The Renperor thread

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 4:55 am

@MeadowofAshes wrote:The time has come to choose a side. You must choose: Team Renperor or Team Benperor?

Renperor: Kylo Ren will be a #Terrible Renperor who is hated by everyone the galaxy over. Hux and Poe will both be batting to bring him down. It won't last 5 minutes before Reylo becomes an Us Against the Galaxy situation.
Benperor: Kylo Ren will mature and become a #Benevolent Renperor for a time, still despised by Hux and the Resistance equally, but with the rest of the galaxy's backing, now he has more to lose by choosing to give up all he ever thought he wanted to be with the woman he loves.
@MeadowofAshes

I'll choose team Benperor. Not sure how realistic it is.. but it would make a much more interesting story in my opinion.

I read a FF yesterday with kind of that scenario. And it was so well written that I can actually see that happening. A conversation between Ben and Hux is still fresh in my memory."General Hux what causes rebellions?" Hux answers with: "Ignorance, Savagery and Lies spread by enemies." Ben contradicts him: "No, Rebellions are born from fear and suffering. They rise out of starvation not having the tools and income you need to put a roof over your head and that of your family. We will not force their loyalty thru fear, history has shown such methods only work for a short time and soon you have to fight an uprising. We'll have to make them trust us to keep them fed and save..."

It would be a great opportunity to show Ben really wants to start something new- make things better and not just being power-hungry.
He IS Leia's son and the grandson of Padmé - he should have inherited some of those political skills and not just the Skywalker/Solo temper.
It would also show his offer to Rey in a totally different light.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:18 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:The time has come to choose a side. You must choose: Team Renperor or Team Benperor?

Renperor: Kylo Ren will be a #Terrible Renperor who is hated by everyone the galaxy over. Hux and Poe will both be batting to bring him down. It won't last 5 minutes before Reylo becomes an Us Against the Galaxy situation.
Benperor: Kylo Ren will mature and become a #Benevolent Renperor for a time, still despised by Hux and the Resistance equally, but with the rest of the galaxy's backing, now he has more to lose by choosing to give up all he ever thought he wanted to be with the woman he loves.
@MeadowofAshes

I'll choose team Benperor. Not sure how realistic it is.. but it would make a much more interesting story in my opinion.

I read a FF yesterday with kind of that scenario. And it was so well written that I can actually see that happening. A conversation between Ben and Hux is still fresh in my memory."General Hux what causes rebellions?" Hux answers with: "Ignorance, Savagery and Lies spread by enemies." Ben contradicts him: "No, Rebellions are born from fear and suffering. They rise out of starvation not having the tools and income you need to put a roof over your head and that of your family. We will not force their loyalty thru fear, history has shown such methods only work for a short time and soon you have to fight an uprising. We'll have to make them trust us to keep them fed and save..."

It would be a great opportunity to show Ben really wants to start something new- make things better and not just being power-hungry.
He IS Leia's son and the grandson of Padmé - he should have inherited some of those political skills and not just the Skywalker/Solo temper.
It would also show his offer to Rey in a totally different light.
@Night Huntress

Yeah, I am on Team Benperor too. I think his Crait meltdown can't be topped. I think it was like his psychological extinction burst or something, because he can't keep going nuts forever. In Episode IX he needs to move out of adolescence. I think he's at a really devastating point at the end of TLJ. I think that he probably thinks that he will never have anyone, so his only purpose in life will be to do something decent for the galaxy. I actually do think he has some notion of how the galaxy can be bettered. When he is calm he is highly intelligent ... And he might be depressively calm in IX because he may just be numb and burned out on emotion after the terribleness of TLJ. He had hope for a partner, for love, and bringing up that hope in himself was huge for him. I bet he has no hope now.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Saracene on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:19 am

I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SkyStar on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:25 am

@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Geralt_Riv on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:43 am

@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

Phasma's clones? Laughing I am #TeamBenperor. Claps
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:44 am

@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

I think he will get rid of the stormtrooper program.  For starters, it's Hux's power base.  Getting rid of them is a method of self-protection.

