The Renperor thread

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 1:57 pm

@Atenais wrote:It's really hard to choose between Renperor and Benperor, mainly because I believe the time gap will be highly important for his developing. Right now, we don't really have a Resistance to fight the FO.

In the end of TLJ Kylo looked really dejected, but I can't forget he suffered years of manipulation from Snoke, I can't see him turning into a good guy that quick. And, even if I believe in his redemption arc, I can't see them making a boring movie about a guy quietly redeeming himself. We have to have battles, lightsaber duels, conflict, etc.

I'm with @FrolickingFizzgig @ZioRen @MindAndMagic, from what I saw till now, I can't see a Benperor happening (maybe I'm wrong). And I keep thinking what would be interesting enough for GA in the last movie. Now that we don't have Snoke, they will have to come up with some big threat in the next movie. Unfortunately, I can't see Kylo as a big threat anymore. Maybe Hux...? (They didn't plant the almost shot scene and the side look scene for nothing). But I still don't know.
@Atenais

You know that is an interesting point about Hux. Hux grew up in the Unknown Regions. He was on one of the last ships out of Jakku. He may have resources that we don't know about. Kylo may have to fight an intra-FO battle with him to keep those resources at bay and the Resistance could have no clue that he is trying to keep the galaxy from getting any worse. In fact, some of these activities he does to fight whatever UR resources could look really bad ... until Rey and he connect ... and then all he'll breaks loose because (1)The Resistance will be mad about the connection and (2) nobody will believe Rey about Kylo's intentions.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 3:01 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@Atenais wrote:It's really hard to choose between Renperor and Benperor, mainly because I believe the time gap will be highly important for his developing. Right now, we don't really have a Resistance to fight the FO.

In the end of TLJ Kylo looked really dejected, but I can't forget he suffered years of manipulation from Snoke, I can't see him turning into a good guy that quick. And, even if I believe in his redemption arc, I can't see them making a boring movie about a guy quietly redeeming himself. We have to have battles, lightsaber duels, conflict, etc.

I'm with @FrolickingFizzgig @ZioRen @MindAndMagic, from what I saw till now, I can't see a Benperor happening (maybe I'm wrong). And I keep thinking what would be interesting enough for GA in the last movie. Now that we don't have Snoke, they will have to come up with some big threat in the next movie. Unfortunately, I can't see Kylo as a big threat anymore. Maybe Hux...? (They didn't plant the almost shot scene and the side look scene for nothing). But I still don't know.
@Atenais

You know that is an interesting point about Hux. Hux grew up in the Unknown Regions. He was on one of the last ships out of Jakku. He may have resources that we don't know about. Kylo may have to fight an intra-FO battle with him to keep those resources at bay and the Resistance could have no clue that he is trying to keep the galaxy from getting any worse. In fact, some of these activities he does to fight whatever UR resources could look really bad ... until Rey and he connect ... and then all he'll breaks loose because (1)The Resistance will be mad about the connection and (2) nobody will believe Rey about Kylo's intentions.
@SoloSideCousin

Clearly, the FO got their funding from somewhere... And if Bloodline is to be believed, it wasn't all from Snoke.

I do think Benporer vs. Renporer probably comes down to what sort of time jump JJ decides to go with. He's going to be a bit of a Hot Mess again for a bit (how long? I'm not sure), so I think we're looking at Hot Mess Renporer with a short time jump. But, after getting most of the audience on Ben's side, JJ can't have him go too evil in IX...so he's not going to be destroying planets, killing civilians, kidnapping children, etc, if his reign lasts for any significant portion of time...so you pretty much have to go with a Benporer situation then. And Hux would probably still want Ben dead, even if they go with Benporer.

The key thing is that JJ can't undo all of the good redemption work that Rian did...unless they decide to not redeem Kylo.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by lauvamp on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 3:50 pm

Every time I think about the possibility of Kylo not being redeemed... Sad

I can't see the point of creating a villain / "1 half of our protagonist" with Princely look + accused of having feelings / compassion + conflicted + 2 relatives sacrificed for nothing.  

