Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

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Post by snufkin on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 9:53 pm

Our original joke is better, but it's now part of popular consciousness that Kylo did indeed make a mixtape for Rey.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:10 pm

Kathleen Kennedy's response is funny but the question is even funnier. Why, god, WHY did people think these two were freaking twins? I know the GA isn't going to Google character ages but Kylo does not look 19. Like, at all. If I didn't know his age I would probably peg Kylo at 23-25. And the way JJ had Adam look at her in TFA. The f***, people!?

Let's take a moment to mourn the anti "Kylo's 10 years older than her" argument. Remember that one? That was a cute one. Almost as cute as "He threw her into a tree", "He mind r***d (or actually r***d) her!" and "He sliced Finn's back". LucasFilm didn't give two f***s about their irrelevant age gap. Like Rey was going to reach out, hesitate and ask "How old are you"? to which he would reply "30", leaving Rey to storm off because "Ewww, gross, he's an old man."
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Post by IoJovi on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:16 pm

@RosiePancake wrote:
@shii405 wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@shii405
Rian's just a really respectful dude. He's just being courteous. He can talk about his movie all he wants but he won't pretend to spoil IX or step on JJ's toes. Ultimately JJ is still making a sequel to TFA and TLJ and his opinions seem to line up really well with Rian's. They started this together and JJ's going to finish it satisfactorily, I'm sure.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree, KK-JJ-Rian trio seems to be in line. You guys remember, how we wished JJ would direct TLJ since we were not sure if Rian is Reylo enough to continue JJ's vision? LOOOOL. And after TLJ, some wishing Rian to direct IX fearing JJ will tone Reylo down in IX. All just so funny.
@shii405

I think they give directors/writers enough freedom to imagine and build a proper plot. But if that director's plot is too messed up and doesn't fit with their vision/ general outline, then they have no choice but to say goodbye to that director.

And talking about KK, do you remember that KK said twins could run in the Skywalker family. And since we know that Rey and Ben are obviously not twins, and Ben is the last young descendant of his family, it means that one day Ben would marry Rey and Rey would give birth to twins. cheers

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@RosiePancake

As a proponent of future Reylo babies, KK’s response makes my heart sing...
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Post by shii405 on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 10:26 pm

@RosiePancake wrote:And talking about KK, do you remember that KK said twins could run in the Skywalker family. And since we know that Rey and Ben are obviously not twins, and Ben is the last young descendant of his family, it means that one day Ben would marry Rey and Rey would give birth to twins. cheers

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@RosiePancake

Twins among Reylo's seven children has always been my headcanon! cheers
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Post by CienaRee on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:07 pm

@shii405 wrote:
@RosiePancake wrote:And talking about KK, do you remember that KK said twins could run in the Skywalker family. And since we know that Rey and Ben are obviously not twins, and Ben is the last young descendant of his family, it means that one day Ben would marry Rey and Rey would give birth to twins. cheers

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread ZmlGrHF
@RosiePancake

Twins among Reylo's seven children has always been my headcanon! cheers
@shii405

This would be awesome but my headcanon is that their first child at least is a girl. I don't know why I just think Ben having a daughter would be adorable pus we've never really had a female Skywalker as a lead would be really cool(yes here was Leia but she wasn't meant to be a Skywalker originally and she was more of a supporting character in Luke's journey in my opinion).

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:21 pm

@CienaRee wrote:
@shii405 wrote:
@RosiePancake wrote:And talking about KK, do you remember that KK said twins could run in the Skywalker family. And since we know that Rey and Ben are obviously not twins, and Ben is the last young descendant of his family, it means that one day Ben would marry Rey and Rey would give birth to twins. cheers

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread ZmlGrHF
@RosiePancake

Twins among Reylo's seven children has always been my headcanon! cheers
@shii405

This would be awesome but my headcanon is that their first child at least is a girl. I don't know why I just think Ben having a daughter would be adorable pus we've never really had a female Skywalker as a lead would be really cool(yes here was Leia but she wasn't meant to be a Skywalker originally and she was more of a supporting character in Luke's journey in my opinion).
@CienaRee

