The Last Jedi General Discussion

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Post by Good-olio Raeh on Wed 14 Mar - 0:27

@Darth Dementor
@Darth Dementor wrote:

Towards the end is what hammers home why the old school fans hate TLJ.  It couldn't make them feel like a kid again.  Pat's solution of making a time machine, going forward in time to buy the Sequel Trilogy on Blu-Ray; transfer it to VHS and giving the copies to themselves as children is the only sane solution for them to enjoy the new movies, because the best stuff always comes out when were young and impressionable.
@Darth Dementor

This is ironic I just finished talking to a few disgruntled fans regarding this issue TONIGHT. They had no understanding that this was the first time a princess POV instead of Knight’’s POV has been discussed...and all the feminine metaphors and implications of the power of touch, doors, trees, fire, etc. And they were upset that the novel had to “defend” or “makeup for bad filmmaking” because they didn’t get the Reylo connection. One of the guys told me, with respect and innocence I believe, that he thought Reylos were a bunch of girls who have a think for bad boys, and that’s how all this shipping started. I told them no. LOL

And I told them the Reylo community saw all of this in the FA b/f even the Last Jedi came out... We understood the power of the interrogation scene and the opening of doors that those two shared and its implications. It comes from a community of people who merged their strengths and knowledge of film language and literary references and metaphors and applied them to their view of FA to support that what they saw was correct and more meaningful...That if they had read Pride and Prejudice, Jane Eyre, and princess tales perhaps, they would have had the tools to see them, or if they listened to the analysis of why Reylos are Reylos perhaps they would see that we are mature and sophisticated partakers of content. Some of these guys became very interested, and are responding and asking for more information and channels to contact. YAY! Growth for all!

The others: They respond with “well, that’s stupid” or other foul words,LOL. And I ended the discussion with well, not varying your reading and refusing to listen...well, then you will forever remain a child and I encouraged them to go and read some more literature. Of course, I said this with more tact...but there’s the gist of hours and hours of conversation. Some of the immature ones are listening; they just need help crossing over and entering the ship. They haven’t developed their sea legs yet.
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Post by Saracene on Wed 14 Mar - 0:44

I'm inclined to think that Kylo did only see Rey's past in the vision and not the future, despite the "your parents treated you like garbage" line, which I admit doesn't make much sense. That exchange in the elevator, where Kylo told Rey that he saw who her parents were, was a build-up for the eventual big revelation or Rey's parents in the throne room, so I doubt there was meant to be something else tacked on top of that. Why wouldn't Kylo also directly tell her that he saw the future, instead of just saying that he saw her parents? I'm not getting an impression like there's meant to be a switch between "I saw something that makes me sure" and "I saw who your parents are".
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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 14 Mar - 1:08

@Saracene wrote:I'm inclined to think that Kylo did only see Rey's past in the vision and not the future, despite the "your parents treated you like garbage" line, which I admit doesn't make much sense. That exchange in the elevator, where Kylo told Rey that he saw who her parents were, was a build-up for the eventual big revelation or Rey's parents in the throne room, so I doubt there was meant to be something else tacked on top of that. Why wouldn't Kylo also directly tell her that he saw the future, instead of just saying that he saw her parents? I'm not getting an impression like there's meant to be a switch between "I saw something that makes me sure" and "I saw who your parents are".
@Saracene

before the novelization release I was sure he saw her future as well. I try to explain why I changed my mind.

he said to her in the elevator:
"I saw something, too. Because of what I saw, I know when the moment comes, you'll be the one to turn.
You'll stand with me. Rey, I saw who your parents are."


He saw that she has no-one and was abandoned by her parents just like him - that's why he thought she will stand by him.
In his still twisted mind he thought she'll turn because he can offer her the belonging she desperately craves (and the galaxy on top).

That sounds very bad- he had good intentions but came to the wrong conclusion.

And somehow I'm almost relieved he didn't see the future, because that means what Rey saw can still happen but it was a more distant future than she thought. She saw the endgame, but not the way how it will come to it.

That also explains why Ben reacted so differently...he didn't saw the future- his mind wasn't on the same page as Reys.
And somehow that makes his decision to kill Snoke,  to save her and free himself from his abuser even more powerful in my opinion.
He didn't know the outcome- had no vision that gave him confidence... and still he decided to risk everything for her or the future HE had in mind for them together.
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Post by Kessel on Wed 14 Mar - 1:17

I agree based on the context, I think Kylo saw Rey’s past (meaning her parents), but yeah, it’s weird that he treated that vision like some kind of revelation since he already seemed well aware that Rey’s parents were jerks who threw her out like garbage.

