The Progression/Development of Reylo

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Saracene on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:06 am

I was really confused about the whole vision/parents thing, but after the third watch I'm pretty confident that "Rey I saw who your parents are" is not a separate tangent from Kylo's earlier statements, it's all one block. I think he also backs it up later when he brings up her parents as the main argument; "your parents were trash so just let go and build a new future with me because you have no reason to cling to the past".

I really doubt that Rey saw anything in the Red Room and especially Snoke's death. She was clearly losing her nerve there when she's kneeling before Ben and Snoke urges him to kill her; her soft pleading "Ben?" seemed to indicate that her faith was wavering for a second. If she knew it was all a ruse she wouldn't react that way. Also, I'm not really getting a sense from either of them that they're going, wow this is all happening just as I saw it.

I also couldn't figure out if Kylo knew that killing Rey would be what Snoke would want him to do. Last time they discussed her in TFA it sounded like Snoke was really interested in her powers and was all, bring her to meee. But in TLJ, he just wants to get the location of Luke from her and then it's like, eh my apprentice can kill her now. So maybe Kylo was just playing it by ear the whole time.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lily Snape on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:12 am

@DeeBee wrote:HI all, I've transcribed the elevator scene. here's the dialogue (not beta'd but fairly confident).
R: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart.
Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it.
K (whispering): I saw something too. Because of what I saw I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are.
-elevator doors open-
S-Well done my Good and faithful apprentice!! My faith in you is restored. Young Rey. Welcome.


I think we don't know exactly what they saw! The only specific thing mentioned is that Ben saw who her parents are.
The rest of the dialogue is them sharing what they believe based on what they saw. Big difference Smile
I wasn't thinking they shared the vision.. but they did share the belief that based on each of their visions, they would be together on the same side. What they disagreed on was which side that would be Wink
@DeeBee

She’s right about him not bowing before Snoke, and he’s right about her standing with him.  She says that she feels the shape of his future and that he will: A) not bow before Snoke, and B) turn.  What he says, though, is significantly different:  he says that BECAUSE OF WHAT HE SAW, “I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn.”  He’s interpreting her standing with him as her turning.  Well, it’s not.  

It sounds like she’s a lot more clear on him turning—that she saw the shape of a future in which he had turned to the Light.  What he’s clear on is her standing with him, and he INTERPRETS her taking his side to mean she turns.  He doesn’t realize that he sees her taking the side of Ben Solo, with all the conflict that entails, not Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader of the First Order.

I love how it sounds so similar, and yet it’s not.  Smile


Last edited by Lily Snape on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:14 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:47 am

@Lily Snape wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:HI all, I've transcribed the elevator scene. here's the dialogue (not beta'd but fairly confident).
R: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart.
Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it.
K (whispering): I saw something too. Because of what I saw I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are.
-elevator doors open-
S-Well done my Good and faithful apprentice!! My faith in you is restored. Young Rey. Welcome.


I think we don't know exactly what they saw! The only specific thing mentioned is that Ben saw who her parents are.
The rest of the dialogue is them sharing what they believe based on what they saw. Big difference Smile
I wasn't thinking they shared the vision.. but they did share the belief that based on each of their visions, they would be together on the same side. What they disagreed on was which side that would be Wink
@DeeBee

She’s right about him not bowing before Snoke, and he’s right about her standing with him.  She says that she feels the shape of his future and that he will: A) not bow before Snoke, and B) turn.  What he says, though, is significantly different:  he says that BECAUSE OF WHAT HE SAW, “I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn.”  He’s interpreting her standing with him as her turning.  Well, it’s not.  

It sounds like she’s a lot more clear on him turning—that she saw the shape of a future in which he had turned to the Light.  What he’s clear on is her standing with him, and he INTERPRETS her taking his side to mean she turns.  He doesn’t realize that he sees her taking the side of Ben Solo, with all the conflict that entails, not Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader of the First Order.

