The Last Jedi General Discussion

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Post by SoloSideCousin on Mon 13 Nov - 3:14

Here's a really awesome Reddit post discussing Rey and Ren's "shadows" in the Jungian, as interpreted by Robert Bly. Rian has said that both Jung and Robert Bly were huge influences on him for the writing of TLJ.

https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/comments/7cif2a/i_will_follow_you_into_the_dark_eating_shadows/
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 13 Nov - 5:32

One month left before TLJ comes to theaters in my country Very Happy
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Post by Forsythia on Mon 13 Nov - 9:35

@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:Guys! Guys!
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We were wrong all along!
https://unapologeticreylotrash.tumblr.com/post/167415651670/rey-would-never-ask-kylo-for-help-and-to-show-her

Actually, Kylo is giving his hand to Phasma!
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lol!  lol!  lol!
@reylo1992

They have to just be trolling or something. No one is that ridiculous. No one.

Right?

Crickets....

I mourn for the future.
@PalmettoBlue

Wait, I just listened to MSW last podcast, Jason thinks Kylo is reaching out to Luke in a gesture of peace  lol!
@spacebaby45678

Antis are so desperately grasping at straws now. They've practically suggested every character for Kylo's offered hand except Rey. They are so afraid of Reylo they don't even want to consider that Kylo could be offering his hand to his cousin/sister Very Happy
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 13 Nov - 9:55

@Forsythia wrote:
@spacebaby45678 wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:
@reylo1992 wrote:Guys! Guys!
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Shocke11

We were wrong all along!
https://unapologeticreylotrash.tumblr.com/post/167415651670/rey-would-never-ask-kylo-for-help-and-to-show-her

Actually, Kylo is giving his hand to Phasma!
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Giphy20
lol!  lol!  lol!
@reylo1992

They have to just be trolling or something. No one is that ridiculous. No one.

Right?

Crickets....

I mourn for the future.
@PalmettoBlue

Wait, I just listened to MSW last podcast, Jason thinks Kylo is reaching out to Luke in a gesture of peace  lol!
@spacebaby45678

Antis are so desperately grasping at straws now. They've practically suggested every character for Kylo's offered hand except Rey. They are so afraid of Reylo they don't even want to consider that Kylo could be offering his hand to his cousin/sister Very Happy
@Forsythia

Antis: "Because I don't want Daaiiisy to make any sort of pack with that monstahhhh Kilo Rin"
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lol! lol! lol!

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Post by Night Huntress on Mon 13 Nov - 14:22

I hope to see Rey's hair more down (and a bit styled) in the future - we always swoon about Kylo's hair (for good reason  I love you  )... but Daisy has beautiful hair as well. We just don't get to see it in TFA or the TLJ (as far as we know) because she wears it in buns or it's wet/disheveled whatever.

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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 13 Nov - 14:37

@Night Huntress wrote:I hope to see Rey's hair more down (and a bit styled) in the future - we always swoon about Kylo's hair (for good reason  I love you  )... but Daisy has beautiful hair as well. We just don't get to see it in TFA or the TLJ (as far as we know) because she wears it in buns or it's wet/disheveled whatever.

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@Night Huntress

Let's be optimistic Smile If we get happy ending with Reylo wedding in Episode 9, I am persuaded her hairstyle will be a little more sophisticated. At least as much sophisticated as Leia's down hairstyle on in ROTJ I suppose.
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 13 Nov - 14:53

@reylo1992

Speaking of happy endings.

I sooo want a happy ending for them because like others I am a romantic soul. It would thematically fit with PT and OT being bitter and bittersweet with conflicts still going on. If the whole campaign about the balance between them is correct. There can be no light without darkness and no darkness without light. It's just that if we don't get it, I'd be majorly dissapointed. I'm so invested in Star Wars thanks to Kylo, Rey and Reylo. I'm invested in other stories such as Game of Thrones, HP, LOTR, MCU etc. But not that extent, or at least on par with Game of Thrones. Like @Saracene nicely said, I rather have no expectations because headcanons are always more colorful and better all around. Wedding, little Reylo babies and balance finally achieved.

