The Progression/Development of Reylo

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The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by adamdrivershair on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 1:29 pm

What seems clear to me is that Episode 8 was the development of Rey and Kylo falling in love, so that the meat of their connection has been established and the characters can work forward with that already in place in 9. Aside from an outright declaration of love/kiss, I believe the setting up of the romance is basically done.

If you agree, then what are your thoughts on how this was built? Did it move too quickly? Was it believable? Tbh I didn't think it was, but perhaps I'm not picking up on the subtleties of it? Looking back I noticed:


* Just you" is pretty romantic, especially the way Adam delivered it.

* I hated the "yes, I am" line from Kylo at first, but he looks remorseful after he says it. It really takes Rey aback - it blurs the lines for her on Kylo's morality, that perhaps he sees the world the way she does and regrets what he's done.

* With that in place, she becomes curious about his motivations and wants to learn more about the man behind the monster. The double whammy is that the next time she sees him, he's shirtless - she can't ignore her physical attraction anymore. Luke isn't opening up to her, but Kylo is, both physically and personally, and there's something attractive about that.

* In that scene, he shows Rey his deep understanding of who she is (contrasted with Luke's "who are you?") and what she wants. He offers her guidance, and indirectly opens up about why he killed Han - he, too, felt abandoned, trapped by his past, and believed he had no choice. His emotions become viscerally real for Rey as she experiences the most traumatic moments of Ben's life through his eyes. Unlike the interrogation scene, we see directly what she sees in his mind, showing how powerful this moment is for her. It's very similar to how she feels about her own circumstances, and she sympathizes so deeply that it throws her allegiance to Luke into question.

* Perhaps because she now feels she knows who Ben is at his core, since he's so similar to her, and she doesn't understand who Luke is or his motivations, Ben is the one she turns to after the cave incident. He, also, is the one who prompted her to face her past, so it's natural that she would turn to him in the aftermath.

* After Ben made himself vulnerable to her, she chooses to make herself vulnerable to him. She's recovering alone from something that was deeply disturbing to her, but she feels safe with him. Unlike the other Skype sessions, we aren't shown how this one started, whether it surprised either of them. He is so intrinsic to this scene that he is there before we are even aware that he is, just listening.

* In "You're not alone," he tells her exactly what she needs to hear, nothing more, nothing less - the answer to the question of her loneliness that she has been seeking all her life. He is offering himself, and she realizes that she can offer something back, as he needs the same companionship that she does.

* Rey then decides she needs more than just emotional comfort, she needs physical comfort as well. In contrast to touching the cold, solid wall, she wants to feel something that is real and warm - specifically him. Perhaps part of her knows that his was the physical presence she saw beyond the wall, and she means to reach it this time.

* Admitting that she needs him physically in this moment makes Rey extremely vulnerable, so Kylo responds by removing his glove, opening himself up to her in a way he wouldn't for anyone else, and showing that he understands what she needs in that moment.

* I believe this is her first sexual experience, if you take into account the way the closeup shot of their fingers looks (someone here compared it to "bodies moving together"), and the way she reacts when their skin meets. With the Force theme playing, this is framed as a positive thing - that destiny has brought them together, and this is a healing moment for both of them. Their knowledge of each other in this moment is so deep that it crosses the boundaries of time itself, showing them a future together. This moment convinces Rey that "Ben" is very much alive, and is his true name. And finally, with this promise of hope, Rey sees a way forward in what has so far been a hopeless experience.



And there you have it. Perhaps this was built up better than I thought - though I still have to rationalize my way through it, which frustrates me.

Your opinion? What were key moments for you?
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by SkyStar on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 1:41 pm

That hand touching felt like the first time, I can't forget that impressions, especially how she gasps delicately. And then the fight is like something much more expressive when they are finally comfortable with each other.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 1:43 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:

* After Ben made himself vulnerable to her, she chooses to make herself vulnerable to him. She's recovering alone from something that was deeply disturbing to her, but she feels safe with him. Unlike the other Skype sessions, we aren't shown how this one started, whether it surprised either of them. He is so intrinsic to this scene that he is there before we are even aware that he is, just listening.
@adamdrivershair

I loved everything about their relationship in TLJ. There could have been more Force bond scenes building up to the hut scene, but maybe that's just because I always want MORE of these two. And yes, "just you" sounded romantic to me as well.