Also, they had Kylo criticize the program in TFA.  (I don't believe in Plotgate at all.  They have some kind of plan, because when Rian followed JJ's screenplay, he followed everything that was said *and* everything that was left unsaid, but what is embedded in the script as background information.  Adam said he knew things about Kylo from the beginning that only came out in TLJ and he knows things that he doesn't know will ever come out, and he knows where Kylo ends up.  I doubt Kylo's arc is the only thing for which there is an outline).  

Finally, if he gets rid of the stormtrooper program and kind of "stands down" from an aggressive war footing, not only will he get Rey's sympathy, but likely Finn's to some extent.  That may have been the reason that they had Hux slap Finn in the face, because that antagonism will come up again.  Phasma was only the facilitator of the program ... Hux is its current architect.  

Of course if Kylo/Ben does eliminate the stormtroopers, Hux will go for his throat ... so you have internal civil war ... but also, Poe will smell the vulnerability and will want to go for his throat too.  Rey and possibly Finn will not go for that, since getting rid of the stormtroopers would be a huge step in the right direction.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:47 am

@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

either Clones or he will make it appealing with other incentives...I can really see him do this. The question is: will he be able to access the same resources Snoke had? We still don't really now how the FO were funded.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SkyStar on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:51 am

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

I think he will get rid of the stormtrooper program.  For starters, it's Hux's power base.  Getting rid of them is a method of self-protection.

Also, they had Kylo criticize the program in TFA.  (I don't believe in Plotgate at all.  They have some kind of plan, because when Rian followed JJ's screenplay, he followed everything that was said *and* everything that was left unsaid, but what is embedded in the script as background information.  Adam said he knew things about Kylo from the beginning that only came out in TLJ and he knows things that he doesn't know will ever come out, and he knows where Kylo ends up.  I doubt Kylo's arc is the only thing for which there is an outline).  

Finally, if he gets rid of the stormtrooper program and kind of "stands down" from an aggressive war footing, not only will he get Rey's sympathy, but likely Finn's to some extent.  That may have been the reason that they had Hux slap Finn in the face, because that antagonism will come up again.  Phasma was only the facilitator of the program ... Hux is its current architect.  

Of course if Kylo/Ben does eliminate the stormtroopers, Hux will go for his throat ... so you have internal civil war ... but also, Poe will smell the vulnerability and will want to go for his throat too.  Rey and possibly Finn will not go for that, since getting rid of the stormtroopers would be a huge step in the right direction.
@SoloSideCousin

At least the program could set up a real conflict with Kylo and Hux - much more then - ha I hate this guy. Because from an evil point of view Hux can have the higher ground in FO as to show that Ren is completely mad if he wants to do that. But it would be fun if they have this argument about brainwashing and program return - as to where Kylo is the one who in a way understands how it feels to be brainwashed. For Hux its just numbers and figures. Its poetry!

@Geralt_Riv your Phasma suggestion is hilarious! Very Happy
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:52 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

either Clones or he will make it appealing with other incentives...I can really see him do this. The question is: will he be able to access the same resources Snoke had? We still don't really now how the FO were funded.
@Night Huntress

I think he could too. Recruit in forgotten planets.  Get away from an all-human army.  Create something a massive public works program for the neglected areas of the galaxy.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:55 am

@SkyStar wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I can't really pick either team, because it doesn't matter how well-intentioned Kylo is. If you're in charge of a Plain Evil organization like the FO you have to dismantle it completely to have any chance of a truly benevolent rulership. And I don't see that happening.
@Saracene

Right. The thing that doesn't sit right with me is the stormtrooper program. He needs to get rid off it, otherwise how is that good. At the same time, who will fight for the FO?
@SkyStar

I think he will get rid of the stormtrooper program.  For starters, it's Hux's power base.  Getting rid of them is a method of self-protection.

Also, they had Kylo criticize the program in TFA.  (I don't believe in Plotgate at all.  They have some kind of plan, because when Rian followed JJ's screenplay, he followed everything that was said *and* everything that was left unsaid, but what is embedded in the script as background information.  Adam said he knew things about Kylo from the beginning that only came out in TLJ and he knows things that he doesn't know will ever come out, and he knows where Kylo ends up.  I doubt Kylo's arc is the only thing for which there is an outline).  

