The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Page 5 of 13 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11, 12, 13  Next

Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 8:17 am

Well, it's currently topping the box office here in the UK, and I saw it a third time at my lovely warm and local art deco cinema, and it was just 9.40 in the morning - and there was a very respectable audience. Frankly, it's a film that needs to be seen several times. And the more I see it, the more I love it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       First of all, I am absolutely convinced Rey's apparent 'failure' to save Kylo/Ben was because her motives were wrong. She saw turning him as a duty to save the galaxy - the greater good yada yada yada. But although she was drawn to him she failed to realise that what he needed was someone to turn him for his sake, and to Censored  with the galaxy. Selfish maybe - but everyone, including his own family, had put everything else before that broken  man. She set out to save the Resistance,not Ben Solo. And in IX, she'll realise that, probably through their bond. Sad                                        Secondly.....the more I watching the 'breaking of the lightsabre' scene, the more I realise that it is practically screaming that  they are both wrong - the Force actually repels them, sending them both flying back away from the sabre before it breaks. And what's interesting is the scene when Rey confronts Kylo when he makes his proposition is oddly the reverse of the Padme/Anakin confrontation in RotS. Anakin is arrogant, demanding and when Padme refuses his offer attacks her. Kylo is gentle, pleading and it's Rey who becomes violent afterwards. The odd thing is the more I watch the end scene the more I sympathise with Kylo - although I understand Rey's concern for her friends I also understand Kylo's bitterness....so many have let him down. And now Rey, who he sacrificed everything for. Rey didn't realise there was no way Kylo could go to the Resistance with her - they'd have probably killed him. He had nothing left but the FO.
avatar
motherofpearl1
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2495
Likes : 10540
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Birdwoman on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 11:16 am

I am going to see it again today. This will be my second viewing of the movie. Everyone I have talked to, that includes my fanboy friends, loved it. My friend's husband thought it was alright, but when she talked to him about my view point of the movie....he agreed this is less adventure more character driven. I read somewhere online a few days ago a tidbit about the gender break down of Star Wars viewers. They stated that the female viewership has grown by 10% in recent years. It seems that the story group has a bunch of women writing star wars stories. I think some of the backlash I am reading about is from men, that don't want to share star wars with women or they don't like the diversity in star wars. They want the 70s back! Smile

Birdwoman
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1039
Likes : 4584
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 11:55 am

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.  

In general, I am not too worried.  ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out.  Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.
@Moonjump05

From what I've seen people generally like the A-plot and dislike the entire rest of the film. And then some - in my German gaming forum a guy was seething about how they missed the ultimate perfect ending in TLJ: Rey and Kylo running off together, "them against the world". For a forum in which after the trailer dropped people believed that Kylo's hand was reaching out for FINN and that it could never be Rey, that's a pretty big developement. Laughing

@Moonjump05 wrote:Bolded is a classic example of fanboy genre confusion and how lost they really are. Like please find me a coming-of-age fairytale where the hero's mentor character doesn't die or leave. How many times has this happened in SW alone? Like four? The ST is even building on a classic trope by removing the older generation completely and forcing the new generation to learn from the failures of the past, move forward and rebuild the galaxy on their own terms. Plus you have the idea that the mentor's death effects not only the heroine as she grows up, but also the villain in the same way. What an incredible, modern twist on an age old story! I guess fanboys think Luke is exempt from serving his role as a coming-of-age mentor because he's Luke Skywalker? Laughing
@MyOnlyHope

I don't think it's Luke's death per se, but how Luke was treated by the movie. Just like Han, Luke was used to prop up Rey and give Kylo more profile. Leia supporting Rey's character is quite obvious too - the random hugging in the end of both TFA and TLJ. But I'm optimistic that these characters can shine all on their own eventually.
avatar
Rimfaxe96
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1088
Likes : 6114
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 21
Localisation : Germany

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Starliteprism on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:21 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Well, it's currently topping the box office here in the UK, and I saw it a third time at my lovely warm and local art deco cinema, and it was just 9.40 in the morning - and there was a very respectable audience. Frankly, it's a film that needs to be seen several times. And the more I see it, the more I love it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       First of all, I am absolutely convinced Rey's apparent 'failure' to save Kylo/Ben was because her motives were wrong. She saw turning him as a duty to save the galaxy - the greater good yada yada yada. But although she was drawn to him she failed to realise that what he needed was someone to turn him for his sake, and to Censored  with the galaxy. Selfish maybe - but everyone, including his own family, had put everything else before that broken  man. She set out to save the Resistance,not Ben Solo. And in IX, she'll realise that, probably through their bond.  Sad                                         Secondly.....the more I watching the 'breaking of the lightsabre' scene, the more I realise that it is practically screaming that  they are both wrong - the Force actually repels them, sending them both flying back away from the sabre before it breaks. And what's interesting is the scene when Rey confronts Kylo when he makes his proposition is oddly the reverse of the Padme/Anakin confrontation in RotS. Anakin is arrogant, demanding and when Padme refuses his offer attacks her. Kylo is gentle, pleading and it's Rey who becomes violent afterwards. The odd thing is the more I watch the end scene the more I sympathise with Kylo - although I understand Rey's concern for her friends I also understand Kylo's bitterness....so many have let him down. And now Rey, who he sacrificed everything for. Rey didn't realise there was no way Kylo could go to the Resistance with her - they'd have probably killed him. He had nothing left but the FO.
@motherofpearl1

