Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

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Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by DeeBee on Thu 21 Dec - 2:39

Anyone rethinking any of TFA content?

I'm wondering about that wonderful moment where Kylo reacts to Rey having called the Legacy saber to her. [this moment is what hooked me back into SW again!]
He mouths 'It's you' - in the novelisation he says this.. and he seems amazed and to recognise something..

I figured he had seen a vison of some kind and a piece of his puzzle just fell into place..
But having seen TLJ - I am now wondering if that moment is him realising what Snoke had told him had come to pass.

In TLJ Snoke explains when he first meets Rey: Darkness rises… and Light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise.
Skywalker?! Haa haaaa…. I assumed! Wrongly.


Snoke would have been wrongly telling Kylo that the light that would rise and match his darkness was Luke Skywalker - in this moment in TFA, I am thinking Kylo realises it's actually Rey.

I don't think it discounts his having had force visions, or just sensed something about her.. but it is an explanation for what he was sensing..


One last little TFA/TLJ observation..
When Kylo is on Crait yelling orders of 'More! More!!!!!!' did anyone else think of the starkiller lightsaber battle and Kylo's 'Harder! Harder!'?! tee hee..
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by MeadowofAshes on Thu 21 Dec - 2:54

@DeeBee I definitely did think of "Harder!" from TFA. There's a raw sexuality to his lines when he's pissed off/in full battle mode.

Ben's saber was NOT the legacy saber so that's a Bingo box unchecked.

Ya know... the interrogation scene now rings of "that's probably the same sith Snoke has said to him" and it's a lot creepier now given the whole "Ol' man Snoke's boudoir" plus Snoke's "You will give me everything" line. Like, effing yuck to the max.

It's becoming very clear the subtext of this trilogy is about an abused boy who was failed by his family learning to move beyond his past abuse and into a healthy relationship with another adult, and it's really beautiful they're doing that but it's also all kinds of disturbing when TFA initially wasn't for me. I'm glad they're doing it - I think it's important and needs to be done. But at the same time I'd also like to keep my fiction my escapism, and it's just not going to be that.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by DeeBee on Thu 21 Dec - 3:02

rofl @MeadowofAshes I love it. yeah I remember DJ's boudoir line and thinking - err yeah I could have done without that image thank you very much! Wink
'You will give me everything'?! was that when he as stroking her cheek? ewwww..

'more! more!' you just know fandom is going to have fun with that one Wink

I agree TFA was so introductory - maybe looking back we could cut out big sections and it would still make sense in the overall trilogy!
Yes it will be interesting to see if they touch further on Ben's toxic relationship with Snoke!
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Forsythia on Thu 21 Dec - 16:42

@DeeBee wrote:One last little TFA/TLJ observation..
When Kylo is on Crait yelling orders of 'More! More!!!!!!' did anyone else think of the starkiller lightsaber battle and Kylo's 'Harder! Harder!'?! tee hee..
@DeeBee
Wasn't that just in the TFA lego game? But yes, when Kylo yelled "More! More!", my mind immediately went in a dirty direction Very Happy
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by IoJovi on Thu 21 Dec - 17:08

After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 21 Dec - 17:10

@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by IoJovi on Thu 21 Dec - 17:12

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened


Yes yes yes! Right as they are discussing the saber and Maz’s surprise that it called to her!

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Socialnole on Thu 21 Dec - 17:14

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened

I think that line for sure now means Ben. Because in TLJ Luke technically didn’t “come back”
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by IoJovi on Thu 21 Dec - 17:19

@Socialnole wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened

I think that line for sure now means Ben. Because in TLJ Luke technically didn’t “come back”
@Socialnole

NICE. FREAKING. CATCH!!!!!

cheers cheers cheers

The rest of the line is “with your help.” Rey may have given Luke a slight nudge to come back in the last scene, keeping Kylo and the FO separated from the Resistance, but it can be argued she actually caused the entire melee in the first place by not meeting Ben half way during the “break up” scene. So that can’t be Luke who’s being referred to in Maz’s speech.

It’s Ben Solo. Full stop.

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 21 Dec - 17:25

@IoJovi wrote:
@Socialnole wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened

I think that line for sure now means Ben. Because in TLJ Luke technically didn’t “come back”
@Socialnole

NICE. FREAKING. CATCH!!!!!

cheers cheers cheers

The rest of the line is “with your help.” Rey may have given Luke a slight nudge to come back in the last scene, keeping Kylo and the FO separated from the Resistance, but it can be argued she actually caused the entire melee in the first place by not meeting Ben half way during the “break up” scene. So that can’t be Luke who’s being referred to in Maz’s speech.

It’s Ben Solo. Full stop.

@IoJovi

Yeah. Luke reacted to R2 and Yoda to "come back". Not to Rey.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 21 Dec - 19:17

@IoJovi wrote:
@Socialnole wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened

I think that line for sure now means Ben. Because in TLJ Luke technically didn’t “come back”
@Socialnole

NICE. FREAKING. CATCH!!!!!

cheers cheers cheers

The rest of the line is “with your help.” Rey may have given Luke a slight nudge to come back in the last scene, keeping Kylo and the FO separated from the Resistance, but it can be argued she actually caused the entire melee in the first place by not meeting Ben half way during the “break up” scene. So that can’t be Luke who’s being referred to in Maz’s speech.