Oh this is totally my headcanon too! Imagine a black-haired, pale-skinned, intense, powerful female version of Ben. They would have to find some young Angelina Jolie type to play the part. Lol. And her connection with her father would be unbreakable! Dammit! Ben and Rey need to have this girl! The boy can take after Rey ... and Han, lol.
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Post by CienaRee on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:27 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@CienaRee wrote:
@shii405 wrote:
@RosiePancake wrote:And talking about KK, do you remember that KK said twins could run in the Skywalker family. And since we know that Rey and Ben are obviously not twins, and Ben is the last young descendant of his family, it means that one day Ben would marry Rey and Rey would give birth to twins. cheers

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread ZmlGrHF
@RosiePancake

Twins among Reylo's seven children has always been my headcanon! cheers
@shii405

This would be awesome but my headcanon is that their first child at least is a girl. I don't know why I just think Ben having a daughter would be adorable pus we've never really had a female Skywalker as a lead would be really cool(yes here was Leia but she wasn't meant to be a Skywalker originally and she was more of a supporting character in Luke's journey in my opinion).
@CienaRee

Oh this is totally my headcanon too! Imagine a black-haired, pale-skinned, intense, powerful female version of Ben. They would have to find some young Angelina Jolie type to play the part. Lol. And her connection with her father would be unbreakable! Dammit! Ben and Rey need to have this girl! The boy can take after Rey ... and Han, lol.
@SoloSideCousin

I know!In my headcanons Ben and his daughter aways have a very close and loving relationship since he never really had that with the rest of his family so for him to have someone who loves him and understands him (besides Rey) since really both of them would be the last Skywalkers would be overwhelming.
I also find the idea that any child of Ben and Rey would be sort of a bridge between the old(Ben-the might Skyalker bloodline that makes you so powerful in the Force)and the new(Rey-you can be nobody but still become very powerful FS) a very interesting idea that hasn't really been explored before.

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Post by Kylo Men on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:49 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Look at all of these FILTHY Reylos emerging to make a mess of precious Star Wars! An absolutely shameful display.  Evil or Very Mad
@ZioRen

I think my favorite part of all this TLJ fallout is seeing the growing clash of Reylos v. those insisting that there was no plan and this movie doesn't make sense after TFA or leading into IX. Meaning there isn't just this little group of people who fervently believe in the Reylo, but some of the major publications, YouTube outlets, and GA too. Our numbers grow ever larger.... Twisted Evil
@californiagirl

Reading another site earlier there's this trend to people who say 1) I didn't see anything indicating Reylo and then 2) Rian Johnson failed to create believable motivation for Rey/Ren (especially Rey). They deny the existence of the motivation and then accuse Johnson of shoddy work because there isn't a motivation.

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 21 Dec 2017, 11:50 pm

I vote for the Reylo daughter to be played by Brooklynn Prince. (This girl gave an amazing performance in The Florida Project.)

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/14/daisy-ridley-surprises-florida-project-brooklynn-prince/
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Post by Reynak on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 12:29 am

I saw the movie again yesterday and liked it much more than the first time, it has flaws but I think it’s very good on the whole.

I guess the problem with fans is that we have expectations and this movie crushed some of them, perhaps too many. This is not Rian’s fault in general but ours. Instead of going there with an open mind to see what he had to offer storywise, we went there burdened with our expectstios, which prevented me from enjoying the movie fully the first time I saw it. At least this happened to me.

There are still things I don’t like but the movie improves dramatically on a second viewing, IMO.
I still have problems with the lack of continuity between TFA and TLJ because TFA set up several questions creating anticipation that TLJ jedi didn’t give a satisfying answer to, maybe because they mattered more to JJ than they did to Rian. For instance, when I fist saw TFA I thought Rey was a nobody and I told my son this and how poetic I thought it was. After more viewings I saw cinematographic language that hinted at Rey Kenoby or at DS origins, there were even hints at Rey Skywalker but her story with Kylo belied the latter. The problem is that movies are expected to surprise you and not be predictable and sometimes they go too far to achieve this. The effect of surprise is overvalued and very often it works against constructing a good story.

If these hints weren’t in TFA Rey “nobody” would have been a beautiful answer (the prince falling for a scavenger and adoring her) but if the movies must be seen as a whole it’s underwhelming. Too much fuss (encouraged by TFA and subsequent marketing) for an answer that works in TLJ but contradicts imagery present in TFA. TlJ works great in isolation but not so well if you see it as a continuation of the other movies. For me, this is the main problem.

