The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles

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Post by rawpowah on Wed 17 Jan - 19:56

@SoloSideCousin I'm in agreement with your comment.

If IX ignores or diminishes Kylo's abuse and trauma, I too will be very upset and disappointed. I really don't want the message of this series to be about blaming abuse victims for how they cope with their abuse, while suggesting they have no reason to be angry at those who played a part in it. I also don't want it to be about how Kylo is always wrong and Rey is always right and the Resistance is perfect blah blah.

It's very easy to interpret Luke and Ben's confrontation on Crait as Luke projecting himself with the express purpose of humiliating his nephew (by letting the Resistance escape), while completely downplaying the fact that Luke actually tried to kill Ben and lied to his parents about it. A lot of viewers I've seen are certainly looking at the scene from the perspective that Kylo was unreasonable to be angry at his family and deserved to be triggered and humiliated by Luke. The movie ends with kids playing with Luke action figures to boot.

Leia didn't come out smelling like roses in this movie for me either, and I never got the impression that she really cared that much about Ben to look for him herself in TFA and TLJ (why Rian didn't include a moment in the Leia/Luke scene where she volunteers to go out and face her son before Luke decides he has to be the one to do it, is beyond me). I guess they were saving Leia for Episode IX, but now that we lost Carrie I have no idea how JJ is going to resolve that relationship. The only hope I have is that we'll get some scenes with Ben and Luke's force ghost, where his uncle actually tries to have a serious discussion without taunting and triggering his nephew on purpose. I want a genuine apology.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Wed 17 Jan - 20:15

@vaderito wrote:That HR article is disappointed that things reverted to status quo between Rey and Kylo and disappointment is justified. They are stretching will they-won't they because they want resolution in IX or otherwise they may peak too early. But it's still stretching so one has to notice that things should have been more ambiguous and less "and now lets rush to get to another dull action scene" (aka Rey shooting TIE fighters). her moment of reflection was needed but it was never shown.
@vaderito

Yes! This!^^^

TV shows stretch out romances all the time ... But they generally give you insight into what both characters are feeling to tide you over, to keep you interested, to let you know that good or bad, both characters were affected.

TLJ didn't do this. That cut to Rey shooting the TIE fighters might have well as been a blank slate, a "Ben? Who's Ben?" moment, while over here Ben is having the biggest jilted lover breakdown of all time.  And as such, his affection starts to look rather one-sided, like now that she is back to the Resistance, she is back to normalcy. That she has overcome her darkness and has left that dark, doubting place where she seemed to be falling for him.

Yes, she looked a little taken aback on the top of the ramp and melancholy on the MF. But they had her mouth the Resistance propaganda and say nothing about him.

I'm not saying that she doesn't care about him. Those little bits were in there to let us know "something" was still there for those who watch closely. But all the other, overwhelming "Yay! Resistance! I am light!" stuff was narrative jerking around and mystery boxing for two reasons.

(1) They want people to think Rey and Kylo are over because they want it to be a surprise in IX.
(2) They want you to think that Ben is a hopelessly lost bad villain so it is a surprise when he pulls it together in IX.

Neither of these has anything to do with organic storytelling or character behavior. This is about appeasing the trilogy framework. As such, a lot of that ending stuff felt uber-artificial compared to what we had in the first two-thirds of the movie.
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Post by vaderito on Wed 17 Jan - 20:22

@SoloSideCousin That's the reason why he ends up a much more interesting character in both TFA and TLJ than she. he is allowed to get moments of reflection and breakdown that are clearly in response to the rejection (or patricide in TFA). OTOH, because they still see Rey as a positive message rather than a character, she has to revert to positive messaging and that robs her of depth.
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Post by nickandnora on Wed 17 Jan - 20:49

