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Post by snufkin on Sun 31 Dec - 19:41

@shii405 - One of the perks of working with Kathleen Kennedy is that she finagled the job of doing the English language dub for a Ghibli movie and talking extensively to the press about her love of those films/characters. I'd say she sees a lot of both Matilida and Miyazaki's heroines in Rey.
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 31 Dec - 20:09

@SheLitAFire wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Sort of out of the way, but Halsey confirmed on Twitter that she also thinks her song 'Control' fits Ben Solo well! This is pretty amazing since a lot of Reylo shippers and Kylo fans were associating the song with Kylo for a long time.

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@ZioRen

How did Halsey confirm it? Sounds like she's just posting her own lyrics as a tweet. I must have missed something. scratch Is she responding to a question about TLJ?
@SheLitAFire

She's responding to the tweet you see in there using a meme. She's saying that yes, she totally agrees the song fits Ben Solo. She's a big Star Wars fan, has a couple of Star Wars related tattoos and name dropped Anidala as a ship name. She knows exactly what that tweeter is talking about and it's clear when you read the rest of the thread. She even had antis get on her case over it.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Sun 31 Dec - 20:10

@ZioRen wrote:
@SheLitAFire wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Sort of out of the way, but Halsey confirmed on Twitter that she also thinks her song 'Control' fits Ben Solo well! This is pretty amazing since a lot of Reylo shippers and Kylo fans were associating the song with Kylo for a long time.

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@ZioRen

How did Halsey confirm it? Sounds like she's just posting her own lyrics as a tweet. I must have missed something. scratch Is she responding to a question about TLJ?
@SheLitAFire

She's responding to the tweet you see in there using a meme. She's saying that yes, she totally agrees the song fits Ben Solo. She's a big Star Wars fan, has a couple of Star Wars related tattoos and name dropped Anidala as a ship name. She knows exactly what that tweeter is talking about and it's clear when you read the rest of the thread. She even had antis get on her case over it.
@ZioRen

ah, I'm not as familiar with the setup on Twitter. I thought the Reylo tweet came after Halsey's lyrics tweet.
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Post by ZioRen on Sun 31 Dec - 20:13

She even reiterated it when an anti whined about her responding to a Reylo shipper. She said something like "All I said was that the song fits Ben Solo, go away."
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Post by shii405 on Sun 31 Dec - 20:34

@snufkin wrote:@shii405 - One of the perks of working with Kathleen Kennedy is that she finagled the job of doing the English language dub for a Ghibli movie and talking extensively to the press about her love of those films/characters. I'd say she sees a lot of both Matilida and Miyazaki's heroines in Rey.
@snufkin

Was there any writeup before comparing Ghibli characters and Reylo?
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Post by snufkin on Sun 31 Dec - 21:12

@shii405 wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@shii405 - One of the perks of working with Kathleen Kennedy is that she finagled the job of doing the English language dub for a Ghibli movie and talking extensively to the press about her love of those films/characters. I'd say she sees a lot of both Matilida and Miyazaki's heroines in Rey.
@snufkin

Was there any writeup before comparing Ghibli characters and Reylo?
@shii405

I don’t think so, just what’s been discussed here in the past. I would imagine that as with Matilda, Rey herself likely has thoughts on the topic!
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Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 1 Jan - 0:30

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Post by MeadowofAshes on Mon 1 Jan - 4:30

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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Jan - 4:38


@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
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Post by snufkin on Mon 1 Jan - 4:45

Oh the Bronte sisters Tweet is a riff on Kate Beaton's classic comic, Dude Watching with the Bronte Sisters. Speaking of the Brontes, film critic for the Times of London/The Economist and NYU Tisch school prof is full on the Jane Eyre/Byronic comparisons

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Post by Armadeus on Mon 1 Jan - 5:38

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 1 Jan - 8:13

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
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Post by MeadowofAshes on Mon 1 Jan - 8:17

