The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Atenais on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 8:34 am

@PalmettoBlue wrote:I just listened to Kevin Smith's review (1.5 hours on YouTube.) It was recommended to me by a friend who is a bit more of a general audience member than I am. She's one who wants less symbolism and more straight up, no misinterpreting this. I'm not sure exactly what else she needed from TLJ...but I digress.

My short review of his long review: He liked the movie, but he didn't really delve into any of the themes that are so apparent. And he steered very clear of any in depth discussion of the Force bond, which I think is the most compelling part of the movie. He also wanted Luke to actually be on Crait.

NO. Just NO. Link below if you are interested, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRwmtpr79qE
@PalmettoBlue

It's interesting to see that, because yesterday I listened a podcast from 4 nerd fanboys. And while they liked the movie and thought all changes were very good to the future of the saga, they didn't talk much about the Force Bond. So I don't know if men are avoiding to talk about it on purpose of if they aren't comfortable to talk about it. (I will not share the link, because it's in Portuguese, but the podcast was pretty positive about the movie and I was really happy to listen it, since they were the typical fanboys - and they praised Adam to the skies).
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by MrsWindu on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:55 pm

Forgive me, I’m sure someone had previously posted a link to a Bustle article about clues that Kylo and Rey will get it together in IX because I remember reading it and the link to it is in a new Bustle piece. It starts off fine then includes a handful of other ‘fan’ theories but I’m not sure I quite understand the last paragraph

While many believe that Episode IX will include an official Reylo union, it might be better if it doesn't. Rey is so much more than just an impetus for Kylo to turn to the good side, and she should be treated as such.

Posting it in case anyone wants to read it
https://www.bustle.com/p/these-kylo-ren-rey-relationship-theories-could-change-how-star-wars-fans-feel-about-reylo-7700184
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Birdwoman on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:58 pm

I thought the movie already set it up that Kylo has to save himself. I think that journalist needs to watch the movie again.

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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by MrsWindu on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:13 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:I thought the movie already set it up that Kylo has to save himself. I think that journalist needs to watch the movie again.
@Birdwoman

Thanks! I get confused sometimes as English wasn’t always my first language and even now I think text gets lost in translation in my head.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by ZioRen on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:32 pm

@MrsWindu wrote:Forgive me, I’m sure someone had previously posted a link to a Bustle article about clues that Kylo and Rey will get it together in IX because I remember reading it and the link to it is in a new Bustle piece. It starts off fine then includes a handful of other ‘fan’ theories but I’m not sure I quite understand the last paragraph  

While many believe that Episode IX will include an official Reylo union, it might be better if it doesn't. Rey is so much more than just an impetus for Kylo to turn to the good side, and she should be treated as such.

Posting it in case anyone wants to read it
https://www.bustle.com/p/these-kylo-ren-rey-relationship-theories-could-change-how-star-wars-fans-feel-about-reylo-7700184
@MrsWindu

How ridiculous. Rey is the main characer. Her romance arc can't make her a plot device in her own story. They're still talking like Rey is the pure love interest nobody character that's attached to the main male protagonist. She isn't. Nobody says that a male protagonist with a love interest loses his agency simply by having that romance. Kylo being a "bad boy" on a redemption path that Rey inspires doesn't change anything in that respect.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by vaderito on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 2:51 pm

What's up with Bustle? They have different writers every day or what? cause so far, they wrote pro-any ship combo imaginable. Whatever.

Also, whether that writer likes it or not, Rey and Kylo/Ben will be reunited. What does he/she think the story is going to be about?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Guest on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 4:24 pm

This was kind of interesting up to a point r.e why love never seems to work out in Star Wars. The continued disclaimers about Rey and Kylo maybe being related and the love triangle stuff at the end was ridiculous, though (not to mention the conclusion about Reylo Rolling Eyes )


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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by PalmettoBlue on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 5:51 pm

I am now surrounding myself with an echo chamber of Reylos. I know I might live to regret this because we *could* be wrong.
I doubt it.
But it could happen. Maybe.
I just get frustrated listening to the surface level looks at the movie. And sometimes, they don't even bother to actually take things at face value.
One breath: Take things at face value.
Next breath: Rey is probably still related.