I keep wondering if the Force bond is really just spontaneous. Because in THAT scene, it's almost like she ran back to her hut in the hopes of confiding in Kylo. He's sitting there listening so intently with this tender expression on his face. Then he's totally game for (naked) hand touching. Was she able to reach out to him?

Also at the end, it's almost like Kylo searches her out with that last look. Ok, everyone's gone... "Where ARE you?" and then her shutting the Falcon door, literally cuts the connection in that moment. Maybe they get more and more control over it with time.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by IoJovi on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 1:45 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:What seems clear to me is that Episode 8 was the development of Rey and Kylo falling in love, so that the meat of their connection has been established and the characters can work forward with that already in place in 9. Aside from an outright declaration of love/kiss, I believe the setting up of the romance is basically done.

If you agree, then what are your thoughts on how this was built? Did it move too quickly? Was it believable? Tbh I didn't think it was, but perhaps I'm not picking up on the subtleties of it? Looking back I noticed:


* Just you" is pretty romantic, especially the way Adam delivered it.

* I hated the "yes, I am" line from Kylo at first, but he looks remorseful after he says it. It really takes Rey aback - it blurs the lines for her on Kylo's morality, that perhaps he sees the world the way she does and regrets what he's done.

* With that in place, she becomes curious about his motivations and wants to learn more about the man behind the monster. The double whammy is that the next time she sees him, he's shirtless - she can't ignore her physical attraction anymore. Luke isn't opening up to her, but Kylo is, both physically and personally, and there's something attractive about that.

* In that scene, he shows Rey his deep understanding of who she is (contrasted with Luke's "who are you?") and what she wants. He offers her guidance, and indirectly opens up about why he killed Han - he, too, felt abandoned, trapped by his past, and believed he had no choice. His emotions become viscerally real for Rey as she experiences the most traumatic moments of Ben's life through his eyes. Unlike the interrogation scene, we see directly what she sees in his mind, showing how powerful this moment is for her. It's very similar to how she feels about her own circumstances, and she sympathizes so deeply that it throws her allegiance to Luke into question.

* Perhaps because she now feels she knows who Ben is at his core, since he's so similar to her, and she doesn't understand who Luke is or his motivations, Ben is the one she turns to after the cave incident. He, also, is the one who prompted her to face her past, so it's natural that she would turn to him in the aftermath.

* After Ben made himself vulnerable to her, she chooses to make herself vulnerable to him. She's recovering alone from something that was deeply disturbing to her, but she feels safe with him. Unlike the other Skype sessions, we aren't shown how this one started, whether it surprised either of them. He is so intrinsic to this scene that he is there before we are even aware that he is, just listening.

* In "You're not alone," he tells her exactly what she needs to hear, nothing more, nothing less - the answer to the question of her loneliness that she has been seeking all her life. He is offering himself, and she realizes that she can offer something back, as he needs the same companionship that she does.

* Rey then decides she needs more than just emotional comfort, she needs physical comfort as well. In contrast to touching the cold, solid wall, she wants to feel something that is real and warm - specifically him. Perhaps part of her knows that his was the physical presence she saw beyond the wall, and she means to reach it this time.

* Admitting that she needs him physically in this moment makes Rey extremely vulnerable, so Kylo responds by removing his glove, opening himself up to her in a way he wouldn't for anyone else, and showing that he understands what she needs in that moment.

* I believe this is her first sexual experience, if you take into account the way the closeup shot of their fingers looks (someone here compared it to "bodies moving together"), and the way she reacts when their skin meets. With the Force theme playing, this is framed as a positive thing - that destiny has brought them together, and this is a healing moment for both of them. Their knowledge of each other in this moment is so deep that it crosses the boundaries of time itself, showing them a future together. This moment convinces Rey that "Ben" is very much alive, and is his true name. And finally, with this promise of hope, Rey sees a way forward in what has so far been a hopeless experience.



And there you have it. Perhaps this was built up better than I thought - though I still have to rationalize my way through it, which frustrates me.