My sister has her ending in her mind. With Kylo and Rey both living and would have to be separated, because Force would want it, like together they are too strong and balance has to be ahcieved when they have to be separate. Price to pay for this. I don't agree with it but hey everyone can have their headcanons.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Mon 13 Nov - 15:21

Headcanons= wishes? Because I know what I want to happen vs. what I think will actually happen Smile
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 13 Nov - 15:23

@DarthRen wrote:@reylo1992

Speaking of happy endings.

I sooo want a happy ending for them because like others I am a romantic soul. It would thematically fit with PT and OT being bitter and bittersweet with conflicts still going on. If the whole campaign about the balance between them is correct. There can be no light without darkness and no darkness without light. It's just that if we don't get it, I'd be majorly dissapointed. I'm so invested in Star Wars thanks to Kylo, Rey and Reylo. I'm invested in other stories such as Game of Thrones, HP, LOTR, MCU etc. But not that extent, or at least on par with Game of Thrones.  Like @Saracene nicely said, I rather have no expectations because headcanons are always more colorful and better all around. Wedding, little Reylo babies and balance finally achieved.

My sister has her ending in her mind. With Kylo and Rey both living and would have to be separated, because Force would want it, like together they are too strong and balance has to be ahcieved when they have to be separate. Price to pay for this. I don't agree with it but hey everyone can have their headcanons.
@DarthRen

Can't agree more with you.

From my side, the more important thing is a story that makes sense with Episode 9 concluding the franchise as if the nine movies would form a single logical story. That's even more important to me than romantic Reylo happening but I would be disappointed if romantic Reylo wouldn't happen in the end.

A Reylo happy wedding would make totally sense in a franchise where every single episode concluded with the death/fall of major characters.  Really I truly hope we won't get some bittersweet ending a la Pirate of Caribbean 3 where Will and Elisabeth end up separated because of Will's curse.  IMO both the Skywalkers and Kenobis (Question ) would deserve to get finally a real happy ending with no clouds in order to conclude the Skywalker arc beautifully.
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 13 Nov - 16:23

@DarthRen wrote:@reylo1992

Speaking of happy endings.

I sooo want a happy ending for them because like others I am a romantic soul. It would thematically fit with PT and OT being bitter and bittersweet with conflicts still going on. If the whole campaign about the balance between them is correct. There can be no light without darkness and no darkness without light. It's just that if we don't get it, I'd be majorly dissapointed. I'm so invested in Star Wars thanks to Kylo, Rey and Reylo. I'm invested in other stories such as Game of Thrones, HP, LOTR, MCU etc. But not that extent, or at least on par with Game of Thrones. Like @Saracene nicely said, I rather have no expectations because headcanons are always more colorful and better all around. Wedding, little Reylo babies and balance finally achieved.

My sister has her ending in her mind. With Kylo and Rey both living and would have to be separated, because Force would want it, like together they are too strong and balance has to be ahcieved when they have to be separate. Price to pay for this. I don't agree with it but hey everyone can have their headcanons.
@DarthRen

Actually your sister’s idea was in my head too and I would not mind such an ending. I do like bittersweet endings. The problem with happily ever after is when you want to do an after as we saw with Han and Leia. With bittersweet endings, unless one character dies, you can always use that obstacle for the next story. If you create the obstacle later, people get upset “How dare you! They were happy!” Anyways, I am not attached to any peculiar ending, but I just wanted to say that I could see your sister’s scenario as a viable (and to me at least, satisfactory) ending.
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 13 Nov - 16:45

@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had separated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we had sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere?

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's where I do not expect Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

I'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
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Post by Night Huntress on Mon 13 Nov - 17:11

@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had seprated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we hade sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere.