I'm in the UK as well, North London and went to Enfield for the IMAX 3D and it wasn't full but you can tell that everyone was happy to be there and comfy chairs, then Odeon on the same day, half filled audience there. I will go for a third time probably next week. How comfy are the chairs in the art deco cinema of yours, although might just see it at Odeon/Cineworld again.
avatar
Starliteprism
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 489
Likes : 1488
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-17
Localisation : United Kingdom

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:27 pm

Pretty good, although a bit small!
avatar
motherofpearl1
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2495
Likes : 10540
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-08

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Starliteprism on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:28 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Pretty good, although a bit small!
@motherofpearl1

Some years back, I went to the Phoenix. Chairs were a bit small and pretty close to your neighbour and interesting/random selection of concession snacks. :-p
avatar
Starliteprism
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 489
Likes : 1488
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-17
Localisation : United Kingdom

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MyOnlyHope on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:35 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:I'll throw this out there...

I wonder if there would have been fewer issues with the film being so divisive if LF hadn't been so secretive about TLJ all along. I get wanting to protect their big twists, but in hindsight, we knew very very little about the plot of the movie going into it. I know that for some of us, it was fun being completely surprised, but perhaps marketing could have done a better job to set the expectations of the traditional fanboys? e.g. They could have started with outright debunking Reywalker...
@ISeeAnIsland
I'm going to have to agree about Reywalker. They should've just let it die with J.J. "Rey's parents aren't in TFA" Abrams. The hilarious "they might be in her world" trash was the worst and most unnecessary bit of damage control I've ever heard. Sure, tons of people still would've clung to "he's not Khan," but I think most would've just let it die. LF keeping it alive until literally the very end was so uncalled for... Of course fanboys who spent two years pouring over red herrings are upset. I still think they should be revisiting TFA and rethinking their two year old headcanons, but I do get some of the anger and agree that being baited sucks.

That said, the denial of Reylo, especially after the trailer dropped, was... something else. Post movie, we can see now just how much LF really was promoting the film they made. With a month to go we started getting almost daily bits of marketing from Asia that were pushing the "resonating" Reylo dynamic as though it was like the only thing in the movie. And that EW article about the "bond between the scavenger and the fallen one"? Lmao that was not subtle at all. Fanboys continued to deny and deny and deny. Then the Visual Dictionary pages dropped and they clung even harder, despite the romantic af sounding "bond spanning across the galaxy to unite Rey and Kylo Ren." Force Bond revelation just made them jump back on Rey Solo and many of them remained there until the very end. I don't think I will ever witness denial to that extent ever again. The good news for fanboys is that there's really nothing to bait them with anymore. Rian treated the mystery box as a non issue and his move is pretty much urging them to have more interesting conversations. Unfortunately they may just create new bait for themselves and continue asking dumb questions such as "where is Lando?" and "who is broom boy?" Rolling Eyes
avatar
MyOnlyHope
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 816
Likes : 8571
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Reynak on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:51 pm

Mark should be the last one to complain because his role in this movie is the only one where he really shines as an actor in Star Wars. He is brillant in TLJ, a reallly deep and nuanced character, nothing to do with the uncomplicated, all too-likable Luke of his younger years. I loved Luke back then, I did, but he was an archetypical hero, now he has depth, he is complex and conflicted, so interesting and so well directed, because his performance is top quality. If I was him I’d be so glad to have had this chance. I can’t believe he is complaining about his best work in SW.


Last edited by Reynak on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
Reynak
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 671
Likes : 4229
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Birdwoman on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:53 pm

I agree about the parentage issue. I also wish they debunked it a few months before the movie came out.

Are these new complaints from Mark? I agree, I loved Luke but he was kind of boring. TLJ, made him interesting to me at least.

Birdwoman
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1039
Likes : 4584
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-28

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Reynak on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:57 pm

@Birdwoman wrote:I agree about the parentage issue. I also wish they debunked it a few months before the movie came out.
@Birdwoman

I agree too. It’s not a good idea to bait people and create unnecessary frustration. I can imagine myself in their shoes.
avatar
Reynak
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 671
Likes : 4229
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:18 pm

IMO, Daisy tried to debunk ReySky. She really did. She insisted over and over and over for two years that Rey's story would not be about looking back, but rather the relationships she's forming now, the family she chooses. Fanboys covered their ears. Nothing mattered. They wanted what they wanted and went on in ignorant confidence. No rug was pulled out from under them. They just couldn't acknowledge the truth.

The funniest thing is all the arguments they made that were meant to apply to Rey now apply to Kylo only. Oops.
avatar
FrolickingFizzgig
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4041
Likes : 35009
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Age : 23
Localisation : Canada

http://frolickingfizzgig.tumblr.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by IoJovi on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:21 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:IMO, Daisy tried to debunk ReySky. She really did. She insisted over and over and over for two years that Rey's story would not be about looking back, but rather the relationships she's forming now, the family she chooses. Fanboys covered their ears. Nothing mattered. They wanted what they wanted and went on in ignorant confidence. No rug was pulled out from under them. They just couldn't acknowledge the truth.