Perhaps it’s possible what he saw in his vision was worse than what he previously picked up from her mind since in the vision he saw that they hadn’t just thrown her out, but had sold her for drinking money.

I wonder if Force visions of the past differ from Force visions of the future (which are not always reliable). We know Rey saw glimpses of the past in her Force back and they were apparently accurate (I believe). I just wonder if there’s anything that specifies in canon whether visions of the past are reliable or not.

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Post by Let The Past Die on Wed 14 Mar - 1:49

Hmm, it's all very odd. Because if it was just her past, then basically all he saw was where her parents ended up. Her vision moved her to tears, and for him it's just seeing her parents dead in the desert. But if by seeing that, made him feel they were more connected... that she would turn because they were both abandoned.
I still think its odd. Neutral
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Post by Good-olio Raeh on Wed 14 Mar - 1:55

@Night Huntress “I saw who your parents are.”

Well, you know...the Solos could use a daughter-in-law up there in the Force. Just accept that hand Rey and get the father and mother you always wanted....then you can become a Solo and a Skywalker. LOL. I am just playing. Wink

The Skywalkers always loose a hand, right? Kylo lost his own.
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Post by Teo oswald on Wed 14 Mar - 2:10

having seen Rey's past kylo will have thought that he can take care of her, be the figure she is looking for...
It's funny because Rey told him she saw his future and he replies .... no Rey you will be converted and you will be on my side, we will see the episode nine the exact opposite, it will be Ben to go to her
"you were right", "I told you so" Smile
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Post by rawpowah on Wed 14 Mar - 2:26

@Darth Dementor wrote:
@snufkin wrote:@rawpowah Found it! It's from an old discussion about Rey's Mysterious Origins. Ha, well almost close. It did show him being able to read her, although his motivations are still selfish when he finally brings it up during his Throne Room proposal

@Darth Dementor wrote:Rey willingly letting Kylo read her mind is the most logical step to happen.  Story wise it is the best way to show the trust Ben earned from her.  

The second reason is it shows how his motivations have evolved.  First it was because they were on separate sides of a war.  Next time it is because their allies and Ben is doing it FOR Rey to help her, instead of a selfish act for his own gain.
@snufkin

I was fairly close Laughing. When I theorized this I thought they would both be physically on Ach-To for most of the film.

In a sense he did go in her mind again but not for the First Order but for himself and his own desires. And he did help her by making Rey confess the truth of her parents, and finally come to grips with it. The problem was, his execution and timing was really really off. He was, in his mind, trying to help her (in a clumsy manner) he just thought it would lead to him getting what he wanted too and they both would come out on top. Hail in one of their Force Skypes he even said parents were a weakness that holds you back, from reaching your true goals. And he probably felt the same of Snoke and the FO. I wouldn't be surprised if he was thinking "your parents let you down like my did and the Resistance will too, just like my organization has. We're the only ones who won't disappointed each other." So of course when Rey rejects him he goes into Hulk smash mode, because he feels more hopeless than ever before.
@Darth Dementor

Actually I was entertaining a scenario in Episode 9 last week, where she lets him read her mind to show him the vision she had of his future. I can dream lol
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Post by Teo oswald on Wed 14 Mar - 3:07

have you seen the deleted scene of kylo ren?
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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 14 Mar - 3:42

@Teo oswald wrote:have you seen the deleted scene of kylo ren?
@Teo oswald

the few seconds where he stares out from a hangar seeing Reys arriving?
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Post by 12 Parsnips on Wed 14 Mar - 3:45

There are a number of things in play with "they threw you away like garbage," I think. First, from TFA Ben knows the kind of life Rey's been living. He knows she didn't have a father in her life because she sees Han as such a father figure. He knows her loneliness. And he might have seen more. He most likely knows she's in denial. Second, he's Mr. Projection. Ben sees her pain and he shares it--and projects that since he felt thrown away like garbage, and she must too. Additionally, he knows her desperate longing for belonging and family.

