Knights of Ren

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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Tue 13 Mar 2018, 5:42 pm

@Ramblingrose

Yes. Here is Hux's POV from TLJ novel.

“ Snoke commanded no legions of Force warriors, as the Jedi once had. No children were plucked from the ranks of the First Order stormtroopers after displaying abilities beyond those of ordinary beings. There was just Snoke, and his loathsome creature Kylo Ren.”

I find it very curious considering what Luke tells Rey and also in the novel we have it made clear Snoke only saw the First Order as an opportunity, not his end goal. As well as what Adam said about the Knights of Ren operating before Ben joined and became Kylo. All of these things make me think there's something more to be said and told about the Knights of Ren.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by DeeBee on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 12:47 am

@BB-Rey - so interesting that the KOR don't even rate a mention.
It may just be that the instructions were don't mention them it's a story yet to be told..

Whether that story will get told in IX or in other media is the question I think.

We don't know at this point if the KOR are even force sensitive. Do we? I'm thinking not but someone please help me out here if you've found this out... It looked like in the force vision they did not carry light sabers - they had other weapons. This suggests they are not force sensitive, but it also doesn't rule out that they are - and they don't use them or we can't see them. lol.

I am ready for whatever IX throws at me with the KOR lol.
A part of me thinks if Kylo/Ben was being manipulated by Snoke for years - part of that would have been to isolate Kylo/Ben - take away all his relationships... For this reason I tend toward the KOR not being friends with Kylo/Ben. The whole point of TLJ was that Kylo/Ben was so alone... and that's why the FB with Rey was so meaningful and powerful.
Could be that they are former students of Luke's who were revealed to be plants and Kylo/Ben had not close ties to them..
Or they could be not related to Luke's academy at all.
Or could be that his academy friends came with him to Snoke - and Snoke had them all killed off - over time or not, a sharp tool that could be wielded against Kylo/ Ben for Snoke's purposes. And further highlights how alone Kylo/Ben became under the Snoke yoke!
Any other options people?

I like the idea of the group of Vader fans hunting for relics - and basically worshiping Kylo/Ben because of his heritage - it plays in nicely with Kylo/Ben's story of being isolated, and related to because of his bloodline.

If we do get living force sensitive KOR, I'd like to see some side with the FO and some side with Kylo/Ben - as it seems this split is likely... I'd like to get to know one or two of them... one of them being friendly and then attempting to betray him could be an interesting story too.. but - we'll see!
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 8:31 am

@DeeBee

We don't fully. Although I think it's fair to assume some of them are considering what Luke told Rey about some of his students leaving with Ben when be became Kylo. So, maybe some of them are and others aren't. It goes with my theory that there's six other 'Masters of the Knights of Ren' and there's other fractions being trained by each master.

I fully agree. I don't think they are loyal to Kylo but to Snoke and if Snoke is truly dead than themselves.

I agree. It also plays into the Acoytles of the Beyond who basically were a non-Force Sensitive cult who worshipped Darth Vader and supposedly want to return his lightsaber they bought to him in death and they had a leader say they're not dangerous. Not yet. They share many parallels with the Knights of Ren of new from what we know. So, it makes me curious.

I think that could be great. As that would create much tension with Hux who only thought Kylo was the only one and it would also be very interesting to than have them betray him. Sort of to mirror the Clones betraying the Jedi but a reversal. Very poetic.



Last edited by BB-Rey on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by DeeBee on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 8:27 pm

@BB-Rey wrote:@DeeBee

We don't fully. Although I think it's far to assume some of them are considering what Luke told Rey about some of his students leaving with Ben when be became Kylo. So, maybe some of them are and others aren't. It goes with my theory that there's six other 'Masters of the Knights of Ren' and there's other fractions being trained by each master.

I fully agree. I don't think they are loyal to Kylo but to Snoke and if Snoke is truly dead than themselves.

I agree. It also plays into the Acoytles of the Beyond who basically were a non-Force Sensitive cult who worshipped Darth Vader and supposedly want to return his lightsaber they bought to him in death and they had a leader say they're not dangerous. Not yet. They share many parallels with the Knights of Ren of new from what we know. So, it makes me curious.