The funniest thing is all the arguments they made that were meant to apply to Rey now apply to Kylo only. Oops.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Not to mention the Pablo Reywalker wreckage week in and week out that lasted two years. Now I’m sure 95% of tht does not reach the GA, but I really can’t find sympathy for those that do follow along.

avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 7191
Likes : 41044
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Moonjump05 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:50 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:IMO, Daisy tried to debunk ReySky. She really did. She insisted over and over and over for two years that Rey's story would not be about looking back, but rather the relationships she's forming now, the family she chooses. Fanboys covered their ears. Nothing mattered. They wanted what they wanted and went on in ignorant confidence. No rug was pulled out from under them. They just couldn't acknowledge the truth.

The funniest thing is all the arguments they made that were meant to apply to Rey now apply to Kylo only. Oops.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Not to mention the Pablo Reywalker wreckage week in and week out that lasted two years. Now I’m sure 95% of tht does not reach the GA, but I really can’t find sympathy for those that do follow along.

@IoJovi

Yeah, JJ/KK/RJ/MH/DR/God could have held a press conference saying "Rey is not Luke, Leia or Han's daughter" and you still would have had people crying misdirection.

avatar
Moonjump05
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 485
Likes : 3649
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ZioRen on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:55 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:IMO, Daisy tried to debunk ReySky. She really did. She insisted over and over and over for two years that Rey's story would not be about looking back, but rather the relationships she's forming now, the family she chooses. Fanboys covered their ears. Nothing mattered. They wanted what they wanted and went on in ignorant confidence. No rug was pulled out from under them. They just couldn't acknowledge the truth.

The funniest thing is all the arguments they made that were meant to apply to Rey now apply to Kylo only. Oops.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Not to mention the Pablo Reywalker wreckage week in and week out that lasted two years.  Now I’m sure 95% of tht does not reach the GA, but I really can’t find sympathy for those that do follow along.

@IoJovi

Yeah, JJ/KK/RJ/MH/DR/God could have held a press conference saying "Rey is not Luke, Leia or Han's daughter"  and you still would have had people crying misdirection.

@Moonjump05

The ST could end with Rey and Kylo making out and I guarantee there would still be people claiming she's secretly a Skywalker. Kenobi and Palpatine will probably carry on past the ST's ending for some people because, why not I guess? Since her parentage doesn't matter within the scheme of the ST, they'll likely never fully debunk that her parents could have been more than nobodies. Unless they decide to do a comic series something or other on them later, which wouldn't shock me.
avatar
ZioRen
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 2570
Likes : 17456
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-27

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MyOnlyHope on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 2:00 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:IMO, Daisy tried to debunk ReySky. She really did. She insisted over and over and over for two years that Rey's story would not be about looking back, but rather the relationships she's forming now, the family she chooses. Fanboys covered their ears. Nothing mattered. They wanted what they wanted and went on in ignorant confidence. No rug was pulled out from under them. They just couldn't acknowledge the truth.

The funniest thing is all the arguments they made that were meant to apply to Rey now apply to Kylo only. Oops.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Not to mention the Pablo Reywalker wreckage week in and week out that lasted two years. Now I’m sure 95% of tht does not reach the GA, but I really can’t find sympathy for those that do follow along.

@IoJovi

Yeah, JJ/KK/RJ/MH/DR/God could have held a press conference saying "Rey is not Luke, Leia or Han's daughter" and you still would have had people crying misdirection.

@Moonjump05
We already have people crying misdirection at the movie itself as far as the whole parentage thing goes, so yeah, you guys are right that nothing could've dampened their expectations.

avatar
MyOnlyHope
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 816
Likes : 8571
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MindAndMagic on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 2:02 pm

I watched it again and I loved it just as much, if not more cause this time I was able to overcome the initial excitement and focus on the plot and characters. Here are some stuff I noticed (perhaps there’s a slim chance we haven’t mentioned all of them) and some feelings this second viewing evoked:

*The most painful scene for me by far as someone who is very attached to Kylo/Ben has to be his very first appearance before Snoke. At first he is with the mask on, Snoke asks about his wound and Ben replies “it’s nothing” with a faltering voice, it’s cracking even through the filter. Then he takes it off and he looks worse than we’ve ever seen him. I’m just now realising how beaten up and broken Kylo looks in this movie compared to TFA. He has dark circles under his eyes, one of them looks like a bruise, I’m certain Snoke has been torturing him physically like he did in this scene as well. This whole scene was just an extremely unnerving, unpleasant example of physical and most of all emotional abuse. He takes off that mask and you see his tender, beaten up face, the face of Ben Solo with his raven hair and soft eyes as Snoke calls him “young Solo”. His talk of the “mighty Skywalker blood” made me so angry, I was screaming internally: “What about HIM as a person? What about this tormented, suffering boy who never had the chance to live a normal life with his family because you wanted his power? I hate you!” Ben’s line “I gave you everything. For the dark side.” just broke me completely. This poor boy never had a chance, he was just see as a powerful tool because of his bloodline, and he is still suffering so much. My heart ached for him. The line “you have too much of your father’s heart in you” relates to Han’s line “there’s too much Vader in him”, they really wanted us to see him as Ben Solo in TLJ, which is why Rey calls him that as well.