I love how it sounds so similar, and yet it’s not.  Smile
@Lily Snape

That's how I interpreted it, too, even if my wording wasn't as clear as yours. Wink

On a related note, I do also think that while she might not have seen the events of the Throne Room in her vision, she did know somehow that Ben would extricate himself from Snoke's hold--hence, the "you will not bow to Snoke." After Kylo kills Snoke, but before the PG attack, Rey and Kylo share a quick glance, and you get a sense that Rey is thinking, "I was right! He didn't bow to Snoke! Now the rest of my vision is going to come true!"
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by lauvamp on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 7:09 am

I wonder if we are gonna finally get the answers about this (at least in the novelisation):

https://twitter.com/roguekylo/status/949440327965868032

I think this is an important point for their relationship development, adding even more depth. It can't be ignored!
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 9:45 am

I think these visions aren’t meant to be interpreted literally and that changing circumstances could make them play out differently than how Rey and Kylo saw them in their heads. Take TFA’s Force vision, for example. Rey sees Kylo jump out at her from behind a tree wearing his mask and holding his saber. He DOES confront her in the forest later on, but maskless and not exactly in the same manner. Also, these visions may never be explained or played out. We were not given an explanation of the scene of Kylo with the KOR surrounded by dead bodies.

The description of the visions we got is so ambiguous and from two different POVs. Did Rey and Kylo see loose visions of them fighting together. Did they see themselves together romantically? Leading some military/government together? It’s all up in the air until Rian answers questions (which I bet he won’t about that) or the novel clarifies, but since the movie overrides in what is “canon,” JJ can use a different interpretation for Episode 9. I guarantee that answers we get from LF employees will only further the “will they or won’t they” speculation in regards to romantic Reylo. But I’m not going to subscribe to any specific headcanon regarding what their visions entailed or alluded to until we get more details. Come on, March! bounce
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Kessel on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 10:03 am

@Saracene wrote:I was really confused about the whole vision/parents thing, but after the third watch I'm pretty confident that "Rey I saw who your parents are" is not a separate tangent from Kylo's earlier statements, it's all one block. I think he also backs it up later when he brings up her parents as the main argument; "your parents were trash so just let go and build a new future with me because you have no reason to cling to the past".

I really doubt that Rey saw anything in the Red Room and especially Snoke's death. She was clearly losing her nerve there when she's kneeling before Ben and Snoke urges him to kill her; her soft pleading "Ben?" seemed to indicate that her faith was wavering for a second. If she knew it was all a ruse she wouldn't react that way. Also, I'm not really getting a sense from either of them that they're going, wow this is all happening just as I saw it.

I also couldn't figure out if Kylo knew that killing Rey would be what Snoke would want him to do. Last time they discussed her in TFA it sounded like Snoke was really interested in her powers and was all, bring her to meee. But in TLJ, he just wants to get the location of Luke from her and then it's like, eh my apprentice can kill her now. So maybe Kylo was just playing it by ear the whole time.
@Saracene

I agree that Kylo's vision was Rey's parents and he assumed this information would make her turn because it meant she was abandoned by them in the worst way possible. He assumed Rey would react like he would to that information, but he was wrong.

Rey's vision is still kind of a mystery, but it affected her rather profoundly based on her reaction and the fact she immediately went to him. I agree she seemed worried when she whispered, "Ben?" which seems to imply that scene wasn't going exactly the way she saw it, otherwise why be fearful at all?

I think Kylo probably suspected it was possible Snoke would have him kill Rey since they knew she was the awakening. He didn't look happy when she arrived all dolled up in her shipping box. In the throne room, when Snoke said he bridged their minds and why he did it, I think Kylo definitely knew Snoke would have him kill Rey. I also think Snoke knew their feelings for each other were genuine because he told Rey he would have her killed "with the cruelest stroke."

I thought it was interesting how Snoke read Rey's mind and he didn't seem impressed at all. He didn't see anything he felt worth keeping her for and he didn't seem to see anything he felt was extraordinarily special.  I don't know if it was just his hubris, but it was fascinating and unexpected.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lamiller1390 on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:53 pm

@ISeeAnIsland
I totally agree that he knew something about her parents before TLJ. I think he picked up, gleaned some information during their interrogation scene together. In the Novelization, as he is searching for the map, something else in her memories makes him diverge from that path, we aren't told what and I think that is actually where her mental wall goes up too. I think through their shared force bond in TLJ he knows, he picks up on the same "path" he began going down during the interrogation. By the time they touch hands the vision may have all but confirmed her parentage to him. But in the end she is the one who says her parents are nobodies... he just makes her confront it finally.