It’s also a coral movie, not just focused on three main characters like the OT or TFA. This is fine in itself but it comes after TFA, which established three main protagonists. So raising Poe to protagonist status doesn’t feel satisfying to me, not because it doesn’t work in TLJ but because I don’t like a protagonist added in the second act of the trilogy. This isn’t how I’m used to having my stories told, I’m in for continuity in structure and didn’t feel comfortable with this change, I still don’t. I’d prefer to have him as a secondary character and have Finn’s more developed because TFA manged to create that interest in Finn. Poe was no more than a plot device in TFA and that was fine, why chage it?

Anyway, as an independent movie, on it’s own, TLJ is damn good. I’m in for cohesion anyway, that’s why I have issues with it as a second episode in a trilogy and part of SW as a whole. I’d also want the Force part of the story to be given more time because it was poignant and deep and the three actors involved gave fantastic performances. It’s no secret how good AD is, but Mark Hamill was incredible as Luke. And Daisy was only a few steps behind them because they are so damn good. She was great for a younger actress.

By the way, the fight scene against Snoke can be seen as a metaphor for sex at least as regards subtext and yesterday I noticed how Kylo was lying on the floor after the explosion, on his side, as if he was sleeping. It seemed a bit strange for me the first time I saw it but now I think he was like a man who’s made love with a woman who made his world rock and when he wakes up from his sleep he’s alone in his bed. The girl went away without saying good bye or leaving him a note. He was furious after that, like a spurned lover. The visuals may suggest that.

He’s beyond himself after he wakes up all alone and wants to destroy the ungrateful lover ( blow that piece of junk out of the sky) in a feat of rage. When the rage abates he’s broken, though, yearning for her despite himself. He wants to hate her because he feels used and abandoned but he’s got it bad for her. He’s the image of heartbreak and crushed romantic feelings.

I also noticed how Hux looks at Kylo several times, that’s sheer hate in his eyes and his gaze looks chilling, nothing to do with his previous hilarious interactions with Poe, Snoke or Kylo himself. Kylo’d better beware but he won’t, because he is so lost in his own personal turmoil. This suggests Hux can take Snoke’s place as a seriously bad guy and Domnall can pull it off. I don’t think Kylo will be the villain, he doesn’t give that vibe, his body language never suggests that and Driver is a fine actor. If he was really evil we’d have felt it. I never had that impression, with Hux I did. He tried to shoot Kylo when he was unconscious and he’ll try to destroy him again, no doubt. And he’s a cur, like Snoke said, a cur who hates Kylo in a cold way, as cold as his intent to destroy the Resistance.

I loved those dice that passed from one Skywalker to another, the three of them, Han’s dice, and that Snoke called Kylo young Solo and told him he had his father’s heart. I think this may be foreshadowing. He’s his father’s son, not only Vader’s spawn. And he may not be strong enough for the DS because, unlike Anakin, he’s got a soft heart like Han’s. In the OT Han Solo saved Luke and made it possible for the Resistance to win. Also, Rey said to Luke Ben was their only hope if Luke didn’t want to come back. This should mean he will be crucial to save the day in lX if there’s continuity.


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Post by BenRey on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:54 am

The Atlantic did a follow up to their Reylo fan fic article.

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread 20171216


In the days before The Last Jedi opened in theaters, three Star Wars fans who go by Rosie, Ricca, and Trebia started receiving messages online from people who’d seen the film early. The gist, as Rosie described it: “How does it feel to have your fan fiction turned into a movie?”

Now, many of the pro-Reylo fans feel vindicated, shouting “Reylo is canon” across Tumblr and other social-media platforms after The Last Jedi’s premiere. Rosie said a friend texted her to speculate that the director Rian Johnson had read her work while writing The Last Jedi. The authors, though, aren’t so sure. “I did not have the reaction, ‘Oh my god, this is Interstellar Transmissions made real,’” Rosie said. “We and the writers of the Star Wars movie came to similar conclusions based on the same evidence. We picked up some of the stuff they were laying down.” (Interstellar Transmissions and Forms are, it’s worth noting, surely not the only fan-fiction stories that anticipated parts of The Last Jedi.)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theatlantic.com/amp/article/548885/
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:21 am

@Reynak
Personally, I'm always going to ask myself if TFA actually set up those mysteries at all or if fans latched on in the absence or avoidance of real mysteries. Rather than acknowledge the canon character dynamics they got lost chasing shadows in JJ's mystery box. It's all about placing questions over organic storytelling.