I don't see the fairy tale here... Evil or Very Mad

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by PalmettoBlue on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 5:04 pm

I was listening to my last podcast which we recorded before TLJ premiered in preparation for our reactions podcast and something I said made me think about Ben as the Supreme Leader.
Do you remember in Bloodline that Leia was offered the regency of a colony of Alderaan? And when she turned it down, they asked if Ben would be interested and she responded with - No, that's not really his thing.
I think she's telling the truth. I don't think Ben had any interest in taking over the First Order and becoming Renperor. I think he killed Snoke because he was 100% done with Snoke's BS and there was no way in the name of the galaxy that he would kill Rey. I don't think ruling has much appeal for him. I'm sure order does because he's seen the barely organized nature of the New Republic (which I think we can all agree was a bit of a wreck.) But to lead it? No, I don't think that's his thing.
But once he's killed Snoke, and Rey is there...now it's a tempting thing, but even then, if I'm remembering correctly, he's saying to let it all go - the First Order, the Resistance, all of it. Let it all die, right?
Then, the lightsaber, the explosion, and when he wakes up...he's left with an impossible choice - take the reins of power or leave them to Hux. And he hates that guy.
So...I think he'll be a reluctant ruler at best. As to what kind of ruler he will be? I really don't have a clue. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've got nothing.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 5:58 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:I was listening to my last podcast which we recorded before TLJ premiered in preparation for our reactions podcast and something I said made me think about Ben as the Supreme Leader.
Do you remember in Bloodline that Leia was offered the regency of a colony of Alderaan? And when she turned it down, they asked if Ben would be interested and she responded with - No, that's not really his thing.
I think she's telling the truth. I don't think Ben had any interest in taking over the First Order and becoming Renperor. I think he killed Snoke because he was 100% done with Snoke's BS and there was no way in the name of the galaxy that he would kill Rey. I don't think ruling has much appeal for him. I'm sure order does because he's seen the barely organized nature of the New Republic (which I think we can all agree was a bit of a wreck.) But to lead it? No, I don't think that's his thing.
But once he's killed Snoke, and Rey is there...now it's a tempting thing, but even then, if I'm remembering correctly, he's saying to let it all go - the First Order, the Resistance, all of it. Let it all die, right?
Then, the lightsaber, the explosion, and when he wakes up...he's left with an impossible choice - take the reins of power or leave them to Hux. And he hates that guy.
So...I think he'll be a reluctant ruler at best. As to what kind of ruler he will be? I really don't have a clue. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've got nothing.
@PalmettoBlue

I know exactly which line you're talking about (it had to do with a vacated governorship of Birren). On initial read, it sounded like Ben wouldn't be interested in the position, but here's the actual quote:

"You must succeed Lord Mellowyn, just as your son must someday succeed you." For a moment Princess Leia looked weary, as if she had aged between one sentence and the next. "I can’t see Ben taking much interest in the governorship, either. Really, it would be better for everyone concerned if I were to remove myself from the succession."

So, I think it's a little more ambiguous than we initially thought. Would Ben really not be interested in the governorship, or was Leia lying because she had reservations about her son as a governor?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by PalmettoBlue on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 6:09 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:I was listening to my last podcast which we recorded before TLJ premiered in preparation for our reactions podcast and something I said made me think about Ben as the Supreme Leader.
Do you remember in Bloodline that Leia was offered the regency of a colony of Alderaan? And when she turned it down, they asked if Ben would be interested and she responded with - No, that's not really his thing.
I think she's telling the truth. I don't think Ben had any interest in taking over the First Order and becoming Renperor. I think he killed Snoke because he was 100% done with Snoke's BS and there was no way in the name of the galaxy that he would kill Rey. I don't think ruling has much appeal for him. I'm sure order does because he's seen the barely organized nature of the New Republic (which I think we can all agree was a bit of a wreck.) But to lead it? No, I don't think that's his thing.
But once he's killed Snoke, and Rey is there...now it's a tempting thing, but even then, if I'm remembering correctly, he's saying to let it all go - the First Order, the Resistance, all of it. Let it all die, right?
Then, the lightsaber, the explosion, and when he wakes up...he's left with an impossible choice - take the reins of power or leave them to Hux. And he hates that guy.
So...I think he'll be a reluctant ruler at best. As to what kind of ruler he will be? I really don't have a clue. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've got nothing.
@PalmettoBlue

I know exactly which line you're talking about (it had to do with a vacated governorship of Birren). On initial read, it sounded like Ben wouldn't be interested in the position, but here's the actual quote:

"You must succeed Lord Mellowyn, just as your son must someday succeed you." For a moment Princess Leia looked weary, as if she had aged between one sentence and the next. "I can’t see Ben taking much interest in the governorship, either. Really, it would be better for everyone concerned if I were to remove myself from the succession."