*Some of the major themes I think exist overall include:
-Failure is a very obvious one, it’s everywhere (Luke and Ben, Rey saving Ben, Ben himself, the Resistance, the FO). But, as Yoda wisely said, it’s also the greatest teacher and this seemingly bleak middle chapter will lead us to all the personal growth and lessons learned in IX.
-Love and miscommunication: it’s clear the Skywalkers care enormously about one another, they’re like the Uchihas, the problem is they love too much and when they lose something or feel betrayed, all that care turns into destructive energy. Leia, restrained in her grief as she may be (“too many losses, I can’t take any more”) still loves and will always love her son and it’s mutual. Ben couldn’t bring himself to shoot at her ship, but the look on his face when someone else did said it all, at this moment he thought his mother was dead and was even more broken, he realised he truly had no one anymore and was ready to cry. What’s even more tragic is that Leia remained unaware of all this inner torment going on inside of Ben’s mind and heart, and all his care for her. Luke’s care and regret is also blatantly visible, especially during his conversation with Rey when he literally tears up at the painful memory. It was his encounter with Yoda that helped him come to terms with his failure and approach the whole thing from a different perspective. If you look closely he even winks at C3PO before he goes outside to confront Ben at the end, he knows now is not the time for apologies and forgiveness, but he wants to prevent Ben from making a mistake because he cares about him. All this effort is to help both sides and give everyone a chance.
-The dice as symbol of love and hope: I loved that little touch. We fist see it when Luke steps into the Falcon after all this time and is immediately filled with bittersweet memories of what once was. He then gives it to Leia to hold it and finally Ben hold onto it when he kneels down (the “mighty” Supreme Leader, more broken than ever). He holds onto it so tightly as he he never wants to let go even though all he talked about over the course of TLJ was letting go of the past. he still cares about his family deeply.
-The desire to belong: we’ve talked about this at length, it’s all about the bond Rey and Ben develop, which is the emotional essence of the entire plot. It also relates to the theme of reaching out, which occurrs 3 times, once with Luke prompting Rey to feel the Force, then the moment when she connects with Ben in this incredibly intimate scene where they touch hands through the Force, and finally when they’re unable to reach one another literally and metaphorically and she refuses to take his gloved hand (Ben Solo vs. Kylo Ren).

*I have to disagree severely with anyone who claims there is no character development in this movie, IMO it’s much more profound than in TFA or even any SW movie. The most central theme I can identity that runs throughout is letting go of mentors and idealised figures. Luke even says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker”, which I also see as a nod to old-time fans who still see him as the one and only hero of the story. If we look at each character at the start and end of TLJ, this becomes very clear:
-Rey evolves from a hopeful “future Jedi student” (“Master Skywalker?”) who naively thinks the Force is about making stuff float and expects Luke to guide her to a confident young woman who has accepted that even though she way not come from anywhere remarkable, she can find her own place in this story and no longer needs to search for parental figures in others or cling to memories of the past. In a way, she did follow Ben’s advice. There’s also this interesting dichotomy with Rey regarding “personal” vs. “common good”. Luke calls her out on it with his question “Why are YOU here?”, i.e. she is not really there for the Resistance, but to find answers about herself. Same with her desire to save Ben, she conveniently masks it as a desire to save the galaxy, but deep down it’s about saving this intimate relationship she has with this one person that knows her better than anyone else.
-Ben: there is a very sharp contrast b/w his completely broken look to when he starts connecting emotionally with Rey and finally restores his agency and some sense of self. The voiceover during her vision is her telling all of that to him, he has turned into a confidant for her, and when he sees her tears, there are tears in his eyes as well as he says “You’re not alone.” At the very beginning Ben is angry at himself for his weakness, but by the end we can see a new energy flowing through him, it’s Rey’s presence that gave him the necessary strength and motivation to get rid of the “mentor” he hated so much. I’m sure that when Snoke said to Rey “you’ll give me everything”, Ben was reminded of what he had sacrificed and didn’t want the same to happen to someone he had grown to care for. The last straw IMO was when Snoke implied the Force bond was all his doing, you could see it in Ben and Rey’s eyes, they looked unsettled, and in Ben’s case, hurt and angry. He didn’t want it to be a lie and neither did she. I have to say, it was a very natural reaction for Ben to revel in this newly found freedom, after being under someone’s control for so long he desperately wanted to have power over something. He felt a kinship with Rey he never hoped he would find anywhere, wanted her to feel as angry at her past as him, that’s why he was so harsh with her. Ultimately, him and Rey have the same goals, it’s the means of achieving them that they differ on, but they’ll get there. It’s being written at this very moment.
-Finn and Rose: in Finn’s case it was about finding a new meaningful connection beyond his friendship with Rey and growing as a brave fighter and in Rose’s case it was coming at the front of the fight, inspired by her sister and becoming a hero in her own right. Rose’s whole story was really touching and human, KMT’s performance was wonderful and extremely genuine.

The movie is not flawless, certainly, but I think it excels where it counts, i.e. complexity of emotional conflicts and some of the best acting I’ve ever seen in SW, particularly from Adam, Daisy and Mark Hamil. Adam is stunning. The way he is able to portray so many nuances with such expressive gestures, tone of voice, posture, everything, is just astonishing. “This is something else”, as Ben says about the Force bond. Wink


Last edited by MindAndMagic on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 3:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
MindAndMagic
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 465
Likes : 4779
Date d'inscription : 2016-05-22
Age : 24

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by jakkusun on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 3:07 pm

@MindandMagic I like how you said the Skywalkers are like the Uchinas haha. You know Kylo's whole let the past die, become supreme leader, and destroy/rebuild everything really made me think of Sasuke at the end of Shippuden when he wanted kill all the kage, become hokage, and reform the shinobi world. Razz
avatar
jakkusun
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 542
Likes : 2810
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by BB-Rey on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 4:00 pm

After a couple days to digest my thoughts ....