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's whre I do not expct Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

i'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

I agree with all of your thoughts - and Kylo and Rey were separated in the past and are so currently... and it doesn't seem to bring balance to the force, so why should it at the end of IX ??? Confus

I think they will be difficulties for future trilogies even if they run away together happily ever after. It's not necessary to make it even more difficult- but that's just my opinion.
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 13 Nov - 17:22

@Night Huntress wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had seprated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we hade sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere.

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's whre I do not expct Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

i'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

I agree with all of your thoughts - and Kylo and Rey were separated in the past and are so currently... and it doesn't seem to bring balance to the force, so why should it at the end of IX ??? Confus

I think they will be difficulties for future trilogies even if they run away together happily ever after. It's not necessary to make it even more difficult- but that's just my opinion.
@Night Huntress

We had one parent surviving and the other dying with Anakin/Vader and Padme.

We also had a troubled childhood with one or both parents not being there for their children. I don't think they would want them to repeat their mistakes, even if for a good reasons. I bet Leia and Han thought they're doing a good thing for Ben. How that turned out?

We also had death of the parent sacrificing for someone he loves Anakin/Vader and Luke. If Kylo was to sacrifice himself for Rey.

Considering how recently JJ has spoken about doing something different, they have to find a new way of tying this storyline up. You don't hype up the balance with Kylo and Rey to kill them or be separated. Because if so, then me and LF have an entirely different concept of achieving the balance.


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Post by panki on Mon 13 Nov - 17:27

I have sometimes wondered whether they'll go the route of the movie Hancock, where two powerful God-like soul mates need to stay separated for the greater good even if they love one another....it begins with them separate (and one not knowing who he is) and ends with them parting ways in an act of self-sacrifice and a bitter-sweet ending but remaining in love.


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Post by colibri on Mon 13 Nov - 17:30

Since the Skywalker Saga was supposed to have nine episodes (as far as I know), I think there might be a happy ending to this trilogy. The Skywalkers need one - and me, too! Rey and Kylo are such tragic characters already. I can't bear the idea of them getting a bittersweet or tragic ending... Which doesn't mean that LF isn't going to do it, of course. I'm just being selfish here Wink But as someone pointed out, SW is a fairytale and not GoT. So there is hope Smile
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Post by DarthRen on Mon 13 Nov - 17:39

@panki wrote:I have sometimes wondered whether they'll go the route of the movie Hancock, where two powerful God-like soul mates need to stay separated for the greater good even if they love one another....it begins with them separate (and one not knowing who he is) and ends with them parting ways in an act of self-sacrifice and a bitter-sweet ending but remaining in love.

@panki

Really like that movie but I don't know. In theory anything can happen.

Many fans would as I imagine feel a bit cheated or unfulfilled by it. A lot of them would accept sacrifice like Vader's even if it would be a copy or straight up romance. People generally accept definitive endings better than up in the air sort of endings. Simply if the Force wants them united at all cost and then separated again for the greater good, it feels a bit unfullfiled.

Both Kylo and Rey are searching for their place, belonging and essentially to be with someone, have a family and belong to someone.

I'd accept it and stuff, but then LF is treading on some mighty thin ice.
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Post by Night Huntress on Mon 13 Nov - 17:50

@panki: In Hancock they were together and became separated.
Kylo and Rey never were together and they aren't immortal anyway- so that's a big difference.

Besides- in Hancock it was implied it would be bad if they loose their power und became regular human people. In case of Rey/Kylo and their RAWHH POWAHH wouldn't it be a good thing? Nope
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Post by reylo1992 on Mon 13 Nov - 17:51

@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had seprated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we hade sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere.

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's whre I do not expct Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

i'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

Wow! Seems like from us three, I am the most optimistic Smile

It is surely too early to talk about the ending of Episode 9 but like I wrote I believe in happy ending with Kylo and Rey happily married in the traditional Disney ending. And more than this, I even think they won't have to go into exile or hide from the galaxy. Why?

Because Bloodline precisely highlighted the roots of Ben's fall: Darth Vader's legacy is a constant shadow on the Skywalker's destiny and how the galaxy perceive them. Kylo became a monster partly because the galaxy expected him to become a monster like his grandfather. Vader is perceived as responsible of the death of millions of people in the galaxy.  His bloody legacy was the reason why the Skywalker lineage was kept hidden until Bloodline, leading ultimately to Ben's fall to the DS after he learnt the truth.