What. the. actual. hell.
Make up your minds....
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 5:55 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:I am now surrounding myself with an echo chamber of Reylos. I know I might live to regret this because we *could* be wrong.
I doubt it.
But it could happen. Maybe.
I just get frustrated listening to the surface level looks at the movie. And sometimes, they don't even bother to actually take things at face value.
One breath: Take things at face value.
Next breath: Rey is probably still related.

What. the. actual. hell.
Make up your minds....
@PalmettoBlue

This is what I’ve done, and so far I have yet to regret it. I have TRIED to venture out beyond these walls as on paper it should be enjoyable to have conversations with the larger fandom as a whole. So far that’s been unfruitful, to say the least. Some just have their minds hammered shut to not only Reylo, but logical storytelling.

It just isn’t fun. While most of us didn’t predict Renperor, we were absolutely spot on 100% with the way Ben and Rey’s relationship would unfold. I trust our camp above anyone else.

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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by rey09 on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 7:39 pm

Idk if this was posted before- buy reylo made it on the list!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/keelyflaherty/fictional-couples-whose-love-helped-us-survive-2017?utm_term=.tlpm6ykxA#.kwJmWAlY7

Some anti comments tho at the bottom...

2017 has been great because of reylo and joneryss woohooo. not only one but twoo epic power couples.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by IoJovi on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 7:42 pm

@rey09 wrote:Idk if this was posted before- buy reylo made it on the list!

https://www.buzzfeed.com/keelyflaherty/fictional-couples-whose-love-helped-us-survive-2017?utm_term=.tlpm6ykxA#.kwJmWAlY7

Some anti comments tho at the bottom...

2017 has been great because of reylo and joneryss woohooo. not only one but twoo epic power couples.
@rey09

I leaned a long time ago not to read ANY comments related to SW, but thanks for the heads up. I love that our pair made the list!!!

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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 11:09 pm

Hux and Kylo top Film School Rejects list of Top Villains of 2017. They're usually relatively insightful, but clearly on the GA/Kylo has reached the Point of No Return here:

https://filmschoolrejects.com/best-movie-villains-2017/?utm_content=buffer6d230&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

2. Hux wrote:
What began in Star Wars: The Force Awakens as just an interesting, rivalrous division of deputy villains serving under Supreme Leader Snoke became a more delicious duel of personalities in the sequel, mostly thanks to Domhnall Gleeson’s expressiveness when gloating or trying to suppress embarrassment. Hux doesn’t get to do a lot in The Last Jedi, and that makes him even more compelling for being a villain of competence and a certain rationale who would be rightful ruler if only he didn’t have to compete with a dark wizard.

1. Kylo Ren wrote:
That wizard is Kylo Ren, grandson of the most famous movie villain of all time, Darth Vader. In The Force Awakens, he showed promise as another iconic bad guy, but he was also a bit too bratty — more Hayden Christensen’s Anakin than the Vader version. In The Last Jedi, he evolves in some ways yet is still consumed by a hyper-focused need to prove himself, which is coupled with his distracting obsessive wrath against all of his father figures. He’s as complicated a villain as they come, and at the end of the latest episode, it’s difficult to see where the character is headed. One big question going into The Last Jedi was will Kylo Ren turn good, but going into the next movie it’s how bad will he get now that he’s the new Supreme Leader.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by snufkin on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 11:17 pm

@ISeeAnIsland I saw that and immediately thought of poor Hux getting stuck as runner-up. Funny thing about that review, it doesn't mention anything about how Kylo gets involved with Rey.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 11:22 pm

@snufkin wrote:@ISeeAnIsland I saw that and immediately thought of poor Hux getting stuck as runner-up. Funny thing about that review, it doesn't mention anything about how Kylo gets involved with Rey.
@snufkin

Nope. I'm kind of amazed at how many reviews/"think pieces" don't seem to want to touch the Reylo aspect with a 10-foot pole.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Saracene on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 11:39 pm

The ability of (most) people to ignore what's right there on the screen never ceases to amaze me.