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
@SoloSideCousin

I honestly thought the same. He looks like he could be in his late teens in the flashback. And all we know from Bloodline is that Leia hasn't heard from Ben and Luke in a long time. I don't remember the length of time being specified -- I'd have to look.
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Post by ZioRen on Mon 1 Jan - 8:24

I'd say maybe ask Matt or Pablo how old Ben was but I guess they wouldn't tell us that either. Since that would also answer the question of when Luke went into exile. Maybe Rian would answer it.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 1 Jan - 8:25

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
@SoloSideCousin

I honestly thought the same. He looks like he could be in his late teens in the flashback. And all we know from Bloodline is that Leia hasn't heard from Ben and Luke in a long time. I don't remember the length of time being specified -- I'd have to look.
@MeadowofAshes

Also, there was something in the Visual Dictionary that said the word of the Temple incident did not come out for a long time.

I think Pablo also said at some point that Kylo had been working with Hux for about 5 years.

This tells me that there might be a time gap between Luke and his lightsaber and Kylo going into the FO.

Also, the movie made a specific point of telling us that students left with Ben.

So we might be getting a period of time where Ben and the students were rogue. Knights of Ren anybody? Very Happy
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Post by MeadowofAshes on Mon 1 Jan - 9:21

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
@SoloSideCousin

I honestly thought the same. He looks like he could be in his late teens in the flashback. And all we know from Bloodline is that Leia hasn't heard from Ben and Luke in a long time. I don't remember the length of time being specified -- I'd have to look.
@MeadowofAshes

Also, there was something in the Visual Dictionary that said the word of the Temple incident did not come out for a long time.

I think Pablo also said at some point that Kylo had been working with Hux for about 5 years.

This tells me that there might be a time gap between Luke and his lightsaber and Kylo going into the FO.

Also, the movie made a specific point of telling us that students left with Ben.

So we might be getting a period of time where Ben and the students were rogue. Knights of Ren anybody? Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Thaaaaat is what I'm thinking! Because there was that whole scene cut from TFA where Maz stole the legacy saber from Kylo and the Knights, remember? However, didn't Pablo clarify that the Knights were around before Ben arrived on scene? I'd like to see that tweet again.
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Post by Rei of Sunshine on Mon 1 Jan - 9:28

I am loving the #kylorenchallenge on instagram!
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Jan - 9:38

@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
@SoloSideCousin

I honestly thought the same. He looks like he could be in his late teens in the flashback. And all we know from Bloodline is that Leia hasn't heard from Ben and Luke in a long time. I don't remember the length of time being specified -- I'd have to look.
@MeadowofAshes

Also, there was something in the Visual Dictionary that said the word of the Temple incident did not come out for a long time.

I think Pablo also said at some point that Kylo had been working with Hux for about 5 years.

This tells me that there might be a time gap between Luke and his lightsaber and Kylo going into the FO.

Also, the movie made a specific point of telling us that students left with Ben.

So we might be getting a period of time where Ben and the students were rogue. Knights of Ren anybody? Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Thaaaaat is what I'm thinking! Because there was that whole scene cut from TFA where Maz stole the legacy saber from Kylo and the Knights, remember? However, didn't Pablo clarify that the Knights were around before Ben arrived on scene? I'd like to see that tweet again.
@MeadowofAshes

I am leaning towards the same. I don't think it's ever come how long it had been since Leia heard from Luke/Ben in Bloodline (there was "static" from radiation interference or whatever), but I think Pablo has tweeted a few ambiguous things to make it sound like the Temple Incident could have happened before the Bloodline Reveal.

Maybe we're looking at a timeline something like:

1. At 10 years old, Ben shows some major sign of darkness and is sent off to Luke/Rey is born (light rising to meet the dark)
2. Late teens - Temple incident happens (I agree that the "scared boy" looked very young in those shots)
3. Late teens - Age 23-25-ish...  Kylo heads the KoR/does a lot of relic hunting with his former ex-student colleagues. (Perhaps Snoke fills him in on his Vader lineage at this time as a seduction technique?)
4. Age 24-25, Lost and feeling in need of a mentor, Kylo catches on with Snoke and joins the FO.