I think I really liked it. I'm not sure if I fully love the movie yet but, I'm thinking that will come with another viewing and really seeing how things come all together in Episode IX. It's really a different take on Star Wars and in that aspect I really love it. The biggest thing that disappointed me I think was some of the dialogue just didn't always feel Star Wars-y like having Finn call DJ a bastard or Poe insulting Hux's mother. These things felt really low and our of place. If you're going to insult someone at least call them a nerf herder or moof milker. I think the handling of Luke was a bit of both good and bad. I enjoyed his arc, especially with Yoda and at the end but, his wink at C-3PO just felt really out of character. Ultimately though really what I loved most of course was the Reylo dynamic, I love Rey and Ren Ben so much! Them teaming up against the guards and their dynamic with Snoke was really cool. (Though, I wonder if Snoke is truly dead.) I think ultimately this was the best part for me even if it was a bit devasting they didn't stay together longer. I also really enjoyed the scenes on Canto Bight, particularly the chase scene with the Fathiers. I found this really fun. Not to mention seeing Carrie and Mark together almost broke me and brought me to tears on Crait. All and all, after my first viewing I think I quite enjoyed it but, it's going take another viewing to really love it.


Last edited by BB-Rey on Sat 23 Dec 2017, 1:02 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
BB-Rey
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan

Messages : 215
Likes : 605
Date d'inscription : 2017-10-15

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by SoloSideCousin on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 4:17 pm

@MindAndMagic wrote:I watched it again and I loved it just as much, if not more cause this time I was able to overcome the initial excitement and focus on the plot and characters. Here are some stuff I noticed (perhaps there’s a slim chance we haven’t mentioned all of them) and some feelings this second viewing evoked:

*The most painful scene for me by far as someone who is very attached to Kylo/Ben has to be his very first appearance before Snoke. At first he is with the mask on, Snoke asks about his wound and Ben replies “it’s nothing” with a faltering voice, it’s cracking even through the filter. Then he takes it off and he looks worse than we’ve ever seen him. I’m just now realising how beaten up and broken Kylo looks in this movie compared to TFA. He has dark circles under his eyes, one of them looks like a bruise, I’m certain Snoke has been torturing him physically like he did in this scene as well. This whole scene was just an extremely unnerving, unpleasant example of physical and most of all emotional abuse. He takes off that mask and you see his tender, beaten up face, the face of Ben Solo with his raven hair and soft eyes as Snoke calls him “young Solo”. His talk of the “mighty Skywalker blood” made me so angry, I was screaming internally: “What about HIM as a person? What about this tormented, suffering boy who never had the chance to live a normal life with his family because you wanted his power? I hate you!” Ben’s line “I gave you everything. For the dark side.” just broke me completely. This poor boy never had a chance, he was just see as a powerful tool because of his bloodline, and he is still suffering so much. My heart ached for him. The line “you have too much of your father’s heart in you” relates to Han’s line “there’s too much Vader in him”, they really wanted us to see him as Ben Solo in TLJ, which is why Rey calls him that as well.

*Some of the major themes I think exist overall include:
-Failure is a very obvious one, it’s everywhere (Luke and Ben, Rey saving Ben, Ben himself, the Resistance, the FO). But, as Yoda wisely said, it’s also the greatest teacher and this seemingly bleak middle chapter will lead us to all the personal growth and lessons learned in IX.
-Love and miscommunication: it’s clear the Skywalkers care enormously about one another, they’re like the Uchihas, the problem is they love too much and when they lose something or feel betrayed, all that care turns into destructive energy. Leia, restrained in her grief as she may be (“too many losses, I can’t take any more”) still loves and will always love her son and it’s mutual. Ben couldn’t bring himself to shoot at her ship, but the look on his face when someone else did said it all, at this moment he thought his mother was dead and was even more broken, he realised he truly had no one anymore and was ready to cry. What’s even more tragic is that Leia remained unaware of all this inner torment going on inside of Ben’s mind and heart, and all his care for her. Luke’s care and regret is also blatantly visible, especially during his conversation with Rey when he literally tears up at the painful memory. It was his encounter with Yoda that helped him come to terms with his failure and approach the whole thing from a different perspective. If you look closely he even winks at C3PO before he goes outside to confront Ben at the end, he knows now is not the time for apologies and forgiveness, but he wants to prevent Ben from making a mistake because he cares about him. All this effort is to help both sides and give everyone a chance.
-The dice as symbol of love and hope: I loved that little touch. We fist see it when Luke steps into the Falcon after all this time and is immediately filled with bittersweet memories of what once was. He then gives it to Leia to hold it and finally Ben hold onto it when he kneels down (the “mighty” Supreme Leader, more broken than ever). He holds onto it so tightly as he he never wants to let go even though all he talked about over the course of TLJ was letting go of the past. he still cares about his family deeply.
-The desire to belong: we’ve talked about this at length, it’s all about the bond Rey and Ben develop, which is the emotional essence of the entire plot. It also relates to the theme of reaching out, which occurrs 3 times, once with Luke prompting Rey to feel the Force, then the moment when she connects with Ben in this incredibly intimate scene where they touch hands through the Force, and finally when they’re unable to reach one another literally and metaphorically and she refuses to take his gloved hand (Ben Solo vs. Kylo Ren).