Finally, if he gets rid of the stormtrooper program and kind of "stands down" from an aggressive war footing, not only will he get Rey's sympathy, but likely Finn's to some extent.  That may have been the reason that they had Hux slap Finn in the face, because that antagonism will come up again.  Phasma was only the facilitator of the program ... Hux is its current architect.  

Of course if Kylo/Ben does eliminate the stormtroopers, Hux will go for his throat ... so you have internal civil war ... but also, Poe will smell the vulnerability and will want to go for his throat too.  Rey and possibly Finn will not go for that, since getting rid of the stormtroopers would be a huge step in the right direction.
@SoloSideCousin

At least the program could set up a real conflict with Kylo and Hux - much more then - ha I hate this guy. Because from an evil point of view Hux can have the higher ground in FO as to show that Ren is completely mad if he wants to do that. But it would be fun if they have this argument about brainwashing and program return - as to where Kylo is the one who in a way understands how it feels to be brainwashed. For Hux its just numbers and figures. Its poetry!

@Geralt_Riv your Phasma suggestion is hilarious! Very Happy
@SkyStar

Exactly!!! This would be especially powerful if they actually showed flashbacks of Ben being groomed/brainwashed/manipulated when he was very young. In the Phasma book they used all kinds of subliminal techniques, like playing recording while the stormtroopers slept. Ben could have been very much manipulated in a similar way, with a little voice in his head, with Snoke playing with his dreams. Maybe he felt so dark to Luke because Snoke was wreaking havoc on him in a dream space?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 5:58 am

@SkyStar wrote:
At least the program could set up a real conflict with Kylo and Hux - much more then - ha I hate this guy. Because from an evil point of view Hux can have the higher ground in FO as to show that Ren is completely mad if he wants to do that. But it would be fun if they have this argument about brainwashing and program return - as to where Kylo is the one who in a way understands how it feels to be brainwashed. For Hux its just numbers and figures. Its poetry!
@SkyStar

Yeah! And Ben would bring up Finn as the best example against his program (finally Finn is good for something in his mind) - Hux will only sneer and reply that he was ONE exception. And Ben just saying "there will be others..." Stormtrooper uprising confirmed  Razz  Laughing
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SkyStar on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 6:08 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@SkyStar wrote:
At least the program could set up a real conflict with Kylo and Hux - much more then - ha I hate this guy. Because from an evil point of view Hux can have the higher ground in FO as to show that Ren is completely mad if he wants to do that. But it would be fun if they have this argument about brainwashing and program return - as to where Kylo is the one who in a way understands how it feels to be brainwashed. For Hux its just numbers and figures. Its poetry!
@SkyStar

Yeah! And Ben would bring up Finn as the best example against his program (finally Finn is good for something in his mind) - Hux will only sneer and reply that he was ONE exception. And Ben just saying "there will be others..." Stormtrooper uprising confirmed  Razz  Laughing
@Night Huntress

Which also makes me think that overconfidence is a theme in TLJ - that may lead you to failing and the good guys learn it, the bad guys don't. And perhaps it could be also fitting to tie Hux with it in his ark and let him die from the hand of his own stormtroopers, lol. He is the - but this ship can't sink guy!

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 6:25 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:The time has come to choose a side. You must choose: Team Renperor or Team Benperor?

Renperor: Kylo Ren will be a #Terrible Renperor who is hated by everyone the galaxy over. Hux and Poe will both be batting to bring him down. It won't last 5 minutes before Reylo becomes an Us Against the Galaxy situation.
Benperor: Kylo Ren will mature and become a #Benevolent Renperor for a time, still despised by Hux and the Resistance equally, but with the rest of the galaxy's backing, now he has more to lose by choosing to give up all he ever thought he wanted to be with the woman he loves.
@MeadowofAshes

I'll choose team Benperor. Not sure how realistic it is.. but it would make a much more interesting story in my opinion.

