The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by IoJovi on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:06 pm

@ZioRen wrote:I also think that it was easier for Rey, after seeing that vision, to turn her feelings into a tool instead. Like "Oh, I can bring him back to the light and that'll be how we win the war!" The underlier is: "I feel a connection with Ben and want him back" but, still in denial, she layers it under "This is the key to winning the war." There's definitely an element of that even in that elevator scene. Something about that moment seemed sort of calculated, especially when after Kylo turned around on her with his version of the vision, she stepped away and backed down and looked disappointed like "Oh, well that didn't work. Darn." 

They're both still muddling true feelings with their own ambitions, and that's why it falls apart. I get why people have a kneejerk "no" reaction to the idea of them 'sharing the blame', because they're thinking in terms of "But Rey is in the right and Kylo is still in murder mode and was mean". And that's not incorrect in the least, but it doesn't change the fact that the fallout between them falls on them both. Basic cause and effect in storytelling still applies even if you argue that "she's not responsible for his bad behavior, etc etc". The simple fact is that both of them not expressing themselves correctly and refusing to budge resulted in everything that went down on Crait. The split lightsaber probably symbolizes that, among other things.
@ZioRen

Literally, all of this.   I love you

Both their feelings are jumbled and messy which makes it that much more fun to watch them try to sort it out (and fail.)
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:07 pm

@ZioRen: yes, they both share the "blame" - both wanted the other on their side for selfish reasons. And they both dealt with the disappointment in the wrong way. Rey by running away from unpleasant business and Kylo...well being Kylo Rolling Eyes
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:17 pm

I think that the very core of the problem in the Throne Room is misunderstanding.

From Kylo's side:

Is it unreasonable to think that this girl who would have traveled the entire galaxy after they touched hands did it for him - and for him alone ? Given the way she is invading his private space speaking to him so softy? Given the way she is speaking to Snoke about him? Given she is literally throwing herself into the lion's mouth? Of course, he hopes that it is for him because this is how Ben Solo works. He goes where his heart is. He may feel closer to the FO when it comes to ideals but I think that he primarily goes where he feels the most accepted. And Snoke embodied that person who at some point of his life was the only one willing to accept him. But Snoke nearly rejected him at the beginning of the movie and meanwhile he feels drawn to this lonely girl he shares so many common points. So I think that when he sees what she is ready to do for him, he finally chooses her over Snoke. And since he thinks she did that all for him, he thinks that hiw way to help her in return is to make sure that that girl won't be alone anymore, because he knows the terrible truth of her parentage and that she didn't really find a family in the Resistance. Of course, he is selfish: he wants her for him alone. But I think that deep inside he also knows that she will is more alone than ever and that the Resistance can't fill that gap.So he takes his chance...and finds out that even if she feels so alone and probably "loves" him, she is not willing to cross the line. And I think that in his mind, something breaks: he did commit a betrayal all for her and he realizes that she is not ready to commit the same kind of betrayal all for him. And he maybe realizes that Snoke might have been right: that the connection was a lie, that she actually came to use him as a tool for the Resistance.

From Rey's side

Is it unreasonable to think that her vision wouldn't come true since she saw it? Of course not. And is it unreasonable to think that it is going to be true since Kylo indeed didn't bow in front of Snoke ? So of course, she is disillusioned when she realizes that the vision doesn't go exactly like she expected. And since Snoke said he is the one who created the connection, she problably thinks the same as Kylo: that this connection was a lie, that this vision will never come true. So she sees Kylo as an ennemy again although it is actually a deep misunderstanding between them. Rey may not be deeply rooted with the Resistance, the novelization already made clear that she has never approved the FO. And is it unreasonable to want to save the Resistance and her friends from the FO attack? So of course, she can't cross the line to betray the Resistance and her friends for Kylo the same he was ready to kill Snoke for her. And she is right not to do it.

Now from my side, I tend to relate more to Kylo because even if Rey was right to turn down his offer, I consider she has a big responsibility in creating the fiasco that happened in the last act of the movie. Had she been just a little less impulsive and thought of the consequences of her actions for 5 minutes, she would have seen that both going to Supremacy and later calling to the saber by surprise were the very last things to do if she wanted to bring Ben Solo to the light side and to the Resistance.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:36 pm

@reylo1992: you are great in empathizing with Kylo/Rey Thumbs up

You remember month ago when we theorized about how Kylo was shown in marketing - with sad puppy eyes in some pictures and fierce, determined angry in others??? Although it wasn't Snoke taking over his body- you were right. Great observation! I just shrugged it of as marketing but you had rightfully a bad feeling about it...
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Rimfaxe96 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 3:51 pm

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots... and the great Tomatometer is no excuse either; as if any sane critic would risk their job gossiping about the biggest franchise in the entire world, bought up and protected by almighty Disney who are still on a conquest run for all other big leftover production companies and studios in Hollywood.