Nothing in TFA actually suggests that Rey is anybody important or related to anybody important. In fact, the undercurrent is that she has to let go of her past because it's dragging her down. She wasted 14 years of her life waiting for a family that was "never coming back". Maz Kanata spells that out as blatantly as possible and yet the parentage theories persisted until release and continue to persist even now. I'm not kidding. There's a section of SW fans who are utterly convinced that Kylo lied to Rey about her abandonment. I guess they didn't hear the part where Rey herself confirms the truth because she knew it all along and couldn't admit it. This is another great example of fans latching on, creating a mystery where there is no mystery and beginning the cycle of disappointment all over again.

The "parentage" thing started before TFA was even released, FWIW. People were already making a mystery out of nothing before they knew anything about Rey's character of the storyline. You can't please a fanbase like that and Rian didn't even try. He went for what was the most narratively poetic, satisfying and challenging to Rey as a character, and from that perspective I'm with him 100%.

The Snoke situation is even stupider, IMO. Absolutely nothing in TFA implies that he's anything beyond what he turned out to be, a rich, powerful dark sider who seduced Ben Solo. Fans assumed there had to be a lot more to him based on precedents in SW, and now that it turns out he was largely a plot device they're salty. But, again, they were looking at it as a mystery to be solved rather than a story. They weren't thinking about the organic process of characterization or asking themselves what purpose Snoke could serve if he wasn't some ancient dark side force.

Having watched the film several times I'm in complete agreement with just about every choice Rian made. It even falls perfectly in line with SW as a poetic narrative. It echoes previous plotlines in the most satisfying way without directly repeating them, and overall it's a very entertaining film, exactly the film I would have wanted. It holds up surprisingly well in my eyes considering the fact that I spent two years theorizing about its twists and turns.

Rian came it it from the right perspective; many fans did not, particularly where Luke is concerned. They can't accept him as a mentor figure who is largely in the story to support Rey and Kylo. They wanted Luke to be the hero or main character going in and were sorely disappointed when that turned out not to be the case. Again, that isn't a problem with Rian's writing, it's a matter of unappeasable expectations. Luke's arc is damn powerful and I truly believe many slamming it are going to come around after IX.

My only gripe is Poe. I would have wanted his screen-time cut down to at least half what he had. Actually, I would have wanted him to die in TFA, but that's a separate matter. I actually didn't mind his scenes because I enjoyed Holdo immensely and I understand why Rian felt the need to promote him. Carrie's health at the time was a huge contributing factor. Originally there was more of a plotline surrounding Leia's tension with Holdo that was reworked to make more room for Poe.
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Post by shii405 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 6:43 am

Oh wow! How do I subscribe? Take my money!

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Post by rey09 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 7:00 am

@Reynak wrote:
By the way, the fight scene against Snoke can be seen as a metaphor for sex at least as regards subtext and yesterday I noticed how Kylo was lying on the floor after the explosion, on his side, as if he was sleeping. It was a bit strange for me the first time I saw it but now I think he was like a man who’s made love with a woman who made his world rock and when he wakes up from his sleep he’s alone in his bed. The girl went away without saying good bye or leaving him a note. He was furious after that, like a spurned lover. The visuals may suggest that.

He’s beyond himself after he wakes up all alone and wants to destroy the ungrateful lover ( blow that piece of junk out of the sky) in a feat of rage. When the rage abates he’s broken, though, yearning for her despite himself. He wants to hate her because he feels used and abandoned but he’s got it bad for her. He’s the image of heartbreak and crushed romantic feelings.

@Reynak WOW. I am blown away. This is so true!!! They had metaphorical sex and she ditched!! I recall the scene where Hux tells Kylo what happened and you can see Kylo's eyes so big and becoming enraged. It's like Rey left him for another guy, a guy who he thinks she has no real need to be with (you don't play a part in this story). He would give her the galaxy and she chose the other guy. And then he goes after the resistance like a jealous ex. Lmao wow Kylo, wow.
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Post by MrsWindu on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 7:31 am

Finally received The Art of TLJ (a week late !) and both my kids thought in this concept art Kylo and Rey were holding hands at first glance....

