The Renperor thread

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ZioRen on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:07 pm

I really, REALLY don't want a years long time skip but I get the feeling I ought to make my peace with it now. Mostly because I have some doubts about them portraying Renperor in a particularly nuanced way and I'm doubting they're going to let us point all the fingers at Hux, the "real" bad guy.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:20 pm

@ZioRen wrote:I really, REALLY don't want a years long time skip but I get the feeling I ought to make my peace with it now. Mostly because I have some doubts about them portraying Renperor in a particularly nuanced way and I'm doubting they're going to let us point all the fingers at Hux, the "real" bad guy.
@ZioRen
The thing is nothing Kylo could do would be worse than killing Han. TLJ proved that. I'm sure he's going to be in more of a dictator role in IX, but who cares? They have Hux to make him look more emotionally strung by comparison, they have Leia's death to rip him further apart, they have Luke's Force ghost and his deepening but confusing feelings for Rey to haunt him. JJ has everything he needs and VIII left us with the perfect set-up for Rey and Kylo's drama to be the central narrative in IX.

If JJ is going into IX with the goal of giving Ben Solo any kind of redemption (be that a happy ending or a hero's noble sacrifice that makes the mistakes and efforts of every single Skywalker worthwhile) it won't matter if he's a controlling dictator for 2 hours. Kylo's always going to be more complicated than he appears and it'll all be leading somewhere just as Kylo's relationship with Rey led him to take down Snoke in VIII. We'll have the whole story so it won't matter if Kylo does a few evil things in the name of war. Nobody will care because that won't be the point of his arc at all, and I would empty my account and bet everything I own on Kylo being the big hero at the end of all this, whether all the other characters recognize it or not. He's the last Skywalker in the Skywalker saga.

I'm not one who believes it's too late to introduce another villain, FWIW. Snoke had other apprentices and SW is a serial. I'm unconvinced that Kylo is going to be the actual "big bad" because it would rely on a ceasefire, which is great for a real war but not all that exciting in a space opera.

I'm one who believes we'll get a happy ending with Kylo living for many reasons, partly because I'm hesitant to believe LucasFilm/Disney would do away with the Skywalker name after paying billions of dollars for the franchise. They'll leave the door open.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:31 pm

Not only killing Han was the worst but they invented Astral Luke so Kylo doesn't kill him (and vice versa). if they wanted Super Evil Kylo, they would have him kill all 3 OT characters.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:36 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:I really, REALLY don't want a years long time skip but I get the feeling I ought to make my peace with it now. Mostly because I have some doubts about them portraying Renperor in a particularly nuanced way and I'm doubting they're going to let us point all the fingers at Hux, the "real" bad guy.
@ZioRen
The thing is nothing Kylo could do would be worse than killing Han. TLJ proved that. I'm sure he's going to be in more of a dictator role in IX, but who cares? They have Hux to make him look more emotionally strung by comparison, they have Leia's death to rip him further apart, they have Luke's Force ghost and his deepening but confusing feelings for Rey to haunt him. JJ has everything he needs and VIII left us with the perfect set-up for Rey and Kylo's drama to be the central narrative in IX.

If JJ is going into IX with the goal of giving Ben Solo any kind of redemption (be that a happy ending or a hero's noble sacrifice that makes the mistakes and efforts of every single Skywalker worthwhile) it won't matter if he's a controlling dictator for 2 hours. Kylo's always going to be more complicated than he appears and it'll all be leading somewhere just as Kylo's relationship with Rey led him to take down Snoke in VIII. We'll have the whole story so it won't matter if Kylo does a few evil things in the name of war. Nobody will care because that won't be the point of his arc at all, and I would empty my account and bet everything I own on Kylo being the big hero at the end of all this, whether all the other characters recognize it or not. He's the last Skywalker in the Skywalker saga.

I'm not one who believes it's too late to introduce another villain, FWIW. Snoke had other apprentices and SW is a serial. I'm unconvinced that Kylo is going to be the actual "big bad" because it would rely on a ceasefire, which is great for a real war but not all that exciting in a space opera.