I think that could be great. As that would create much tension with Hux who only thought Kylo was the only one and it would also be very interesting to than have them betray him. Sort of to mirror the Clones betraying the Jedi but a reversal. Very poetic.

@BB-Rey

Hiya BB-Rey, thanks for the confirmation! These Acolytes of the beyond sound really interesting! Especially as they tie back into the whole Anakin/Darth Vader back story/heritage that is going to likely draw to a conclusion in IX.

Regarding the bolded - Whooo a poetic reversal? I like!
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 9:25 pm

@DeeBee

Hi. It's my pleasure. Smile I absolutely agree. They were defintely one of the most interesting aspects of Aftermath. The other of course is the secrets of Jakku. Here's a link to the Wookieepedia entry on the Acoytles.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Acolytes_of_the_Beyond

Me too! I love any and all poetry in Star Wars.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by Apriljandy on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 12:41 am

I think the KOR are really Luke's students that went with Ben after Luke's betrayal. They pledged their allegiance to Snoke but maybe Snoke saw in a vision that they would turn against him with Ben as their leader. So Snoke banished or exiled all of them leaving Ben alone and isolated once more.

My prediction in episode IX, Ben's first agenda as Supreme Leader is to find his missing friends. Some have died but some survived, and maybe one of them stumbled across Rey.

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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by Teo oswald on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 5:47 am

I really hope that JJ will tell us more about them, however the first time I heard about the knights of Ren, I immediately thought of the knights of the round table.
In the last Jedi there was not even a hint of them and I did not like that, a minimum of continuity had to do RJ.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Sat 31 Mar 2018, 10:38 am

@Teo oswald

I think the hint could be the students leaving with Ben when he became Kylo. The only question is where are they now, especially considering Kylo was really alone until he started connecting more personally with Rey. So, are they loyal to Kylo anymore? I hope Episode IX addresses them as I know J.J. is very fond of them as he wanted a spinoff movie about them, so I think there's some kind of story there that's worth telling.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by DeeBee on Fri 06 Apr 2018, 11:33 pm

@BB-Rey wrote:@Ramblingrose

Yes. Here is Hux's POV from TLJ novel.

“ Snoke commanded no legions of Force warriors, as the Jedi once had. No children were plucked from the ranks of the First Order stormtroopers after displaying abilities beyond those of ordinary beings. There was just Snoke, and his loathsome creature Kylo Ren.”

I find it very curious considering what Luke tells Rey and also in the novel we have it made clear Snoke only saw the First Order as an opportunity, not his end goal. As well as what Adam said about the Knights of Ren operating before Ben joined and became Kylo. All of these things make me think there's something more to be said and told about the Knights of Ren.
@BB-Rey

BB-Rey, I just read this part of the novelisation (I'm way behind!) so came to this thread to see what others had made of it! I was glad to find your comment Smile It seems Hux thinks the only two force users in the FO are Snoke and Kylo. I think he would count the KoR as part of the FO.

Maybe Hux is wrong, but this comment along with the lack of lightsabers in Rey's force vision- are two clues that the KOR are not force users themselves.
but.. I do think there can still be hidden force users in the galaxy who could make an appearance - just like some managed to survive order 66.
Even without the KOR as force users, I don't doubt we'll get at least one fabulous lightsaber battle in IX.
I think there is more to learn about the KOR too - even if they are not force users, but I am open to them being explored in the supplementary media. I can see the KOR comics now! lol.
I can totally get on board with at least some of the KOR being Luke's former students - (if they are force users) but I see Snoke as wanting to control Kylo, and isolate him- Having Kylo cut all ties with anyone from his past helps keep him unstable. So I'm leaning toward them not being Luke's former students..

The comments about Snoke and his goals are super interesting BB-Rey! I'll see what others have been saying about him in the Snoke thread and (eventually) discuss it there.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Sat 07 Apr 2018, 9:43 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@BB-Rey wrote:@Ramblingrose

Yes. Here is Hux's POV from TLJ novel.

“ Snoke commanded no legions of Force warriors, as the Jedi once had. No children were plucked from the ranks of the First Order stormtroopers after displaying abilities beyond those of ordinary beings. There was just Snoke, and his loathsome creature Kylo Ren.”