@rawpowah wrote:Leia didn't come out smelling like roses in this movie for me either, and I never got the impression that she really cared that much about Ben to look for him herself in TFA and TLJ (why Rian didn't include a moment in the Leia/Luke scene where she volunteers to go out and face her son before Luke decides he has to be the one to do it, is beyond me). I guess they were saving Leia for Episode IX, but now that we lost Carrie I have no idea how JJ is going to resolve that relationship.
If I was writing this thing (which, alas, I'm not) I think the most attractive option would be for Leia's (offscreen) death to be the catalyst for Rey and Kylo to speak again. Either they both experience sorrow at the same time because Rey learns the news and Kylo "feels" it and it causes the force bond to reopen, or (and I kind of like this second option better) because Rey reaches out to Kylo for the first time since shutting the door to tell him that his mother is dead. From there, I think I would have Kylo's reaction mirror the audience's sorrow at not being able to get what they assumed they were going to get: closure regarding Leia's arc. If you think about it, they could make it fit well with the interactions with the other three. a) He thought he would get closure by murdering his father; he didn't. 2) He thought he would get closure by confronting Luke: he didn't. On some level, Kylo probably always believed that he would come face to face with his mother, and if his facial expressions in the Last Jedi were anything to go by, his feelings about her were probably the softest and most complex of the three. To learn that he was NEVER going to have the chance to see her again, might just be the most fitting catalyst at this juncture to set up his emotional arc for the rest of the next film. That is, if J.J. is able to write it well, of course.

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Post by CienaRee on Wed 17 Jan - 20:50

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@vaderito wrote:That HR article is disappointed that things reverted to status quo between Rey and Kylo and disappointment is justified. They are stretching will they-won't they because they want resolution in IX or otherwise they may peak too early. But it's still stretching so one has to notice that things should have been more ambiguous and less "and now lets rush to get to another dull action scene" (aka Rey shooting TIE fighters). her moment of reflection was needed but it was never shown.
@vaderito

Yes! This!^^^

TV shows stretch out romances all the time ... But they generally give you insight into what both characters are feeling to tide you over, to keep you interested, to let you know that good or bad, both characters were affected.

TLJ didn't do this. That cut to Rey shooting the TIE fighters might have well as been a blank slate, a "Ben? Who's Ben?" moment, while over here Ben is having the biggest jilted lover breakdown of all time.  And as such, his affection starts to look rather one-sided, like now that she is back to the Resistance, she is back to normalcy. That she has overcome her darkness and has left that dark, doubting place where she seemed to be falling for him.

Yes, she looked a little taken aback on the top of the ramp and melancholy on the MF. But they had her mouth the Resistance propaganda and say nothing about him.

I'm not saying that she doesn't care about him. Those little bits were in there to let us know "something" was still there for those who watch closely. But all the other, overwhelming "Yay! Resistance! I am light!" stuff was narrative jerking around and mystery boxing for two reasons.

(1) They want people to think Rey and Kylo are over because they want it to be a surprise in IX.
(2) They want you to think that Ben is a hopelessly lost bad villain so it is a surprise when he pulls it together in IX.

Neither of these has anything to do with organic storytelling or character behavior. This is about appeasing the trilogy framework. As such, a lot of that ending stuff felt uber-artificial compared to what we had in the first two-thirds of the movie.
@SoloSideCousin

That was really disappointing because she really looked heartbroken when Ben rejected her offer and by not including the aftermath of that just took away so much from Rey as a character because if you compare it with TFA she was allowed to be angry and heartbroken at Han dying and you can see that while she's fighting Ben and afterwards with Finn.That was good character writing and showed us that Rey also has a dark side to herself instead of a boring one dimensional character.
I just can't believe they didn't show Rey's feelings in the aftermath because they didn't care or thought it was important enough especially since she's supposed to be the main character besides Ben.It would be super disappointing if they decided to not show her grief because they value her more as a role model than an actual character.Hell,even Finn wasn't being all smiley and acting like nothing ever happened when Rose got hurt so what gives with Rey?


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Post by Kylo Rey on Wed 17 Jan - 20:50

@MrsWindu wrote:I don’t think anyone has posted a link to this :


The Last Jedi: Professional Reviews, Articles  - Page 15 F209ea10

The podcast link

http://www.maximumfun.org/bullseye/bullseye-jesse-thorn-rian-johnson-last-jedi-ian-parton-ninja-go-team

Only started listening to this but one of the first things Rian says about being offered TLJ was ‘my brain was leaking out of my butt’
@MrsWindu