Yep, that's our Totally Evil Supreme Leader right there, kneeling on the floor like a penitent and looking at his girl like he's a dog that's been kicked. Come ON!

The funniest thing is that the series now pulled the same trick twice. "He killed Han Solo! He's totally completed his slide into evil!" LOL

On the positive side, Adam is guaranteed to win the MTV Best Villain award again Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by snufkin on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 12:06 am

It almost feels like how people keep slipping back into the whole "Rey's parents" narrative even after the movie has blown that question up and the actress who plays her clearly has had it with that line of discussion. Like they're obviously deconstructing the mythology around the franchise (and the Chosen One narrative in general) with her being the daughter of Nothing and showing how the lineage expectations blew up in Luke's face and landed Ben under Snoke's control/messed up his thinking. But instead it's "we're getting a proper blockbuster film bad guy." People are so locked into that mindset and expectations, they can't seem to figure out that no, he's not just going to be yet another boring villain with quips who gets killed off by the good guys.

And yes, there have been a handful of film critics who have zero'd in on their relationship and identified it as the central one for the trilogy. Including the Times of London reviewer who made the "Jane Eyre" comparison and then said something to the effect that if the two of them don't get a proper happy ending at the end of IX, he'd personally sue Lucasfilm. And Priscilla Page compared it to a story about two adult survivors of childhood trauma who bond and have the potential to eventually heal/get together. But like TFA, those type of thoughtful and intelligent reviews are few and far between. And it's crazy because we now have in writing that RJ watched TFA in 2014 during the editing process and immediately zero'd in on those two characters and how they related to one another as the most important/interesting relationship of the ST. Which is what all of us here went through. But meanwhile, the reviews have been pretty lacking and overlook that critical detail.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 7:15 am

@Saracene wrote:The ability of (most) people to ignore what's right there on the screen never ceases to amaze me.

Yep, that's our Totally Evil Supreme Leader right there, kneeling on the floor like a penitent and looking at his girl like he's a dog that's been kicked. Come ON!

The funniest thing is that the series now pulled the same trick twice. "He killed Han Solo! He's totally completed his slide into evil!" LOL

On the positive side, Adam is guaranteed to win the MTV Best Villain award again Smile
@Saracene
Yep, it's the second time people are looking at the screen and not really seeing what's there. I know this doesn't represent the GA perception at all (nothing on the internet really does), but it's a good sign that they're so thoroughly snowed once again. It won't matter when Rian's commentary comes out and he talks all about how he wanted to show how "barely living" and broken Kylo is after the events of TLJ, they'll still think it irrelevant going into IX just as they thought Kylo's immediate heart-wrenching grief upon killing Han wouldn't matter in the slightest.

I'm still curious as to how they think Kylo can get eviler. TLJ did a pretty good job of proving that nothing can do that while dealing with patricide, his backstory and Rey hating him. All of those hurtles are largely forgotten now. TLJ is the beginning of a redemption arc whether people want to accept it or not. That's how it's done. You address key points and encourage the audience to move past them by presenting counter points like Ben and Leia's mother and son moment, Snoke goading Kylo, Kylo helping Rey, etc.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 7:21 am

@snufkin wrote:It almost feels like how people keep slipping back into the whole "Rey's parents" narrative even after the movie has blown that question up and the actress who plays her clearly has had it with that line of discussion. Like they're obviously deconstructing the mythology around the franchise (and the Chosen One narrative in general) with her being the daughter of Nothing and showing how the lineage expectations blew up in Luke's face and landed Ben under Snoke's control/messed up his thinking. But instead it's "we're getting a proper blockbuster film bad guy." People are so locked into that mindset and expectations, they can't seem to figure out that no, he's not just going to be yet another boring villain with quips who gets killed off by the good guys.
@snufkin

I love how Kylo is like directly talking to the audience about some of the parentage stuff and there’s still denial.