After a few days my contentment with TLJ has also shifted. A few days ago I used TLJ as an excuse to go on a secret Christmas shopping spree - I still had the opportunity to see it, but decided not to because I honestly dreaded being stuck with this movie for 3 hours for at best 30 minutes of scenes I really liked.

- Never thought I'd say it but even my euphoria about Reylo has dampened a little. Not just because of Rey's "Damn, he's not gonna turn - time to point a lightsaber at him", but also because of Kylo's decision. On one hand in Claudia Grey's book it's said that he'd have no interest in power and fancy titles - and now he's grasping as much power as he can at the first opportunity. It's weird story-wise as well - what if Rey had said yes and stayed? Who could Kylo have blamed Snoke's death on? The guards who served him loyally for years? Unless Kylo mindtricked every single member of the FO they would have been caught and killed as traitor and enemy. Really wish they'd both just run off, the Resistance could have helped itself in their tunnel labyrinth - I doubt there was only ONE exit. Could have let Chewie save them alone instead of trying to develope Reylo only to bring them back to square 1 in the end. (Also, wasn't Ren suppoesd to finish his training with Snoke? Guess that part was forgotten about and is now obviously not gonna happen anymore.)

- I don't see any remarkable villains left in this trilogy. Hux? He's been pushed and pulled around with the force and been the victim of too many jokes in TLJ to take him seriously. Kennedy on the other hand was amazing, reminded me a lot of Lazarevic from Uncharted 2 in appearance and spirit. Doubt he'll show up on screen ever again though, just like Mitaka (would have been nice seeing him scared to death when Ren exits the elevator after smashing his mask, hehe). Sad

After TFA we had all these loose ends that could lead up to anything - and now it feels like there's nothing left at all. I'm not looking forward to any story continuation, even Renperor feels at best forced and weird to me. And Rey? She has no purpose at all anymore. She has the Jedi texts now - but what is she gonna do with them? Her skill levels with the force and the lightsaber already match those of a master, and Yoda himself says that she doesn't need them. BB-8 has been reduced to a plot device too (Captured? Let the droid deal with those guards! - The ship is burning down around you? - Don't worry, the droid can't handle ships, but he can handle battle machinery and is coming to save you!). Finn and Rose and Poe will be shoved into another little B-plot mission. Aaaand of course, the light side will be victorious once again in the end. Hooray.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 4:25 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:@reylo1992: you are great in empathizing with Kylo/Rey Thumbs up

You remember month ago when we theorized about how Kylo was shown in marketing - with sad puppy eyes in some pictures and fierce, determined angry in others??? Although it wasn't Snoke taking over his body- you were right. Great observation! I just shrugged it of as marketing but you had rightfully a bad feeling about it...
@Night Huntress

Thanks Smile Well, I try to do my best to understand both sides Wink

Yes, I remember about these speculation. Although I came out from the theaters kinda disappointed after my first viewing (let's face it: it was partly because I  was a pissed my headcanon didn't become true) , I realize now how much Rian gave me a big lesson about fan theories. I think that very much like TLJ Rey, I tended to see Kylo only as a Prince(ss) in distress, thinking that Snoke should be the only problem to erase in order to make things rights again.  

I was persuaded that there was no way Rian could make the audience both emphasize with Kylo and approve Reylo if Kylo would rise as darkness on his own will. How wrong I was and how glad I am now that I was wrong about that! What Rian gave us was the most unexpected scenario for me and that makes the Reylo dynamic so much more complex, interesting and unpredictable.

It shows that redemption is a slow process and that a person must truly want to go through that painful path in order to earn it. That makes Kylo so much more relatable than if he had ended up sort of possessed by Snoke, making him a full victim with no control over his life. Now that he will have full control over his life and nobody to be accountable for, it will be even more interesting to see his struggles and his evolution. So after my second viewing, I came out from the theaters wanting redeemed Kylo more than ever despite his loss of control in the end.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by reylo1992 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 4:40 pm

Btw, a good meta about Rey leaving Kylo on Supremacy. She didn't make things all wrong Wink

Okay, Rey could have killed Ben after the Supremacy split. She could have killed the most powerful dark side user currently known in the galaxy who was unconscious in that moment. She could have killed the knew leader of the First Order and ended the war. She could have even hog tied him and brought him into custody to the resistance. But she didn’t. Why? Because she’s giving him a second chance. She’s still fighting for him. BUT, she realizes now Ben’s redemption isn’t going to be something she can trick him into doing, it’s not a choice she can make for him. It has to be something he decides on his own, a path he chooses on his own accord.