So my theory (which is temporary--I'll probably change my mind by next week Razz ) is that when he sees who her parents are and what happened to them in his vision, he reasons that if he tells Rey that her waiting has all been in vain and that there's absolutely nothing to hope for via the route she has been clinging to all her life, then she will grasp for belonging and family another way. A way he can give her. He knows she's attracted to him, if not in love with him. And he's pretty much in love with her. (Clearly he's not turning--the light side people have done nothing but hurt him.) So...of course she'll turn--that's the only way to be with him! I mean, who could resist? Wink #DangerousDreamboat
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Post by Teo oswald on Wed 14 Mar - 4:35

@Night Huntress
yeah Smile few seconds but ...really cool . that scene reminds me myself when I wait for my sweet half coming home Smile
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 14 Mar - 7:58

@Let The Past Die wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Huh, looks like they didn't forget about the wound Finn gave Kylo. Seems like the scar is there in super high res! And I just have to say that whoever did the makeup on the wounds did an incredible job.

Edit: Yeah I think it would be okay to post this now because people have their hands on the movie and bonus features legitimately.

"It’s only when they touch that either of them actually see what could be. And through that they build this kind of incredible intimacy. Luke should be the one nurturing Rey, and it’s actually Kylo that is."
– Daisy Ridley “The Director and the Jedi”
@ZioRen

Holy crap! I just about fainted when I saw this picture, and I'm on my phone!!! He looks unbelievably good! Like insanely! High res is better than the movie theatre!

And Daisy's quote, OMG, amazing. Also, I knew he saw the future, not just the past! I am so busy this week, but I need to download this thing!
@SoloSideCousin

Same!  Even though the novelization comes out and says that he saw her past, I just don't think that Adam played it onscreen as having only seen her past.

The novelization also hammers home that Snoke truly believes that he was the one who created the Force bond, which I don't think is the case, either (although he probably did something to heighten it).  
@ISeeAnIsland

Right! If he just saw her bad parents, he wouldn't have looked so intense and carried away with emotion. He saw the future. That's why he believed ahe would stand by him when the time came. Her rotten parents would never give him that certainty. He saw the future. I honestly don't think Fry was told much about this because those visions are a huge spoilery secret. Daisy would know more because she was there when Rian directed how she and Adam should play it.
@SoloSideCousin

Kylo also tells her in the shirtless scene: "Your parents threw you away like garbage".

So it feels kind of weird for him to have just seen Rey's past in the smut hut, when he already said they abandoned her in a previous scene.
@rawpowah

This is interesting, because in the elevator scene and Kylo says "from what I saw I know you'll be the one to turn" then reading the novel with the added line about it being her past.

It puzzled me, why would seeing her past convince him she'd turn? Especially when he already knew most of her past from his initial connection, thus what he told her about her parents abandoned her like garbage. Obviously he saw more of the past when the hands touched, he knew what happened to her parents, and was able to tell her, which now allows Rey to move on.

But I felt he must have seen more, and that was the future too, but like with Rey's vision we don't get to see or know exactly what it is.

Otherwise if we take it at face value, that knowing her parents are buried in a Jakku desert, that alone would cause her to turn.  Nope   No, there is much more to what he saw too.

Although I've just had a thought, after she tells him "please don't go this way" and he replies "no NO, you're still HOLDING ON!" is he referring to her holding onto the light as it were, or is he referring to holding onto to her past, despite him clarifying what has happened.

What did everyone else think he meant about the "still holding on" part?
@Let The Past Die

Alright, this may be an unpopular opinion, but... Kylo saw her past, right? And seeing that convinces him that she'll turn and join him. He says "I saw who your parents were" in the elevator then makes her admit the truth after the fight. I think he thinks that her being "nothing" and having a connection with no one but him will be reason enough for her to join him. Your parents threw you away, Luke didn't really help you, but I'm here. And I think he's being sincere and saying "We both have no one but each other," but yeah, I think he thinks that he can use the "You're nobody, but I can make you somebody," angle as leverage.
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Post by Apriljandy on Wed 14 Mar - 10:22

I think in the elevator scene, Ben saw Rey's past but not their shared future. He saw that Rey was an abandoned child, and just like him, he thought she would want to forget the past that has brought her so much pain.... and that would mean standing with him-- someone who was just like her.

Although Ben and Rey had been through some horrible stuff in their lives, they came out of those differently. Ben became hopeless because he knew the truth that people were afraid of him and that his family wanted to get rid of him. Rey remained hopeful while she kept clinging to a lie she knew very well was a LIE.
And although Ben opened her eyes to the truth, she still remained true to herself, she still remained hopeful-- hopeful not for her parents but for Ben. It's in her very nature to be hopeful.