Since I am optimistic, I believe that the ST will definitely solve the question of the bloody legacy of the Skywalkers so that Reylo babies won't have to live in exile and hide their identity. If it would be so, it would be an unending circle: they would experience the same struggle as their father, would face big risiko to fall to the DS because of rejection and the Skywalker lineage would be was once responsible of unbalance.

So could the ST solve that issue? This is an idea that I had already brought up a few months ago while pointing out the many similarities that Ben shares with the following characters:
- Quasimodo from the Hunchback of Notre-Dame
- Wang So from Scarlet Heart Ryeo
- Kidafrom Atlantis - The Lost Empire
- Elsa from Frozen

I like cross-over. What is the common point between these characters?
- Between Quasimodo, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Monstah" dimension: three persons rejected by society because considered as monster, even experiencing public humiliation
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- Between Kida, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Christi" dimension: three persons holding an important place in the "universe" in the sense that they have an important role to hold in the survival of their people:
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Like Wang So and Elsa, Ben/Kylo cumulates both dimensions.

And here come my point. Kylo's redemption must necessarily be different from Vader's. What was the very problem with Vader's redemption? He saved Luke as the result of 30 seconds of clarity and nobody was there to witness it. Luke may have told to every person he met that his father came back to the light, who would have believed him? And Vader's redemption was neither spectacular nor a salvation for the entire galaxy. No wonder that GL made him die because his redemption would have been problematic because it didn't counterbalance the millions deaths he was responsible for.

Therefore, Icome to the conclusion that the only way to counterbalance the Skywalker bloody legacy is to make Vader's spawn save the entire galaxy in the most spectacular and public way (like Kida, Wang So and Elsa did):
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I  bet that he and Rey will save the galaxy together but unless Rey's lineage/actions make her accountable for the death of billions people, it is more necessary for Ben to be shown as the savior of the galaxy, which suits once again the symbolism behind the Sun/Son/Christ associated with his character. And as the monster saves the galaxy, he (re)gain the acknowledgement of his humanity and his place in society, typically the kind of story arc that both Georges Lucas and Disney like
Wang So
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Quasimodo
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Ben as reversed Anakin Question
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Anakin who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the Chosen One but brought unbalance and death; Ben who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the unreedeemable monster will become its savior.

Here is the riddle to guess if you can sing the bells of Notre-Dame: what makes a monster and what makes a man?

Only then, Ben can be happily married to Rey without having to go to exile, hiding his identity to the world and thus having his children possibly suffering the same fate he suffered.
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Post by panki on Mon 13 Nov - 17:53

@Night Huntress wrote:@panki: In Hancock they were together and became separated.
Kylo and Rey never were together and they aren't immortal anyway- so that's a big difference.

Besides- in Hancock it was implied it would be bad if they loose their power und became regular human people. In case of Rey/Kylo and their RAWHH POWAHH wouldn't it be a good thing? Nope
@Night Huntress

I'm not saying it has to be something 100 % identical to Hancock (or that I even want something like that to happen- quite the opposite)... I'm just talking about another movie where  2 powerful people might love on another but might be forced to stay apart for the greater good....its about a concept, not about copying another movie verbatim.

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Post by DeeBee on Mon 13 Nov - 18:12

@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be
, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had separated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we had sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere?

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's where I do not expect Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

I'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

Hi everyone, I've been enjoying reading all your ideas and wishes and hopes for the ending of this trilogy Smile

@DarthRen your comment got me thinking..
This whole idea that someone could be redeemed and turn from the dark back to the light after doing many horrible things - and not doing it ohhh 5 minutes before they die is really interesting! Smile

From what I have heard of Vader's legacy - the wider galaxy saw him as an evil monster and seem to have no idea that he turned back to the light, and sacrificed his life for that of his son. And- that Vader's actions put an end to the Sith..
It seems to me that the price Vader paid for his crimes was to be permanently condemned in the eyes of the galaxy, and his self-sacrifice never known.. I feel like I need to watch the end of ROTJ again!