@snufkin
I do hope the novelization will add more detail to the vision they have when they touch hands. They could have easily seen the same thing but from their various perspectives at that point.

@Cowgirlsamurai
That is an incredibly enlightened interpretation of that scene. I had just assumed he'd known she was coming to him, that in some off the camera force session she tells him so... otherwise, why would they all be waiting for her when she comes in. She is... it seems... escorted onto the Supremecy by the screamers (the first order ships). But after reading that I can see where that may not have been the case, that she did just, in fact, show up and they only knew she was there because of the Falcon. It lends credence to and explains Kylos rather quiet and meditative behavior during the entire scene where SNoke is just dragging Rey around. We already saw Kylo try to "Attack" Snoke once and that did not get him very far. So impulse is not the way to go.
Rey was being overly optimistic and naive, Snoke even says as much. Calling her foolish, child, and naive... because she is. But Kylo is calm and collected, able to conceal his true motives from Snoke and then Kill him. Makes me respect him that much more and makes him being in Charge of the first Order that much more Interesting going forward.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Darth Dementor on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:04 pm

@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

I could be wrong but just before it happened Rey was trying to sleep and having trouble doing so. Giving how Kylo pointed out how "she was alone. So desperate to sleep," I don't think it was a coincidence she was thinking about him and then the first Force Skype happened.

And its also interesting to note how even though other force users have communicated telepathically; Obi Wan telling Luke to use the force; Luke reaching out to Leia for help after Vader defeated him; Vader trying to convince Luke to join him after their Besping duel, it was never as in depth as Rey and Ben's, they would just hear voices in their heads. With Reylo they could actually see and touch each other. And their sessions were long, not just a couple sentences but long deep conversations.

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lamiller1390 on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:08 pm

@Darth Dementor

I think there is a theory out there somewhere that suggests that the two had been dreaming about each other for quite some time, long before they ever met. In fact, I believe it is the novelization of TFA that says Rey had been dreaming of Kylo... In the force vision she has, she sees a boy, many speculate that boy is Ben though I am not sure that is confirmed. But I would make sense that she might have been dreaming of him, that she'd always dreamt of him because of the force.

Someone else pointed out that each force skype session happens during moments of peace and downtime for the two. When their guard is down. Waking up from sleep, changing clothes, enjoying the rain, etc... These sessions are made more intimate because they happen at intimate times, private, secluded, and peaceful moments of their respective days.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by snufkin on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:08 pm

@Lamiller1390 - I'm curious, but we may never end up knowing. Or it'll be another tedious social media cycle where fans ask and get told that books aren't the same as movies.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lamiller1390 on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:10 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Lamiller1390 - I'm curious, but we may never end up knowing. Or it'll be another tedious social media cycle where fans ask and get told that books aren't the same as movies.
@snufkin

That is true, but even if it has more detail, more into their thoughts and feelings. I am so curious about their actual inner thoughts during these moments. The last novelization did a decent job of that, in my opinion.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by IoJovi on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:36 pm

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

I could be wrong but just before it happened Rey was trying to sleep and having trouble doing so. Giving how Kylo pointed out how "she was alone. So desperate to sleep," I don't think it was a coincidence she was thinking about him and then the first Force Skype happened.

And its also interesting to note how even though other force users have communicated telepathically; Obi Wan telling Luke to use the force; Luke reaching out to Leia for help after Vader defeated him; Vader trying to convince Luke to join him after their Besping duel, it was never as in depth as Rey and Ben's, they would just hear voices in their heads. With Reylo they could actually see and touch each other. And their sessions were long, not just a couple sentences but long deep conversations.
@Darth Dementor

To summarize, it happens whoever they’re thinking about each other. Could be one or the other, I don’t think it matters. The fact that the first one happened while Kylo’s scar is being worked on is significant. He’s gotta be thinking of her in that moment.

It also lends credence to the fact Snoke did not create the bond, but instead it was forged probably during the Interrogation. I personally think Snoke discovered it and tried to use it to his advantage. Him purposely creating it would be a really dumb thing to do honestly, if he wanted to keep his apprentice under his control. Look what happened as a result!