I'm one who believes we'll get a happy ending with Kylo living for many reasons, partly because I'm hesitant to believe LucasFilm/Disney would do away with the Skywalker name after paying billions of dollars for the franchise. They'll leave the door open.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I really, really hope it doesn't end up being the case that the SOLE reason that Rey and Kylo's relationship unfolding in the way that it has is so that he could take out Snoke, do something noble at the last minute of IX and die in the end as a result of that noble act.  That would mean that the ultimate climax/goal of the trilogy ends up being in the middle to the end of the second movie.  Sure, there is a point to the romance then that unfolded in TLJ, but that is so very underwhelming, and beyond disappointing.

Kylo is a young man in the prime of his life.  His arc is that of the prodigal son, and in those stories, the prodigal son comes home.  The prodigal son doesn't have a redemption ala Vader (an old man who had lived his life).
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:37 pm

@vaderito wrote:Not only killing Han was the worst but they invented Astral Luke so Kylo doesn't kill him (and vice versa). if they wanted Super Evil Kylo, they would have him kill all 3 OT characters.
@vaderito
Exactly. It's always going to be a counter-balance. People hated Kylo more coming out of TFA because the last thing they saw was him kill Han and then get his a** kicked by an untrained girl. In TLJ he was rejected and experienced a mega-tantrum, but ultimately was left on the ground staring sadly up at Rey through the Force Bond and holding his father's dice. They aren't going into IX with the intention of making Kylo the baddest villain that ever badded. Rather, he still has the eyes of a frightened boy. His coming-of-age story isn't over yet and they aren't trying to pretend it is.

VII showcased the descent of a villain, VIII tore into that villain's history, highlighted his weaknesses (family and love) while leaving him the last Skywalker and IX will be his redemption and the redemption of his entire family. He's shouldering that burden now. He's the only one who can do it. People these days seem quick to forget that this is still the Skywalker saga, but that's exactly what it is. That's all you need to know going forward.

@IoJovi
I believe Kylo is going to live for many reasons. I trust my instincts when it comes to storytelling.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:40 pm

They didn't forget this is the Skywalker Saga when they used it as a "proof" for Reywalker.  lol! They are now 'forgetting" cause emotional weight of redeeming that family and giving it a satisfying conclusion are on Kylo.

Either way, the family hangs on Kylo so that's the focus. The rest is background noise.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:49 pm

Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what will happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW  with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD


Last edited by Atenais on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:56 pm

@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what you happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

They don't make movies like "oh, so people think that, we'll do the opposite" but they may create a feeling that the story goes in certain direction even though it doesn't.

Fanboys appreciating P&P in space is TLJ's greatest legacy! cheers
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:59 pm

The most difficult aspects of Kylo's "redemption" are intelligently and thoroughly dealt with in TLJ. I'm really confused by the focus on Kylo's position alone when his redemption arc has already begun.

Han's murder? That "split his spirit to the bone" and was part of what caused him to become disenfranchised with Snoke. Tragic backstory/Luke's temple massacre? Luke thought about murdering him and with the weight of his family's betrayal Ben destroyed everything. Rey hating Kylo's guts? Nullified. Rey cares immensely about him and his entire family despite her better judgment. Kylo and Snoke? Well, Kylo's feelings for Rey lead to Snoke's downfall. Luke and Ben? "No one is ever really gone" and the promise of future haunting. Humanization? We see Kylo as a true Skywalker, a character with genuine feelings and weaknesses. He is called "Ben Solo" by those who know him. He is the last Skywalker, and that matters.

Kylo is over the major hurtles. Rian navigated the character through patricide, the protagonist's and audience's hatred of him, his backstory and caused him to emerge more sympathetic than ever despite taking over the FO in a state of emotional distress.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:05 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:I really, REALLY don't want a years long time skip but I get the feeling I ought to make my peace with it now. Mostly because I have some doubts about them portraying Renperor in a particularly nuanced way and I'm doubting they're going to let us point all the fingers at Hux, the "real" bad guy.
@ZioRen
The thing is nothing Kylo could do would be worse than killing Han. TLJ proved that. I'm sure he's going to be in more of a dictator role in IX, but who cares? They have Hux to make him look more emotionally strung by comparison, they have Leia's death to rip him further apart, they have Luke's Force ghost and his deepening but confusing feelings for Rey to haunt him. JJ has everything he needs and VIII left us with the perfect set-up for Rey and Kylo's drama to be the central narrative in IX.