He opened her eyes to the truth.
She showed him that even in your darkest hour, you can still choose to do the right thing even if people have wronged you.

Gosh i love their dynamic

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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 14 Mar - 10:42

@Apriljandy wrote:I think in the elevator scene, Ben saw Rey's past but not their shared future. He saw that Rey was an abandoned child, and just like him, he thought she would want to forget the past that has brought her so much pain.... and that would mean standing with him-- someone who was just like her.

Although Ben and Rey had been through some horrible stuff in their lives, they came out of those differently. Ben became hopeless because he knew the truth that people were afraid of him and that  his family wanted to get rid of him. Rey remained hopeful while she kept clinging to a lie she knew very well was a LIE.
And although Ben opened her eyes to the truth, she still remained true to herself, she still remained hopeful-- hopeful not for her parents but for Ben. It's in her very nature to be hopeful.

He opened her eyes to the truth.
She showed him that even in your darkest hour, you can still choose to do the right thing even if people have wronged you.

Gosh i love their dynamic
@Apriljandy

Kylo is hopeless and Rey is hopeful, but he takes her hope away by confirming that her family dumped her and is gone. It may be what she needed, but she was devastated to have to face it in that way. She went to Ben hoping he'd turn, but instead he tries to get her to abandon her friends and makes her feel like crap. That's why the throne room scene is so sad. He does the right thing for a moment, and we see that he cares about her, but he doesn't intend to turn from the dark side and in fact tries to bring her down too. It's kinda like "We're both sad and lonely, so let's leave everything behind and wallow together." Tempting, but Rey still has something she cares about (The Resistance and Finn), so she won't give in.
Despite her resilient mask, she looks pretty broken at the end when she and Kylo's eyes meet. She's not ok. She'll get over him telling her she's nothing, but if he doesn't do something to help her friends and the cause, I don't see how he'll ever get her approval.
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Post by whisperingwillow on Wed 14 Mar - 12:46

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Let The Past Die wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Huh, looks like they didn't forget about the wound Finn gave Kylo. Seems like the scar is there in super high res! And I just have to say that whoever did the makeup on the wounds did an incredible job.

Edit: Yeah I think it would be okay to post this now because people have their hands on the movie and bonus features legitimately.

"It’s only when they touch that either of them actually see what could be. And through that they build this kind of incredible intimacy. Luke should be the one nurturing Rey, and it’s actually Kylo that is."
– Daisy Ridley “The Director and the Jedi”
@ZioRen

Holy crap! I just about fainted when I saw this picture, and I'm on my phone!!! He looks unbelievably good! Like insanely! High res is better than the movie theatre!

And Daisy's quote, OMG, amazing. Also, I knew he saw the future, not just the past! I am so busy this week, but I need to download this thing!
@SoloSideCousin

Same!  Even though the novelization comes out and says that he saw her past, I just don't think that Adam played it onscreen as having only seen her past.

The novelization also hammers home that Snoke truly believes that he was the one who created the Force bond, which I don't think is the case, either (although he probably did something to heighten it).  
@ISeeAnIsland

Right! If he just saw her bad parents, he wouldn't have looked so intense and carried away with emotion. He saw the future. That's why he believed ahe would stand by him when the time came. Her rotten parents would never give him that certainty. He saw the future. I honestly don't think Fry was told much about this because those visions are a huge spoilery secret. Daisy would know more because she was there when Rian directed how she and Adam should play it.
@SoloSideCousin

Kylo also tells her in the shirtless scene: "Your parents threw you away like garbage".

So it feels kind of weird for him to have just seen Rey's past in the smut hut, when he already said they abandoned her in a previous scene.
@rawpowah

This is interesting, because in the elevator scene and Kylo says "from what I saw I know you'll be the one to turn" then reading the novel with the added line about it being her past.

It puzzled me, why would seeing her past convince him she'd turn? Especially when he already knew most of her past from his initial connection, thus what he told her about her parents abandoned her like garbage. Obviously he saw more of the past when the hands touched, he knew what happened to her parents, and was able to tell her, which now allows Rey to move on.

But I felt he must have seen more, and that was the future too, but like with Rey's vision we don't get to see or know exactly what it is.