So what does she do? She leaves him to make the choice on his own, she closes the Millennium Falcon door on him with the look of disappointment because it has to be Ben’s choice to do the right thing and give up the darkness. By leaving him, she’s really fighting for him. She cares for Ben Solo, but she can’t force him to give up Kylo Ren. He has to choose to give that up on his own.

And honestly, to have the kind of strength to let go of somebody you care about about so they can choose a better life – even if it’s without you. Like how freaking beautiful is that? And when he does decide to give up the Kylo Ren persona she’ll be waiting for him. But I think she understands that sometimes the silence speaks more powerfully than any arguments she can throw at him, and that’s why she leaves. Because if she really didn’t care for him, if she really didn’t want to see him come home, she could have just ended him right then and there. She could have captured him and put him in prison, but instead she left him with his freedom so he could BE free to make the right choice.

Source: https://mylovelyreylo.tumblr.com/post/168798882371/she-could-have-killed-him-but-instead
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

right after the first viewing I was so angry, I wanted to kill of Kylo myself Twisted Evil - I was sure: no way he can come back from that! No

After processing and thinking things through I was torn- 50/50 that he can be redeemed.

Seeing it the second time his "kill them all" Renperor tantrum wasn't that bad- You see how broken he is... lost.
After he screams to shoot Luke, he is a emotional wrack.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Reynak on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 5:03 pm

I have just watched the movie for the second time and enjoyed it much more, even the Resistance part. I still don’t like Poe much but I liked Finn and Rose’s adventure much more.

My childeren both liked the movie very much and the girl prefers it to TFA but she doesn’t get Reylo much although she says she suspected for the first time that it might be coming when she saw the bridal carry and then in TLJ when they touched each other’s hands but then she left him. I told her he had disappointed her, that’s why she left him.

She also suggested Rey could have something with Poe but just to suggets someone. She doesn’t like Poe, she says he’s very typical, very predictable. She says that maybe Rey liked Finn but she saw Finn and Rose were very close.

It’s a movie you have to see more than once. Perhaps the problem is that it’s so different from TFA and doesn’t give shocking answers to the mystery boxes JJ proposed. That’s quite frustrating. When creating anticipation you have to make sure it pays off. Rey’s parentage, for isntance, fell flat after setting it up as if it was so important. These two movies are too different.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by vaderito on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 5:45 pm

@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 5:53 pm

@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by rey09 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 5:55 pm

I rewatched the movie yesterday with my close friends, they really enjoyed it! Also I realized that my fave characters in TLJ ranked are 1. Kylo and 2. BB8  3. Hux 4. Rey LOL. BB8 was such a bad***!! Hux was hilarious.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Moonjump05 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 6:19 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.

In general, I am not too worried. ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out. Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 6:24 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.

In general, I am not too worried. ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out. Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.
@Moonjump05
I absolutely love the film and nothing is going to change that. I don't get the fixation on fan opinions anyway. We're talking about the same people who thought Kylo "master manipulator" lured Han onto the catwalk and bitched for two years about how Kylo was an emo wuss who got his a** kicked by Mary Sue Rey.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Moonjump05 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 6:36 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.

In general, I am not too worried. ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out. Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.
@Moonjump05
I absolutely love the film and nothing is going to change that. I don't get the fixation on fan opinions anyway. We're talking about the same people who thought Kylo "master manipulator" lured Han onto the catwalk and bitched for two years about how Kylo was an emo wuss who got his a** kicked by Mary Sue Rey.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Lol, true true. These fans have been barking up the wrong force tree for two years and just had the rug pulled out from under them. They are reacting badly. (giving me Naruto flashbacks with that petition)

Tbh, so many of these "reviews" just sound... So dumb? Like, I try not to be so dismissive, but when someone complains about Snoke I roll my eyes because they don't get it. Or Luke dying because the story isn't about him. These aren't inconsistent plots, they are just not the fanboy expectation and so are getting demonized.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by snufkin on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 6:37 pm