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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by lauvamp on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:50 pm

The visions are something difficult to analyse, because we don't know how accurate were or not. Were both visions about the Throne scene? Some people think yes, but I didn't get it that way. Was it exposed this way to confuse us?

When Anakin had the visions about his mother and Padme, all came true. Will Reylo's visions also come true in a middle-gray point? TFA novel begins with:

"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray

Through refined Jedi sight."
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lamiller1390 on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:54 pm

@lauvamp wrote:The visions are something difficult to analyse, because we don't know how accurate were or not. Were both visions about the Throne scene? Some people think yes, but I didn't get it that way. Was it exposed this way to confuse us?

When Anakin had the visions about his mother and Padme, all came true. Will Reylo's visions also come true in a middle-gray point? TFA novel begins with:

"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray

Through refined Jedi sight."
@lauvamp

GREY JEDI need to happen. I think that is possible more now more than ever because Rey does not really have a teacher and she has to figure it out with those Jedi Texts. I also think with how easily she essentially embraced the "darkness" within her, she will be able to find that balance of the "grey" and I think this is how she and Kylo can be together... through compromise and not by trying to force the other to their "side"
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by lauvamp on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 4:21 pm

@Lamiller1390

Agree & I hope so!
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 5:39 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth Dementor wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

I could be wrong but just before it happened Rey was trying to sleep and having trouble doing so. Giving how Kylo pointed out how "she was alone. So desperate to sleep," I don't think it was a coincidence she was thinking about him and then the first Force Skype happened.

And its also interesting to note how even though other force users have communicated telepathically; Obi Wan telling Luke to use the force; Luke reaching out to Leia for help after Vader defeated him; Vader trying to convince Luke to join him after their Besping duel, it was never as in depth as Rey and Ben's, they would just hear voices in their heads. With Reylo they could actually see and touch each other. And their sessions were long, not just a couple sentences but long deep conversations.
@Darth Dementor

To summarize, it happens whoever they’re thinking about each other. Could be one or the other, I don’t think it matters. The fact that the first one happened while Kylo’s scar is being worked on is significant. He’s gotta be thinking of her in that moment.

It also lends credence to the fact Snoke did not create the bond, but instead it was forged probably during the Interrogation. I personally think Snoke discovered it and tried to use it to his advantage. Him purposely creating it would be a really dumb thing to do honestly, if he wanted to keep his apprentice under his control. Look what happened as a result!

@IoJovi

That's a really good catch. I'm trying to think if there were hints about one thinking about the other during the other connections. I know that was pretty obviously the case during some of the connections, including the last one.

If they get connected whenever one, the other, or both of them are thinking about each other, that bodes VERY well for the bond being carried forward into IX.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by snufkin on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 5:53 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@IoJovi wrote:
@Darth Dementor wrote:
@Saracene wrote:I loved how their every ForceSkype interaction built on what came before. At first, Rey just wants to shoot him on the spot. Then she rants at him. Then she wants to figure him out (why did you kill your father?). Then she pours her heart out after having a devastating experience.

I think that Kylo's brutal honesty plays a huge part in Rey's turnaround. When she calls him a monster again I think she was expecting him to deny it or justify himself, but instead his fierce and bitter "yes I am" kinda disarms her and makes her want to understand this person.

Also, there's a feeling in their first three interactions of Kylo keeping an upper hand and having the last word by the virtue of him always remaining calm in the face of Rey's emotional outbursts (whoever stays cool controls the conversation). Which is then undone in the hands scene when Kylo finally meets Rey's vulnerability with his own.

Also, I found it interesting that their first contact happens while Kylo's scar, given to him by Rey, is getting mended. It was obviously a very deliberate choice to have him sitting on that contraption, though I'm not sure what it was meant to signify.
@Saracene

I could be wrong but just before it happened Rey was trying to sleep and having trouble doing so. Giving how Kylo pointed out how "she was alone. So desperate to sleep," I don't think it was a coincidence she was thinking about him and then the first Force Skype happened.