Otherwise if we take it at face value, that knowing her parents are buried in a Jakku desert, that alone would cause her to turn.  Nope   No, there is much more to what he saw too.

Although I've just had a thought, after she tells him "please don't go this way" and he replies "no NO, you're still HOLDING ON!" is he referring to her holding onto the light as it were, or is he referring to holding onto to her past, despite him clarifying what has happened.

What did everyone else think he meant about the "still holding on" part?
@Let The Past Die

Alright, this may be an unpopular opinion, but... Kylo saw her past, right? And seeing that convinces him that she'll turn and join him. He says "I saw who your parents were" in the elevator then makes her admit the truth after the fight. I think he thinks that her being "nothing" and having a connection with no one but him will be reason enough for her to join him. Your parents threw you away, Luke didn't really help you, but I'm here. And I think he's being sincere and saying "We both have no one but each other," but yeah, I think he thinks that he can use the "You're nobody, but I can make you somebody," angle as leverage.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I don't know if it is that he uses it for leverage or if he just can't see that someone wouldn't be hateful and angry like he is if that happened to them. He feels he was betrayed and thrown away like garbage by his family so he assumes that anyone who had that happen to them would feel the same way.
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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 14 Mar - 12:57

I know we had this discussion somewhere already- but I can't remember where...

Was it officially debunked that the kyber crystal from the Legacy lightsaber did NOT broke???

Because as I rewatched that scene a few times and it looks like it did break in two. I mean it would be also logical- why else would there be an explosion if not from the crystal? scratch

You see something glowing in both of the pieces.

I stilled the video but I can't make screenshots from it because iTunes or Apple found a way to prevent that  Rolling Eyes


Last edited by Night Huntress on Wed 14 Mar - 13:19; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 14 Mar - 12:58

@whisperingwillow wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Let The Past Die wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Huh, looks like they didn't forget about the wound Finn gave Kylo. Seems like the scar is there in super high res! And I just have to say that whoever did the makeup on the wounds did an incredible job.

Edit: Yeah I think it would be okay to post this now because people have their hands on the movie and bonus features legitimately.

"It’s only when they touch that either of them actually see what could be. And through that they build this kind of incredible intimacy. Luke should be the one nurturing Rey, and it’s actually Kylo that is."
– Daisy Ridley “The Director and the Jedi”
@ZioRen

Holy crap! I just about fainted when I saw this picture, and I'm on my phone!!! He looks unbelievably good! Like insanely! High res is better than the movie theatre!

And Daisy's quote, OMG, amazing. Also, I knew he saw the future, not just the past! I am so busy this week, but I need to download this thing!
@SoloSideCousin

Same!  Even though the novelization comes out and says that he saw her past, I just don't think that Adam played it onscreen as having only seen her past.

The novelization also hammers home that Snoke truly believes that he was the one who created the Force bond, which I don't think is the case, either (although he probably did something to heighten it).  
@ISeeAnIsland

Right! If he just saw her bad parents, he wouldn't have looked so intense and carried away with emotion. He saw the future. That's why he believed ahe would stand by him when the time came. Her rotten parents would never give him that certainty. He saw the future. I honestly don't think Fry was told much about this because those visions are a huge spoilery secret. Daisy would know more because she was there when Rian directed how she and Adam should play it.
@SoloSideCousin

Kylo also tells her in the shirtless scene: "Your parents threw you away like garbage".

So it feels kind of weird for him to have just seen Rey's past in the smut hut, when he already said they abandoned her in a previous scene.
@rawpowah

This is interesting, because in the elevator scene and Kylo says "from what I saw I know you'll be the one to turn" then reading the novel with the added line about it being her past.

It puzzled me, why would seeing her past convince him she'd turn? Especially when he already knew most of her past from his initial connection, thus what he told her about her parents abandoned her like garbage. Obviously he saw more of the past when the hands touched, he knew what happened to her parents, and was able to tell her, which now allows Rey to move on.

But I felt he must have seen more, and that was the future too, but like with Rey's vision we don't get to see or know exactly what it is.

Otherwise if we take it at face value, that knowing her parents are buried in a Jakku desert, that alone would cause her to turn.  Nope   No, there is much more to what he saw too.

Although I've just had a thought, after she tells him "please don't go this way" and he replies "no NO, you're still HOLDING ON!" is he referring to her holding onto the light as it were, or is he referring to holding onto to her past, despite him clarifying what has happened.