Only had a few minutes to look through it but I’m intregued by what I’ve seen

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread 87399c10
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Post by SkyStar on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 7:34 am

@MrsWindu wrote:Finally received The Art of TLJ (a week late !) and both my kids thought in this concept art Kylo and Rey were holding hands at first glance....

Only had a few minutes to look through it but I’m intregued by what I’ve seen

Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread 87399c10
@MrsWindu

Aw, but it totally looks like it. Do you recommend the book? I am thinking about ordering it. Smile

edit: also there is a bald Kylo, right? Very Happy
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Post by MrsWindu on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 9:13 am

@SkyStar

I’m very biased as the Art of...books appeal to me from a niche nerd perspective. I’ve locked myself in my room to look closer at the beginning of the book. Am bearly a 1/10 of the way in but OMG it’s is packed full of goodness not just from Rian but the artists themselves and the conceptual routes they explored. Here’s a few more pics & copy but I will pm a moderator to see how much I can share

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Post by Lucina on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:17 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Reynak
Personally, I'm always going to ask myself if TFA actually set up those mysteries at all or if fans latched on in the absence or avoidance of real mysteries. Rather than acknowledge the canon character dynamics they got lost chasing shadows in JJ's mystery box. It's all about placing questions over organic storytelling.

Nothing in TFA actually suggests that Rey is anybody important or related to anybody important. In fact, the undercurrent is that she has to let go of her past because it's dragging her down. She wasted 14 years of her life waiting for a family that was "never coming back". Maz Kanata spells that out as blatantly as possible and yet the parentage theories persisted until release and continue to persist even now. I'm not kidding. There's a section of SW fans who are utterly convinced that Kylo lied to Rey about her abandonment. I guess they didn't hear the part where Rey herself confirms the truth because she knew it all along and couldn't admit it. This is another great example of fans latching on, creating a mystery where there is no mystery and beginning the cycle of disappointment all over again.

The "parentage" thing started before TFA was even released, FWIW. People were already making a mystery out of nothing before they knew anything about Rey's character of the storyline. You can't please a fanbase like that and Rian didn't even try. He went for what was the most narratively poetic, satisfying and challenging to Rey as a character, and from that perspective I'm with him 100%.

The Snoke situation is even stupider, IMO. Absolutely nothing in TFA implies that he's anything beyond what he turned out to be, a rich, powerful dark sider who seduced Ben Solo. Fans assumed there had to be a lot more to him based on precedents in SW, and now that it turns out he was largely a plot device they're salty. But, again, they were looking at it as a mystery to be solved rather than a story. They weren't thinking about the organic process of characterization or asking themselves what purpose Snoke could serve if he wasn't some ancient dark side force.

Having watched the film several times I'm in complete agreement with just about every choice Rian made. It even falls perfectly in line with SW as a poetic narrative. It echoes previous plotlines in the most satisfying way without directly repeating them, and overall it's a very entertaining film, exactly the film I would have wanted. It holds up surprisingly well in my eyes considering the fact that I spent two years theorizing about its twists and turns.

Rian came it it from the right perspective; many fans did not, particularly where Luke is concerned. They can't accept him as a mentor figure who is largely in the story to support Rey and Kylo. They wanted Luke to be the hero or main character going in and were sorely disappointed when that turned out not to be the case. Again, that isn't a problem with Rian's writing, it's a matter of unappeasable expectations. Luke's arc is damn powerful and I truly believe many slamming it are going to come around after IX.