*I have to disagree severely with anyone who claims there is no character development in this movie, IMO it’s much more profound than in TFA or even any SW movie. The most central theme I can identity that runs throughout is letting go of mentors and idealised figures. Luke even says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker”, which I also see as a nod to old-time fans who still see him as the one and only hero of the story. If we look at each character at the start and end of TLJ, this becomes very clear:
-Rey evolves from a hopeful “future Jedi student” (“Master Skywalker?”) who naively thinks the Force is about making stuff float and expects Luke to guide her to a confident young woman who has accepted that even though she way not come from anywhere remarkable, she can find her own place in this story and no longer needs to search for parental figures in others or cling to memories of the past. In a way, she did follow Ben’s advice. There’s also this interesting dichotomy with Rey regarding “personal” vs. “common good”. Luke calls her out on it with his question “Why are YOU here?”, i.e. she is not really there for the Resistance, but to find answers about herself. Same with her desire to save Ben, she conveniently masks it as a desire to save the galaxy, but deep down it’s about saving this intimate relationship she has with this one person that knows her better than anyone else.
-Ben: there is a very sharp contrast b/w his completely broken look to when he starts connecting emotionally with Rey and finally restores his agency and some sense of self. The voiceover during her vision is her telling all of that to him, he has turned into a confidant for her, and when he sees her tears, there are tears in his eyes as well as he says “You’re not alone.” At the very beginning Ben is angry at himself for his weakness, but by the end we can see a new energy flowing through him, it’s Rey’s presence that gave him the necessary strength and motivation to get rid of the “mentor” he hated so much. I’m sure that when Snoke said to Rey “you’ll give me everything”, Ben was reminded of what he had sacrificed and didn’t want the same to happen to someone he had grown to care for. The last straw IMO was when Snoke implied the Force bond was all his doing, you could see it in Ben and Rey’s eyes, they looked unsettled, and in Ben’s case, hurt and angry. He didn’t want it to be a lie and neither did she. I have to say, it was a very natural reaction for Ben to revel in this newly found freedom, after being under someone’s control for so long he desperately wanted to have power over something. He felt a kinship with Rey he never hoped he would find anywhere, wanted her to feel as angry at her past as him, that’s why he was so harsh with her. Ultimately, him and Rey have the same goals, it’s the means of achieving them that they differ on, but they’ll get there. It’s being written at this very moment.
-Finn and Rose: in Finn’s case it was about finding a new meaningful connection beyond his friendship with Rey and growing as a brave fighter and in Rose’s case it was coming at the front of the fight, inspired by her sister and becoming a hero in her own right. Rose’s whole story was really touching and human, KMT’s performance was wonderful and extremely genuine.

The movie is not flawless, certainly, but I think it excels where it counts, i.e. complexity of emotional conflicts and some of the best acting I’ve ever seen in SW, particularly from Adam, Daisy and Mark Hamil. Adam is stunning. The way he is able to portray so many nuances with such expressive gestures, tone of voice, posture, everything, is just astonishing. “This is something else”, as Ben says about the Force bond. Wink
@MindAndMagic

Fantastic post! I agree with all of this, but in particular the part about how Ben loves his family. A person would not be as destroyed as Ben has become if he was only lukewarm on his family. The tragic thing is that even with Snoke mentally abusing him, he was probably completely crazy about Luke, just like his mother and father. When Luke thought that he should die, that must have nearly killed him, and definitely shattered him. Imagine your hero, the star of your family, a kind of demigod even, thinking that you didn't deserve to live ... that you were *so worthless* and *so wrong* that you needed to be killed in your sleep. How do you process that? Especially when you have a demon in your head and when you probably think that your parents will believe your demigod uncle over you, because no one can question Luke's worth, but they are obviously questioning yours. I don't think you do process that. I think you go kind of crazy and spiral.

One of the biggest things that Luke did was tell Kylo/Ben that he was wrong for what he did. It wasn't pretty by any means, but the demigod was kind of saying, "I was wrong ... You didn't deserve that ... You *are* worth something."
avatar
SoloSideCousin
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 4567
Likes : 21948
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Starliteprism on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

@MindAndMagic wrote:I watched it again and I loved it just as much, if not more cause this time I was able to overcome the initial excitement and focus on the plot and characters. Here are some stuff I noticed (perhaps there’s a slim chance we haven’t mentioned all of them) and some feelings this second viewing evoked:

*The most painful scene for me by far as someone who is very attached to Kylo/Ben has to be his very first appearance before Snoke. At first he is with the mask on, Snoke asks about his wound and Ben replies “it’s nothing” with a faltering voice, it’s cracking even through the filter. Then he takes it off and he looks worse than we’ve ever seen him. I’m just now realising how beaten up and broken Kylo looks in this movie compared to TFA. He has dark circles under his eyes, one of them looks like a bruise, I’m certain Snoke has been torturing him physically like he did in this scene as well. This whole scene was just an extremely unnerving, unpleasant example of physical and most of all emotional abuse. He takes off that mask and you see his tender, beaten up face, the face of Ben Solo with his raven hair and soft eyes as Snoke calls him “young Solo”. His talk of the “mighty Skywalker blood” made me so angry, I was screaming internally: “What about HIM as a person? What about this tormented, suffering boy who never had the chance to live a normal life with his family because you wanted his power? I hate you!” Ben’s line “I gave you everything. For the dark side.” just broke me completely. This poor boy never had a chance, he was just see as a powerful tool because of his bloodline, and he is still suffering so much. My heart ached for him. The line “you have too much of your father’s heart in you” relates to Han’s line “there’s too much Vader in him”, they really wanted us to see him as Ben Solo in TLJ, which is why Rey calls him that as well.