ETA: Ben having some rogue period where he's lost and running around with the KoR could fit the rumors we've heard about Ben getting involved with a "bad crowd" or "gang" in his adolescence.
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Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 1 Jan - 10:12


@Rei of Sunshine wrote:I am loving the #kylorenchallenge on instagram!
@Rei of Sunshine

The little kids & babies are my favorite.
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 1 Jan - 10:21

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@MeadowofAshes wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:

@MeadowofAshes

Really?  Story Group is still going to Mystery Box this? When we know that Ben fell around the age of 23, and that it was Luke's fault? Rolling Eyes

I can't see them dragging out the Ben/Luke story into IX....
@ISeeAnIsland

I wonder if they are going to make the whole 23 thing more muddy. Ben looked younger than 23 when Luke went after him. The only reason we know about the fall at 23 is because Pablo said Bloodline was like 6 or 7 years before TFA. Maybe they are backing off from that?
@SoloSideCousin

I honestly thought the same. He looks like he could be in his late teens in the flashback. And all we know from Bloodline is that Leia hasn't heard from Ben and Luke in a long time. I don't remember the length of time being specified -- I'd have to look.
@MeadowofAshes

Also, there was something in the Visual Dictionary that said the word of the Temple incident did not come out for a long time.

I think Pablo also said at some point that Kylo had been working with Hux for about 5 years.

This tells me that there might be a time gap between Luke and his lightsaber and Kylo going into the FO.

Also, the movie made a specific point of telling us that students left with Ben.

So we might be getting a period of time where Ben and the students were rogue. Knights of Ren anybody? Very Happy
@SoloSideCousin

Thaaaaat is what I'm thinking! Because there was that whole scene cut from TFA where Maz stole the legacy saber from Kylo and the Knights, remember? However, didn't Pablo clarify that the Knights were around before Ben arrived on scene? I'd like to see that tweet again.
@MeadowofAshes

I am leaning towards the same. I don't think it's ever come how long it had been since Leia heard from Luke/Ben in Bloodline (there was "static" from radiation interference or whatever), but I think Pablo has tweeted a few ambiguous things to make it sound like the Temple Incident could have happened before the Bloodline Reveal.

Maybe we're looking at a timeline something like:

1. At 10 years old, Ben shows some major sign of darkness and is sent off to Luke/Rey is born (light rising to meet the dark)
2. Late teens - Temple incident happens (I agree that the "scared boy" looked very young in those shots)
3. Late teens - Age 23-25-ish...  Kylo heads the KoR/does a lot of relic hunting with his former ex-student colleagues. (Perhaps Snoke fills him in on his Vader lineage at this time as a seduction technique?)
4. Age 24-25, Lost and feeling in need of a mentor, Kylo catches on with Snoke and joins the FO.

ETA: Ben having some rogue period where he's lost and running around with the KoR could fit the rumors we've heard about Ben getting involved with a "bad crowd" or "gang" in his adolescence.
@ISeeAnIsland

Also, remember the old script where Ben disappears and the Temple is destroyed and we thought Ben might have been kidnapped? And remember how some of us thought that they might have tortured him and how he might have had to fight his way to survival and leadership status?

Maybe that particular scenario doesn't happen, but I really think that we have not heard the entirety of Ben's tragic backstory. I mean if they want to redeem him (and the kneeling penitent pose screams that they will), I don't think they will pile on a bunch of unsympathetic young Ben stuff. His business with the FO will be enough. In fact, this may be yet another instance of exploitation of his blood. Snoke, Luke ... and if the KoR turn out to be the old Acolytes of the Beyond, Ben would be the ultimate Vader relic.