So, I think it's a little more ambiguous than we initially thought. Would Ben really not be interested in the governorship, or was Leia lying because she had reservations about her son as a governor?
@ISeeAnIsland

Thanks for the quote!
I'm inclined to read it as she's being truthful - that Ben wouldn't be interested. With her aging from one sentence to the next, I interpret that to mean that she's feeling the weight of even more responsibility on her shoulders - it's not enough that she's given her life (and her family) to the New Republic, but now she's expected to give the rest of her life for another position, and not only that, her son would be expected to follow in her footsteps.
Is it strange that I see them both as royalty anyway?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 1:31 am

No one's saying that by #Benperor Ben becomes the Mayor of Townsville overnight without believable character development.

By benevolent we don't mean he'll be throwing flowers and candies to the slaves of Tatooine or free all the fathiers and rathtars from zoos.

Benperor speculates that Ben actually realizes that he has been a little sh*t and is tired of being a little sh*t. Now without Snoke to tell him what to do, he can actually do whatever he wants. And he wanted to create a new world order with Rey. Rey being the equally daft little sh*t that she is, left him. But that doesn't mean Ben won't want to try and make a new world order.

Ben going after the Resistance after getting played by Luke like that only means he hasn't learned his lesson at all. And Ben going after Rey will only make audiences dislike him for being a clingy, undeserving ex-boyfriend.

So please. No stalking, and no kidnapping. All that reminds me of Chris Pratt in Passengers.

Ben will be so hurt by what Rey did that he will most likely try to ignore her. He'll be broody and sullen and I can see him taking that out on Hux by not allowing Hux to have what he wants.

After TLJ the FO suffered a HUGE loss btw unless you guys forgot. They basically lost SKB a week ago, then they lost their mothership and basically a fleed of Star Destroyers thanks to Holdo.

That's a lot of resources down the drain.

I see the FO also staying planetside trying to recuperate. Hux will appeal for the creation of a new army and fleet, but Kylo won't allow him because he wants to concentrate resources planetside. And here our Benperor has the chance to explore what else he could do with his position of power.

He knows what it's like to live in fear and always be dominated and never have a thought to himself. He also knows what it's like to live with your parents constantly pulled away by responsibility like business and war.If Ben wants to create a new world, it'll be something that reflects what he didn't have and always wanted as a child.

But since he is alone in this, he will face hurdles and still fail.

Hux will get in the way

The Rebellion will get in the way

And his feelings for Rey will get in the way.

It is likely that at first Ben will try to ignore the ongoing fight with what's left of the Resistance and continue with his world building. But later on he'll realize that what he wants can never really happen while there is still this 'imbalance' in the galaxy.  

What #Benperor means to me is Ben is actually trying to do his best to change and develop and work hard for a redemption that he deserves.

Rey will not be the sole reason for his redemption but she will be there to influence and help. Ben will have to realize for himself that he deserves this and give himself a reason.

Act 1 in Ep 9 we'll see Ben do whatever he wants. Trying to do what he thinks is right. in Act 2 he'll fail but not for lack of trying. His reunion with Rey will change things. Act 3 will see him successful and deserving of his redemption.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 1:56 am

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:No one's saying that by #Benperor Ben becomes the Mayor of Townsville overnight without believable character development.

By benevolent we don't mean he'll be throwing flowers and candies to the slaves of Tatooine or free all the fathiers and rathtars from zoos.

Yes, exactly! It's not about him actually succeeding in making the galaxy a better place- it's about his intent try doing what's right. Still failing because the FO isn't the right organization to achieve that- but that's possible something he still needs to realize himself.