With Kylo/Ben - if he survives this will not be the same story - if he lives and people find out he was instrumental in saving the galaxy from snoke, and he dedicates his life to contributing good to the galaxy - it is possible the galaxy will view him with different eyes... he will illustrate with his actions repeatedly that he is indeed a changed man. Vader never had this luxury...
I'm not saying there would be no consequences - I agree there will be - but I think he has a chance to, in time, prove he has changed... and to be accepted. Sure not by all - there are some who never forgive and choose to see the bad in people, or that people can't change. What can be done with such pessimism? You can't control what people think: but you can live a life that you are proud of.. and not everyone would be so unforgiving if you saved the universe or something! Wink
Kylo/Ben's life is not over if he is found out IMHO.. but he will have significant challenges ahead no doubt.

Put me in the Kylo/Ben and Rey together and live happily ever after camp!

One quick last thought.. I've wondered too about the raw powah and can the two of them actually be together?
I'm hoping that once they bring balance to the force together, the raw powah will then be able to be controlled better! Smile
These two lonely souls being separated forever sounds terrible to me (but I understand we will not all see it the same..).
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Post by DeeBee on Mon 13 Nov - 18:36

@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had seprated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we hade sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere.

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's whre I do not expct Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

i'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

Wow! Seems like from us three, I am the most optimistic Smile

It is surely too early to talk about the ending of Episode 9 but like I wrote I believe in happy ending with Kylo and Rey happily married in the traditional Disney ending. And more than this, I even think they won't have to go into exile or hide from the galaxy. Why?

Because Bloodline precisely highlighted the roots of Ben's fall: Darth Vader's legacy is a constant shadow on the Skywalker's destiny and how the galaxy perceive them. Kylo became a monster partly because the galaxy expected him to become a monster like his grandfather. Vader is perceived as responsible of the death of millions of people in the galaxy.  His bloody legacy was the reason why the Skywalker lineage was kept hidden until Bloodline, leading ultimately to Ben's fall to the DS after he learnt the truth.

Since I am optimistic, I believe that the ST will definitely solve the question of the bloody legacy of the Skywalkers so that Reylo babies won't have to live in exile and hide their identity. If it would be so, it would be an unending circle: they would experience the same struggle as their father, would face big risiko to fall to the DS because of rejection and the Skywalker lineage would be was once responsible of unbalance.

So could the ST solve that issue? This is an idea that I had already brought up a few months ago while pointing out the many similarities that Ben shares with the following characters:
- Quasimodo from the Hunchback of Notre-Dame
- Wang So from Scarlet Heart Ryeo
- Kidafrom Atlantis - The Lost Empire
- Elsa from Frozen

I like cross-over. What is the common point between these characters?
- Between Quasimodo, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Monstah" dimension: three persons rejected by society because considered as monster, even experiencing public humiliation
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu217
- Between Kida, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Christi" dimension: three persons holding an important place in the "universe" in the sense that they have an important role to hold in the survival of their people:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu207
Like Wang So and Elsa, Ben/Kylo cumulates both dimensions.

And here come my point. Kylo's redemption must necessarily be different from Vader's. What was the very problem with Vader's redemption? He saved Luke as the result of 30 seconds of clarity and nobody was there to witness it. Luke may have told to every person he met that his father came back to the light, who would have believed him? And Vader's redemption was neither spectacular nor a salvation for the entire galaxy. No wonder that GL made him die because his redemption would have been problematic because it didn't counterbalance the millions deaths he was responsible for.