If JJ is going into IX with the goal of giving Ben Solo any kind of redemption (be that a happy ending or a hero's noble sacrifice that makes the mistakes and efforts of every single Skywalker worthwhile) it won't matter if he's a controlling dictator for 2 hours. Kylo's always going to be more complicated than he appears and it'll all be leading somewhere just as Kylo's relationship with Rey led him to take down Snoke in VIII. We'll have the whole story so it won't matter if Kylo does a few evil things in the name of war. Nobody will care because that won't be the point of his arc at all, and I would empty my account and bet everything I own on Kylo being the big hero at the end of all this, whether all the other characters recognize it or not. He's the last Skywalker in the Skywalker saga.

I'm not one who believes it's too late to introduce another villain, FWIW. Snoke had other apprentices and SW is a serial. I'm unconvinced that Kylo is going to be the actual "big bad" because it would rely on a ceasefire, which is great for a real war but not all that exciting in a space opera.

I'm one who believes we'll get a happy ending with Kylo living for many reasons, partly because I'm hesitant to believe LucasFilm/Disney would do away with the Skywalker name after paying billions of dollars for the franchise. They'll leave the door open.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Technically speaking Skywalker are gone already in name but yeah I can see leaving it open-ended for any possibility. M biggest worry is that we won't know for sure where Ben is but we'll know he's fine, somewhere and we might see him again. No real clea-cut happy ending, wedding and that stuff like I and many here want it to be. I suppose, anything with Ben alive is a good ending for ST.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:20 pm

@vaderito wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what you happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

They don't make movies like "oh, so people think that, we'll do the opposite" but they may create a feeling that the story goes in certain direction even though it doesn't.

Fanboys appreciating P&P in space is TLJ's greatest legacy! cheers
@vaderito

I know, but I think it's positive that people look so certain about the third movie. Since this isn't an adapted screenplay, everything can happen, right? (Unless this is really P&P in Space, and if it is, well, we already know the ending, right? XD).
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by PalmettoBlue on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:22 pm

This is going to be a coming from left field thing, but what if the Resistance hooks up the Cardinal and Vi (from the Phasma novel)? That would provide them with major insight into the stormtrooper program and give Finn the arc for leading a potential stormtrooper rebellion.
Hux, in the meantime, is plotting a coup.
This could rock the First Order to the core.
I get the feeling that Kylo doesn't really approve of the stormtrooper program (seems to prefer clones - no parents, no family), and he probably sees the issues with children being taken from their parents.
In that scenario - how would a Renperer react? I don't know. But I'd really like to see Cardinal and Vi in a movie.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:49 pm

@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what will happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW  with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

This is actually a good sign of things to come. I’ve said before that HE’S GOING TO DIE is now the new Reywalker, and well, look how that one turned out... Laughing

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by DarthRen on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:00 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what will happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW  with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

This is actually a good sign of things to come. I’ve said before that HE’S GOING TO DIE is now the new Reywalker, and well, look how that one turned out... Laughing

@IoJovi

Kylo is going to die, Ben will live. So, in a way they got this right, partially. Cool
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:16 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what will happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW  with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

This is actually a good sign of things to come. I’ve said before that HE’S GOING TO DIE is now the new Reywalker, and well, look how that one turned out... Laughing

@IoJovi
I was always pretty sure "Kylo's going to live/die" would be the major debate going into IX. There's no debate to be had about redemption as far as I'm concerned. Unredeemed last Skywalker in the Skywalker saga? Lol, sure, Anne Jan.

People can go on about how everything in VIII comes out of left field but the whole film (including its biggest twists) falls perfectly in line with ring composition and SW as a poetic modern fairytale or myth. Nothing Rian did was shocking and IX will be the same.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by snufkin on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:24 pm

The horse has been dead and beaten into the ground, but both of my screenings have had a JW trailers. The attempt at emotionally charged banter between reunited exes in the opening dialogue in that trailer is so bad (and hey, you want to talk about actual negging? This is the relationship you're looking for), I was like "thank god JJ's coming back. No wonder DR started crying in happiness/relief." That writing duo doesn't have the skillset to follow up what RJ wrote and would've come up with something obvious like Evil Renperer. Who magically acquires all of the leadership skills and sangfroid he's shown to not have in the previous two films. And Rey will be the depressed Jedi lady who realizes she would've been happier as a DS trophy wife. Not saying JJ's co-writer is hot sh*t (and LK is still around and likely will get asked to look at it), but Jesus Christ do I feel so much better about IX with JJ at the helm after seeing what RJ wrote.