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:

So please. No stalking, and no kidnapping. All that reminds me of Chris Pratt in Passengers.


Yes, please! None of that! We only have one movie left- if he is to be redeemed and live though it, he have to start changing already and gain sympathy. If he didn't learn anything from his mistakes, if he is still that selfish raging idiot... who want's him redeemed and living a happily ever after with Rey? Well, not me. I'm all for a fluffy cheesy happy ending- but not if it's not deserved!

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:
 
What #Benperor means to me is Ben is actually trying to do his best to change and develop and work hard for a redemption that he deserves.

Rey will not be the sole reason for his redemption but she will be there to influence and help. Ben will have to realize for himself that he deserves this and give himself a reason.

Act 1 in Ep 9 we'll see Ben do whatever he wants. Trying to do what he thinks is right. in Act 2 he'll fail but not for lack of trying. His reunion with Rey will change things. Act 3 will see him successful and deserving of his redemption.
@Rei of Sunshine

That's my take on "Benperor" as well. He still will make mistakes and bad decisions (and most likely cause a disaster)- but his motivation will be different then in the last two movies.
He need to show that he could be selfless - and do good not only for the ones he cares about like Rey, but for the greater good. And for Rey it should be the opposite- she should choose to do something only for Kylo/Ben over the great good. You know what I mean?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 3:15 am

It's hard to decide but I’m rather team Renperor. I believe Kylo will have good intentions and try to make the Galaxy a better place but he still will be using the wrong methods. His first decision will probably be to return to the idea of the clone army and ordering Hux to dismantle his child brainwashing program.
I also think Kylo will be more focused on the political side of things instead of chasing after the remains of the Resistance (it would be a good opportunity to finally introduce the Knights of Ren as Kylo’s henchman and sending them after the resistance Twisted Evil )
In the end, he will realise the FO is rotten and that he was wrong about his ways and he will start to make good decisions (for example by saving someone Rey cares about (Finn)) Very Happy
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 3:56 am

I just saw TLJ again on Imax tonight, and I noticed another thing about Hux.

When Kylo loses his mind when he sees the Falcon and says, "Blow that piece of junk out of the sky!" ... Kylo *does not* tell all of the TIE fighters to follow it. Hux does ... and Hux has no reason to order all of them to go ... unless he is hoping to "help" Ren along in failing his Battle of Crait performance.

Also, my husband made a funny comment about Renperor. I was telling him how everybody and their brother thinks that Kylo/Ben is unredeemable now, and he asked, "But why?????? What makes him so irredeemable?"

So I said, "Well for starters, a lot of people kind of equate his becoming Supreme Leader as like an unrecoverable act."

Then he said, "What else was he supposed to do? Give his two weeks notice to Hux and request his vacation pay? Very Happy ... If he let Hux become Supreme Leader, then Hux would immediately have Kylo killed and would then be in charge himself. Or Kylo could run away and have a bounty on his head ... and still Hux is in charge ... Kylo taking over is the best choice available."

Then I said, "Well people are saying that he should have gone to the Resistance."

Husband: "He can't go to the Resistance. He thinks his mother is dead. He would probably think that they would just kill him. Also going to the Resistance is basically the same as teaming up with Luke in his mind, and he can't team up with Luke because of what Luke did."

You might disagree with Husband's reasoning, but the "What is he supposed to do? Give Hux his two weeks notice?" made me laugh quite a bit. Very Happy We started going over versions of the "Dear Hux" resignation letter that Kylo would hand in. Very Happy
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 4:05 am

@SoloSideCousin

You know what I think: I think that a part of the reason we still don't get completely Ben's reasoning is that they left out from TLJ the specifics on Leia and Ben's relationship. I'am guessing here but I think the initial plan was to leave it for IX. But with Carrie's passing it's impossible know. We'll see how they're going to deal it.

Somehow I have an impression that the root of Ben's trubles came from the relationship with his mother.