Thanks for posting this. A few tidbits: He already knew Kathleen Kennedy before being asked to do TLJ as he'd had a few general meetings with her before so he had no idea what was coming when she called another meeting and finally asked him to direct it lol. He was asked about Luke tossing the lightsaber away and his interpretation again seems to line up with what Reylo's had been saying - that Luke had a huge sense of guilt and was keeping himself on the island for what he felt was the good of the galaxy (he directly paralleled it to ESB and how Luke goes to save his friends but refuses the call this time) - he was hardly going to greet Rey as anything but grumpy Luke as that was what made sense from the situation Luke had been set up in. After Carrie Fisher passed away he met up with KK after New Years and went through all of her scenes and considered coming up with a "manufactured ending" but ultimately decided against it because it wouldn't be emotionally satisfying. He also wanted her entire performance to remain intact. Interviewer asked him about how SW usually has a mythological divine right of kings thing going on with regards to bloodline and if Rey in TLJ subverts that. Rian said that Rey was an example of how a powerful force user can come from anywhere but more importantly, Rey's parentage arose from a need to have her face the hardest thing she needed to face and that she needed to come into her own and be defined by herself and nobody else (again, called it an inverse of Luke/Vader as the hardest thing for him to face was that the monster in the black suit was his father). He explicitly says in this podcast that Rey isn't Luke's daughter (like word for word) btw, for the Reywalker diehards out there. Anyway, good interview. I'd love to hear him talk about Rey and Kylo in depth, always interesting to listen to.
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Post by rawpowah on Wed 17 Jan - 20:58

@nickandnora wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:Leia didn't come out smelling like roses in this movie for me either, and I never got the impression that she really cared that much about Ben to look for him herself in TFA and TLJ (why Rian didn't include a moment in the Leia/Luke scene where she volunteers to go out and face her son before Luke decides he has to be the one to do it, is beyond me). I guess they were saving Leia for Episode IX, but now that we lost Carrie I have no idea how JJ is going to resolve that relationship.
If I was writing this thing (which, alas, I'm not) I think the most attractive option would be for Leia's (offscreen) death to be the catalyst for Rey and Kylo to speak again. Either they both experience sorrow at the same time because Rey learns the news and Kylo "feels" it and it causes the force bond to reopen, or (and I kind of like this second option better) because Rey reaches out to Kylo for the first time since shutting the door to tell him that his mother is dead. From there, I think I would have Kylo's reaction mirror the audience's sorrow at not being able to get what they assumed they were going to get: closure regarding Leia's arc. If you think about it, they could make it fit well with the interactions with the other three. a) He thought he would get closure by murdering his father; he didn't. 2) He thought he would get closure by confronting Luke: he didn't. On some level, Kylo probably always believed that he would come face to face with his mother, and if his facial expressions in the Last Jedi were anything to go by, his feelings about her were probably the softest and most complex of the three. To learn that he was NEVER going to have the chance to see her again, might just be the most fitting catalyst at this juncture to set up his emotional arc for the rest of the next film. That is, if J.J. is able to write it well, of course.
@nickandnora

Yes, this would be a solution. Additionally, JJ could write in Leia's final words and have Rey convey them to Ben. Or something.
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Post by snufkin on Wed 17 Jan - 20:59

I'd be willing to be part of how the story got wrapped up at the end of TLJ was to drag out the drama for a 3rd movie and also in a manner which wasn't too shocking for the status quo because it is SW and Disney. Most of us here had thought what would be likely and interesting would be a team-up where they gave the finger to their mutual bosses/masters and took off together to find a 3rd way. And for whatever reason, either that would upset a fanbase who has to be walked into the idea that Luke would be a depressed and angry hippie who f**ked up later in life. OR that the filmmakers thought that scenario would mean having to keep Snoke as the big bad and let that character/plot points suck up oxygen better spent on the newer characters.