I find it very curious considering what Luke tells Rey and also in the novel we have it made clear Snoke only saw the First Order as an opportunity, not his end goal. As well as what Adam said about the Knights of Ren operating before Ben joined and became Kylo. All of these things make me think there's something more to be said and told about the Knights of Ren.
@BB-Rey

BB-Rey, I just read this part of the novelisation (I'm way behind!) so came to this thread to see what others had made of it! I was glad to find your comment Smile It seems Hux thinks the only two force users in the FO are Snoke and Kylo. I think he would count the KoR as part of the FO.  

Maybe Hux is wrong, but this comment along with the lack of lightsabers in Rey's force vision- are two clues that the KOR are not force users themselves.
but.. I do think there can still be hidden force users in the galaxy who could make an appearance - just like some managed to survive order 66.
Even without the KOR as force users, I don't doubt we'll get at least one fabulous lightsaber battle in IX.
I think there is more to learn about the KOR too - even if they are not force users, but I am open to them being explored in the supplementary media. I can see the KOR comics now! lol.
I can totally get on board with at least some of the KOR being Luke's former students - (if they are force users) but I see Snoke as wanting to control Kylo, and isolate him- Having Kylo cut all ties with anyone from his past helps keep him unstable. So I'm leaning toward them not being Luke's former students..

The comments about Snoke and his goals are super interesting BB-Rey!  I'll see what others have been saying about him in the Snoke thread and (eventually) discuss it there.
@DeeBee

Yes to the comic book. lol

That's very interesting. I remember the Acoytles of the Beyond from Aftermath weren't Force Sensitive. It would be kind of cool to me I think in a way if Hux didn't know and for that matter the other Knights of Ren we've seen so far are Masters just like Kylo who have in secret been training different fractions while keeping this from Kylo. Only Snoke knew/knows and it's only revealed they've been hunting down Force Sensitives. It could be why Snoke told Kylo that he has never faced such a test until that moment. So, that could be where the others could come in at the dismay of Hux and then have them betray the First Order and Kylo to reveal themselves as a much larger fraction which could open doors for the First Order and Resistance joining forces and where Finn rallying the stormtroopers comes in and Rey and Kylo coming together. So, I would lean the Masters being Luke's former students but the yet revealed members being individuals from throughout the galaxy. I think they'd be training in the Unknown Regions.

At the same time though with how isolated Kylo is I really wonder about the Knights of Ren and how they can play into the larger story. I come back to them being larger mainly because of the notion the story coming full circle in Episode IX. Episode I has the Naboo and Gungans joining up against the Trade Federation, Episode VI has the Rebel Alliance and Ewoks join forces against the Empire, and now I think to bring it fully around is the First Order and Resistance (Possibly a few Jedi depending on the timejump) against the Knights of Ren and different creatures. Something tells me we'll have a story that will unify everything. We shall see, we shall see.

They are! I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts there. Smile
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by BB-Rey on Thu 17 May 2018, 3:15 pm

I was reading about the Knights of Ren and trying to place their purpose and remembered something very curious, Ren means Lotus and what also means Lotus in the context of Star Wars? Padme. It makes me wonder if they adopted this name when Ben became Kylo. Especially if they're one of the same with the Acoytles of the Beyond, whom they share many parallels with. Which also goes with why Snoke referred to Kylo as their Master. They're a cell within a greater order, which could explain the other clan we see in Rey's Vision. Just an interesting carrot i was reminded of and thought I should share with a bit of speculation.
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Knights of Ren and Rey's forceback

Post by DeeBee on Sat 14 Jul 2018, 5:19 am

Hiya! I wasn't on this forum until a year after TFA was released.. so maybe this was discussed ages ago..
I came across TFA comic adaptation (which is canon), and was especially interested to see how Rey's force vision was presented.
I'm playing around with an idea.. would be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on this.
The moment with Kylo/Ben and the Knights of Ren really caught my eye!

It was always hard to see with the dark and the rain.. but it is bodies they are surrounded by - not rocks. How interesting.
this reminds me of this moment in TLJ:

I wonder if this moment in the vision is a flashback to the slaughter of the Jedi students who didn't leave with Kylo/Ben. And Kylo/Ben is surrounded by the students who did leave with him: who eventually became the Knights of Ren.
The fact that they would not have been dressed like that at the time I think doesn't matter - because it is representational of who they became. Just like Rey's vision of running into Kylo/Ben in the snow in the woods had him in his mask, but when it actually transpired he wasn't wearing the mask.
From TFA comic adaptation we see this part of the vision here:

So, in the visions, they just represents who he and the other students had become in that moment - the identifies they had taken on.