As for Renperer, so we know from the VD that he bombs out on Crait due to his emotions not being in check. So that's part of his challenge now that he's got what he always wanted and has to live up to whatever expectation he's built up in his mind about finally being in charge and carrying out the family birthright to rule the galaxy. Which he can actually do that when the situation calls for it - controlling his emotions how he was able to outwit Snoke and save Rey. We will probably see some of that because he has Hux breathing down his neck but as for his emotions regarding what happened with Han and then Rey? Who knows?

One big strike against him is that a lot of what he's done previously involved backup (Phasma or Rey) and goading by somebody like Snoke. Going forward, he's on his own as the man in charge, which went down as an insurrection against the previous man in charge, and then an outright lie to Hux. Who appears to be keeping his head down while sharpening his own knives. Doesn't the VD also include Hux's own ambitions & willingness to backstab?  As for the FO score card - they're out a leader who was a master chess player in pulling together/manipulating different groups with different agendas and Paige and Holdo managed to wipe out major assets and personnel. Ben appears to have inherited his mother's Force powers, but so far hasn't shown that he has her skill in negotiating/leading other people. If anything, the FO personnel seem to regard him as somebody to either humor or avoid because of his scary Force powers and tantrums.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:00 pm

@ZioRen wrote:I really, REALLY don't want a years long time skip but I get the feeling I ought to make my peace with it now. Mostly because I have some doubts about them portraying Renperor in a particularly nuanced way and I'm doubting they're going to let us point all the fingers at Hux, the "real" bad guy.
@ZioRen

I'm with you, for several reasons.

The first (and biggest) reason is that I don't want to see them completely throwing away the completely broken state that Kylo was in at the end of TLJ. IF we get a several years time jump, I think you almost have to go with him being a decent leader, otherwise what was the purpose of that heartbreaking ending of TLJ?

The other reason is that Rian left so many wonderful character development nuggets at the end of TLJ--Rey's loneliness/heartbreak, Poe ascending to take on leadership of the Rebellion, FinnRose's developing relationship, and the biggest out of these--the Force Bond.

If we jump ahead 5 years at this point, we'd have to guess that Rey completely figures out how to shut down the bond, and there's no contact between Rey and Kylo. Sure, you can have a love story of reunited exes, but that's not what felt like what was being set up.

In that wonderful "redeem your villian" post that @MeadowofAshes shared, with Kylo's arc, we'd be looking at a "villain" who got everything he wanted and discovered that he was miserable at the start of IX. That doesn't sound like a multi-year time jump to me--at most, it's a few months.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:11 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Atenais wrote:Since I didn't have any headcanon, I liked Remperor. Mostly because it let things totally unpredictable. From what I see, nobody really know what will happen next. In this moment, looks like all fandoms are gathering their ashes and trying to analyse and predict things again, what is super exciting.

Of course, as part of the Redemption Team, I'm very worried and afraid. Because I don't know what will happen next. Redeemed Kylo looks obvious to me, but we don't have the movie yet, so I can't be sure, the cards are back on the table. It's a thrilling, but scary sensation.

There's a thing I would like to share. These days I've been talking a lot about SW  with fans and GA, and from what I see, most of them think that Kylo will die in the next movie, as if it was something certain. And I don't think that people behind SW would like to do something that everybody thinks will happen for sure. So, this is a good thing, right?

Oh, and I want to say that I love to see so many connections between Star Wars and classical romances, it's so funny to think that these fanboys, in the end, are so thrilled from watching Pride & Prejudice in Space. XD
@Atenais

This is actually a good sign of things to come. I’ve said before that HE’S GOING TO DIE is now the new Reywalker, and well, look how that one turned out... Laughing

@IoJovi
I was always pretty sure "Kylo's going to live/die" would be the major debate going into IX. There's no debate to be had about redemption as far as I'm concerned. Unredeemed last Skywalker in the Skywalker saga? Lol, sure, Anne Jan.

People can go on about how everything in VIII comes out of left field but the whole film (including its biggest twists) falls perfectly in line with ring composition and SW as a poetic modern fairytale or myth. Nothing Rian did was shocking and IX will be the same.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Why redemption seems so incomprehensible to people? From what I see, only Reylos talk about redemption. GA and fanboys are sure about Kylo being killed.