And @SoloSideCousin - "appeasing the trilogy framework" (and appeasing the types of frameworks a lot of fans have been conditioned into thanks to an assembly line of various fantasy/sci-fi/comic book/superhero properties taking over mainstream pop culture) is about right. This is where some of the breakdown in audience perception happens, I think. Because a lot of us here are obvs fans of the franchise, including those of us who grew up with the OT. But we're also fans of different genres of movies, television series, games, and literature. So our cultural diets are maybe a little more diverse and comprehensive than what the GA and the hardcore fans (be they hardcore about the OT, PT, EU, etc) are used to. And that's where some of the breakdown in terms of expectations and predictions happen. But you look at a lot of fan reaction and reviews where it's like "it's great that they shook up expectations so now we can go into the next movie being a completely rote by the numbers hero versus villain type of story that every other major blockbuster does." And it's kind of amazing watching people go through the process of justifying what Luke originally did to Ben because it still manages to preserve Luke as a hero consistent with the OT/hagiography that fans have built up around the character.
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Post by Reynak on Wed 17 Jan - 21:04

@Kessel wrote:I’m also curious why we don’t see Rey’s immediate reaction after waking and escaping from the throne room. I guess it might be because we’re supposed to wonder where she is and/or how she feels?  But that doesn’t make sense because it’s clear she wants to go help the Resistance. Maybe Rian thought it was superfluous since we already know what decsion she made? I don’t know...I think it’s pretty important to see Rey’s frame of mind as the protagonist, especially since she left Kylo there alive AND armed.  I don’t know if the novel will include anything about it, but I doubt it since it’s probably not in the script.

I got the impression that we’re supposed to be excited/relieved when we see Rey on the MF in the gunner’s seat, but my reaction was just, what? Why is she laughing and smiling?
@Kessel

I felt the same. I was in the theatre wondering where the hell Rey was for what seemed to me an exagerated length of time. Then she appeared out of the blue on the Falcon when I had nearly forgotten her. This is disturbing because that was the grand final act of the movie and she wasn’t there. In the epic climax of the movie she was absent most of the time. That seemed Luke’s moment of glory and Kylo’s moment of defeat and derision because he was “the bad guy” and got what he deserved, Grr.

To make matters worse she turns up on the Falcon shooting as if she enjoyed it. What the ...!
Kylo is supposed to be evil (and he’s done horrible things) but never shows pleasure when doing something bad. I felt the same when I saw Finn cheerfully shooting ST in TFA. Why? Maybe they have to shoot and kill but do they have to enjoy it? How is it that they’re the good guys then? I don’t get it.

Maybe they wanted to make her look like Han Solo when he turned up unexpedtedly to save Luke so that he could destroy the DS. But it didn’t work for me this time and what’s more, in ANH Luke was the hero and the protagonist and Han wasn’t, so he could disappear and come back to save the day in the right moment, it was OK. It’s not the same with Rey, she was out of the picture for two long and she is supposed the be the heroine. We see everything though Luke and Kylo’s point of view after the explosion on Snoke’s ship and we don’t know what’s hailed to Rey or how she felt after what happened with Snoke and between her and Kylo. She comes back shooting and having fun when she hits a target as if that was a videogame? No,


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Post by Reynak on Wed 17 Jan - 21:13

Is she so superficial that she doesn’t think of Kylo after she shipped herself to him in an incredibly risky move? She didn’t accept his offer because she was committed to the Resistance or for more personal reasons like saving her friend’s lives, I get it. What I don’t get is shy she seems not to care about his fate, about her own feelings for him, about leaving him when it’s obvious this will break him because he is so damaged already.

I loved the movie, after watching it a second time, I must admit, but I still don’t like how carefree she seemed. She also seemed so happy to save what was left of the Resistance. That’s OK, that’s loyalty but what about Ben? Shouldn’t she be more conflicted and upset that she had to leave him the way she did?

I’m afraid this was done for mystery’s sake again, because otherwise this doesn’t make sense.


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Post by nickandnora on Wed 17 Jan - 21:27

She was just being Elizabeth Bennett in the immediate aftermath of Darcy's proposal: back to the status quo of outwardly hating Darcy when actually various complex feelings are worming their way under her skin. Smile I totally understand what you're saying though.

I think maybe they were stuck a bit between a rock and a hard place. The ending is bleak; the Resistance is reduced to about a dozen people on the Millennium Falcon. Tonally, it may have been too much for the main heroine to be outwardly too conflicted. Plus, (and this is just my personal opinion) Rose's "we're going to win this by saving what we love" paired with a clearly-confused-about-Kylo Rey may have seemed a tad too obvious. As it stood, considering all that transpired in this film with the Rey/Kylo bond, that line dropped with the approximate subtlety of an anvil.