I just realized something else from my 2nd viewing. When Hux finds the burning ruins of the Throne Room and Kylo comes to before he can shoot him, there's a line about how Rey stole Snoke's shuttle and got the heck out of there. Which brings to mind SKB when Kylo is chasing around after her and has his panic when he realizes that she's probably going to steal a ship to escape. Which she did this time around.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Moonjump05 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 6:45 pm

@snufkin wrote:I just realized something else from my 2nd viewing. When Hux finds the burning ruins of the Throne Room and Kylo comes to before he can shoot him, there's a line about how Rey stole Snoke's shuttle and got the heck out of there. Which brings to mind SKB when Kylo is chasing around after her and has his panic when he realizes that she's probably going to steal a ship to escape. Which she did this time around.
@snufkin

I wonder what she did with the ship, since she ends up on the MF.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 7:10 pm

@Moonjump05 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Moonjump05 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@vaderito wrote:@Rimfaxe96

54% audience score rating on Rotten Tomatoes and still falling strongly (yesterday it was 55%) - I find it hard to believe that all those 133000+ ratings are done by bots..

They are real. Studio may try to spin it as that it's bots but boxoffice is falling too, though part of the problem is that holidays fall on unfavorable days. But based on feedback from RL that I'm receiving, people thought that tone was off, jokes lame, 80% of the movie pointless ("nothing ever happens"), too many pointless characters, languid pacing. They loved the fight with the Guards, enjoyed Rey, Kylo and Luke scenes, didn't care for the rest cause they thought it was pure filler. pretty much what negative reviews that aren't about destroyed headcanons or feminism are saying.

IMO, people don't like it that much. It's a movie that's made more for critics sensibilities than broader audience (relatively speaking cause any movie passing 1 billion worldwide and opening with over 200M is clearly for broader audience).
@vaderito
This hasn't been my experience at all. Everybody I've talked to loved it.

Saying this RT audience score is "real" is like saying 85% or whatever Justice League/Suicice Squad have are "real". Audience scores are going to be massively skewed no matter what for a film like this. They always illicit strong reactions, be that positive or negative, and the negativity is always louder.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have to agree with Fizz, anyone I have talked to who has seen it at least likes it (the Resistance filler does come up, but no one is saying it ruined the film) and those audience scores are so disparate- you either get 1/2 or 4 stars- so the average has been skewed because the range is so large.  

In general, I am not too worried.  ESB's reception was much more mixed before you had RotJ to balance the ending out.  Now it consistently tops best SW movie lists.
@Moonjump05
I absolutely love the film and nothing is going to change that. I don't get the fixation on fan opinions anyway. We're talking about the same people who thought Kylo "master manipulator" lured Han onto the catwalk and bitched for two years about how Kylo was an emo wuss who got his a** kicked by Mary Sue Rey.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Lol, true true.  These fans have been barking up the wrong force tree for two years and just had the rug pulled out from under them.  They are reacting badly.  (giving me Naruto flashbacks with that petition)

Tbh, so many of these "reviews" just sound... So dumb?  Like, I try not to be so dismissive, but when someone complains about Snoke I roll my eyes because they don't get it.  Or Luke dying because the story isn't about him. These aren't inconsistent plots, they are just not the fanboy expectation and so are getting demonized.
@Moonjump05
Bolded is a classic example of fanboy genre confusion and how lost they really are. Like please find me a coming-of-age fairytale where the hero's mentor character doesn't die or leave. How many times has this happened in SW alone? Like four? The ST is even building on a classic trope by removing the older generation completely and forcing the new generation to learn from the failures of the past, move forward and rebuild the galaxy on their own terms. Plus you have the idea that the mentor's death effects not only the heroine as she grows up, but also the villain in the same way. What an incredible, modern twist on an age old story! I guess fanboys think Luke is exempt from serving his role as a coming-of-age mentor because he's Luke Skywalker? Laughing
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:06 pm

@rey09 wrote:I rewatched the movie yesterday with my close friends, they really enjoyed it! Also I realized that my fave characters in TLJ ranked are 1. Kylo and 2. BB8  3. Hux 4. Rey LOL. BB8 was such a bad***!! Hux was hilarious.
@rey09

Similar. My favorite in TLJ were 1. Kylo, 2. Hux, 3. Rey, 4. The caretakers lol
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by snufkin on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:10 pm

@Moonjump05 - We'll never know, just like how Poe managed to survive the crash on Jakku and get back to the Resistance is never shown. But I LOL'd because she did it to him again, just like SKB.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:24 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Moonjump05 - We'll never know, just like how Poe managed to survive the crash on Jakku and get back to the Resistance is never shown. But I LOL'd because she did it to him again, just like SKB.
@snufkin

In the novelization, Poe literally gets picked up by a Jakku resident who takes him to somewhere that he can get a transport. I distinctly remember the Jakku person telling Poe, "I'd like to scavenge you."
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by Rei of Sunshine on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:45 pm

My beef with this whole "audience doesn't like TLJ" is that it was practically spurned by Mark Hamill.