It’s Ben Solo. Full stop.

@IoJovi

I have never been able to hear it, but I know that there are people on our forum who swear that you can hear a whisper say, "It's Ben!" after Rey says "Luke" in response to the "there's someone who still could" speech.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 21 Dec - 20:10

We can analyze the Forceback and Maz's guidance more in depth now that Rian's burned up the mystery box. It's all about Rey's intertwined destiny with Kylo and the Skywalker legacy as represented through the symbol of that legacy, the saber. Originally, tracing the history of the saber was something explored in TFA. After falling to the dark side, Kylo became interested in hunting down relics of his grandfather's life. He and his knights stole the saber from some kind of clan and Maz stole it from him. There's an old shot list that describes how Maz took the saber from Kylo and the KOR around a campfire. In her Forceback, Rey experiences her bond with the black clad knight she doesn't yet understand.

The belonging Rey seeks and the one who could still come back always referred to Ben Solo. Luke never really came back in the end, and now he never can. He wasn't meant to return, just realize himself that even though he failed his nephew and can't help him, nobody's ever really gone and there's someone who still could. Kylo and Rey are the story. We can say that for sure now. Rey ends TLJ holding the broken legacy in her hands. As others have said, she's the only one who still wants it. Even considering how she wound up with both pieces is interesting. We didn't see it, but she was given the opportunity to end the war by killing the sleeping boy just like Luke was. And she chose not to, collecting the two pieces of the broken saber instead.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Saracene on Thu 21 Dec - 20:47

Looking back at TFA, the theme of growing up is really obvious just by the way Rey and Kylo are presented in both films. Kylo still looks young in TLJ, but he's *really* young in TFA; his costume is designed to make him look as gangly and adolescent as possible and his slouchy posture in TFA is no longer in TLJ. Rey is coded as so much more childlike, with her doll and her playing with the helmet in her introduction.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 21 Dec - 20:53

I remember telling the upset Annes that above all else Star Wars is a coming-of-age. They cried that it was a space opera only. Lol.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by DeeBee on Fri 22 Dec - 0:48

@IoJovi I love your description of how the legacy saber represents Ben Solo! Beautifully put. Maybe it is also a wider representation of the Skywalker family legacy? (which includes Ben?) I think it can work in a specific and a broader meaning..

@Darth_Awakened – great catch regarding Maz’s words to Rey about belonging. Wow!!!

@Socialnole – yeah that 'come back' reference was one I scratched my head over and put in the 'hopefully it will become clear in time' basket


Last edited by DeeBee on Fri 22 Dec - 0:49; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : comments were cut off :()
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by DeeBee on Fri 22 Dec - 0:51

here's the second half of my comments.. maybe mods can combine? [apologies I try to multi reply in one comment to avoid double comments but it keeps getting cut off]

@IoJovi – again – great catch with Maz's next line ‘with your help’ – that is awesome!!!
It gives me chills when I think about what Rey whispered to Ben in the elevator in TLJ
Rey: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart. Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it.


Last edited by DeeBee on Fri 22 Dec - 0:57; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : My comments keep getting cut off and I'm trying to reply to everyone. so sorry! don't know what to do...)
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by IoJovi on Fri 22 Dec - 0:52

@DeeBee wrote:@IoJovi I love your description of how the legacy saber represents Ben Solo! Beautifully put. Maybe it is also a wider representation of the Skywalker family legacy? (which includes Ben?) I think it can work in a specific and a broader meaning..

@Darth_Awakened – great catch regarding Maz’s words to Rey about belonging. Wow!!!

@Socialnole – yeah that 'come back' reference was one I scratched my head over and put in the 'hopefully it will become clear in time' basket
@DeeBee

This is probably my favorite thread at the moment.  Some of the stuff in TFA is truly taking on a whole new meaning, and it’s so much fun to revisit it. I thought I had picked that filmed apart to the point there were no bread crumbs left, but clearly I was wrong...
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by DeeBee on Fri 22 Dec - 0:56

@IoJovi wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:@IoJovi I love your description of how the legacy saber represents Ben Solo! Beautifully put. Maybe it is also a wider representation of the Skywalker family legacy? (which includes Ben?) I think it can work in a specific and a broader meaning..

@Darth_Awakened – great catch regarding Maz’s words to Rey about belonging. Wow!!!