I definitely agree with the criticism. I just think it's one of those things that will likely be unnoticeable on rewatch when the entire trilogy is complete, and the internal conflicts of IX are made more crystal clear.

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Post by Saracene on Wed 17 Jan - 21:52

@nickandnora I'd argue though that the ending is not really bleak at all. The Resistance is decimated yes, but they don't end the movie in a place of despair, they're hopeful and optimistic, Finn and Poe learned their lesson on how to be good Resistance boys, Luke dies full of peace, etc. I think that Rey's cheerful reappearance is there to line up tonally with this optimistic spirit, even though it makes little sense character-wise. Basically Kylo is the only character who ends the movie in a bleak place.

And yeah Episode IX might make Rey's motivations crystal-clear, but is this really a good way to tell a story or build a character? I honestly can't think of any other series that obscures its main protagonist to this degree.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Wed 17 Jan - 22:09

@Saracene wrote:@nickandnora I'd argue though that the ending is not really bleak at all. The Resistance is decimated yes, but they don't end the movie in a place of despair, they're hopeful and optimistic, Finn and Poe learned their lesson on how to be good Resistance boys, Luke dies full of peace, etc. I think that Rey's cheerful reappearance is there to line up tonally with this optimistic spirit, even though it makes little sense character-wise. Basically Kylo is the only character who ends the movie in a bleak place.

And yeah Episode IX might make Rey's motivations crystal-clear, but is this really a good way to tell a story or build a character? I honestly can't think of any other series that obscures its main protagonist to this degree.
@Saracene

But is Rey super cheerful in the end? Yeah she seems to be until the moment she sees Kylo again and then the feelings return. After that she is sitting alone and seems reflective as she looks at Finn and Rose and down at her saber. It is then Rey's feelings begin to show to the audience. My guess is they purposefully didn't show the throne room aftermath because it would have given to much away. The way Rey and Kylo cope with issues is the exact opposite. Rey throws herself into helping others and being ready to help and happy where with Kylo because of his anger and pain it is quite easy to understand his emotions and feelings.
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Post by Birdwoman on Wed 17 Jan - 22:14

Listening to Rian explain his choices has helped me understand Rey's character a little better at the end. I personally love this movie and what they did with the characters story arcs. But I can see why others have issues with how certain character arcs played out.

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Post by EchoBase on Thu 18 Jan - 20:15

https://medium.com/@zaron3/a-new-new-hope-luke-skywalker-and-the-soul-of-baby-boomer-men-966e6bae061e

Rian commented on this on twitter and said that’s very thoughtful and interesting.
It’s really a great read.

Kylo Ren, he’s an immature imitation of Luke’s father, Darth Vader, who Ren seeks to emulate since Luke failed to be the father figure his nephew needed. Ben Solo is the angry millennial man. He’s tempted by hate. He’s desirous of power. He’s a conflicted soul. It’s possible that he could be flipped back to being a good guy, one who so desperately wants to be seen, loved, heard, respected, and supported as he becomes the man he could be. The only person who still believes in him is his millennial girlfriend. Even his baby boomer mom, Leia, has lost faith that there is any hope to save him. He’s a lost young man.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 18 Jan - 20:51

@EchoBase wrote:https://medium.com/@zaron3/a-new-new-hope-luke-skywalker-and-the-soul-of-baby-boomer-men-966e6bae061e

Rian commented on this on twitter and said that’s very thoughtful and interesting.
It’s really a great read.

Kylo Ren, he’s an immature imitation of Luke’s father, Darth Vader, who Ren seeks to emulate since Luke failed to be the father figure his nephew needed. Ben Solo is the angry millennial man. He’s tempted by hate. He’s desirous of power. He’s a conflicted soul. It’s possible that he could be flipped back to being a good guy, one who so desperately wants to be seen, loved, heard, respected, and supported as he becomes the man he could be. The only person who still believes in him is his millennial girlfriend. Even his baby boomer mom, Leia, has lost faith that there is any hope to save him. He’s a lost young man.
@EchoBase

Just finished reading this one. I love the generational comparison articles. Kylo Ren as the personification of millenial rage speaks to me. Also, the Baby Boomer men not listening to millenial women thing. AND the Baby Boomer women having to do f***ing everything. YESSS.