What did everyone else think he meant about the "still holding on" part?
@Let The Past Die

Alright, this may be an unpopular opinion, but... Kylo saw her past, right? And seeing that convinces him that she'll turn and join him. He says "I saw who your parents were" in the elevator then makes her admit the truth after the fight. I think he thinks that her being "nothing" and having a connection with no one but him will be reason enough for her to join him. Your parents threw you away, Luke didn't really help you, but I'm here. And I think he's being sincere and saying "We both have no one but each other," but yeah, I think he thinks that he can use the "You're nobody, but I can make you somebody," angle as leverage.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I don't know if it is that he uses it for leverage or if he just can't see that someone wouldn't be hateful and angry like he is if that happened to them. He feels he was betrayed and thrown away like garbage by his family so he assumes that anyone who had that happen to them would feel the same way.
@whisperingwillow

I don't think he thinks of it as leverage, but he kinda taunts her with the parent thing. He brings it up in the shirtless scene and then on the elevator he's like, "Because of what I saw, I know that when the time comes, you'll be the one to turn. Rey, I saw who your parents are," and she backs away warily. So the two statements are linked. It's like "I found out your parents are nobodies, and once you face your past, you'll see why I'm the only one you've got and that we're meant to be together."
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Post by whisperingwillow on Wed 14 Mar - 13:30

@Cowgirlsamurai
Agreed. I just don't think he is actively thinking ooh yes I can use this to manipulate her but more like if she knows this info she will have these same feelings of anger and hatred as me and she will join me because why wouldn't anyone who has had this done to them feel the same way.
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Post by ZioRen on Wed 14 Mar - 13:44

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@whisperingwillow wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Let The Past Die wrote:
@rawpowah wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Huh, looks like they didn't forget about the wound Finn gave Kylo. Seems like the scar is there in super high res! And I just have to say that whoever did the makeup on the wounds did an incredible job.

Edit: Yeah I think it would be okay to post this now because people have their hands on the movie and bonus features legitimately.

"It’s only when they touch that either of them actually see what could be. And through that they build this kind of incredible intimacy. Luke should be the one nurturing Rey, and it’s actually Kylo that is."
– Daisy Ridley “The Director and the Jedi”
@ZioRen

Holy crap! I just about fainted when I saw this picture, and I'm on my phone!!! He looks unbelievably good! Like insanely! High res is better than the movie theatre!

And Daisy's quote, OMG, amazing. Also, I knew he saw the future, not just the past! I am so busy this week, but I need to download this thing!
@SoloSideCousin

Same!  Even though the novelization comes out and says that he saw her past, I just don't think that Adam played it onscreen as having only seen her past.

The novelization also hammers home that Snoke truly believes that he was the one who created the Force bond, which I don't think is the case, either (although he probably did something to heighten it).  
@ISeeAnIsland

Right! If he just saw her bad parents, he wouldn't have looked so intense and carried away with emotion. He saw the future. That's why he believed ahe would stand by him when the time came. Her rotten parents would never give him that certainty. He saw the future. I honestly don't think Fry was told much about this because those visions are a huge spoilery secret. Daisy would know more because she was there when Rian directed how she and Adam should play it.
@SoloSideCousin

Kylo also tells her in the shirtless scene: "Your parents threw you away like garbage".

So it feels kind of weird for him to have just seen Rey's past in the smut hut, when he already said they abandoned her in a previous scene.
@rawpowah

This is interesting, because in the elevator scene and Kylo says "from what I saw I know you'll be the one to turn" then reading the novel with the added line about it being her past.

It puzzled me, why would seeing her past convince him she'd turn? Especially when he already knew most of her past from his initial connection, thus what he told her about her parents abandoned her like garbage. Obviously he saw more of the past when the hands touched, he knew what happened to her parents, and was able to tell her, which now allows Rey to move on.

But I felt he must have seen more, and that was the future too, but like with Rey's vision we don't get to see or know exactly what it is.

Otherwise if we take it at face value, that knowing her parents are buried in a Jakku desert, that alone would cause her to turn.  Nope   No, there is much more to what he saw too.

Although I've just had a thought, after she tells him "please don't go this way" and he replies "no NO, you're still HOLDING ON!" is he referring to her holding onto the light as it were, or is he referring to holding onto to her past, despite him clarifying what has happened.