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 4:44 am

@SoloSideCousin: your husband is a very wise man- and funny! Thumbs up
By the way- I want to read your "Dear Hux" resignation letter ideas Lolilol

@Darth_Awakened: I wondered about that myself. I mentioned several times how angry I am at Leia's character. She seemingly doesn't really care about her son or does a bad job showing it. That's my main critic about TLJ- along with the few information on Ben's past and why he turned.
In Bloodline she hasn't heard anything from Luke & her son for force knows how long and she isn't too concerned- and what did she do when she finally knows he has fallen to the dark side? I hope they answer some of this questions even if Leia dies early or offscreen.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 12:41 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:No one's saying that by #Benperor Ben becomes the Mayor of Townsville overnight without believable character development.

By benevolent we don't mean he'll be throwing flowers and candies to the slaves of Tatooine or free all the fathiers and rathtars from zoos.

Benperor speculates that Ben actually realizes that he has been a little sh*t and is tired of being a little sh*t. Now without Snoke to tell him what to do, he can actually do whatever he wants. And he wanted to create a new world order with Rey. Rey being the equally daft little sh*t that she is, left him. But that doesn't mean Ben won't want to try and make a new world order.

Ben going after the Resistance after getting played by Luke like that only means he hasn't learned his lesson at all. And Ben going after Rey will only make audiences dislike him for being a clingy, undeserving ex-boyfriend.

So please. No stalking, and no kidnapping. All that reminds me of Chris Pratt in Passengers.

Ben will be so hurt by what Rey did that he will most likely try to ignore her. He'll be broody and sullen and I can see him taking that out on Hux by not allowing Hux to have what he wants.

After TLJ the FO suffered a HUGE loss btw unless you guys forgot. They basically lost SKB a week ago, then they lost their mothership and basically a fleed of Star Destroyers thanks to Holdo.

That's a lot of resources down the drain.

I see the FO also staying planetside trying to recuperate. Hux will appeal for the creation of a new army and fleet, but Kylo won't allow him because he wants to concentrate resources planetside. And here our Benperor has the chance to explore what else he could do with his position of power.

He knows what it's like to live in fear and always be dominated and never have a thought to himself. He also knows what it's like to live with your parents constantly pulled away by responsibility like business and war.If Ben wants to create a new world, it'll be something that reflects what he didn't have and always wanted as a child.

But since he is alone in this, he will face hurdles and still fail.

Hux will get in the way

The Rebellion will get in the way

And his feelings for Rey will get in the way.

It is likely that at first Ben will try to ignore the ongoing fight with what's left of the Resistance and continue with his world building. But later on he'll realize that what he wants can never really happen while there is still this 'imbalance' in the galaxy.  

What #Benperor means to me is Ben is actually trying to do his best to change and develop and work hard for a redemption that he deserves.

Rey will not be the sole reason for his redemption but she will be there to influence and help. Ben will have to realize for himself that he deserves this and give himself a reason.

Act 1 in Ep 9 we'll see Ben do whatever he wants. Trying to do what he thinks is right. in Act 2 he'll fail but not for lack of trying. His reunion with Rey will change things. Act 3 will see him successful and deserving of his redemption.
@Rei of Sunshine

YES!!! cheers cheers cheers

I think that an arc like this would work out very nicely. The key is that Ben is trying to do the right thing, and that right thing seems reasonable to most of the audience. He can't suddenly turn into Snoke or Palpatine (not that he was ever either of those two) just because he's now B/Renporer.

In other places, too many people forget that Ben is going to have clarity for probably the first time in his life (i.e. no Snoke in his head) and will also be dealing with the enormous losses suffered by the FO (i.e. SKB, the Supremacy, and a number of star destroyers).
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 12:45 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:I just saw TLJ again on Imax tonight, and I noticed another thing about Hux.

When Kylo loses his mind when he sees the Falcon and says, "Blow that piece of junk out of the sky!" ... Kylo *does not* tell all of the TIE fighters to follow it. Hux does ... and Hux has no reason to order all of them to go ... unless he is hoping to "help" Ren along in failing his Battle of Crait performance.

Also, my husband made a funny comment about Renperor. I was telling him how everybody and their brother thinks that Kylo/Ben is unredeemable now, and he asked, "But why?????? What makes him so irredeemable?"

So I said, "Well for starters, a lot of people kind of equate his becoming Supreme Leader as like an unrecoverable act."

