Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by DeeBee on Sun 06 May 2018, 7:44 pm

Hi All!
@Apriljandy wrote:I thought the will of the Force was always to bring Ben and Rey together, atleast, that's what I understood from TLJ. The Resistance and the FO will all be against the will of the Force because they all want their opposing wild cards (Rey and Ben) dead. So there's your conflict. Rey and Ben against the norm. Ben vs the FO and Rey vs the Resistance. It ends with Ben and Rey vs The real villain. The FO won't get wiped out in the end, they will introduce a character who will be somewhat eligible to take over. It ends with the FO and the Resistance signing a peace treaty, each being led by new leaders.

Rey and Ben faking their deaths and living their new lives under new identities in the outer rim.
@Apriljandy

I love this Apriljany! I hadn't heard this idea put like this before.. It's so true - neither side is going to want Rey and Kylo/Ben to be together!
Potential conflict for Rey in IX is so interesting - I've been enjoying reading everyone's thoughts!
Rey's desire to redeem Ben may be at odds with what the resistance thinks is the right course of action. There could be massive conflict here!
The resistance could send an assassin after Kylo/Ben lol. He is for all appearances their enemy - and it makes sense. they don't know the Kylo/Ben that Rey does.
And.. both Finn and Poe have been hurt (in combat) by Kylo so there would be beliefs that will need to be adjusted if they are to take Ben on as an ally. I think there will be conflict and this will be resolved (so no need to fake deaths IMHO) - but the conflict coming from the FO side won't be resolved.

I think there could also be conflict for Rey in terms of her being the last Jedi and all that goes along with that - it's all left open the end of TLJ. Rey has firmly chosen to be on the side of the resistance, but how is she going to utilise her force powers for good?
With the end of the Jedi order, what will being a Jedi look like now? And what is the role of the Jedi in the galaxy?
For me, all these questions have been opened up by TLJ and are awaiting answers. (oh I hope IX gives them lol).
Rey will need to figure this out - and not have others telling her what they want her to do - The resistance may look at her as a tool of the resistance, when more accurately she is really a tool of the force - this could be a source of conflict. Whoooo we may even get just a little force lore here (shock!) as she figures it out... The books and Luke FG are set up and ready to go for IX.

@YeeRees - welcome to the board!

@nickandnora  - lol yep it's going to hit the fan in IX. There will be plenty of drama!
Though, I think Rey confronted her demons quite explicitly in TLJ. (her parents, her search for identity, turning down Kylo/Ben to save the resistance - this for me was confronting her demons).

Finn confronted his demons - by facing the first order and returning to the resistance, and letting go his grip on Rey. the novelisation is fantastic for insight into Finn's character. I wish it had been explored more in the movie! It does feel a bit like it was brushed over in the movie.
The whole being kidnapped, brainwashed etc. thing - all seems to have not been directly addressed yet. (IMHO) I recently found out about book content ('Journey to the Awakening') that showed before TFA, Finn was a talented stormtrooper who was very kind and protective toward his fellow troopers and he got into trouble from Phasma for that. This compassion for his fellow troopers seems to have disappeared from the story at this point....  I hope it returns in IX and is part of how they story concludes. I think the force has big plans for Finn in IX  Very Happy

Poe? I feel meh about Poe - and think he got off way too lightly internally and externally - for all the deaths he caused in TLJ. I think Rose should deck him. lol. I'd like to see him grappling with his failures some more in IX. He could really struggle to forgive Kylo/Ben and accept him as an ally..
I'm prepared for them to have Poe develop some romantic interest in Rey (shudder) that goes nowhere lol. but his seeing Rey and Kylo/Ben together would be tough for the best pilot in the galaxy to accept haaaa..  and could get in the way of accepting redeemed Ben - and risk peace in the galaxy if Poe is in charge of the resistance! A true leader will put aside his personal hurts and humble himself.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 07 May 2018, 7:03 am

From another forum:

Okey. Now someone claiming to have links with Pinewood is piping up online to say that the security is so tight that any leaks at this stage are all rubbish. They provided fairly reasonable descriptions of the process going on with security on the lot and offered photographic proof of their own legitimacy so.. take that as you will. Still fun to speculate!

Yeah, this sounds legit and what I expect from LF at this stage.