Your opinion? What were key moments for you?
@adamdrivershair

This is so beautifully put!  Your summary really hammers home the fact these two are meant for each other, and will be the main focus going into IX.  The plot point won't be dropped, just because Rey shut the door on him at the end of TLJ.   Rey staring sadly at the broken saber wondering how she can put it back together at the end tells us so.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Darth_marshmallow on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:08 pm

I think they were both surprised by that connection at the end, especially Rey. If the force itself wants them to connect, I believe the force skype will become more frequent and unpredictable.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by madeinmn on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:23 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@adamdrivershair wrote:What seems clear to me is that Episode 8 was the development of Rey and Kylo falling in love, so that the meat of their connection has been established and the characters can work forward with that already in place in 9. Aside from an outright declaration of love/kiss, I believe the setting up of the romance is basically done.

If you agree, then what are your thoughts on how this was built? Did it move too quickly? Was it believable? Tbh I didn't think it was, but perhaps I'm not picking up on the subtleties of it? Looking back I noticed:


* Just you" is pretty romantic, especially the way Adam delivered it.

* I hated the "yes, I am" line from Kylo at first, but he looks remorseful after he says it. It really takes Rey aback - it blurs the lines for her on Kylo's morality, that perhaps he sees the world the way she does and regrets what he's done.

* With that in place, she becomes curious about his motivations and wants to learn more about the man behind the monster. The double whammy is that the next time she sees him, he's shirtless - she can't ignore her physical attraction anymore. Luke isn't opening up to her, but Kylo is, both physically and personally, and there's something attractive about that.

* In that scene, he shows Rey his deep understanding of who she is (contrasted with Luke's "who are you?") and what she wants. He offers her guidance, and indirectly opens up about why he killed Han - he, too, felt abandoned, trapped by his past, and believed he had no choice. His emotions become viscerally real for Rey as she experiences the most traumatic moments of Ben's life through his eyes. Unlike the interrogation scene, we see directly what she sees in his mind, showing how powerful this moment is for her. It's very similar to how she feels about her own circumstances, and she sympathizes so deeply that it throws her allegiance to Luke into question.

* Perhaps because she now feels she knows who Ben is at his core, since he's so similar to her, and she doesn't understand who Luke is or his motivations, Ben is the one she turns to after the cave incident. He, also, is the one who prompted her to face her past, so it's natural that she would turn to him in the aftermath.

* After Ben made himself vulnerable to her, she chooses to make herself vulnerable to him. She's recovering alone from something that was deeply disturbing to her, but she feels safe with him. Unlike the other Skype sessions, we aren't shown how this one started, whether it surprised either of them. He is so intrinsic to this scene that he is there before we are even aware that he is, just listening.

* In "You're not alone," he tells her exactly what she needs to hear, nothing more, nothing less - the answer to the question of her loneliness that she has been seeking all her life. He is offering himself, and she realizes that she can offer something back, as he needs the same companionship that she does.

* Rey then decides she needs more than just emotional comfort, she needs physical comfort as well. In contrast to touching the cold, solid wall, she wants to feel something that is real and warm - specifically him. Perhaps part of her knows that his was the physical presence she saw beyond the wall, and she means to reach it this time.

* Admitting that she needs him physically in this moment makes Rey extremely vulnerable, so Kylo responds by removing his glove, opening himself up to her in a way he wouldn't for anyone else, and showing that he understands what she needs in that moment.

* I believe this is her first sexual experience, if you take into account the way the closeup shot of their fingers looks (someone here compared it to "bodies moving together"), and the way she reacts when their skin meets. With the Force theme playing, this is framed as a positive thing - that destiny has brought them together, and this is a healing moment for both of them. Their knowledge of each other in this moment is so deep that it crosses the boundaries of time itself, showing them a future together. This moment convinces Rey that "Ben" is very much alive, and is his true name. And finally, with this promise of hope, Rey sees a way forward in what has so far been a hopeless experience.



And there you have it. Perhaps this was built up better than I thought - though I still have to rationalize my way through it, which frustrates me.

Your opinion? What were key moments for you?
@adamdrivershair

This is so beautifully put!  Your summary really hammers home the fact these two are meant for each other, and will be the main focus going into IX.  The plot point won't be dropped, just because Rey shut the door on him at the end of TLJ.   Rey staring sadly at the broken saber wondering how she can put it back together at the end tells us so.
@IoJovi

This^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is what I believe Reylo is all about now. And I am going to just come out and say that I am really glad JJ is coming back for IX. I loved TFA, and as I heard someone say: JJ does "popcorn" and does it very well. I want the sentimental, heart-warming, redemption/love story of all of StarWarsdom!