*Some of the major themes I think exist overall include:
-Failure is a very obvious one, it’s everywhere (Luke and Ben, Rey saving Ben, Ben himself, the Resistance, the FO). But, as Yoda wisely said, it’s also the greatest teacher and this seemingly bleak middle chapter will lead us to all the personal growth and lessons learned in IX.
-Love and miscommunication: it’s clear the Skywalkers care enormously about one another, they’re like the Uchihas, the problem is they love too much and when they lose something or feel betrayed, all that care turns into destructive energy. Leia, restrained in her grief as she may be (“too many losses, I can’t take any more”) still loves and will always love her son and it’s mutual. Ben couldn’t bring himself to shoot at her ship, but the look on his face when someone else did said it all, at this moment he thought his mother was dead and was even more broken, he realised he truly had no one anymore and was ready to cry. What’s even more tragic is that Leia remained unaware of all this inner torment going on inside of Ben’s mind and heart, and all his care for her. Luke’s care and regret is also blatantly visible, especially during his conversation with Rey when he literally tears up at the painful memory. It was his encounter with Yoda that helped him come to terms with his failure and approach the whole thing from a different perspective. If you look closely he even winks at C3PO before he goes outside to confront Ben at the end, he knows now is not the time for apologies and forgiveness, but he wants to prevent Ben from making a mistake because he cares about him. All this effort is to help both sides and give everyone a chance.
-The dice as symbol of love and hope: I loved that little touch. We fist see it when Luke steps into the Falcon after all this time and is immediately filled with bittersweet memories of what once was. He then gives it to Leia to hold it and finally Ben hold onto it when he kneels down (the “mighty” Supreme Leader, more broken than ever). He holds onto it so tightly as he he never wants to let go even though all he talked about over the course of TLJ was letting go of the past. he still cares about his family deeply.
-The desire to belong: we’ve talked about this at length, it’s all about the bond Rey and Ben develop, which is the emotional essence of the entire plot. It also relates to the theme of reaching out, which occurrs 3 times, once with Luke prompting Rey to feel the Force, then the moment when she connects with Ben in this incredibly intimate scene where they touch hands through the Force, and finally when they’re unable to reach one another literally and metaphorically and she refuses to take his gloved hand (Ben Solo vs. Kylo Ren).

*I have to disagree severely with anyone who claims there is no character development in this movie, IMO it’s much more profound than in TFA or even any SW movie. The most central theme I can identity that runs throughout is letting go of mentors and idealised figures. Luke even says “You don’t need Luke Skywalker”, which I also see as a nod to old-time fans who still see him as the one and only hero of the story. If we look at each character at the start and end of TLJ, this becomes very clear:
-Rey evolves from a hopeful “future Jedi student” (“Master Skywalker?”) who naively thinks the Force is about making stuff float and expects Luke to guide her to a confident young woman who has accepted that even though she way not come from anywhere remarkable, she can find her own place in this story and no longer needs to search for parental figures in others or cling to memories of the past. In a way, she did follow Ben’s advice. There’s also this interesting dichotomy with Rey regarding “personal” vs. “common good”. Luke calls her out on it with his question “Why are YOU here?”, i.e. she is not really there for the Resistance, but to find answers about herself. Same with her desire to save Ben, she conveniently masks it as a desire to save the galaxy, but deep down it’s about saving this intimate relationship she has with this one person that knows her better than anyone else.
-Ben: there is a very sharp contrast b/w his completely broken look to when he starts connecting emotionally with Rey and finally restores his agency and some sense of self. The voiceover during her vision is her telling all of that to him, he has turned into a confidant for her, and when he sees her tears, there are tears in his eyes as well as he says “You’re not alone.” At the very beginning Ben is angry at himself for his weakness, but by the end we can see a new energy flowing through him, it’s Rey’s presence that gave him the necessary strength and motivation to get rid of the “mentor” he hated so much. I’m sure that when Snoke said to Rey “you’ll give me everything”, Ben was reminded of what he had sacrificed and didn’t want the same to happen to someone he had grown to care for. The last straw IMO was when Snoke implied the Force bond was all his doing, you could see it in Ben and Rey’s eyes, they looked unsettled, and in Ben’s case, hurt and angry. He didn’t want it to be a lie and neither did she. I have to say, it was a very natural reaction for Ben to revel in this newly found freedom, after being under someone’s control for so long he desperately wanted to have power over something. He felt a kinship with Rey he never hoped he would find anywhere, wanted her to feel as angry at her past as him, that’s why he was so harsh with her. Ultimately, him and Rey have the same goals, it’s the means of achieving them that they differ on, but they’ll get there. It’s being written at this very moment.
-Finn and Rose: in Finn’s case it was about finding a new meaningful connection beyond his friendship with Rey and growing as a brave fighter and in Rose’s case it was coming at the front of the fight, inspired by her sister and becoming a hero in her own right. Rose’s whole story was really touching and human, KMT’s performance was wonderful and extremely genuine.