Oh, and another thing I just remembered. Rian said he typed out the TLJ script on a MacBook Air that was 'air-gapped' -which means it was never connected to the internet- for security reasons. Also, I think it was never printed and actors had to read it off a tablet and then give it back when they had finished reading. I'm guessing portions of it may have been printed when needed but not the full thing. I think that's also becoming common for big movies nowadays.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rawpowah on Mon 07 May 2018, 8:04 am

@Kylo Rey Do you have a link? What else did he say?
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 07 May 2018, 8:17 am

@rawpowah wrote:@Kylo Rey Do you have a link? What else did he say?
@rawpowah

It's from the forum that shall not be named, so sorry I can't give a link. That was all they said though.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by ZioRen on Mon 07 May 2018, 10:10 am

We knew next to nothing about TLJ until after the world premiere. Bothan_Spy was the only really legitimate leaker. Lucasfilm is no doubt going to double down on spoiler avoidance for IX. Of course these big overarching story leaks are fake as usual.


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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by YeeRees on Mon 07 May 2018, 11:06 am

Thank you @DeeBee I lurked a while after joining because it's a bit daunting with all the different threads and topics. But I can’t help getting swept up in the excitement for EpIX even though it’s still a long way off. Smile

I was OK going into the other 2 movies not knowing much but I’m more invested in it all now. I think I would like to at least know Kylo’s fate, not the details but if he’s dead or alive at the end.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by californiagirl on Mon 07 May 2018, 12:09 pm

@ZioRen wrote:We knew next to nothing about TLJ until after the world premiere. Bothan_Spy was the only really legitimate leaker. Lucasfilm is going to double down on spoiler avoidance probably twofold for IX. Of course these big overarching story leaks are fake as usual.
@ZioRen

Though in all fairness, the Reylos and a few other observant fans correctly predicted much of the film, especially in regards to the Rey/Kylo/Luke parts. We knew Snoke had to die in either Episode 8 or 9, and I figured that if Han could die, and Luke was clearly not at the center of this story, Luke could potentially die in one of those movies too. No legacy character is safe anymore. There will be some twists and turns in 9 certainly, but I think we have the gist of what will go down, or at least what the point of it is, which is not Rey the Jedi kindergarten teacher.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Wed 09 May 2018, 12:07 am

I have a few ideas regarding what Kylo and Rey need to do in order to be together in IX.....Kylo needs to forgive his family. They let him down horribly, but if he continues to let his understandable hurt and bitterness fester it will bring him nothing but pain. His family have paid for their mistakes big time. I wish we could have a Force ghost visit from Luke in which he asks Kylo to forgive him. That would be a powerful scene, I think. As for Rey...she needs to accept that Kylo and Ben are the same person. She sees Ben as someone to save from Kylo, as if they are separate entities. But they are one and the same. If she is to save Ben, she also has to save Kylo. As for Poe....I think setting him up as a more aggressive type of leader is a good idea. At the moment he's too much of a Han Solo wannabe. The one thing I worry about is now Rian has left there might be changes to his original intent with the characters. When Taika Waititi directed Thor 3 he completely changed everything, from removing the original two female leads to changing the tone of the film entirely. Luckily JJ also directed TFA so hopefully he'll take the foundations Rian created and finish what he started!!
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by nana7marie on Wed 09 May 2018, 5:44 pm

After all the fake leaks this topic has been abandoned, but I’ll just say that John’s (or anybody’s) hair length doesn’t have to mean anything at all - there might be no significant time jump. I think nobody expects IX to pick up where TLJ ended, with Rey escaping on the Falcon with the Resistance and Kylo leaving Crait with the First Order - some time will surely pass, at least a few weeks to a few months, but I still believe it won’t be more than a year. Filming begins in 2-3 months so this can be it - I mean there’s no need to make actors grow their hair to indicate a longer time jump, it’s not like they don’t have scissors in the galaxy far away. It’s perfectly possible to make an interesting and entertaining film with a longer time gap between TLJ and IX and there can be a satisfying redemption and reylo endgame, but it’d be a waste of potential to set IX too far in the future - in which case all characters’ thoughts and feelings are calmer, they’re used to their situation and have possibly kinda accepted it too.
@DeeBee wrote:@Moonlight13 - thanks!
hmmm very very short on the sides.. maybe he is going to grow it back to the usual length.. and it all means nothing lol. such power these SW actors have - one little sentence about their hair length and there are ripples in the force! Very Happy
@DeeBee
@Darth_Awakened wrote:Finn's hair is always longer than John's.