My only gripe is Poe. I would have wanted his screen-time cut down to at least half what he had. Actually, I would have wanted him to die in TFA, but that's a separate matter. I actually didn't mind his scenes because I enjoyed Holdo immensely and I understand why Rian felt the need to promote him. Carrie's health at the time was a huge contributing factor. Originally there was more of a plotline surrounding Leia's tension with Holdo that was reworked to make more room for Poe.
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Regarding the bolded part: I don’t think that’s the main reason why people are pissed about Luke’s portrayal. The problem is, that Luke was contemplating to kill Ben in his sleep. That goes against everything that was previously established about his character. So it’s against Luke’s moral compass to kill Darth Vader (who is basically a stranger to him at that point), yet thinks (albeit briefly) about killing his own nephew in his sleep? I’m sorry but that’s just out of character! And afterwards he doesn’t even try to make things right again but immediately gives up and claims the Jedi have to end??? That’s almost as bad as Padme losing her will to live after the birth of her twins!  Mad

I’m perfectly fine with the OT heroes having flaws and making mistakes (that’s way more interesting than being perfect anyway) but their actions and motivations have to make sense to me and shouldn’t contradict what was established about them before, even if they're just supporting characters in this story now.

That's one of the main reasons why I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with TLJ right now and I'm not even a massive Luke Skywalker fan!
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Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:39 pm

I guess this thread is the post TLJ version of BatB thread - so I'am posting it in here.

By Lighting Strikes: https://twitter.com/L_Strikes_art

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Post by snufkin on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 1:55 pm

@rey09 wrote:
@Reynak wrote:
By the way, the fight scene against Snoke can be seen as a metaphor for sex at least as regards subtext and yesterday I noticed how Kylo was lying on the floor after the explosion, on his side, as if he was sleeping. It was a bit strange for me the first time I saw it but now I think he was like a man who’s made love with a woman who made his world rock and when he wakes up from his sleep he’s alone in his bed. The girl went away without saying good bye or leaving him a note. He was furious after that, like a spurned lover. The visuals may suggest that.

He’s beyond himself after he wakes up all alone and wants to destroy the ungrateful lover ( blow that piece of junk out of the sky) in a feat of rage. When the rage abates he’s broken, though, yearning for her despite himself. He wants to hate her because he feels used and abandoned but he’s got it bad for her. He’s the image of heartbreak and crushed romantic feelings.

@Reynak WOW. I am blown away. This is so true!!! They had metaphorical sex and she ditched!! I recall the scene where Hux tells Kylo what happened and you can see Kylo's eyes so big and becoming enraged. It's like Rey left him for another guy, a guy who he thinks she has no real need to be with (you don't play a part in this story). He would give her the galaxy and she chose the other guy. And then he goes after the resistance like a jealous ex. Lmao wow Kylo, wow.
@rey09

This brings to mind @MeadowofAshes joke that at the end of Snow Fight when he's on the ground staring at her over the rift, she ditches him while he's laying there hoping she'd cuddle and mouthing "Call me???" at her. Which ha, TLJ was one big awkward post hook-up phone call.
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Post by Chris24601 on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 2:13 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Reynak
Personally, I'm always going to ask myself if TFA actually set up those mysteries at all or if fans latched on in the absence or avoidance of real mysteries. Rather than acknowledge the canon character dynamics they got lost chasing shadows in JJ's mystery box. It's all about placing questions over organic storytelling.
@FrolickingFizzgig
A big part of it is that a huge part of the fanbase didn't understand J.J.'s term "The Mystery Box." Its not a literal mystery, its a storytelling method based on the start of a story where "you find a box."

What's in the box is a mystery, so the first scene/movement in the story is about opening the box to find out what's inside. The plot advances by answering the question (the mystery) posed by the setup (the box).

J.J.'s description of the process then talks about how the answer to the first question/scene needs to lead to the next scene. So what's in the box? A Key. A key to what? So the answer to the first scene leads naturally to the next scene... finding out what the key goes to and that answer leads to yet another question (ex. the key is to a door. What's behind the door?) and so it goes until you reach the end of the story.

So, yeah, I totally agree with your assessment that the diehards where creating mysteries where there weren't any... mostly because they misunderstood what the Mystery Box actually meant and wouldn't listen when people told them otherwise. The questions posed were meant to be answered inside the story itself.

Once this story is complete with episode IX, it should hold together nicely, just as ANH, ESB and RotJ do.

I think people forget how people felt after ESB and going into RotJ because its been so long (many here may not have even been born at the time so it was always a finished story to you) and because the ending of the PT in RotS was always a foregone conclusion so there was no doubt of Anakin's fall, the destruction of the Jedi and rise of the Empire... the only questions were in the details.