Therefore, Icome to the conclusion that the only way to counterbalance the Skywalker bloody legacy is to make Vader's spawn save the entire galaxy in the most spectacular and public way (like Kida, Wang So and Elsa did):
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu208
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur69
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu209

I  bet that he and Rey will save the galaxy together but unless Rey's lineage/actions make her accountable for the death of billions people, it is more necessary for Ben to be shown as the savior of the galaxy, which suits once again the symbolism behind the Sun/Son/Christ associated with his character. And as the monster saves the galaxy, he (re)gain the acknowledgement of his humanity and his place in society, typically the kind of story arc that both Georges Lucas and Disney like
Wang So
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur70
Quasimodo
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu216
Ben as reversed Anakin Question
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur71
Anakin who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the Chosen One but brought unbalance and death; Ben who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the unreedeemable monster will become its savior.

Here is the riddle to guess if you can sing the bells of Notre-Dame: what makes a monster and what makes a man?

Only then, Ben can be happily married to Rey without having to go to exile, hiding his identity to the world and thus having his children possibly suffering the same fate he suffered.
@reylo1992

I missed this comment at first! @reylo1992 - I love this!!! and I totally agree with you!!! Smile
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Post by LadyHa on Mon 13 Nov - 18:51

@reylo1992 wrote:

And here come my point. Kylo's redemption must necessarily be different from Vader's. What was the very problem with Vader's redemption? He saved Luke as the result of 30 seconds of clarity and nobody was there to witness it. Luke may have told to every person he met that his father came back to the light, who would have believed him? And Vader's redemption was neither spectacular nor a salvation for the entire galaxy. No wonder that GL made him die because his redemption would have been problematic because it didn't counterbalance the millions deaths he was responsible for.

Therefore, Icome to the conclusion that the only way to counterbalance the Skywalker bloody legacy is to make Vader's spawn save the entire galaxy in the most spectacular and public way (like Kida, Wang So and Elsa did):

Anakin who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the Chosen One but brought unbalance and death; Ben who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the unreedeemable monster will become its savior.

@reylo1992

Great post!  I am only quoting part of it- the whole thing is food for thought, though.  I used to think that Kylo's story would inevitably end in tragedy, but I've lately changed my mind. It would be more interesting (though difficult) to write a story for him with a future that holds love. And, as you write, perhaps this could only come after a spectacular salvation.
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Post by PalmettoBlue on Mon 13 Nov - 18:53

@reylo1992 wrote:
@DarthRen wrote:@SanghaRen

Even if happily ever after happens, still there are consequences for both of them and mainly for Kylo/Ben.

If his identity becomes a public knowledge and it might be, if Snoke thinks so. So far, I think only handful of people in FO or the Resistance knows who he really is. If he survives, then many people will go after him. The Resistance might allow him to go to exile or might not even that. He'll be hunted spiritually[Han's murder] by what he did, people coming after him and also helping others. Not to mention if he and Rey got kids, that's putting them on the spotlight. This would be an honorable thing to do but it raises another issues. I'll explain it.

We have PT - bitter ending with Dark Side winning, OT - bittersweet ending with light side winning. So we need a happy ending if they want to be  original and we had seprated family issue already with Han/Leia/Ben. For different reasons but still we hade sort of that stuff. Not to mention if Ben ends up alone, this is how he got to the dark side in the first place. The thing is why also this ending my sister proposed doesn't work for me, is that Skywalker line will continue or not? So Kylo would have to live in exile, suffer more and have his family with Rey elsewhere.

You can say, he's protecting them but then while I love bittersweet endings. Game of Throns will have such an ending and that's whre I do not expct Jon and Daenerys to live happily ever after, because it's based on a cruel medieval world, Star Wars is essentially a fairytale story.

i'm not disregarding my sister's ending, many options are in the play including happily ever after, separation and even deaths. Just that it doesn't work for me personally and the way the story is shaping up to be.
@DarthRen

Wow! Seems like from us three, I am the most optimistic Smile

It is surely too early to talk about the ending of Episode 9 but like I wrote I believe in happy ending with Kylo and Rey happily married in the traditional Disney ending. And more than this, I even think they won't have to go into exile or hide from the galaxy. Why?