I remember John complaining on Twitter that he couldn't do proper haircut during TLJ because of the mentioned reason.

I think it doesn't mean ANYTHING.
@Darth_Awakened

@DeeBee wrote:As for John growing out his hair. Um what is it's length currently?
Growing his hair could mean time skip..
Or.... - could be related to a flashback - maybe he had longer hair during his first order youth..
-or maybe the time skip is at the end of the movie - as an epilogue! [e.g. Rose and longer haired Finn nurse their baby through Rey and Ben's wedding ceremony.
ha]
@DeeBee
@bashfulblueeyes3 wrote:While I know with the hair growth statement John made, everyone automatically assumes time jump, but  it could mean something about a plot point?  Just a thought.  I think everyone knows at this point, there will be some kind of time jump.
@bashfulblueeyes3
There’re quite a few possibilities about why John’s growing out his hair, but if it’s indeed a time jump, we’ll know before the movie’s released, maybe even ahead of the trailer - if Lucasfilm doesn’t spell it out, I think it’ll be easy to guess anyway.
I’ve just gone through this whole thread and last month you guys discussed all pre-TLJ assumptions and freak-outs and how these related to reality and here’s @special_cases quote that’s very adequate to this situation:
@special_cases wrote:Oh God, so many things didn't make final cut or we had false assumptions
@special_cases wrote:New haircut! Time jump!

lol!
@Saracene wrote:I'm not sure why people worry about Kylo not having clean hands in between the films to be honest. He's spent six years as Snoke's right-hand man before TFA, and in that movie he executes a village and kills his own father. What's he going to do that will make him worse than what he's already done?
@Saracene
I agree - I think people are confused cos different genres might approach a character such as Kylo differently and actions of such a character often have a different purpose. In real life we tend to think of a person who’s killed a few or a dozen of people as worse than somebody who’s murdered one or ‘just’ a couple - quantity matters. So I get why some fans worry about Kylo slaughtering more villages and so on. But this isn’t a real life based story, such as documentary, biography or some drama, but a fairy tale set in a fictional world and time, which is symbolic and exaggerated. Antis in particular conveniently forget about it and call for Kylo to be judged and punished like a real life mass murderer.
From a story-telling perspective, Kylo had to kill Jakku villagers (less personal, showing he’s indeed menacing and ruthless) and Lor San Tekka (more personal, showing he’s short-tempered and violent) to be firmly established as a villain - if he spared them, his monologue to Vader’s mask wouldn’t be a twist exposing his conflict, actually, there wouldn’t be much of a conflict at all - Kylo would be a dark sider only by name and the story wouldn’t be engaging. We already have Finn, who belonged to the First Order (albeit not of his free will) but didn’t commit any evil deed - no need to repeat this. Kylo’s victims who ‘matter’ are those emotionally connected to him or the audience - his father and his master, who fit both requirements - Han is universally adored by SW fans and Kylo loves him, the audience despises Snoke and Kylo hates him too.
Kylo seems to be on a path towards redemption and personally I’d prefer this reflected in his actions (or lack thereof in this case) from the very beginning of IX but if they postpone it slightly, I don’t think we should worry when Kylo kills somebody in IX unless it’s Leia or somebody innocent (like a child) or really a lot of people (e.g. Kylo ordering Hux to create Starkiller Base 2.0 and exterminate another solar system) - redemption could be possible even then but it wouldn’t be satisfying cos of pretty much bad writing. Having said that, I don’t believe we’ll see anything like this at all.
@californiagirl wrote:Because now he's not just doing what Snoke wants him to do, or whatever he's been groomed/brainwashed to think is the correct thing to do. He is in charge of himself and his actions and no one else to try to pin blame on. Also, the end of TFA and TLJ are his lowest points to date, he needs to start turning the ship around about now and not just sink even further, or the audience will have an even harder time getting on board with Bendemption.
@californiagirl
I’d rather have Kylo begin his redemption as soon as IX starts too (even if at first it’s only not committing any evil acts, followed by good decisions and deeds later on), especially that antis will be harassing us otherwise (though I believe they’ll do it anyway) but regarding the bold part - I don’t think that killing Snoke means Kylo’s actions thereafter aren’t the result of his brainwashing. His redemption will be a process and there’s a chance we’ll see some Renperor but I doubt it’ll be very evil.
@Saracene wrote:Well I doubt that we're going to see Kylo blowing up planets, or ordering mass death camps for the dissenters, etc. In fact I doubt we're going to get much information about what's going on in the galaxy other than something like, First Order is in control of everything. The basic implication is that Dictatorship is Bad, nor matter who's in charge. These movies are never ever going to suggest that maybe a benevolent dictatorship could actually be good for the galaxy.

