The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by special_cases on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:40 pm

While you can understand that Kylo can see some Rey's memories from the dialogue in the movie, it's impossible to get that part about Kylo's skills from TLJ. I actually think that she used his skills with the last Red Dude - she briefly looked at Kylo and one can think that she realised something.

I hope RJ will explain this moment on Blu-Ray. But sometimes I wonder why create such important details and almost ignore them in the movie. If it is in EPIX, that's cool. But if people always need to read books to be sure about main heroes...
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by SheLitAFire on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:43 pm

@Riri wrote:

The Luke and Rey dance couldve been sweet Smile
@Riri

Dance scene? I'm trying to find that reference in the other posts but can't.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by snufkin on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:51 pm

Ah incoming fandom freakout from Reddit and the novelization!

@MrsWindu wrote:Forgive me I might have missed this first point and it’s been mentioned - with regards to novelisation

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2018/02/24/last-jedi-novelization-leaks/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Spoiler:
Han Solo carved a Leia figurine out of Endor wood the night before the Battle of Endor. It is burned during a brief memorial service for Solo before the evacuation of D’Qar.victory.
@MrsWindu

That's a nice touch, but uh

Spoiler:
You'd think Han and Leia were too busy getting it on the night before they could've died for him to have any spare time for whittling.

Otherwise:

Spoiler:
LMAO that Luke tells the Caretakers that Rey is his niece as a cover story. I mean she did come on behalf of his sister. Just that puts the whole business of sneaking around with Luke's shirtless naughty nephew for secret late night tete-a-tetes and handholding sessions in an awkward light.

More with the Dice! I mean, we all know better know to expect that LF does any follow through between details in the books showing up as important parts of the story. But boy are they pushing it as being a totem of Han.

Anybody remember from the Leia, Princess of Alderaan novel the specific details where they show her low-key using the Force? Because it's there but sounds like in Ben's case, he powered up right away as a kid and his parents didn't know how to handle it.

Which makes the business of Luke wanting to take him (to cement the family reputation) as an apprentice and them sending him away (decision made behind closed doors) all the more heartbreaking.

So Ben inadvertently broke things around the house with the Force as a kid, which his parents were always discussing behinds closed doors.
Makes you wonder if they ever do go into detail about Rey's alcoholic junk trading parents, that maybe that's part of the reason why they sold her off to Unkar Plutt?

The bit with Luke changing his mind about returning with Rey is weird - because doesn't she extend the saber to him after smacking him around and his body language is that he still declines it? And he orders her straight up to leave the island? Why have him say in the novel that he'd changed his mind? I had thought that him interrupting the Smut Hut was b/c he had sensed that Leia was injured and was coming to inform Rey and tell her she needed to go back because her place was with helping Leia.

Oh Hux and the elevator video, plz JJ don't let that particular detail slide. You know that he's going to be looking for the security footage once the dust settles from the Crait defeat and figure out that Kylo Ren has a secret girlfriend who works for the Restistance.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Riri on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 3:52 pm

@SheLItAFire

Its in the second post from the reddit user
"At the end of the Caretaker deleted scene at the village Luke and Rey dance. She leaves angry though, because Luke tells her the galaxy needs her and not him"

Sorry im not including spoiler tags as I think its ok not to based on previous posts. But happy to change it!

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by SheLitAFire on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:10 pm

I'm having a hard time conceptualizing a dance between Luke and Rey. Seems ooc to me lol
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Night Huntress on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:28 pm

@SheLitAFire wrote:I'm having a hard time conceptualizing a dance between Luke and Rey. Seems ooc to me lol
@SheLitAFire

yeah- I agree. Maybe it's more like a casual / clumsy moving to music. You know, like C-3PO & that Ewok by the end of RofJ Lolilol

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by californiagirl on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:33 pm

THE DICE THOUGH. MY FEELS.

I'll be disappointed if both Solo and Ep. IX don't incorporate those gosh dang golden dice. Along with bunch of other Han parallels. Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by SheLitAFire on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:38 pm

@californiagirl wrote:THE DICE THOUGH. MY FEELS.

I'll be disappointed if both Solo and Ep. IX don't incorporate those gosh dang golden dice. Along with bunch of other Han parallels. Smile
@californiagirl

OMG I know. That last scene with him on Crait is even more powerful, meaningful, and sad now.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by vaderito on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

Just remember, IX will not be based on anything from novelization and deleted scenes. Only TLJ movie. Added novelization scenes and deleted scenes are for hard-core fans, not GA. So toddler Ben, Luke dreaming of Camie, etc are irrelevant. They may make us feel better or worse but they are not essential.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by ZioRen on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 4:55 pm

@californiagirl wrote:THE DICE THOUGH. MY FEELS.