And its also interesting to note how even though other force users have communicated telepathically; Obi Wan telling Luke to use the force; Luke reaching out to Leia for help after Vader defeated him; Vader trying to convince Luke to join him after their Besping duel, it was never as in depth as Rey and Ben's, they would just hear voices in their heads. With Reylo they could actually see and touch each other. And their sessions were long, not just a couple sentences but long deep conversations.
@Darth Dementor

To summarize, it happens whoever they’re thinking about each other. Could be one or the other, I don’t think it matters. The fact that the first one happened while Kylo’s scar is being worked on is significant. He’s gotta be thinking of her in that moment.

It also lends credence to the fact Snoke did not create the bond, but instead it was forged probably during the Interrogation. I personally think Snoke discovered it and tried to use it to his advantage. Him purposely creating it would be a really dumb thing to do honestly, if he wanted to keep his apprentice under his control. Look what happened as a result!

@IoJovi

That's a really good catch. I'm trying to think if there were hints about one thinking about the other during the other connections. I know that was pretty obviously the case during some of the connections, including the last one.

If they get connected whenever one, the other, or both of them are thinking about each other, that bodes VERY well for the bond being carried forward into IX.
@ISeeAnIsland

And we got some hint of it, because he says "you have that look in your eyes, from the night in the forest" (Gee Master of the Knights of Ren, why would you happen to be thinking about her eyes and what she said to you in the forest?) and her "do you have a cowl or something you could put on?!" line.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:08 am

Ha! That means he was thinking about her as he was undressing Razz
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by snufkin on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:49 am

@Cowgirlsamurai Um, or he was thinking about her while he in the shower.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 12:54 am

@snufkin

My husband keeps coming up with awkward scenarios for Forcetime, haha. While one of them is showering was the first one he threw out there Laughing
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 1:07 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@snufkin

My husband keeps coming up with awkward scenarios for Forcetime, haha. While one of them is showering was the first one he threw out there Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

I read a smutty one-shot fanfic the other day that was based entirely on this premise.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by DeeBee on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 2:58 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@snufkin

My husband keeps coming up with awkward scenarios for Forcetime, haha. While one of them is showering was the first one he threw out there Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

I read a smutty one-shot fanfic the other day that was based entirely on this premise.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yup! Smile there are many fan fics out there now thinking along those lines..
or interrupting one of them doing something else.. alone.. ahem..
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lamiller1390 on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 3:12 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@snufkin

My husband keeps coming up with awkward scenarios for Forcetime, haha. While one of them is showering was the first one he threw out there Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

I read a smutty one-shot fanfic the other day that was based entirely on this premise.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yup! Smile there are many fan fics out there now thinking along those lines..
or interrupting one of them doing something else.. alone.. ahem..
@DeeBee

PFT hahahaha. Oh jeeze.
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by DeeBee on Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:21 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:HI all, I've transcribed the elevator scene. here's the dialogue (not beta'd but fairly confident).
R: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart.
Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it.
K (whispering): I saw something too. Because of what I saw I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are.
-elevator doors open-
S-Well done my Good and faithful apprentice!! My faith in you is restored. Young Rey. Welcome.


I think we don't know exactly what they saw! The only specific thing mentioned is that Ben saw who her parents are.
The rest of the dialogue is them sharing what they believe based on what they saw. Big difference Smile
I wasn't thinking they shared the vision.. but they did share the belief that based on each of their visions, they would be together on the same side. What they disagreed on was which side that would be Wink
@DeeBee

She’s right about him not bowing before Snoke, and he’s right about her standing with him.  She says that she feels the shape of his future and that he will: A) not bow before Snoke, and B) turn.  What he says, though, is significantly different:  he says that BECAUSE OF WHAT HE SAW, “I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn.”  He’s interpreting her standing with him as her turning.  Well, it’s not.  

It sounds like she’s a lot more clear on him turning—that she saw the shape of a future in which he had turned to the Light.  What he’s clear on is her standing with him, and he INTERPRETS her taking his side to mean she turns.  He doesn’t realize that he sees her taking the side of Ben Solo, with all the conflict that entails, not Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader of the First Order.