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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Acritiqua on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:41 pm

Kylo-centric observations

- In the first "Force session" between them, even though Kylo reacts fearfully that she may have shot him, he springs up immediately to follow after her. He is just so... interested. Fascinated. It reminded me a little of a dog following his master (AKA favorite person in the world).

- Kylo isn't angry at Rey for maiming him. He doesn't blame her, he doesn't want revenge. I might guess he is impressed. And it's exciting interacting with this person who challenges him, is on his level.

- There's almost this affection when he sees that look on Rey's face from the forest, when she called him a monster. He's been thinking about her. He... likes... her. He also seems to respond positively to being scolded by her, to her demands, etc.

- Confronting her about how her parents threw her away seems to be his way of saying "you belong with me" ?

- When she speaks he just stares at her, quite closely, and listens to her. Everything she says is important.

- He doesn't ask her to call him Kylo instead of Ben. Whatever she calls him, he accepts.

- Kylo meditates calmly while Snoke "meets" with Rey. He seems to be connecting with the Force. It reminded me of Qui-Gon in TPM meditating as Maul paced before him.

- Kylo winced at one point when Snoke was toying with Rey. It causes pain to watch Snoke hurt her.

- Kylo's eyes open and he glares in Snoke's direction when Snoke reveals he bridged Rey's and Kylo's minds. He is tired of Snoke's manipulations and abuses and the anger probably stretches all the way back to when he was a boy.

- He is looking in her eyes the entire time after Snoke tells him to kill her. There is devotion in this look, a sort of assurance even, an unsaid "I am with you." There isn't any conflict at all when he says, "I know what I have to do."

- When Rey says "Ben" staring back at him it is a demand that he do the right thing. It includes but goes well beyond her own life.

- They fight together as though they are one being. They are strong together.

- Adam Driver said in an interview that Kylo craves respect and therefore has none to give. This ties in well with his terrible proposal of "You come from nothing. You're nothing. But not to me."

- Like Anakin at the end of ROTS, Kylo seems to lose sight of Rey, seeing his vision of power > her. He stops hearing her.

- All his darkness rises in a flurry when he wakes to find her gone. He becomes cold and hard.

- It is painful when she shuts the door.

- Ultimately Kylo did help Rey confront the truth that is her family.

- Rey seems almost like she's puzzling something out before she closes the door. I am not sure Rey is going to choose a simple path in this and just be like "Well, I was wrong. It's clearly hopeless for Kylo Ren." She's learning about the light and the dark and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't even cross her mind to kill Kylo after she awoke in Snoke's throne room. But still there was this feeling of leaving him alone in the dark like shutting out the cold night air.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by teltaru on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:45 pm

I just wish there was another scene leading up to the hand touching. Their relationship went from Rey screaming at him for killing his father to softly spoken assurances in what, and hour or two? It's really scretching credibility for me, but whatever, it's bold and that tells me Rian really wanted to drive the message home. Reylo couldn't be more alive.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by adamdrivershair on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 2:58 pm

@Acritiqua Really interesting thoughts, thank you!

I have to say, I wanted Kylo to be more visibly distressed by Rey being tortured. He looked too composed to me. Before the movie I struggled to picture him watching Rey be tortured without it breaking him in some way. But maybe he's been tortured so much that it's not enough to make him try to kill Snoke right then and there?

@teltaru I know, right? I'm praying for more in the deleted scenes.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Saracene on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:23 pm

I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by ZioRen on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:26 pm

@adamdrivershair wrote:@Acritiqua Really interesting thoughts, thank you!

I have to say, I wanted Kylo to be more visibly distressed by Rey being tortured. He looked too composed to me. Before the movie I struggled to picture him watching Rey be tortured without it breaking him in some way. But maybe he's been tortured so much that it's not enough to make him try to kill Snoke right then and there?

@teltaru I know, right? I'm praying for more in the deleted scenes.