The movie is not flawless, certainly, but I think it excels where it counts, i.e. complexity of emotional conflicts and some of the best acting I’ve ever seen in SW, particularly from Adam, Daisy and Mark Hamil. Adam is stunning. The way he is able to portray so many nuances with such expressive gestures, tone of voice, posture, everything, is just astonishing. “This is something else”, as Ben says about the Force bond. Wink
@MindAndMagic


Excellent viewpoint.
avatar
Starliteprism
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 489
Likes : 1488
Date d'inscription : 2017-11-17
Localisation : United Kingdom

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 5:54 pm

Back from my third viewing, this time in French. It allowed me to catch some little details I had missed. And this time, I noticed the books Rey stole - Rey, you mean girl Razz I haven't much to add but I can confirm that I come to like the movie even more. Actually, when you understand that failure is the most important topic of the movie, things that you thought completely useless become meaningful.
I still think that it is not easy to enter in that story. Something in the editing and the interaction doesn't feel quite right. I really began to "feel" the story once Kylo and Rey had their first Skype call  and not only because of Reylo  but because there are several things I don't like in that first act: Hux vs. Poe dialogue (not funny), Leia Poppins, Rose fangirling Finn and Ahch-To arc not that interesting. Then, the movie becomes more and more powerful until the end.

The most moving scene for me remains Paige's death. I totally love this scene: the way she struggles and then dies brings me tears everytime and believe me peoople it's not easy to make me cry with a movie. And I realized how much the Resistance ship breaking Supremacy in half is so stunning. I love very much Reylo but the problem is that they just sound awful in French. Definitely, I prefer the VO with Adam's voice because his French voice doesn't fit well.

And fun fact, I sat next to a couple. And the girl was commenting the movie like the whole time. And so when there was the first Skype call, I heard her talking to her boyfriend and saying:

"Oh! She must really be Luke's daughter, right? If not, why would she have that connection with Kylo?"

Me (eating my M&MS):


And then she was commenting and commenting the movie until she turned very quiet when...

...you know what scene happened!

She didn't say anything but I could hear her thought as if she was speaking loudly

So confused!

And then no joke during the hand touch scene she dropped this comment, looking at her boyfriend:


Then, she was commenting various things and finally came Poe and Rey's meeting:

"Oh! What a Face "

It was a funny experience
avatar
reylo1992
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 1337
Likes : 5481
Date d'inscription : 2016-07-22

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by BigDeal2187 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:42 pm

Random thought:

So I'm assuming that those bombs weren't actually "dropped" onto the Dreadnaught, right?
In space. Where there's no gravity.
avatar
BigDeal2187
Jedi Youngling
Jedi Youngling

Messages : 128
Likes : 424
Date d'inscription : 2017-03-10
Localisation : Canada

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Moonjump05 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:49 pm

@BigDeal2187 wrote:Random thought:

So I'm assuming that those bombs weren't actually "dropped" onto the Dreadnaught, right?
In space.  Where there's no gravity.
@BigDeal2187

Star Wars physics.  Paige could breathe just fine too.

(there is gravity in space, however they aren't clear of the bombs get "dropped" or are kinda pushed down instead. So either the mass of the dreadnaught was enough to attract the bombs or the bombs were pushed toward the dreadnaught. Although, since Paige is running around on the ship like the bottom is 'down' so to say perhaps the bomber's own artificial gravity is creating the push for the bombs towards the dreadnaught...

Or like I said, Star Wars physics Very Happy )
avatar
Moonjump05
Jedi Knight
Jedi Knight

Messages : 485
Likes : 3649
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-27
Age : 33

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MyOnlyHope on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 7:00 pm

@BigDeal2187 wrote:Random thought:

So I'm assuming that those bombs weren't actually "dropped" onto the Dreadnaught, right?
In space. Where there's no gravity.
@BigDeal2187
True, but we're talking about Star Wars — pure fantasy and fairy tale, not science fiction despite what a lot of fanboys believe. Razz Suspension of disbelief comes with the territory. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There wouldn't be fire in space either if we were talking about our own world, but explosions have been a part of SW since the original. These stories are set in a fantasy world full of wizards, magic, chosen ones and funny creatures (no different from Middle Earth), not a scientifically accurate one.
avatar
MyOnlyHope
Jedi Master
Jedi Master

Messages : 816
Likes : 8571
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-26

Back to top Go down

Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by IoJovi on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 7:02 pm

@MyOnlyHope wrote:
@BigDeal2187 wrote:Random thought:

So I'm assuming that those bombs weren't actually "dropped" onto the Dreadnaught, right?
In space. Where there's no gravity.
@BigDeal2187
True, but we're talking about Star Wars — pure fantasy and fairy tale, not science fiction despite what a lot of fanboys believe. Razz Suspension of disbelief comes with the territory. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ There wouldn't be fire in space either if we were talking about our own world, but explosions have been a part of SW since the original. These stories are set in a fantasy world full of wizards, magic, chosen ones and funny creatures (no different from Middle Earth), not a scientifically accurate one.
@MyOnlyHope

True that. Leia Poppins, as hokey as it is, doesn’t even bother me that much. We’re talking about a world where some people can lift objects with their mind. I’m good with all of it...

avatar
IoJovi
Force Ghost
Force Ghost

Messages : 7191
Likes : 41044
Date d'inscription : 2016-03-25
Age : 101
Localisation : Atlanta, GA

Back to top Go down

Page 5 of 13 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 11, 12, 13  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum