TLJ ideology discussion

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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Ynqve on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 5:17 am

@DeeBee

I agree SW has always been somewhat political, but they've kept themselves to very safe subjects (democracy good, slavery bad). I love that the ST trilogy is taking some risks, from making the universe more diverse (about time!) to TLJ's very clear points on arms dealing, war, social class and animal cruelty. I also don't think that they're going to abandon their traditional messages about democracy and freedom because of global audiences. I can't see that happening at all, SW is still a western story made by western storytellers. With that said, I really don't think that they'll end the ST with the Republic 3.0. They've done that before, it's the least interesting ending. I think they'll end with the individual star systems gaining independence.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 7:00 am

One of my favorite moments of the movie was DJ basically telling Finn and Rose that both sides (Resistance and FO) are responsible for filling the pockets of all the rich idiots in Canto Bight. I really liked it as a critique of how war is basically a business and even the "good guys" are actively supporting it. They're really not that different from the "bad guys", they just spin the discourse and flourish it with buzzwords like "hope".

It reminded me of a song by M.I.A. (I love her) called Borders where she basically talks about the borders people set up between each other -- as individuals, political groups etc. She also juxtaposes mantras of the millenial generation ("slay", "love wins", "being bae", "killing it") with current political events and institutions, showing how the Peace & Love discourse is shallow as hell when you're actively being part of the system you claim to be against.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Night Huntress on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:14 am

@Piper Maru wrote:One of my favorite moments of the movie was DJ basically telling Finn and Rose that both sides (Resistance and FO) are responsible for filling the pockets of all the rich idiots in Canto Bight. I really liked it as a critique of how war is basically a business and even the "good guys" are actively supporting it. They're really not that different from the "bad guys", they just spin the discourse and flourish it with buzzwords like "hope".
@Piper Maru

Yeah, I loved that too- but I hear many complains Star Wars shouldn't be political... Rolling Eyes - but what did those guys think the WAR in Star Wars is about ?
And the reason they included Canto Bight was in my Opinion to show a bit of what's going on outside the warfront between FO and resistance.

That moment were DJ shows them both sides buying from the same arms dealer reminded me of the movie "Lord of War" with Nicholas Cage...that's such a good movie. And sadly that's really how it works. War is all business.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Darth_Awakened on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:33 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Piper Maru wrote:One of my favorite moments of the movie was DJ basically telling Finn and Rose that both sides (Resistance and FO) are responsible for filling the pockets of all the rich idiots in Canto Bight. I really liked it as a critique of how war is basically a business and even the "good guys" are actively supporting it. They're really not that different from the "bad guys", they just spin the discourse and flourish it with buzzwords like "hope".
@Piper Maru

Yeah, I loved that too- but I hear many complains Star Wars shouldn't be political... Rolling Eyes - but what did those guys think the WAR in Star Wars is about ?
And the reason they included Canto Bight was in my Opinion to show a bit of what's going on outside the warfront between FO and resistance.

That moment were DJ shows them both sides buying from the same arms dealer reminded me of the movie "Lord of War" with Nicholas Cage...that's such a good movie. And sadly that's really how it works. War is all business.
@Night Huntress

SW was always about the politics and the ideology. From the beginning.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by DeeBee on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 6:09 pm

@Ynqve – yes if they don’t go for upholding the values of liberty and democracy here.. what would be the alternative? I guess to just avoid labelling it such?
I tend to agree – as you put it so well, Republic 3.0 would feel like rinse, wash repeat!
Democracy with a different structure could be an alternative ending… Yes ‘individual star systems gaining independence’ could be great!

@Piper Maru – yes the $$ aspect was fascinating and a new aspect to SW. It adds to that whole sense that war is cyclical and inevitable – especially when there is a profit to be made from it.

@Night Huntress & @ Darth_Awakened - lol yes so true. Of course star wars is political!
Can you believe the head of Disney is trying to say it isn’t?!

I think sometimes for an audience the politics is so deeply ingrained that they just don't see it.
Like: Of course the movie values democracy and fights for it.. but it isn't political! - Ummmmm...
Not everywhere in the world believes democracy is the best way to govern. So yes SW holding it up as the ideal is political.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by thescavenger on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:50 am

Not sure if this is the best place to ask this question, but I wonder what the general political state of the galaxy is currently after the destruction of the Hosnian system and the Republic. Is it in anarchy or under the control of the First Order? TLJ sort of moved away from the aftermath of that and only concentrated on Resistance v. FO, so we barely know what happened. I guess Canto Bight is still unconcerned, so that's a clue.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Riri on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 4:31 am

@thescavenger

There was a line in the movie where Rey said to Luke "The First Order will be in control of all major systems in weeks" so from that we can gather they'll be a pretty much in control when Ep9 rolls in.

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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 4:57 am

@thescavenger
in fact it seems that the FO has a monopoly on everything , now that the republic is gone there are no laws, there is absolute anarchy
we are at war.
it is probable that many systems will rebel against the Fo , now there is a new jedi, the light shines
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by SheLitAFire on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 8:49 am

@Teo oswald wrote:@thescavenger
in fact it seems that the FO has a monopoly on everything , now that the republic is gone there are no laws, there is absolute anarchy
we are at war.
it is probable that many systems will rebel against the Fo , now there is a new jedi, the light shines
@Teo oswald

I feel like the FO would have a ton of laws they're implementing to control the galaxy, based on the similarities between this fictional example and real life historical examples of similar governments. We just don't see the effects on the galaxy that much in the movies since we're so tied to just a few characters' experiences.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by guardienne on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 1:07 pm



we have an official video! (no i'm not lindsay ellis, but i sooo wish i was)

i have many favourite things about this video, my favourite favourite is that it tries to put fascism in perspective, or sees how a movement without real definition basically has very strong iconography.

i wonder where they will take this in the next movie, if they take it anywhere at all.
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by californiagirl on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:02 pm

@guardienne wrote:

we have an official video! (no i'm not lindsay ellis, but i sooo wish i was)

i have many favourite things about this video, my favourite favourite is that it tries to put fascism in perspective, or sees how a movement without real definition basically has very strong iconography.

i wonder where they will take this in the next movie, if they take it anywhere at all.
@guardienne

Yes, Lindsay is one of my favorite people on YT. She actually dislikes most of YT because it's sort of an anti-intellectual clickbait dumpster fire, especially in regards to SW. It's her first video on SW too. This actually got posted on another thread a few days ago while it was still unlisted, probably for her Patreon supporters who see her videos early.

I had been a little worried her incredibly sensitive kneejerk Twitter reactions after TLJ regarding Kylo as Supreme Leader would cloud her vision of these the ST and this character. But then she said she was doing a TLJ video, and I know she always does her research and puts herself together well, and never rants and rages over anything, so I actually became more confident in whatever it was she planned to do. She's honestly just gotten better over her 10 years on YT (even if I still have a fondness for her old Nostalgia Chick videos).

I'm almost certain she will do another SW video post-IX. In which she will inevitably address Reylo. Smile
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Re: TLJ ideology discussion

Post by guardienne on Thu 07 Jun 2018, 9:49 am

@californiagirl

i love her very much and she did well not getting into the particular dumpster fire of what TLJ is.

i really don't actually know what there is to address about reylo. are people just being hysterical, i guess. but narratively i think we are in much the same grounds as post-TFA, will they, won't they yadayada. kylo ren's got more might to pursue her now, she's reluctant to give in.

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