What did everyone else think he meant about the "still holding on" part?
@Let The Past Die

Alright, this may be an unpopular opinion, but... Kylo saw her past, right? And seeing that convinces him that she'll turn and join him. He says "I saw who your parents were" in the elevator then makes her admit the truth after the fight. I think he thinks that her being "nothing" and having a connection with no one but him will be reason enough for her to join him. Your parents threw you away, Luke didn't really help you, but I'm here. And I think he's being sincere and saying "We both have no one but each other," but yeah, I think he thinks that he can use the "You're nobody, but I can make you somebody," angle as leverage.
@Cowgirlsamurai

I don't know if it is that he uses it for leverage or if he just can't see that someone wouldn't be hateful and angry like he is if that happened to them. He feels he was betrayed and thrown away like garbage by his family so he assumes that anyone who had that happen to them would feel the same way.
@whisperingwillow

I don't think he thinks of it as leverage, but he kinda taunts her with the parent thing. He brings it up in the shirtless scene and then on the elevator he's like, "Because of what I saw, I know that when the time comes, you'll be the one to turn. Rey, I saw who your parents are," and she backs away warily. So the two statements are linked. It's like "I found out your parents are nobodies, and once you face your past, you'll see why I'm the only one you've got and that we're meant to be together."
@Cowgirlsamurai

I personally saw it more as him thinking "when you face and accept that your parents were horrible nobodies who never gave a damn about you, you'll react the same way I did when my family betrayed me because we're so connected and similar in our experiences of loneliness and anger. Meaning you'll turn just like I did, and come to the same conclusion that the best thing to do is burn it all down and start over again to make something better. So when I make my offer for you to join me, you'll agree."

But he was wrong about that, because Rey is made of stronger stuff and has already started embracing the lesson he has yet to learn himself.
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Post by Night Huntress on Wed 14 Mar - 14:00

@ZioRen

yes, I agree- but I think he also thought they could be each others new family... he seemed genuinely emotional as well.
"join me" is pretty heavy stuff. I mean he didn't offer her just a job - he wanted more.

That's why he was so hurt when she refused and left...
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Post by ZioRen on Wed 14 Mar - 14:06

@Night Huntress wrote:@ZioRen

yes, I agree- but I think he also thought they could be each others new family... he seemed genuinely emotional as well.
"join me" is pretty heavy stuff. I mean he didn't offer her just a job - he wanted more.

That's why he was so hurt when she refused and left...
@Night Huntress

Oh yeah. I was just talking about his thought process behind why he assumed forcing her to face her past would make her turn like he did.
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Post by ISeeAnIsland on Wed 14 Mar - 14:09

@Night Huntress wrote:I know we had this discussion somewhere already- but I can't remember where...

Was it officially debunked that the kyber crystal from the Legacy lightsaber did NOT broke???

Because as I rewatched that scene a few times and it looks like it did break in two. I mean it would be also logical- why else would there be an explosion if not from the crystal? scratch

You see something glowing in both of the pieces.

I stilled the video but I can't make screenshots from it because iTunes or Apple found a way to prevent that  Rolling Eyes
@Night Huntress

According to Jason Fry's novelization, the crystal DID break in two--in fact, that's what caused the lightsaber housing to break.
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Post by ZioRen on Wed 14 Mar - 14:12

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I know we had this discussion somewhere already- but I can't remember where...

Was it officially debunked that the kyber crystal from the Legacy lightsaber did NOT broke???

Because as I rewatched that scene a few times and it looks like it did break in two. I mean it would be also logical- why else would there be an explosion if not from the crystal? scratch

You see something glowing in both of the pieces.

I stilled the video but I can't make screenshots from it because iTunes or Apple found a way to prevent that  Rolling Eyes
@Night Huntress

According to Jason Fry's novelization, the crystal DID break in two--in fact, that's what caused the lightsaber housing to break.
@ISeeAnIsland

I could have sworn there was some TLJ BTS something or other where they discussed the broken lightsaber prop they ended up going with and that they made it so the crystal wasn't broken.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 14 Mar - 14:19

@whisperingwillow @ZioRen

You guys are saying exactly the same thing I am in more words Laughing

Kylo’s intentions are not bad, but he goes about things in a way that Rey can’t accept and it’s heartbreaking to watch. Kylo always comes off as being very harsh even when he doesn’t mean to.
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