Then he said, "What else was he supposed to do? Give his two weeks notice to Hux and request his vacation pay? Very Happy ... If he let Hux become Supreme Leader, then Hux would immediately have Kylo killed and would then be in charge himself. Or Kylo could run away and have a bounty on his head ... and still Hux is in charge ... Kylo taking over is the best choice available."

Then I said, "Well people are saying that he should have gone to the Resistance."

Husband: "He can't go to the Resistance. He thinks his mother is dead. He would probably think that they would just kill him. Also going to the Resistance is basically the same as teaming up with Luke in his mind, and he can't team up with Luke because of what Luke did."

You might disagree with Husband's reasoning, but the "What is he supposed to do? Give Hux his two weeks notice?" made me laugh quite a bit. Very Happy We started going over versions of the "Dear Hux" resignation letter that Kylo would hand in. Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

LOL. Your husband is a wise man.

I wish they hadn't left the "Does Kylo know if Leia survived?" question so ambiguous. Maybe that was meant to be a surprise for IX, but it feels like something they could have dealt with with a short re-shoot after Carrie's death to clarify things once they knew Carrie wouldn't be around for IX. It would have made people probably less cranky about him firing on the Resistance, too, if they knew that he thought his mother was already dead.

And your husband is absolutely right...he had no reason to go to the Resistance. What else was he going to do but seize the opportunity to become Supreme Leader? Especially if he'd been groomed to think that leading was his destiny or whatever?

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by snufkin on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 2:54 pm

@SoloSideCousin Please tell me you two started talking about the type of calligraphy he'd use for his two-week's notice letter to Hux (is the First Order an At Will employer?) and if he'd sign it Kylo Ren or Ben Solo? Which name did he join the First Order under? Do they have a Human Resources department to handle this? The Resistance clearly needs one because if Poe's going to be in charge, he can't keep lip biting and charming his way around his subordinates. What is the First Order's policies on fraternizing with the enemy? Because clearly Kylo has violated that policy big time.

Yeah the general fan/film reviewer reaction is along the lines of "FINALLY! He's going to be the two dimensional, unrepentant villain we get in every other production line blockbuster. I can't wait for Rey and her new boyfriend Poe (unless Finn friendzones Rose) blow him up." The amount of mental justification you see around that little detail where Luke admits to Rey that he's 100% responsible for originally planting those ideas in Ben's mind and creating the monster is pretty amazing. In the meanwhile, I'd love for it to be a scenario where he and Hux's frenemies' relationship is amped up to even more ridiculous levels. Like Ben in charge is not good for the FO on top of their loses, the whole situation is him thinking fast to CYA and also because Rey noped out of his "We can start something new to wipe out both and rule together." Being Supreme Leader is so his backup plan/safety school, it's not even funny. And what's interesting is that while you see how the same impulses in Poe led to most of the Resistance being wiped out, they end the story as a small unified group with a renewed sense of purpose. Versus the FO, who've lost their figurehead (and Snoke versus Leia/Holdo are a lesson in bad versus good management), lost major assets like SKB and 2 dreadnaughts, and now have 2 competing Lieutenants. The FO may have more firepower, but they have less of a central core going forward. My best case scenario, the factionalism ends up taking down that group completely. Or they do follow through with the vague lines (which I won't delude myself into thinking are potential future plot points) in Empire's End from Uncle Lando about the kid who's going to get into trouble, along with Luke's vision about destruction and Rey's vision of Ben's future. That would've been the basics of my Ronin scenario anyways, somebody who operates outside of the system to bring it all down (which he basically did to the Jedi Order Luke had built on a corrupt foundation of family history and religious ideology).

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by lauvamp on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 3:38 pm

Agree, the ambiguous points killed me. Did Renperor know about his mother and Rey being around? I want to think they all didn't feel each other, only when Luke died + the last(?) Reyloconnection.

I think was pretty naive (and sweet) of Rey to believe: his redemption = absolute solution. I don't think she considered the fact that even if she forgave and got to understand the human behind the mask, it doesn't mean her friends (hurt by Kylo btw - Finn, Poe -) and the Resistance will.