He basically gave them permission to dislike the movie. most, if not all, of those who probably rated TLJ a low score are likely Luke fans who took to Mark's words that he did not like how Luke was written.

Honestly, I like the guy, but everytime I encounter an interview of him talking about how 'this is not my Luke Skywalker' I get annoyed. Because it's as if Mark also doesn't get the point why or how Luke got to that state. It's not his story anymore. It's Rey's and Kylo's. and all this sourgraping and backtracking is confusing fans. Heck, Carrie complained too, but the way she does it, she doesn't undersell Star Wars. She shows that her problems lies with real world problems, such as portrayal of women, or better characterization for women, or opportunities for actresses. Meanwhile, Mark's problems all feel self centered about Luke. "Luke wouldn't do this do that." He's pretty much like Luke who loves to complain.

If Mark refrained from complaining so much, fanboys would be less critical and biased on their opinions.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by snufkin on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:54 pm

@ISeeAnIsland It sounded like Poe's escape was in the original draft and got cut. But gosh, "I'll scavenge you"?! I have a hard time seeing how he's going to lead the Resistance without HR getting involved because apparently, he seems to flirt or give off sparks with every sentient being in the vicinity.

The bit with Rey fleeing once again while Ben is on the ground in a post-coital haze, those kids are two for two and she's clearly the one with the commitment issues. I think if he'd managed to overpower her when she tried to grab the saber, he would've kept her there with him a la "you're my guest."
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 8:57 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:My beef with this whole "audience doesn't like TLJ" is that it was practically spurned by Mark Hamill.

He basically gave them permission to dislike the movie. most, if not all, of those who probably rated TLJ a low score are likely Luke fans who took to Mark's words that he did not like how Luke was written.

Honestly, I like the guy, but everytime I encounter an interview of him talking about how 'this is not my Luke Skywalker' I get annoyed. Because it's as if Mark also doesn't get the point why or how Luke got to that state. It's not his story anymore. It's Rey's and Kylo's. and all this sourgraping and backtracking is confusing fans. Heck, Carrie complained too, but the way she does it, she doesn't undersell Star Wars. She shows that her problems lies with real world problems, such as portrayal of women, or better characterization for women, or opportunities for actresses. Meanwhile, Mark's problems all feel self centered about Luke. "Luke wouldn't do this do that." He's pretty much like Luke who loves to complain.

If Mark refrained from complaining so much, fanboys would be less critical and biased on their opinions.
@Rei of Sunshine

I do think that Mark didn't help with the divisiveness at all. And the few people I know who were lukewarm (no pun intended) on the movie were big Luke fans.
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Re: The Last Jedi: Our Reviews and Reactions

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 9:12 pm

@Rei of Sunshine wrote:My beef with this whole "audience doesn't like TLJ" is that it was practically spurned by Mark Hamill.

He basically gave them permission to dislike the movie. most, if not all, of those who probably rated TLJ a low score are likely Luke fans who took to Mark's words that he did not like how Luke was written.

Honestly, I like the guy, but everytime I encounter an interview of him talking about how 'this is not my Luke Skywalker' I get annoyed. Because it's as if Mark also doesn't get the point why or how Luke got to that state. It's not his story anymore. It's Rey's and Kylo's. and all this sourgraping and backtracking is confusing fans. Heck, Carrie complained too, but the way she does it, she doesn't undersell Star Wars. She shows that her problems lies with real world problems, such as portrayal of women, or better characterization for women, or opportunities for actresses. Meanwhile, Mark's problems all feel self centered about Luke. "Luke wouldn't do this do that." He's pretty much like Luke who loves to complain.

If Mark refrained from complaining so much, fanboys would be less critical and biased on their opinions.
@Rei of Sunshine
Someone on another forum made an astute observation that made me laugh. Mark suffered from what they called PPD (post-protagonist disorder) going into TLJ. That said, a lot of his statements have been taken out of context or blown out of proportion. It's all word-of-mouth and that's never a good thing. Like, at all.
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