(Dictatorship is Bad is also why I could never get the claims I've seen elsewhere that TLJ wasted a chance of doing something new by having Rey join Ben in ruling the galaxy and finding a "third way" or something like that. Um no, the guys who want to restore democracy, however imperfect, will automatically be good guys, and guys who endorse absolute rule will always be bad guys).
@Saracene wrote:Another thing about the awesome benevolent Benperor is that it would pretty much render the existence of the Resistance pointless. Whereas TLJ makes it pretty obvious that the Resistance and its cause is what the viewers are supposed to root for, because cute oppressed children wear their symbol and everything. Plus the Resistance is Leia's baby and they're never going to make it out to be redundant or anything less than right and heroic.
@Saracene
@Darth Dingbat wrote:What I could personally see working somehow is not "Benperor" per se (because I really can't see this trilogy glorifying dictatorship in any way) but Supreme Leader Ren starting out as seeming like the tyrannical Big Bad and finally being revealed to have destroyed the FO from within. So, if you go with a P&P comparison, this would be like when Darcy is revealed to have been behind solving the Lydia situation.
@Darth Dingbat
I don’t think the concept of ‘Benperor’ vs ‘Renperor’ is much about good autocratic vs bad autocratic political system (in this case absolute monarchy with a benevolent ruler vs dictatorship headed by a despotic tyrant) as it’s about Kylo’s state of mind and hence how far he’s into redemption process. By choosing Benperor scenario for Kylo, Lucasfilm doesn’t have to glorify dictatorship, on the contrary, the final step could be Kylo realising he can’t impose his ideas on others. Actually, I believe gradual Benperor would give him the most satisfying redemption - start with not committing any more (serious) crimes, proceed with some random good decisions and finish with the deed.
@Night Huntress wrote:They don't have to imply that- but they can show Ben trying to change things in the galaxy for the better but failing because the FO isn't the right organization to do that.
@Night Huntress
Yes - and realising why it’s not the right organisation for this and hence his own mistakes, acknowledging them and trying to correct his wrongdoings.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 10 May 2018, 12:34 am

What I would like to see is Ben/Kylo doing some 'good' things in the time elapse between TLJ and IX....and the Resistance, now with a more aggressive leader in Poe, doing a few less savoury things, which might lead to Rey questioning her choice at the end of TLJ. There has to be a reason for Poe shown to have a bit of a dislike for passive behaviour, as shown in his confronting Holdo. I notice more and more with each viewing of TLJ how Holdo is willing to sacrifice her life....yet although brave, Poe sees nothing wrong with sacrificing others. He caused the deaths of all the bombers at the evacuation of D' Qar, yet saw it as worth it to cover himself in glory - I noticed how he practically screamed at Paige to get her a** in gear despite the fact she'd lost Nix and was badly hurt herself. It would be an interesting character arc for Poe, I think.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 10 May 2018, 1:16 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:What I would like to see is Ben/Kylo doing some 'good' things in the time elapse between TLJ and IX....and the Resistance, now with a more aggressive leader in Poe, doing a few less savoury things, which might lead to Rey questioning her choice at the end of TLJ. There has to be a reason for Poe shown to have a bit of a dislike for passive behaviour, as shown in his confronting Holdo. I notice more and more with each viewing of TLJ how Holdo is willing to sacrifice her life....yet although brave, Poe sees nothing wrong with sacrificing others. He caused the deaths of all the bombers at the evacuation of D' Qar, yet saw it as worth it to cover himself in glory - I noticed how he practically screamed at Paige to get her a** in gear despite the fact she'd lost Nix and was badly hurt herself. It would be an interesting character arc for Poe, I think.
@motherofpearl1