As the soul of the baby boomer men, Luke Skywalker represents the best they could become. That is, if only they would get over their egos, start listening to millennial women, get the hell out of the way of Gen X dudes, and make amends to their baby boomer sisters who’ve been quietly carrying them the whole time, whether they recognize it or not.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 18 Jan - 23:10

His response is interesting because we've been saying this about the "Rey is going to join the Boy's Club and be a Jedi, yay!" line of argument

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Post by Acritiqua on Fri 19 Jan - 17:43

@EchoBase

I really liked this article. I thought it got Rey wrong though. Rey isn't a millennial, she's Gen Z (as are Finn and Rose). Also much as Gen Z grew up in a recession, Rey grows up among fallen Star Destroyers (out of the ruins). Finn and Rose also come from the ruins of the mistakes of the generations before them. Rey gets the low down on Luke's boomer issues and Kylo's angry millennial issues, but she's not here for those issues. She's here to set things right. She is frustrated with both of them.

Gen Z seems to sometimes be characterized as more pragmatic, competitive and demanding. It reminds me a lot of how Rey interacts with Luke. The disconnect between Rey and Luke isn't really like boomer vs. millennial in that the angry millennial is something boomers understand better (those are their kids). Gen Z is this new animal and Luke doesn't really know what to do with this young person who has shown up who is both eager to learn from him and demanding about what she thinks he should do (or be responsible/accountable for).
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 19 Jan - 18:05

@Acritiqua wrote:
@EchoBase

I really liked this article. I thought it got Rey wrong though. Rey isn't a millennial, she's Gen Z (as are Finn and Rose). Also much as Gen Z grew up in a recession, Rey grows up among fallen Star Destroyers (out of the ruins). Finn and Rose also come from the ruins of the mistakes of the generations before them. Rey gets the low down on Luke's boomer issues and Kylo's angry millennial issues, but she's not here for those issues. She's here to set things right. She is frustrated with both of them.

Gen Z seems to sometimes be characterized as more pragmatic, competitive and demanding. It reminds me a lot of how Rey interacts with Luke. The disconnect between Rey and Luke isn't really like boomer vs. millennial in that the angry millennial is something boomers understand better (those are their kids). Gen Z is this new animal and Luke doesn't really know what to do with this young person who has shown up who is both eager to learn from him and demanding about what she thinks he should do (or be responsible/accountable for).
@Acritiqua

This was my impression of the Millennial age range:

Wikipedia wrote:Millennials (also known as Generation Y) are the generational demographic cohort following Generation X. There are no precise dates for when this cohort starts or ends; demographers and researchers typically use the early 1980s as starting birth years and the mid-1990s to early 2000s as ending birth years.

If Rey was 19 in 2015, then she was born in 1996, which would make her a Millennial, no? Kylo is in the upper range of Millennials.
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Post by Acritiqua on Fri 19 Jan - 18:07

I think Rey is metaphorically a better match to Gen Z. I don't think it's about her age in 2015 (that's being rather literal).

But to be literal, Gen Z is born in mid 1990s to mid 2000s. So 19 in 2015 is definitely Gen Z.


Last edited by Acritiqua on Fri 19 Jan - 18:09; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 19 Jan - 18:07

@Acritiqua wrote:
@EchoBase

I really liked this article. I thought it got Rey wrong though. Rey isn't a millennial, she's Gen Z (as are Finn and Rose). Also much as Gen Z grew up in a recession, Rey grows up among fallen Star Destroyers (out of the ruins). Finn and Rose also come from the ruins of the mistakes of the generations before them. Rey gets the low down on Luke's boomer issues and Kylo's angry millennial issues, but she's not here for those issues. She's here to set things right. She is frustrated with both of them.

Gen Z seems to sometimes be characterized as more pragmatic, competitive and demanding. It reminds me a lot of how Rey interacts with Luke. The disconnect between Rey and Luke isn't really like boomer vs. millennial in that the angry millennial is something boomers understand better (those are their kids). Gen Z is this new animal and Luke doesn't really know what to do with this young person who has shown up who is both eager to learn from him and demanding about what she thinks he should do (or be responsible/accountable for).
@Acritiqua

Uhm no. Gen Z and Millenials are one and the same generation group. It's only called Gen Z because people still trying to follow the Gen X pattern.