When Kylo/Ben seems to see Rey witnessing him in this vision, I think this could be telling us that - back at the Jedi Academy that night, Kylo/Ben had his own force vision of his future, and he saw Rey, having no idea who she was.
When Rey finally has her vision of Kylo/Ben - maybe... in some other kind of cosmic force fourth dimension (the cosmic force is timeless),  the two moments seem to merge into one. Hmm. I wonder if that is when their connection started?.. fun to ponder, though I doubt I'll ever get a definitive answer on this one.

One final quirky finding related to this force vision. In Luke's biography gallery on starwars.com, there are two slides one after the other - which are almost identical in wording,covering the same content, but are accompanied by a different image. What were the images? Glad you asked tee hee.. here goes:
1)

2)

Again - both these moments - the destruction of the Jedi Academy and Rey's vision of Kylo/Ben surrounded by the KOR seem to be linked..
co-incidence? Weird huh! In all my wanderings around the databank, this is the only time I've ever seen this.
I hope in IX we will find out some answers about Rey's TFA vision, and TLJ visions too! sunny
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by LadyGaufrette on Tue 31 Jul 2018, 10:54 am

Image too big:


I have found these information on the knights of Ren in a french magazine with Star Wars busts.
Translation (don't hesitate to tell me if I made a mistake):

Born several decades after the end of the Galactic Civil War, the knights of Ren were a group devoted to the darkside working under the Supreme Leader Snoke, from the First Order (a remnant of the Empire after its fall). The name of this organisation comes directly from their leader, Kylo Ren, named master and leader of the knights by Snoke. Observing the fall of the Jedi and Sith Orders, Snoke had the idea to create an organisation in his service by using the best from the old enemy warriors: on one hand, the power of the darkside of the Force, on the other hand the structured and faithfull angle of the Jedi.
In the same way the First Order was a reminiscence of the Empire, the helmets used by the knights of Ren were directly inspired by Darth Vader's, particularly the one worn by Kylo Ren. The knights were not part of the formal hierarchy of the First Order. They operated with freedom among the military command, who tolerated their presence with some hesitation as their agenda often trumped their own.

I put in bold information I had never seen anywhere else. The last paragraph is a rephrasing of Kylo's descritpion in The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by DeeBee on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 4:12 am

@LadyGaufrette wrote:
Image too big:


I have found these information on the knights of Ren in a french magazine with Star Wars busts.
Translation (don't hesitate to tell me if I made a mistake):

Born several decades after the end of the Galactic Civil War, the knights of Ren were a group devoted to the darkside working under the Supreme Leader Snoke, from the First Order (a remnant of the Empire after its fall). The name of this organisation comes directly from their leader, Kylo Ren, named master and leader of the knights by Snoke. Observing the fall of the Jedi and Sith Orders, Snoke had the idea to create an organisation in his service by using the best from the old enemy warriors: on one hand, the power of the darkside of the Force, on the other hand the structured and faithfull angle of the Jedi.
In the same way the First Order was a reminiscence of the Empire, the helmets used by the knights of Ren were directly inspired by Darth Vader's, particularly the one worn by Kylo Ren. The knights were not part of the formal hierarchy of the First Order. They operated with freedom among the military command, who tolerated their presence with some hesitation as their agenda often trumped their own.

I put in bold information I had never seen anywhere else. The last paragraph is a rephrasing of Kylo's descritpion in The Force Awakens: The Visual Dictionary
@LadyGaufrette

Salut LadyGaufrette! Thanks for sharing this, and thanks for taking the time to translate it for us all!
Very interesting.. I wonder if this magazine is 'canon'. Is it a star wars magazine?
I'm not saying it's wrong but for me, I would hold off including it in what is known until I better understand the source.