Rey might still be a Skywalker
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by rey09 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 7:38 am

I find it funny how everyone before TLJ was like Rey is a Skywalker because "sw is about the skywalkers!!" and now that kylo is the last skywalker, they're like "well....good riddance they cause so much destruction end them!!" wtf?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by PalmettoBlue on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 7:41 am

@rey09 So true. SO, SO, SO true.

I read this article, and I feel like it sums up, however unintentionally, the difference between this community and the "rest" of the fandom (and by fandom, I don't mean the GA...I mean the others-who-must-not-be-named.)
Holdo's Sacrifice
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 8:41 am

@rey09 wrote:I find it funny how everyone before TLJ was like Rey is a Skywalker because "sw is about the skywalkers!!" and now that kylo is the last skywalker, they're like "well....good riddance they cause so much destruction end them!!" wtf?
@rey09

Yep! I keep hearing people say, “Well, I guess Episode 9 will be the end of the Skywalkers cuz there’s no way Kylo can live.” One guy I listened to yesterday said he’s expecting a looong ROTS style lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo at the end of Episode 9, complete with an “I loved you!” line from Rey before she destroys him. Suspect
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by vaderito on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 8:53 am

With all due respect, this is how Kylo's crimes rank after TLJ:

Killed Snoke theories 90%

Killed Han 8%

Other (including that he didn't cover his chest when Rey asked) 2%

I'm sorry but killing Snoke theories is UNREDEEMABLE.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by rawpowah on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:10 am

By the looks of it we're getting a repeat of the post-TFA discourse, where everyone seems to have watched a completely different movie from us. That can only bode well for us once IX premieres. Just like last time with TLJ. It's like poetry! Laughing
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by IoJovi on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:16 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@rey09 wrote:I find it funny how everyone before TLJ was like Rey is a Skywalker because "sw is about the skywalkers!!" and now that kylo is the last skywalker, they're like "well....good riddance they cause so much destruction end them!!" wtf?
@rey09

Yep! I keep hearing people say, “Well, I guess Episode 9 will be the end of the Skywalkers cuz there’s no way Kylo can live.” One guy I listened to yesterday said he’s expecting a looong ROTS style lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo at the end of Episode 9, complete with an “I loved you!” line from Rey before she destroys him. Suspect
@Cowgirlsamurai

Right? Some folks literally can not grasp the concept of foreshadowing. Do they really think they’d tease an overt (and YES it was overt) romance between Rey and Ben, only to never address it again ever? How did these people pass English class in high school? Did they?
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Re: The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

Post by rey09 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:24 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@rey09 wrote:I find it funny how everyone before TLJ was like Rey is a Skywalker because "sw is about the skywalkers!!" and now that kylo is the last skywalker, they're like "well....good riddance they cause so much destruction end them!!" wtf?
@rey09

Yep! I keep hearing people say, “Well, I guess Episode 9 will be the end of the Skywalkers cuz there’s no way Kylo can live.” One guy I listened to yesterday said he’s expecting a looong ROTS style lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo at the end of Episode 9, complete with an “I loved you!” line from Rey before she destroys him. Suspect
@Cowgirlsamurai

Right? Some folks literally can not grasp the concept of foreshadowing. Do they really think they’d tease an overt (and YES it was overt) romance between Rey and Ben, only to never address it again ever? How did these people pass English class in high school? Did they?
@IoJovi @PalmettoBlue Ugh just thinking about the majority of the fandom just makes me so angry. There is a such a culture of anti-intellectualism within the star wars nerdom. They are so ingrained in the action and sci-elements that they forget it's a story about love and humanity.
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