I read a FF yesterday with kind of that scenario. And it was so well written that I can actually see that happening. A conversation between Ben and Hux is still fresh in my memory."General Hux what causes rebellions?" Hux answers with: "Ignorance, Savagery and Lies spread by enemies." Ben contradicts him: "No, Rebellions are born from fear and suffering. They rise out of starvation not having the tools and income you need to put a roof over your head and that of your family. We will not force their loyalty thru fear, history has shown such methods only work for a short time and soon you have to fight an uprising. We'll have to make them trust us to keep them fed and save..."

It would be a great opportunity to show Ben really wants to start something new- make things better and not just being power-hungry.
He IS Leia's son and the grandson of Padmé - he should have inherited some of those political skills and not just the Skywalker/Solo temper.
It would also show his offer to Rey in a totally different light.
@Night Huntress

This. #BENPEROR

@MeadowofAshes Thanks for giving it a title.

This is what I have been trying to say all this time about Benevolent Supreme Leader Ben. But no one seemed to get it up until this.

The FO is "evil" because Hux and Snoke employed methods that made it evil. If Ben changed the FO's ways and actually catered to the sympathies and needs of the galaxy then it would change the impression towards FO.

Ben would probably get rid of the Stormtrooper program. Or change it. Instead of kidnapping children, they'll simply rely on standard recruitment. Hux kidnaps children because it's easier to brainwash them. But recruitment gives civilians a choice if they want to join or not.

But my top wish for Benperor is to get rid of slavery. Because Anakin was a slave.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 6:38 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
But my top wish for Benperor is to get rid of slavery. Because Anakin was a slave.
@Rei of Sunshine

Yeah, and after becoming Vader he did nothing - he even helped enslaving others Evil or Very Mad ... hope Ben will be different. Snif

Imagine him going to Canto Bight and freeing/helping those abused children- even discovering little force-sensitive broom-boy and telling him about the force? Wishful thinking on my part, but it would be so epic! Cry
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 8:52 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
But my top wish for Benperor is to get rid of slavery. Because Anakin was a slave.
@Rei of Sunshine

Yeah, and after becoming Vader he did nothing - he even helped enslaving others Evil or Very Mad ... hope Ben will be different. Snif

Imagine him going to Canto Bight and freeing/helping those abused children- even discovering little force-sensitive broom-boy and telling him about the force? Wishful thinking on my part, but it would be so epic! Cry
@Night Huntress

Headcanon
Imagine Poe sending a team to a backwater planet suspected to be an FO child recruitment camp. Team includes Rey, Finn and Rose. They're supposed to infiltrate and figure out what's going on and if possible rescue people. But what they thought would be an enslavement camp turns out to be a feeding charity program. Finn is flabbergasted to see Stormtroopers handing out donation packages to poor families. Stormtroopers allowed to walk around without helmets, and smiling at kids. Medical droids check up on locals. Stormtroopers install water facilities. Stormtroopers giving out hot meals (Rey partakes) and other forms of assistance all the while smiling and praising the Supreme Leader as they go.

Then Finn overhears a bunch of kids enthusiastically talking to an unmasked Stormie saying "I wanna be a Stormtrooper too and help people!" But the Stormie shakes his head kindly and says "Sorry kids, but you're too young. Maybe when you're a little older the Supreme Leader will let you join." To which Finn balks because he was taken as a kid.

Finn realizes Stormies don't kidnap children anymore.
Rose sees that her kind of people are being taken care of by the FO and is in a bit of shock.
And Rey has never seen free food being given out generously in her whole life.

They all report this to Poe who typically thinks it's a front and a propaganda to get people to ally with the FO. Which is a good way to get audiences asking if the FO really is genuine.

But then you get Rey connecting with Ben and confirming things with him.

-----

Honestly, it's not a stretch to hope Ben does become Benperor. It's a given that he should have already learned a huge lesson by the end of TLJ and will actually try to change his ways. I don't think he'll want to hunt down the Resistance any more. I think he's gonna try and move on and actually do his job. It's Hux who seems like someone who couldn't get over and still obsess about chasing down the few rebels who got away. Because between the 2 of them, it's Hux who can't stand the thought that there are people out there who dare defy him and will want to dominate and defeat them.