@adamdrivershair
I think for once, Kylo is playing it smart in that scene. He knows he can't just get angry and run at Snoke. We saw exactly how that turned out at the start of the movie: Snoke dispatched him effortlessly. He chose to hold his cards to his chest until he had a shot to actually do something successful.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Saracene on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:36 pm

Kylo's lightsaber trick with Snoke is the proof that men can, in fact, multi-task Wink
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by adamdrivershair on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:38 pm

@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

It's really strange to think about Kylo being so composed, especially in comparison to someone else. Being around Rey really does change him. I wonder what would have happened if she had been there in the elevator during the mask smashing scene.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by ZioRen on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:58 pm

I think Kylo generally tries hard to be composed as part of the mask he wears. He was calm at the start of TFA too. And then when things go wrong, he loses it explosively because he's holding himself in all the time. When I see the fist clenching and the stiff walking and the facial tics, particularly the eye twitch, that Adam gives him, all I see is someone keeping a tight hold on himself at all times. He wants to be that collected, dangerously calm dark sider like Vader.

I do think his particular patience with Rey suggests something else, and it's clear from the start that he likes her in his Kylo way. But I also think he's trying to uphold part of that mask with her too, though, until she offers her own vulnerability to him. Then he can't help but respond in turn.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Acritiqua on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 3:58 pm

I think Rey's presence has a calming effect on Kylo.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by lauvamp on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 4:44 pm

What I love:

- After touching hands their connection became deeper, like two people who share some kind of sentimental attachment for many years. For ex: two (good) friends from childhood who haven't confessed their love yet, or haven't recognised their feelings. Two people who are fond of each other with a connection impossible to erase, no matter if time goes by or bad things happen.

- Mutual forgiveness (let's remember she almost killed him, marked his face / body forever, and always attack first!).

- It's also interesting that she doesn't hesitate to run after him (looking beautiful btw), she knows clearly what to do. But poor boy, he is very confused.

I wonder if they finally understood / recognised the nature of their feelings.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by DeeBee on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 5:41 pm

@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

Sooo glad you mentioned this Saracene! this is something that's been in the back of my mind but I've not commented about..
I agree it was a very deliberate choice to have him being worked on by a droid in that moment, mending his wound..
I don't know if I know what it is meant to signify, but I'll share what struck me about it..
In that moment in the medi-lab, Kylo/Ben is still, quiet.. and very alone.
Even when his wounds are being tended to - he gets no human compassion or tenderness (think Chewie getting all bashful with resistance lady who is healing him Wink or trying to kill Finn on the falcon ha! or finn tenderly retrieving a blanket for Rose and tucking her in). I was really struck by how impersonal it all is that there isn't even a human being involved in Kylo/Ben's medical care. He sits there alone while a machine works on his face/neck in silence. No comfort... No wonder he looks so numb in that moment. [It makes sense he would be fascinated by mysterious Rey's arrival even if she tries to shoot him haaa]

It then struck me that the only times we see Kylo/Ben physically, skin to skin touch someone- are two massive moments for his character:
1) When Han touches Kylo/Ben's cheek tenderly as he dies.
2) When Rey and Kylo touch fingers/hands over their force bond.

Touch and its importance highlights Kylo/Ben's isolation, loneliness and deep need for connection, comfort and love.

I'm hoping for some lip touching in IX Smile
Anyone else been pondering touch?
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 1:52 am

@DeeBee wrote:

I'm hoping for some lip touching in IX Smile
Anyone else been pondering touch?
@DeeBee

Yes, I noticed that too- who knows how long he went without a tender or even just comforting human touch? And it's proven how important that is for humans... I have the impression he even neglects it to himself, always wearing gloves and being covered with so many layers of cloth. He is very emotional and compassionate - and he knows it. So isolating himself is also a kind of safeguard.
That's why I 'm also in the "virgin" camp- not because I want to speculate on his sexuality or past... but because I can't see him engaging in meaningless fake interactions with a female. He isn't like his father in that regard- even toughing someone is a big deal for him. Casual relationships or sex? I can't imagine him being into that. Nope

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by IoJovi on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 9:47 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:

I'm hoping for some lip touching in IX Smile
Anyone else been pondering touch?
@DeeBee

Yes, I noticed that too- who knows how long he went without a tender or even just comforting human touch? And it's proven how important that is for humans... I have the impression he even neglects it to himself, always wearing gloves and being covered with so many layers of cloth. He is very emotional and compassionate - and he knows it. So isolating himself is also a kind of safeguard.
That's why I 'm also in the "virgin" camp- not because I want to speculate on his sexuality or past... but because I can't see him engaging in meaningless fake interactions with a female. He isn't like his father in that regard- even toughing someone is a big deal for him. Casual relationships or sex? I can't imagine him being into that.  Nope