I'll be disappointed if both Solo and Ep. IX don't incorporate those gosh dang golden dice. Along with bunch of other Han parallels. Smile
@californiagirl

We know they're showing up in Solo. They seem to be determined to make the dice a thing. Not that I'm complaining!
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Night Huntress on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 5:02 pm

@vaderito wrote:Just remember, IX will not be based on anything from novelization and deleted scenes. Only TLJ movie. Added novelization scenes and deleted scenes are for hard-core fans, not GA. So toddler Ben, Luke dreaming of Camie, etc are irrelevant. They may make us feel better or worse but they are not essential.
@vaderito

yes, but they give you a better understanding on what the writer/director wanted to tell us.

The novelization of TFA wasn't really good and based on the script - so many things didn't make it into the movie or got changed... and still there were scenes and dialogue in there which helped me personally to see understand the characters and what's going on on a much deeper level.

With TLJ novelization coming so much time after the movie and having Rian involved I don't think they would've kept something in there that would contradict what was maybe happening in IX.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 5:51 pm

@snufkin wrote:Ah incoming fandom freakout from Reddit and the novelization!

@MrsWindu wrote:Forgive me I might have missed this first point and it’s been mentioned - with regards to novelisation

https://dorksideoftheforce.com/2018/02/24/last-jedi-novelization-leaks/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Spoiler:
Han Solo carved a Leia figurine out of Endor wood the night before the Battle of Endor. It is burned during a brief memorial service for Solo before the evacuation of D’Qar.victory.
@MrsWindu

That's a nice touch, but uh

Spoiler:
You'd think Han and Leia were too busy getting it on the night before they could've died for him to have any spare time for whittling.

Otherwise:

Spoiler:
LMAO that Luke tells the Caretakers that Rey is his niece as a cover story. I mean she did come on behalf of his sister. Just that puts the whole business of sneaking around with Luke's shirtless naughty nephew for secret late night tete-a-tetes and handholding sessions in an awkward light.

More with the Dice! I mean, we all know better know to expect that LF does any follow through between details in the books showing up as important parts of the story. But boy are they pushing it as being a totem of Han.

Anybody remember from the Leia, Princess of Alderaan novel the specific details where they show her low-key using the Force? Because it's there but sounds like in Ben's case, he powered up right away as a kid and his parents didn't know how to handle it.

Which makes the business of Luke wanting to take him (to cement the family reputation) as an apprentice and them sending him away (decision made behind closed doors) all the more heartbreaking.

So Ben inadvertently broke things around the house with the Force as a kid, which his parents were always discussing behinds closed doors.
Makes you wonder if they ever do go into detail about Rey's alcoholic junk trading parents, that maybe that's part of the reason why they sold her off to Unkar Plutt?

The bit with Luke changing his mind about returning with Rey is weird - because doesn't she extend the saber to him after smacking him around and his body language is that he still declines it? And he orders her straight up to leave the island? Why have him say in the novel that he'd changed his mind? I had thought that him interrupting the Smut Hut was b/c he had sensed that Leia was injured and was coming to inform Rey and tell her she needed to go back because her place was with helping Leia.

Oh Hux and the elevator video, plz JJ don't let that particular detail slide. You know that he's going to be looking for the security footage once the dust settles from the Crait defeat and figure out that Kylo Ren has a secret girlfriend who works for the Restistance.
@snufkin

TLJ and every single new detail onwards about Han-Kylo makes his death more and more tragic and heartbreaking. They seem to be determined in pushing the Han-Ben parallels all the way and breaking our hearts in the process. What's the point if he isn't redeemed?? It would be in very poor taste and seems cheap IMO if they're just trying to wring every drop of empathy from us if he's doomed to die as the big, bad evil villain. At some point a character becomes too humanised for us to see them that way and Ben Solo definitely crosses that line. Seriously, this is genuinely heartbreaking stuff.

More specifically, on the dice,
Spoiler:
Toddler Ben used to play with it and show it around in adoration of his father.
Other than being unbearably cute, this puts his line "Han Solo... you feel like he's the father you never had. He would have disappointed you" in a new light. It was commonly assumed that this was evidence that Kylo hated Han, but aren't you more likely to be disappointed if you love a person? That's why it's called disappointment: it implies a shattering of expectations; and Ben Solo, it seems, idolised his father.