Hux is the kind of person who wants to snuff out rebellions by killing all rebels.
Ben seems the type who doesn't want people to have a reason to rebel in the first place.

Btw. Which fanfic is this you're talking about? I wanna read it!
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 10:22 am

@Rei of Sunshine

I don't want to built up too much of a headcanon, because I don't want to be disappointed if they won't go that way.
But this could truly work... after TLJ most of the GA and even many fans can't see him redeemed - at least not without dying.

It was the same after TFA- but when he killed Snoke and fought with Rey against the PG in TLJ the audience cheered and forgot all about his horrible act of killing his own father.
Snoke is dead, so what could they probably do to make him sympathetic again? Certainly not by keeping him in this state of mind- angry and vengeful.

Fact is: everything from his past is gone...literally. His father by his own hand. Luke - not by his hand but sacrificed to stall him..., Leia will most likely die offscreen or at the beginning of IX. So who is left for him to blame or be angry at? Rey? The handful of people left of the resistance ?  Nope

With his decision to takeover the FO he lost Rey... now he has truly nothing left- so what will he do with all that power? It would be a great opportunity to show what he is capable of. That he isn't just a stupid impulsive stuck-up idiot most of the people around him assume.

And it would be a total surprise for the GA - that's so not what they would expect...

P.S: I'll send you a PM regarding the FF
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 11:06 am

A great article about Ben and the parallel to his gradnfather:

http://www.nerdophiles.com/2017/12/29/kylo-ren-vs-anakin-skywalker/?utm_content=buffer848bf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

At the end of The Last Jedi, we see Kylo Ren kneeling to Rey, a sadness in his eyes. Does this look like a fearsome Sith Lord? Of course not. Kylo Ren can barely fill the shoes of Snoke, let alone someone as powerful as his grandfather. And while Rey did close the door on him, something this writer wishes Padme had done, I’m not fully convinced she’s given up on him coming back to the light. As a “clone” of his grandfather, Kylo Ren may yet have a redemption arc of truly coming back to the light.

If Episode IX brings the change in Ben Solo that Rey saw in their touch, or perhaps the hope that Leia and Luke had held for him, it could prove to be the other path Anakin failed to take while on his way to becoming Darth Vader.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 11:22 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:A great article about Ben and the parallel to his gradnfather:

http://www.nerdophiles.com/2017/12/29/kylo-ren-vs-anakin-skywalker/?utm_content=buffer848bf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

At the end of The Last Jedi, we see Kylo Ren kneeling to Rey, a sadness in his eyes. Does this look like a fearsome Sith Lord? Of course not. Kylo Ren can barely fill the shoes of Snoke, let alone someone as powerful as his grandfather. And while Rey did close the door on him, something this writer wishes Padme had done, I’m not fully convinced she’s given up on him coming back to the light. As a “clone” of his grandfather, Kylo Ren may yet have a redemption arc of truly coming back to the light.

If Episode IX brings the change in Ben Solo that Rey saw in their touch, or perhaps the hope that Leia and Luke had held for him, it could prove to be the other path Anakin failed to take while on his way to becoming Darth Vader.
@Darth_Awakened

Thank god this article exists! I thought no one would ever write about that scene ever! It's one of the most poignant scenes in TLJ!

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren; the Jedi Killer, weepy and kneeling at the mercy of the Last Jedi, Rey.

If they don't end up together this whole dramatic potential to become the fictional lovestory of the decade is wasted.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 11:45 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:A great article about Ben and the parallel to his gradnfather:

http://www.nerdophiles.com/2017/12/29/kylo-ren-vs-anakin-skywalker/?utm_content=buffer848bf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

At the end of The Last Jedi, we see Kylo Ren kneeling to Rey, a sadness in his eyes. Does this look like a fearsome Sith Lord? Of course not. Kylo Ren can barely fill the shoes of Snoke, let alone someone as powerful as his grandfather. And while Rey did close the door on him, something this writer wishes Padme had done, I’m not fully convinced she’s given up on him coming back to the light. As a “clone” of his grandfather, Kylo Ren may yet have a redemption arc of truly coming back to the light.