There was talk earlier up in this thread about Kylo Ren starting the Knights of Ren- it being published in a book but then being corrected by Pablo Hidalgo by tweet - so I wonder if this article is a result of that confusion around the misprint. Found it! Here is the exchange on page 1:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@panki wrote:In The Star Wars:The Force Awakens, The Official Dictionary, it is mentioned that "Rey is bombarded with force related sounds such as the voices of Mater Yoda and Obi-wan Kenobi and visions of the fearsome knights of Ren, led by Kylo Ren, who founded the order after falling from the light."

If the order was created by Kylo Ren, it is possible that the other knights are Luke's former students. I remember reading somewhere about the order being an old one...maybe Kylo re-established an ancient but defunct order of dark side followers.
@panki
I believe PH debunked that, saying that it was a continuity error in that book, and that Kylo did NOT found the KOR...
@ISeeAnIsland
-does anyone have a copy of that Pablo Hidalgo tweet?

We shall see. I think it would be fun to have the KOR in IX, and be force sensitive.. but I have no idea if they'll go there in IX. I do think though that there is a fun story to tell here in other media if not IX.
If the KOR didn't start in when Ben Solo became Kylo Ren - we could, for example, see the KOR show up (even briefly) in the tv series 'resistance' that could be cool. I can't wait to see where the KOR pop up eventually ha!

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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by LadyGaufrette on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 5:17 am

@DeeBee wrote:
I wonder if this magazine is 'canon'. Is it a star wars magazine?
I'm not saying it's wrong but for me, I would hold off including it in what is known until I better understand the source.

@DeeBee

Hello there DeeBee!
I am not really sure if it's canon or not, but is it really important? By that I mean, if it's not canon, I don't think they will themself make up this kind of information. But what I want to find is the source of any info they put there, because if they didn't write it they must have found it somewhere else. I thought maybe someone on the forum could tell me if they saw it elswhere.

@DeeBee wrote:
We shall see. I think it would be fun to have the KOR in IX, and be force sensitive.. but I have no idea if they'll go there in IX. I do think though that there is a fun story to tell here in other media if not IX.
If the KOR didn't start in when Ben Solo became Kylo Ren - we could, for example, see the KOR show up (even briefly) in the tv series 'resistance' that could be cool. I can't wait to see where the KOR pop up eventually ha!

@DeeBee

I confess I am totally believing the KOR are Kylo's friends from Luke's Academy. I have this image from the concept arts of a biker gang roaming through the galaxy. What better bond than burning your school together? lol!
i think we will see a glimpse of the KOR in Resistance, it's just a few year before TFA so it's possible. The best media for them will be a comic so we could know them better and see their design (not possible with a novel), and I don't think they could be interesting on their own in a TV serie centered around them.
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Re: Knights of Ren

Post by DeeBee on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 5:39 am

@LadyGaufrette wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
I wonder if this magazine is 'canon'. Is it a star wars magazine?
I'm not saying it's wrong but for me, I would hold off including it in what is known until I better understand the source.

@DeeBee

Hello there DeeBee!
I am not really sure if it's canon or not, but is it really important? By that I mean, if it's not canon, I don't think they will themself make up this kind of information. But what I want to find is the source of any info they put there, because if they didn't write it they must have found it somewhere else. I thought maybe someone on the forum could tell me if they saw it elswhere.
@LadyGaufrette

My answer is - I would never tell someone what is important. I figure this is up to the individual to decide. For me, if something is not canon, I don't consider it as reliable as something which is canon. This doesn't mean I will discount it, but I file it away as a 'maybe'.
I'll be interested to see if anyone can respond to your query.

@LadyGaufrette wrote: I confess I am totally believing the KOR are Kylo's friends from Luke's Academy. I have this image from the concept arts of a biker gang roaming through the galaxy. What better bond than burning your school together? lol!
i think we will see a glimpse of the KOR in Resistance, it's just a few year before TFA so it's possible. The best media for them will be a comic so we could know them better and see their design (not possible with a novel), and I don't think they could be interesting on their own in a TV serie centered around them.
@LadyGaufrette
yeah it seems to fit that they are from the Academy. I like to try to keep my mind open and not draw one conclusion (though I know I can never perfectly do this!). If I keep my mind open, I will be open to seeing possiblities. Of course, I totally fail to keep an open mind about Reylo and Bendemption - they are totally going to happen. Haaa... but other than this I'm open to anything!

lol biker gang I love it!
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