Because Bloodline precisely highlighted the roots of Ben's fall: Darth Vader's legacy is a constant shadow on the Skywalker's destiny and how the galaxy perceive them. Kylo became a monster partly because the galaxy expected him to become a monster like his grandfather. Vader is perceived as responsible of the death of millions of people in the galaxy.  His bloody legacy was the reason why the Skywalker lineage was kept hidden until Bloodline, leading ultimately to Ben's fall to the DS after he learnt the truth.

Since I am optimistic, I believe that the ST will definitely solve the question of the bloody legacy of the Skywalkers so that Reylo babies won't have to live in exile and hide their identity. If it would be so, it would be an unending circle: they would experience the same struggle as their father, would face big risiko to fall to the DS because of rejection and the Skywalker lineage would be was once responsible of unbalance.

So could the ST solve that issue? This is an idea that I had already brought up a few months ago while pointing out the many similarities that Ben shares with the following characters:
- Quasimodo from the Hunchback of Notre-Dame
- Wang So from Scarlet Heart Ryeo
- Kidafrom Atlantis - The Lost Empire
- Elsa from Frozen

I like cross-over. What is the common point between these characters?
- Between Quasimodo, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Monstah" dimension: three persons rejected by society because considered as monster, even experiencing public humiliation
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu217
- Between Kida, Wang So and Elsa
==> "Christi" dimension: three persons holding an important place in the "universe" in the sense that they have an important role to hold in the survival of their people:
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu207
Like Wang So and Elsa, Ben/Kylo cumulates both dimensions.

And here come my point. Kylo's redemption must necessarily be different from Vader's. What was the very problem with Vader's redemption? He saved Luke as the result of 30 seconds of clarity and nobody was there to witness it. Luke may have told to every person he met that his father came back to the light, who would have believed him? And Vader's redemption was neither spectacular nor a salvation for the entire galaxy. No wonder that GL made him die because his redemption would have been problematic because it didn't counterbalance the millions deaths he was responsible for.

Therefore, Icome to the conclusion that the only way to counterbalance the Skywalker bloody legacy is to make Vader's spawn save the entire galaxy in the most spectacular and public way (like Kida, Wang So and Elsa did):
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu208
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur69
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu209

I  bet that he and Rey will save the galaxy together but unless Rey's lineage/actions make her accountable for the death of billions people, it is more necessary for Ben to be shown as the savior of the galaxy, which suits once again the symbolism behind the Sun/Son/Christ associated with his character. And as the monster saves the galaxy, he (re)gain the acknowledgement of his humanity and his place in society, typically the kind of story arc that both Georges Lucas and Disney like
Wang So
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur70
Quasimodo
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captu216
Ben as reversed Anakin Question
The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Captur71
Anakin who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the Chosen One but brought unbalance and death; Ben who was introduced to the galaxy (and the audience) as the unreedeemable monster will become its savior.

Here is the riddle to guess if you can sing the bells of Notre-Dame: what makes a monster and what makes a man?

Only then, Ben can be happily married to Rey without having to go to exile, hiding his identity to the world and thus having his children possibly suffering the same fate he suffered.
@reylo1992

This post is a thing of beauty.
That is all.
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Post by LadyHa on Mon 13 Nov - 19:16

Just for fun.
Came across this Quora page from April 2015 and found it prophetic! I guess Star Wars is getting British-y.  Smile Original Link

The Last Jedi General Discussion - Page 5 Stwrs11
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Post by SanghaRen on Mon 13 Nov - 19:18

@panki wrote:I have sometimes wondered whether they'll go the route of the movie Hancock, where two powerful God-like soul mates need to stay separated for the greater good even if they love one another....it begins with them separate (and one not knowing who he is) and ends with them parting ways in an act of self-sacrifice and a bitter-sweet ending but remaining in love.

@panki

That is a good one. I had forgotten about it. There are probably other examples of two powerful beings having to part ways. It kind of makes sense in a way because too much power mixed with emotions/feelings can make for an explosive combination. Imagine what disagreements can lead to Smile I have to watch that movie again in OV this time.
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