If Episode IX brings the change in Ben Solo that Rey saw in their touch, or perhaps the hope that Leia and Luke had held for him, it could prove to be the other path Anakin failed to take while on his way to becoming Darth Vader.
@Darth_Awakened

Thank god this article exists! I thought no one would ever write about that scene ever! It's one of the most poignant scenes in TLJ!

Supreme Leader Kylo Ren; the Jedi Killer, weepy and kneeling at the mercy of the Last Jedi, Rey.

If they don't end up together this whole dramatic potential to become the fictional lovestory of the decade is wasted.
@Rei of Sunshine

The importance of that scene is above everything I agree.

It's literally a set up for IX.

Not only with Kylo and Rey. Hux expression is also poignant. And Rey sitting alone at that bench is also telling.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 11:50 am

I was just investigating whether there were really good monarchs in history. I mean we all know the bad ones...but the good ones aren't often mentioned

One example was  Cyrus the Great

The victory over Babylonia expressed all the facets of the policy of conciliation which Cyrus had followed until then. He presented himself not as a conqueror, but a liberator and the legitimate successor to the crown. He also declared the first Charter of Human Rights known to mankind. He took the title of "King of Babylon and King of the Land". Cyrus had no thought of forcing conquered people into a single mould, and had the wisdom to leave unchanged the institution of each kingdom he attached to the Persian Crown. In 539 BCE he allowed more than 40,000 Jews to leave Babylon and return to Palestine. This step was in line with his policy to bring peace to Mankind. A new wind was blowing from the east, carrying away the cries and humility of defeated and murdered victims, extinguishing the fires of sacked cities, and liberating nations from slavery.

Cyrus was upright, a great leader of men, generous and benelovent. The Hellenes, whom he conquered regarded him as 'Law-giver' and the Jews as 'the annointed of the Lord'.

By pursuing a policy of generosity, instead of repression, Cyrus demonstrated his Greatness. So successful were his policies of conquest, mercifulness and assimilation that the empire continued to thrive for some 200 years after his death. Cyrus' compassionate principles continue to resonate today: his religious and cultural tolerance and commitment to the liberation of enslaved peoples remain an aspiration in our troubled modern world.


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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 12:23 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:I was just investigating whether there were really good monarchs in history. I mean we all know the bad ones...but the good ones aren't often mentioned

One example was  Cyrus the Great

The victory over Babylonia expressed all the facets of the policy of conciliation which Cyrus had followed until then. He presented himself not as a conqueror, but a liberator and the legitimate successor to the crown. He also declared the first Charter of Human Rights known to mankind. He took the title of "King of Babylon and King of the Land". Cyrus had no thought of forcing conquered people into a single mould, and had the wisdom to leave unchanged the institution of each kingdom he attached to the Persian Crown. In 539 BCE he allowed more than 40,000 Jews to leave Babylon and return to Palestine. This step was in line with his policy to bring peace to Mankind. A new wind was blowing from the east, carrying away the cries and humility of defeated and murdered victims, extinguishing the fires of sacked cities, and liberating nations from slavery.

Cyrus was upright, a great leader of men, generous and benelovent. The Hellenes, whom he conquered regarded him as 'Law-giver' and the Jews as 'the annointed of the Lord'.

By pursuing a policy of generosity, instead of repression, Cyrus demonstrated his Greatness. So successful were his policies of conquest, mercifulness and assimilation that the empire continued to thrive for some 200 years after his death. Cyrus' compassionate principles continue to resonate today: his religious and cultural tolerance and commitment to the liberation of enslaved peoples remain an aspiration in our troubled modern world.


@Night Huntress

Thank you! Wonderful article. I remember in a documentary about Star Wars (OT and PT), I forgot the title and the year released, but it included most if not all TPTB pre'Disney. There were also some other people like academicians and analysts, who were in the field or had backgrounds in literature, film, anthropology, sociology, psychology, and ancient world studies. They dissected and compared the characters and themes to loads of different stuff. Especially Anakin and his descent to Vader. He was the promised child who fell. I think they compared him to the bad emperors of Rome such as Caligula and Nero. Not really sure.