@Night Huntress

That's another reason why I count myself in the Ben is a virgin camp.  He has an aura about him that makes it seem like he's at least dabbled, especially in his scenes with Rey since everything about him is just dripping with sex, which caters to the female gaze.  However, I think this is a facade, just like the mask.  He may or may not be consciously aware of the affect he has on women, but I can't imagine him getting close enough to anyone to touch them, let alone engage in a sexual act.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Tex on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:31 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
I'm hoping for some lip touching in IX Smile
Anyone else been pondering touch?
@DeeBee

Yes, I noticed that too- who knows how long he went without a tender or even just comforting human touch? And it's proven how important that is for humans... I have the impression he even neglects it to himself, always wearing gloves and being covered with so many layers of cloth. He is very emotional and compassionate - and he knows it. So isolating himself is also a kind of safeguard.
That's why I 'm also in the "virgin" camp- not because I want to speculate on his sexuality or past... but because I can't see him engaging in meaningless fake interactions with a female. He isn't like his father in that regard- even toughing someone is a big deal for him. Casual relationships or sex? I can't imagine him being into that.  Nope

@Night Huntress

That's another reason why I count myself in the Ben is a virgin camp.  He has an aura about him that makes it seem like he's at least dabbled, especially in his scenes with Rey since everything about him is just dripping with sex, which caters to the female gaze.  However, I think this is a facade, just like the mask.  He may or may not be consciously aware of the affect he has on women, but I can't imagine him getting close enough to anyone to touch them, let alone engage in a sexual act.
@IoJovi

I use to be in the "he's dabbled" camp, but since seeing TLJ and Adam's and Rian's recent comments on the character it's pretty obvious he's a virgin. It's so heartbreaking how deprived he is of any kind of intimacy. He's completely alone. Sad
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Night Huntress on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:33 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Night Huntress

That's another reason why I count myself in the Ben is a virgin camp.  He has an aura about him that makes it seem like he's at least dabbled, especially in his scenes with Rey since everything about him is just dripping with sex, which caters to the female gaze.  However, I think this is a facade, just like the mask.  He may or may not be consciously aware of the affect he has on women, but I can't imagine him getting close enough to anyone to touch them, let alone engage in a sexual act.
@IoJovi

yes, I agree- but you can have this aura/effect without having experienced the act yourself. It's like charisma - either you have it or you don't. Hard to explain. I think it's because he is dark, dangerous but at the same time vulnerable and... sensual.
But there are times when it's clear he has no idea what he's doing Laughing
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by lauvamp on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 5:20 pm

I think they act like 2 virgins, so pure, innocent, naive! It is sweet to see them like two teenagers who are experiencing these feelings and confusion for the first time.

The elevator scene: Kylo/Ben stays behind, apart of his inner conflict, probably he doesn't know what to do or how to act. He confessed his vision to Rey but only after she approached. I think he definitely found the courage to express his feelings (part of them, or at least, the ones which he understood) after killing Snoke.

On the other hand, what pissed me off was the sentence "I will destroy her" and the door thing made me very sad. It was like "now their pure connection is broken". Again, distance between them.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 6:00 pm

Yeah, saying he will destroy her doesn't really bode well.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Saracene on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 6:20 pm

@Acritiqua wrote:Yeah, saying he will destroy her doesn't really bode well.
@Acritiqua

All bark, no bite Wink
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Acritiqua on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 6:34 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Acritiqua wrote:Yeah, saying he will destroy her doesn't really bode well.
@Acritiqua

All bark, no bite Wink
@Saracene
I really hope so. I hope Kylo just kind of leaves Rey alone until circumstances force them together again. Or if he goes hunting after her it's out of his delusion that he would try to destroy her and then he just acts really awkward. But I also know that probably part of this is a set up for them to fight again because they have to fight again. Perhaps then Kylo will realize that he would rather fight with her than against her.

It really would be great if Kylo could get why Rey would also feel hurt by what happened between them and why she would be disappointed in him. That would take some selflessness for him to understand. And I think he really has to understand this for Reylo to happen in a positive way. She came to him in TLJ, and I really think that he needs to figure out how to at least try to meet her half way, and not out of a desire to force an outcome between them, but out of his feelings for her (caring about what she wants).
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