Millenials aren't all like Kylo. What this article has illustrated is that Kylo and Rey are two sides of the Millenial generation. Kylo's side represents Millenial rage and all the nasty angst. Rey's side represents the Idealism and resourcefulness of Millenials and their knack for wanting to solve problems caused by Boomers.
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Post by Acritiqua on Fri 19 Jan - 18:14

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:@Acritiqua

Uhm no. Gen Z and Millenials are one and the same generation group. It's only called Gen Z because people still trying to follow the Gen X pattern.

Millenials aren't all like Kylo. What this article has illustrated is that Kylo and Rey are two sides of the Millenial generation. Kylo's side represents Millenial rage and all the nasty angst. Rey's side represents the Idealism and resourcefulness of Millenials and their knack for wanting to solve problems caused by Boomers.
Birth years for the millennials are imprecise, but end around the mid 90s. Gen Z are post-millennials. Also I am speaking in generalities as the article was, not saying all millennials are angry. Your rude "uhm no" is unappreciated but I've come to expect this tone from you whenever you respond to me. There's no reason to be a jerk just because you disagree with my opinion.

I obviously disagree that Rey is more a representation of millennials than Gen Z. So I was saying I don't agree with the article on that.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Fri 19 Jan - 18:22

@Acritiqua

Yes, the generational divides are quite murky, and I agree with @Rei of Sunshine in that there is a difference in world attitude between older and younger Millennials. So far I’ve come across three articles that break down the characters by generation and they’ve all referred to the Finn/Rose/Rey/Kylo as Millennials. (One article called TLJ “Millenials Strike Back” Laughing It’s in this thread somewhere.) Poe is Gen X.
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Post by Acritiqua on Fri 19 Jan - 18:24

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@Acritiqua

Yes, the generational divides are quite murky, and I agree with @Rei of Sunshine in that there is a difference in world attitude between older and younger Millennials. So far I’ve come across three articles that break down the characters by generation and they’ve all referred to the Finn/Rose/Rey/Kylo as Millennials. (One article called TLJ “Millenials Strike Back” Laughing It’s in this thread somewhere.) Poe is Gen X.
@Cowgirlsamurai

And I disagree. I think that people are forgetting Gen Z exists. Part of the reason is that it's the latest named generation and is just beginning to enter the work force. There is less information about Gen Z because they are just now growing up.

Gen Z, in other words, is the generation trying to figure out their place in all of this.

(Since Finn is several years older than Rey maybe I would see him at the tale end of the millennials and I didn't look up how old Rose is. Rey is really the character I see as most Gen Z. Both Rose and Finn could be Gen Y. Rose already has her place and established views. Finn is an interesting case because he grew up in a brainwashing machine so he is still having to discover things like Rey is.)
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Fri 19 Jan - 18:37

@Acritiqua wrote:
@Rei of Sunshine wrote:@Acritiqua

Uhm no. Gen Z and Millenials are one and the same generation group. It's only called Gen Z because people still trying to follow the Gen X pattern.

Millenials aren't all like Kylo. What this article has illustrated is that Kylo and Rey are two sides of the Millenial generation. Kylo's side represents Millenial rage and all the nasty angst. Rey's side represents the Idealism and resourcefulness of Millenials and their knack for wanting to solve problems caused by Boomers.
Birth years for the millennials are imprecise, but end around the mid 90s. Gen Z are post-millennials. Also I am speaking in generalities as the article was, not saying all millennials are angry. Your rude "uhm no" is unappreciated but I've come to expect this tone from you whenever you respond to me. There's no reason to be a jerk just because you disagree with my opinion.

I obviously disagree that Rey is more a representation of millennials than Gen Z. So I was saying I don't agree with the article on that.
@Acritiqua

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the Gen Z topic fits here because based on that age group, these Gen Zs you speak of consider themselves Millenials presently. And I think it doesn't really add up to Rey's assessment as a character because she is considered a representation for the Millenials. Both her and Kylo.

Kylo being the angsty nostalgia-obsessed privileged Hipster while Rey represents the side of Millenials that have not been stereotyped and represented in media. Those who are less privileged and don't act upon their legacies or connections to the Boomers.

It's not even a question of what age group she belongs in. It's who she's representing.
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