But if Anakin is comparable to such characters, and Ben is supposedly reverse Anakin, then I hope he gets to be modeled after these great Benevolent rulers/emperors.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 12:47 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I was just investigating whether there were really good monarchs in history. I mean we all know the bad ones...but the good ones aren't often mentioned

One example was  Cyrus the Great

The victory over Babylonia expressed all the facets of the policy of conciliation which Cyrus had followed until then. He presented himself not as a conqueror, but a liberator and the legitimate successor to the crown. He also declared the first Charter of Human Rights known to mankind. He took the title of "King of Babylon and King of the Land". Cyrus had no thought of forcing conquered people into a single mould, and had the wisdom to leave unchanged the institution of each kingdom he attached to the Persian Crown. In 539 BCE he allowed more than 40,000 Jews to leave Babylon and return to Palestine. This step was in line with his policy to bring peace to Mankind. A new wind was blowing from the east, carrying away the cries and humility of defeated and murdered victims, extinguishing the fires of sacked cities, and liberating nations from slavery.

Cyrus was upright, a great leader of men, generous and benelovent. The Hellenes, whom he conquered regarded him as 'Law-giver' and the Jews as 'the annointed of the Lord'.

By pursuing a policy of generosity, instead of repression, Cyrus demonstrated his Greatness. So successful were his policies of conquest, mercifulness and assimilation that the empire continued to thrive for some 200 years after his death. Cyrus' compassionate principles continue to resonate today: his religious and cultural tolerance and commitment to the liberation of enslaved peoples remain an aspiration in our troubled modern world.


@Night Huntress

Thank you! Wonderful article. I remember in a documentary about Star Wars (OT and PT), I forgot the title and the year released, but it included most if not all TPTB pre'Disney. There were also some other people like academicians and analysts, who were in the field or had backgrounds in literature, film, anthropology, sociology, psychology, and ancient world studies. They dissected and compared the characters and themes to loads of different stuff. Especially Anakin and his descent to Vader. He was the promised child who fell. I think they compared him to the bad emperors of Rome such as Caligula and Nero. Not really sure.

But if Anakin is comparable to such characters, and Ben is supposedly reverse Anakin, then I hope he gets to be modeled after these great Benevolent rulers/emperors.
@Rei of Sunshine

Well, I always saw the parallels between SW and our real life History... interesting is that in case of Cyrus he wasn't only respected by his own people but also by the people he conquered- which is really rare.

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 2:05 pm

I'm so torn! I can see good arguments for either a Renporer or a Benporer scenario.

Renporer
  • Can go with a very short time jump
  • Aligns well with what was set up at the end of TLJ (e.g. Kylo in over his head; Hux likely plotting a coup)
  • Can still work with a redemption arc if there's another opportunity for Kylo to seize power later in IX (post-coup) but he rejects it this time (e.g. "learning from his mistakes") because he'd rather be with Rey.


Benporer

  • More interesting character development possibilities
  • Could work with a larger time jump (not too large though--Hux is still going to be plotting)
  • Aligns potentially well with what Kylo said in the throne room about building a New Order
  • Aligns potentially well if he is having a moment of self-reflection/learning from his mistakes in that final/kneeling shot
  • Works easily for him finding out that power/ruling the galaxy isn't all that it's cracked up to be -- could possibly give him sympathy for Mom, her political career, and wanting to enact change.
  • Easy way for him to ultimately reject that power (maybe even subvert the whole First Order--returning power to the people of the GFFA) to be with Rey.

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by rey09 on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 2:12 pm

I can't see this Renperor thing getting that deep. At the end of the day, he leads the FO. He has lost lost everything, will be nihilistic about everything and will be on cruise control when it comes to taking down the resistance/new rebellion. It will be a repeat of ROTJ politically with an evolved reylo dynamic.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Darth_Awakened on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 2:15 pm

I'am team Benperor all the way.
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