I love how it sounds so similar, and yet it’s not.  Smile
@Lily Snape

That's how I interpreted it, too, even if my wording wasn't as clear as yours. Wink

On a related note, I do also think that while she might not have seen the events of the Throne Room in her vision, she did know somehow that Ben would extricate himself from Snoke's hold--hence, the "you will not bow to Snoke." After Kylo kills Snoke, but before the PG attack, Rey and Kylo share a quick glance, and you get a sense that Rey is thinking, "I was right! He didn't bow to Snoke! Now the rest of my vision is going to come true!"
@ISeeAnIsland

Just thought I'd add another little mention of the vision Rey has..
Rey tells Luke after she's knocked him down something..
R: you failed him by thinking his choice was made. It wasn’t. There’s still conflict in him. If he returned from the dark side that could shift the tide. This could be how we win.
L: This is not going to go the way you think!
R: It is. Just now, when we touched hands, I saw his future. As solid as I’m seeing you. If I go to him, Ben Solo will turn.

As solid as I'm seeing you. Interesting...
I think Rey's mistake was maybe in her thinking she knew the timing of Ben's choice to turn Wink but.. at the same time - her intervening to help Ben defeat Snoke will in the long run be instrumental to his turning..
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Re: The Progression/Development of Reylo

Post by Lily Snape on Tue 09 Jan 2018, 12:25 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Lily Snape wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:HI all, I've transcribed the elevator scene. here's the dialogue (not beta'd but fairly confident).
R: You don’t have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It’s tearing you apart.
Ben? When we touched hands I saw the future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You will turn. (whispers) I will help you. I saw it.
K (whispering): I saw something too. Because of what I saw I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn. You’ll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are.
-elevator doors open-
S-Well done my Good and faithful apprentice!! My faith in you is restored. Young Rey. Welcome.


I think we don't know exactly what they saw! The only specific thing mentioned is that Ben saw who her parents are.
The rest of the dialogue is them sharing what they believe based on what they saw. Big difference Smile
I wasn't thinking they shared the vision.. but they did share the belief that based on each of their visions, they would be together on the same side. What they disagreed on was which side that would be Wink
@DeeBee

She’s right about him not bowing before Snoke, and he’s right about her standing with him.  She says that she feels the shape of his future and that he will: A) not bow before Snoke, and B) turn.  What he says, though, is significantly different:  he says that BECAUSE OF WHAT HE SAW, “I know when the moment comes, you’ll be the one to turn.”  He’s interpreting her standing with him as her turning.  Well, it’s not.  

It sounds like she’s a lot more clear on him turning—that she saw the shape of a future in which he had turned to the Light.  What he’s clear on is her standing with him, and he INTERPRETS her taking his side to mean she turns.  He doesn’t realize that he sees her taking the side of Ben Solo, with all the conflict that entails, not Kylo Ren as Supreme Leader of the First Order.

I love how it sounds so similar, and yet it’s not.  Smile
@Lily Snape

That's how I interpreted it, too, even if my wording wasn't as clear as yours. Wink

On a related note, I do also think that while she might not have seen the events of the Throne Room in her vision, she did know somehow that Ben would extricate himself from Snoke's hold--hence, the "you will not bow to Snoke." After Kylo kills Snoke, but before the PG attack, Rey and Kylo share a quick glance, and you get a sense that Rey is thinking, "I was right! He didn't bow to Snoke! Now the rest of my vision is going to come true!"
@ISeeAnIsland

Just thought I'd add another little mention of the vision Rey has..
Rey tells Luke after she's knocked him down something..
R: you failed him by thinking his choice was made. It wasn’t. There’s still conflict in him. If he returned from the dark side that could shift the tide. This could be how we win.
L: This is not going to go the way you think!
R: It is. Just now, when we touched hands, I saw his future. As solid as I’m seeing you. If I go to him, Ben Solo will turn.

As solid as I'm seeing you. Interesting...
I think Rey's mistake was maybe in her thinking she knew the timing of Ben's choice to turn Wink but.. at the same time - her intervening to help Ben defeat Snoke will in the long run be instrumental to his turning..
@DeeBee

I totally agree that it will be instrumental. She believes in the Light in him, that there’s still conflict. She went back for him, so to speak, like Finn went back for her. And yes, he tilted to the Dark side of his conflicted self after she refused to join him and rule together, but the way he looks at her in that last scene—he knows what her faith in him means.
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