The bolded: I'm laughing aloud here.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by Piper Maru on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:17 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:The most difficult aspects of Kylo's "redemption" are intelligently and thoroughly dealt with in TLJ. I'm really confused by the focus on Kylo's position alone when his redemption arc has already begun.

Han's murder? That "split his spirit to the bone" and was part of what caused him to become disenfranchised with Snoke. Tragic backstory/Luke's temple massacre? Luke thought about murdering him and with the weight of his family's betrayal Ben destroyed everything. Rey hating Kylo's guts? Nullified. Rey cares immensely about him and his entire family despite her better judgment. Kylo and Snoke? Well, Kylo's feelings for Rey lead to Snoke's downfall. Luke and Ben? "No one is ever really gone" and the promise of future haunting. Humanization? We see Kylo as a true Skywalker, a character with genuine feelings and weaknesses. He is called "Ben Solo" by those who know him. He is the last Skywalker, and that matters.

Kylo is over the major hurtles. Rian navigated the character through patricide, the protagonist's and audience's hatred of him, his backstory and caused him to emerge more sympathetic than ever despite taking over the FO in a state of emotional distress.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Pretty much this.

I always liked the Renperor scenario and I think it was the best way to end his character in TLJ. He got what he wanted and he surpassed Vader in almost every level, and yet he's completely miserable and sad.

Kylo is unpredictable, but the only thing that is constant in his character is how he tries to be a villain and fails at it. In TFA, his actions broke him physically (wounds all over his face and body) and emotionally (losing his father). Now, he lost his girlfriend and the respect of his entire army.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:33 pm

I personally think there will be a time jump, but it won't be long. The war is so close to being won that I imagine the Resistance is going to bunker down somewhere to regroup and plan. They'll send word to their allies once again but this time will receive a response. In the meantime Rey will focus on her training, the Rebellion will rebuild in secret and Kylo will probably pursue them. I can see Hux becoming increasingly hell-bent on galaxy-wide oppression while Kylo cares only about destroying the remnants of the Rebellion and Jedi. Meanwhile, Luke will be haunting Ben ala Hamlet.

TLJ already threw "there must be a time-jump between every film" out the window. There has to be a small one just because nobody cares to see the Resistance settling down, rebuilding or Rey reading "non-page turner" books and training to be a Jedi, but the war is in a very critical state and any long time skip would feel quite inorganic, IMO. A year or so time skip makes sense, but anything beyond that... eh.

I'm not against a longer time-skip because ultimately there's no way they aren't going into IX with the full intention of redeeming Ben Solo and the Skywalker family. Kylo isn't going to develop into the perfect cackling Emperor villain off-screen, he's going to be as emotionally distressed as ever and it's going to show. That's the character. Even in the wake of getting everything he thought he wanted he's as high-strung and on the verge of tears as ever. Only he can save himself, and he will.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:42 pm

it doesn't hurt that the last we see of Kylo, which is the last Rey sees of him too, is his most beautiful and vulnerable self ever. Which is saying a lot.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:51 pm

@vaderito wrote:it doesn't hurt that the last we see of Kylo, which is the last Rey sees of him too, is his most beautiful and vulnerable self ever. Which is saying a lot.
@vaderito
That was very intentional. We're not meant to be given the image of great, powerful Supreme Leader Kylo ascending. He's on his knees, holding a remnant of his family and looking up at what he's sure he lost with the most broken expression.
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:57 pm

Poor Renperor trying to hold a disappearing dice. Sad Poor Rey clutching the two halves of the Skywalker saber. Sad
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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 4:16 pm

@vaderito wrote:Poor Renperor trying to hold a disappearing dice. Sad Poor Rey clutching the two halves of the Skywalker saber. Sad
@vaderito

Rey looking at Finn and Rose with a smile on her face as if to say she’s happy for them, then looking down at the broken saber with the most melancholy expression ever tears me in two every time. How ANYBODY can read jealous FinnRey out of that perplexes the living daylights out of me...

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Re: The Renperor thread

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@vaderito wrote:Poor Renperor trying to hold a disappearing dice. Sad Poor Rey clutching the two halves of the Skywalker saber. Sad
@vaderito

Rey looking at Finn and Rose with a smile on her face as if to say she’s happy for them, then looking down at the broken saber with the most melancholy expression ever tears me in two every time. How ANYBODY can read jealous FinnRey out of that perplexes the living daylights out of me...

@IoJovi

It's all about Ben. But you know those people who believed in Anastasia lullaby so...
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