@Socialnole – yeah that 'come back' reference was one I scratched my head over and put in the 'hopefully it will become clear in time' basket
@DeeBee

This is probably my favorite thread at the moment.  Some of the stuff in TFA is truly taking on a whole new meaning, and it’s so much fun to revisit it. I thought I had picked that filmed apart to the point there were no bread crumbs left, but clearly I was wrong...
@IoJovi

Me too IoJovi! Smile
We can dig into the previous six movies too over the next two years Smile
[I've tried replying to everyone but my comments keep getting cut off. I can write a few lines tops. What should I do?! Beyond frustrating..]
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by MrsWindu on Sat 30 Dec - 21:24

So I was watching TFA bonus -Anatomy of a Snow Fight and my youngest shouts out ‘look he’s wearing his big trousers again !!!’ I had totally forgotten he wore those for training along with the braces Laughing

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by madeinmn on Sat 30 Dec - 21:47

@MyOnlyHope wrote:We can analyze the Forceback and Maz's guidance more in depth now that Rian's burned up the mystery box. It's all about Rey's intertwined destiny with Kylo and the Skywalker legacy as represented through the symbol of that legacy, the saber. Originally, tracing the history of the saber was something explored in TFA. After falling to the dark side, Kylo became interested in hunting down relics of his grandfather's life. He and his knights stole the saber from some kind of clan and Maz stole it from him. There's an old shot list that describes how Maz took the saber from Kylo and the KOR around a campfire. In her Forceback, Rey experiences her bond with the black clad knight she doesn't yet understand.

The belonging Rey seeks and the one who could still come back always referred to Ben Solo. Luke never really came back in the end, and now he never can. He wasn't meant to return, just realize himself that even though he failed his nephew and can't help him, nobody's ever really gone and there's someone who still could. Kylo and Rey are the story. We can say that for sure now. Rey ends TLJ holding the broken legacy in her hands. As others have said, she's the only one who still wants it. Even considering how she wound up with both pieces is interesting. We didn't see it, but she was given the opportunity to end the war by killing the sleeping boy just like Luke was. And she chose not to, collecting the two pieces of the broken saber instead.
@MyOnlyHope

I have always believed that Maz's words were about Ben and not Luke, even when I thought (for a very short minute LOL) that Rey was Luke's daughter....not sure why I felt that (and still do).

I love your thoughts on the broken saber, it's so poetic and "romantic" in a literary sense. It's an interesting thought, considering the way she went after Luke about taking the choice away from Ben....cuz here Ben reverted back to Kylo....could she live herself if she killed him in that moment? Makes me think she isn't done with him yet, and the broken saber is her reminder of that.

Y'all are so wise  Very Happy

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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 30 Dec - 21:58

Han Solo’s line: One apprentice, a boy, destroyed it all. Luke blamed himself.

You think? He sure as f**** should have blamed himself because he ignited his lightsaber above said boy’s bed with the “instinct” to kill him. You think Ben didn’t feel that malevolence?

ARGHH...this turns me into a gigantic rage ball.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sat 30 Dec - 22:23

@PalmettoBlue wrote:Han Solo’s line: One apprentice, a boy, destroyed it all. Luke blamed himself.

You think? He sure as f**** should have blamed himself because he ignited his lightsaber above said boy’s bed with the “instinct” to kill him. You think Ben didn’t feel that malevolence?

ARGHH...this turns me into a gigantic rage ball.
@PalmettoBlue

I still wonder if Han and Leia knew the whole truth.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 30 Dec - 22:29

@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:Han Solo’s line: One apprentice, a boy, destroyed it all. Luke blamed himself.

You think? He sure as f**** should have blamed himself because he ignited his lightsaber above said boy’s bed with the “instinct” to kill him. You think Ben didn’t feel that malevolence?

ARGHH...this turns me into a gigantic rage ball.
@PalmettoBlue

I still wonder if Han and Leia knew the whole truth.
@Darth_Awakened

No, they didn’t IMO. I think that Luke probably gave them the same story he initially gave Rey. And Leia always knew if the dark inside Ben, so she accepted the story. Han, I would guess, chalked it up to “too much Vader,” and left for good because he blamed himself for not doing his damn job as a father. He never “got” Ben. Leia did, but she was distracted...way too often. And she was the one who sent him away.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Starliteprism on Sat 30 Dec - 23:45

@Socialnole wrote:
@Darth_Awakened wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:After watching TLJ, I feel like now the legacy saber is a stand in for Ben Solo. Reywalkers were absolutely certain when it called to her it meant she was Luke’s daughter, but now it’s clear it’s an entirely different parallel. Ben is calling to her because he needs help. When she mailed herself to him on the Supremecy, the saber was with her and still intact. It’s now ended with the saber broken and split in two, and yet it’s still with her and she’s being given the opportunity to fix it. Same goes for Ben.
@IoJovi

I like this theory very much.
Also Maz's words about the belonging in the future and somebody coming back - also could refer to Ben.
@Darth_Awakened

I think that line for sure now means Ben. Because in TLJ Luke technically didn’t “come back”
@Socialnole

THere was a rumour that there is a whisper of "Ben" in that dialogue, but listening, not really catching it, but doesn't mean it's not there.
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Re: Anything you see anew in The Force Awakens after watching The Last Jedi?

Post by Night Huntress on Sat 30 Dec - 23:55

@Starliteprism wrote:
THere was a rumour that there is a whisper of "Ben" in that dialogue, but listening, not really catching it, but doesn't mean it's not there.
@Starliteprism

I hear it- and once you catch it you can't "un-hear" it anymore... but I'm not sure it it's some kind of "suggestive hearing" or if it's really there... Confus
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