So, what's the deal with Reylo Renperor? His father is gone, and also his hated uncle, his mother and his (unexpected) soulmate. Is he going to chase the ones left with same rage level than before? Or are we gonna see a more humanised and loneliness Kylo, menaced by a nazi shadow named Hux?
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Moonjump05 on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 8:19 pm

Renperor is not gonna go well for Kylo...like at all. I expect to see lots of pain in our boy's future. His force gf is mad at him, his mom won't come to his FO recital, his lonely uncle is gonna troll him, his rival is trying to kill him and his FO lackeys lost all respect for him.

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by IoJovi on Thu 04 Jan 2018, 8:24 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:Renperor is not gonna go well for Kylo...like at all.  I expect to see lots of pain in our boy's future.  His force gf is mad at him, his mom won't come to his FO recital, his lonely uncle is gonna troll him, his rival is trying to kill him and his FO lackeys lost all respect for him.

@Moonjump05

Quoting for accuracy.  Renperor has a shelf life of about ten minutes and if it lasts beyond that, our boy is in for a world of pain.  I predict Rey won’t be able to stand it either and as much as she’s angry with him, she will probably end up coming to his rescue mid coup.

I also can’t wait for Force Ghost Uncle Luke to troll the living sith out of him. Especially since he is onto the secret that is Reylo, and saw it with his own eyes.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:52 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:I was listening to my last podcast which we recorded before TLJ premiered in preparation for our reactions podcast and something I said made me think about Ben as the Supreme Leader.
Do you remember in Bloodline that Leia was offered the regency of a colony of Alderaan? And when she turned it down, they asked if Ben would be interested and she responded with - No, that's not really his thing.
I think she's telling the truth. I don't think Ben had any interest in taking over the First Order and becoming Renperor. I think he killed Snoke because he was 100% done with Snoke's BS and there was no way in the name of the galaxy that he would kill Rey. I don't think ruling has much appeal for him. I'm sure order does because he's seen the barely organized nature of the New Republic (which I think we can all agree was a bit of a wreck.) But to lead it? No, I don't think that's his thing.
But once he's killed Snoke, and Rey is there...now it's a tempting thing, but even then, if I'm remembering correctly, he's saying to let it all go - the First Order, the Resistance, all of it. Let it all die, right?
Then, the lightsaber, the explosion, and when he wakes up...he's left with an impossible choice - take the reins of power or leave them to Hux. And he hates that guy.
So...I think he'll be a reluctant ruler at best. As to what kind of ruler he will be? I really don't have a clue. The more I think about it, the more I realize I've got nothing.
@PalmettoBlue

That is exactly how I feel - he chose being Renperor because there was no other choice. Rey was so obsessed with bringing back Ben she never thought about what Ben wanted. What would being with the Resistance offer him? Nothing. They would want him dead. It was either the FO or nothing after she left him.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by lauvamp on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 4:02 pm

@motherofpearl1 @PalmettoBlue

Agree! Smile I must add:

Even if I wanted Kylo to choose Rey instead of power, now I understand more it wouldn't look natural this "character progress". She ran after him very fast, but was he ready to deal with everything? Snoke, his inner conflicts, his confusing feelings (towards Rey), the vision of future with her, TFO, his hate against Luke, etc.

Her intentions were honest but I doubt she considered the consequences beyond "he is our only hope / stop the bullying against the Resistance please".
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:17 pm

They told us about Renperor back in 2016. #NeverForget

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:19 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:They told us about Renperor back in 2016. #NeverForget

@Kylo Rey

LOL. I remember when this tweet came up, and at the time, most of us were like "Nahhhhh... Kylo doesn't want to rule the galaxy. They're just inferring that from Luke/Vader in the OT!"
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by lauvamp on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:34 pm

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:48 pm

@lauvamp: maternity pants! lol! lol! lol!

but- seriously... force he looks magnificent in that picture- and I don't even referring to his naked chest. His face! He looks very young here Shocked
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by snufkin on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 1:56 pm

Not that you can really tell from the layers in the first movie, but he bulked up a lot between TFA and TLJ. Which the chronological timeline for those movies is maybe a couple weeks at most? How did he get so big so fast? Now I'm thinking of the old joke on here that between what happened with Han and Rey, Kylo spends the interim eating his feelings.
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