Sith, because he breaks from Luke before the Vader reveal ... then the Vader reveal could lead to some of his Jedi compatriots turning on him, which would weaken him and make him easy pickings for the KoR and then Snoke.
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 1 Jan - 11:12

No one is going to make me believe that Ben is 23 in the temple scene and 29 in the rest of TLJ. I kind of accepted it in TFA, but when I saw that temple scene, no way. They made AD younger, only a few years older than Rey and imo it fits the story better. AD said in an official video that KK reminded him that the character is younger than him so he had to consider his youthfulness in his performance. I don’t think that would matter if it were only a difference of 3 years or so. My take is that he is 16-17 in the temple scene making him around 23 in TLJ. They mention his age nowhere. One thing that ocurred to me is whether they ever confirmed that TFA happens 30 years after Endor. I mean official sources not Wookieepedia.

Some SW review of the year on Star Wars twitter account:

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https://twitter.com/starwars/status/947516508867059713
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 1 Jan - 11:48

@SanghaRen wrote:No one is going to make me believe that Ben is 23 in the temple scene and 29 in the rest of TLJ. I kind of accepted it in TFA, but when I saw that temple scene, no way. They made AD younger, only a few years older than Rey and imo it fits the story better. AD said in an official video that KK reminded him that the character is younger than him so he had to consider his youthfulness in his performance. I don’t think that would matter if it were only a difference of 3 years or so. My take is that he is 16-17 in the temple scene making him around 23 in TLJ. They mention his age nowhere. One thing that ocurred to me is whether they ever confirmed that TFA happens 30 years after Endor. I mean official sources not Wookieepedia.

Some SW review of the year on Star Wars twitter account:

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - Page 6 B1049d10

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/947516508867059713
@SanghaRen

I completely agree. Adam as a 34 year old playing a 29 year old is not that big of a difference. But instead playing Ben/Kylo at basically the age of a college/university student would be a big difference.

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately the comments on the twitter page are predictably asinine. :-(
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 1 Jan - 12:18

@SoloSideCousin

Yeah, the comments are pretty awful. I’ll never understand how people put energy in writing hate posts for a movie. I could get it if said movie was promoting really nasty stuff, but only because it disappointed you? Oh, poor you... It’s also ok to just not watch it anymore and let others enjoy it instead of lashing out on public channels every chance you get. That’s like an adult thing to do. We don’t get a redemption for Ben Solo, I’ll be salty but I don’t think I’ll go lash out on every LF/Disney channels. What good would it do?
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 1 Jan - 18:34

@SoloSideCousin wrote:

*snipped for scrolling/readability*

@ISeeAnIsland

Also, remember the old script where Ben disappears and the Temple is destroyed and we thought Ben might have been kidnapped? And remember how some of us thought that they might have tortured him and how he might have had to fight his way to survival and leadership status?

Maybe that particular scenario doesn't happen, but I really think that we have not heard the entirety of Ben's tragic backstory. I mean if they want to redeem him (and the kneeling penitent pose screams that they will), I don't think they will pile on a bunch of unsympathetic young Ben stuff. His business with the FO will be enough. In fact, this may be yet another instance of exploitation of his blood. Snoke, Luke ... and if the KoR turn out to be the old Acolytes of the Beyond, Ben would be the ultimate Vader relic.

Sith, because he breaks from Luke before the Vader reveal ... then the Vader reveal could lead to some of his Jedi compatriots turning on him, which would weaken him and make him easy pickings for the KoR and then Snoke.
@SoloSideCousin

I agree that it seems like there's a significant chunk of time missing. I was surprised at how little running time Ben's fall took in TLJ...and they really didn't go at all into how Ben went from a scared boy leaving the temple after the massacre to being Snoke's enforcer. There's a pretty obvious gap there.

Who knows if we'll ever learn what happened there, whether in IX or in a tie-in comic, though. The KoR angle could very well have been Ben's original backstory from JJ, and Rian perhaps opted to script that for the simplicity of the Luke-considering-killing-Ben story that they went with.
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Post by BenRey on Mon 1 Jan - 18:56

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