Last edited by Kylo Rey on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by snufkin on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 6:10 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote: They seem to be determined in pushing the Han-Ben parallels all the way and breaking our hearts in the process. What's the point if he isn't redeemed?? It would be in very poor taste and seems cheap IMO if they're just trying to wring every drop of empathy from us if he's doomed to die as the big, bad evil villain. At some point a character becomes too humanised for us to see them that way and Ben Solo definitely crosses that line. Seriously, this is genuinely heartbreaking stuff.

IMO very poor taste and cheap considering how much it's been mentioned that Lawrence Kasdan wrote the bridge scene with one of his sons. The same son he co-wrote and co-produced Solo with. Or how it was supposedly Harrison Ford's idea to have Ben be named that b/c it's the same name as his oldest son. Which yeah, does put an underlying theme in there about fathers and sons again (SW <3s its daddy issues). But people involved in the production involving their real life relationships as a parent and the outcome is the kid is unsalvagable and dies? That's just really messed up. Same if you've seen the documentary about Carrie Fisher and Debbie Reynolds, Bright Lights. Because that really gets into how they negotiated their relationship given all the travails (Debbie's compulsion to perform/be in the public eye, divorces/bankrupcies, and Carrie's mental health and substance abuse issues) how they were able to finally come to peace/understanding with each other and mend their relationship. It's just really hard for me to think that given those factors, any of the players in telling this story could divorce their own real life experiences with these type of parent-child relationships.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 1:28 am

@Kylo Rey wrote:
More specifically, on the dice,
Spoiler:
Toddler Ben used to play with it and show it around in adoration of his father.
Other than being unbearably cute, this puts his line "Han Solo... you feel like he's the father you never had. He would have disappointed you" in a new light. It was commonly assumed that this was evidence that Kylo hated Han, but aren't you more likely to be disappointed if you love a person? That's why it's called disappointment: it implies a shattering of expectations; and Ben Solo, it seems, idolised his father.
@Kylo Rey

I never thought Ben hated his father- not even before he officially said it in TLJ.

That's why Snoke calls it "such a test". It wouldn't be hard for Kylo/Ben to kill someone he already hated. That's daily business.
The creepy perv wanted him to kill his father because he knew Kylo/Ben still loved him... he thought that would push him ultimately to the dark side. How wrong he was...

And then he wanted him to do the same with Rey... that's why I'm sure Ben deeply cares for her.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 1:52 am

A tweeter user (a Reylo) has started to post the spoilers on her Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/alicatwoo


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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 2:05 am

the fact that Ben would've stopped the missile makes me wonder if he really knew Leia was alive when leading the battle on Crait.
I highly doubt it to be honest. Confus
Maybe the novelization will give us a hint about that? I mean wherever he thought his mother survived that attack on the Raddus.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by ZioRen on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 3:30 am

More spoilers from our nice Twitter Reylo friend! With a heavy dose of "don't touch him, you disgusting shriveled corpse".

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Riri on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 3:39 am

Oh God my heart with the last Ben sentence!

This boy is definitely getting a redemption. He's been humanised way more than Vader ever has. It would go against everything SW is about if he doesn't get a happy ending in 9!

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by cherrylipstick on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 3:54 am

OMG  Cry I'm afraid that it will be a difficult reading for me. So many feelings!
Anyway the book looks promising and interesting so far.

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Darth_Awakened on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 3:57 am



OMG!
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Riri on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 4:06 am

Omg! There were a few Reylos who suspected Ben wanted to be a pilot just like Han and not a Jedi. Sad

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Kessel on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 4:11 am

@Darth_Awakened wrote:

OMG!
@Darth_Awakened

Ben wanting to be a pilot like Han reminds me how in Bloodline it mentioned that Han taught other young people things about flying that he’d wished he could teach his son. Cry

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by ZioRen on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 4:12 am

I wonder if this is still Leia's POV?

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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 4:12 am

@Riri wrote:Omg! There were a few Reylos who suspected Ben wanted to be a pilot just like Han and not a Jedi. Sad
@Riri

Yes, I had the impression he never really wanted to be a Jedi at all.

The novelization seems to be mostly from Rey's perspective - which makes sense since we're experiencing Ben's journey through her eyes.

I wonder if we're getting a novel which is about the whole ST from Ben's POV after IX is released.
That would be awesome! Currently they won't tell us too much from his perspective because it would reveal too much.
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Re: The Last Jedi and the Shakespeare Novelizations

Post by Kessel on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 4:16 am

@ZioRen wrote:I wonder if this is still Leia's POV?

@ZioRen

Wow, that’s so sad! If so, no wonder Kylo was so affected by Rey calling him a monster. It looks like Ben’s Force powers were truly a curse for him. So tragic. There’s no way he’s going to die unredeemed and miserable with that background.

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