choosing to give up all he ever thought he wanted to be with the woman he loves.
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