Once you can marathon TFA, TLJ, IX and watch TLJ knowing how IX ends up I think a LOT of the discontent with TLJ will melt away.

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Post by vaderito on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 2:40 pm

Luke is not the main hero anymore and different rules apply to supporting characters. It's really simple. He can't save Kylo cause his place in the story isn't the same as it was in ROTJ. He thought of killing Ben in his sleep for the same reason too - what the main hero cannot do, a supporting character can. His fans should understand that different roles in the story result in different characterization. There's nothing un-organic in this development - people become more conservative as they grow older, so Luke's endless optimism and liberalism from 29 years ago was not going to stick. Hence thinking to do something to Ben that he didn't think to do to Vader after he found out they were related.

OTOH, since Rey and Kylo are the main protagonists, their place in the story in Luke's from OT. Kylo and Rey #truelove can save Kylo because that's what main leads do. TLJ did one fairytale trope right which is that killing the witch (Snoke) cannot lift the curse, only #truelove can. Cue Episode IX.

BTW, noticed that TFA and TLJ end in a similar fashion:

Rey and Kylo call the saber to them. The saber goes to Rey or explodes.

Rey and Kylo exchange longing looks across the space until Rey turns away from Kylo, who is always in a submissive position (lying, kneeling), and leaves him while keeping the thing that is the symbol of their bond (the saber, two halves of the broken saber)

I hope that Rey won't leave him in IX.
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Post by Gemlake on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 3:00 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig
The speculation over Rey's parentage began with the announcement of Daisy's casting and dominated discussion through the debut of TFA.  JJ certainly did not create that.  But he also could have easily made the parentage reveal in TFA, perhaps by adding a shot of Rey's parents to the forceback.   Kylo's scene with Rey in TLJ would still have dramatic impact, without the "reveal".  In fact, I think my enjoyment of that scene is because I've always believed that Rey is random, so I could view the scene without any feeling of disappointment.
I agree that the Snoke critism is ridiculous.  We knew nothing of the emperor in the OT, and no one complained.  I was hoping that Rey would see something of Snoke's luring Ben to the darkside, but Rian evidently felt that the Luke lightsaber story was enough.  
Of course, one of the biggest plot points in TFA that Rian further developed was Reylo. But he gets no credit for that, because almost no one recognized it in TFA.

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Post by Lucina on Fri 22 Dec 2017, 3:44 pm

@vaderito wrote:Luke is not the main hero anymore and different rules apply to supporting characters. It's really simple. He can't save Kylo cause his place in the story isn't the same as it was in ROTJ. He thought of killing Ben in his sleep for the same reason too - what the main hero cannot do, a supporting character can. His fans should understand that different roles in the story result in different characterization. There's nothing un-organic in this development - people become more conservative as they grow older, so Luke's endless optimism and liberalism from 29 years ago was not going to stick. Hence thinking to do something to Ben that he didn't think to do to Vader after he found out they were related.

OTOH, since Rey and Kylo are the main protagonists, their place in the story in Luke's from OT. Kylo and Rey #truelove can save Kylo because that's what main leads do. TLJ did one fairytale trope right which is that killing the witch (Snoke) cannot lift the curse, only #truelove can. Cue Episode IX.

BTW, noticed that TFA and TLJ end in a similar fashion:

Rey and Kylo call the saber to them. The saber goes to Rey or explodes.

Rey and Kylo exchange longing looks across the space until Rey turns away from Kylo, who is always in a submissive position (lying, kneeling), and leaves him while keeping the thing that is the symbol of their bond (the saber, two halves of the broken saber)

I hope that Rey won't leave him in IX.
@vaderito

I agree that Luke can't save Kylo because their relationship is tainted. Luke's actions turned Ben to the dark side. He says as much to Leia at the end of the film. I have no problem with that. However, Luke thinking of killing Ben is a big problem for me. Why would Luke have lost his optimism at this point? Ben hadn't turned yet and Luke was successful in redeeming Vader. After turning to the dark side and killing his father I could see why Luke would lose all hope in Ben. But before that? No. Again, my problem is not the role that Luke occupies in the story now. I actually like that Luke was the catalyst that turned Ben to the dark side. I just wish they had come up with a backstory that feels less jarring to me.
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