Yeah, I really hated how he talked to Paige, from the first time I saw it. What made it worse was when he landed after all those ships went down, he didn't even have a moment of reflection or pause. Like when Luke's recklessness got his co-pilot killed on Hoth, he had a moment where he looked really guilty. No such moments for Poe.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 10 May 2018, 2:52 am

Throughout all of TLJ all I keep thinking is 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.' Rose and Finn took a chance to save the Resistance by hiring DJ and it backfired spectacularly. Poe thought he was doing the right thing going after a dreadnought....and it cost far too many lives. Luke destroyed Ben and created Kylo. Kylo made a heartfelt offer to Rey but did it in completely the wrong way. Even Holdo made, I think, one mistake....when Poe practically begged her to give them hope - the one part where I actually felt for him....she looked as if she was close to telling the truth but she kept her mouth shut. As for Rey....her mistake was she failed to realise that Kylo couldn't throw off years of psychological grooming in five minutes. Her mistake is due to her isolated upbringing she is very naive, and still sees people in black and white. Hence how she told Luke at the beginning 'there was no light left in him', when the truth is far more complicated. Rey is on a journey to discover her own mistakes....so far, she has discovered her 'heroes' are not perfect, that not all 'villains' are evil....what will she discover about the Resistance? I think she sees them too as idealised, she kept an old rebel pilot helmet and a doll dressed in rebel clothes in her home. Now she is going to find out what they are really like...
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Riri on Thu 10 May 2018, 4:33 am

@motherofpearl1

Great analysis, it just reaffirms the notion that no one is born evil and its the difference between good vs right.

That was my favourite part of Rogue One, realising the Rebellion is full of assasins, spies and thieves. Cassian being the perfect example.


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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by nana7marie on Thu 10 May 2018, 4:56 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Throughout all of TLJ all I keep thinking is 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions.' Rose and Finn took a chance  to save the Resistance by hiring DJ and it backfired spectacularly. Poe thought he was doing the right thing going after a dreadnought....and it cost far too many lives. Luke destroyed Ben and created Kylo. Kylo made a heartfelt offer to Rey but did it in completely the wrong way. Even Holdo made, I think, one mistake....when Poe practically begged her to give them hope - the one part where I actually felt for him....she looked as if she was close to telling the truth but she kept her mouth shut. As for Rey....her mistake was she failed to realise that Kylo couldn't throw off years of psychological grooming in five minutes. Her mistake is due to her isolated upbringing she is very naive, and still sees people in black and white. Hence how she told Luke at the beginning 'there was no light left in him', when the truth is far more complicated. Rey is on a journey to discover her own mistakes....so far, she has discovered her 'heroes' are not perfect, that not all 'villains' are evil....what will she discover about the Resistance? I think she sees them too as idealised, she kept an old rebel pilot helmet and a doll dressed in rebel clothes in her home. Now she is going to find out what they are really like...
@motherofpearl1
I’d love to see something like this since TLJ has already showed us some darker aspects of Poe’s character - how he focuses on winning the battle instead of seeing the bigger picture, what sacrifice he’s ready to make for the greater good, his arrogance etc. But I fear J.J. might not go there cos we’ve also seen Poe’s realised these mistakes - his own hot-headedness, disregard for the value of human life and so on. I wish he’d reflected on these more or been punished but nothing like this has happened. Of course, it’s possible J.J. will explore it or add something (maybe Poe values the Resistance lives more now but still doesn’t care for the First Order stormtroopers or lower-rank officers - we could see him bargain with them and promise to let them go upon revealing some information but then kill them anyway - something far from noble). Rebels in RO fought for the greater good but some of their methods were disgraceful so it’d be great to see something similar with the Resistance now - they’re pretty boring otherwise Sleep .

@Riri wrote:@motherofpearl1

Great analysis, it just reaffirms the notion that no one is born evil and its the difference between good vs right.

That was my favourite part of Rogue One, realising the Rebellion is full of assasins, splies and thieves. Cassian being the perfect example.
@Riri
Same here! Approves
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Saracene on Thu 10 May 2018, 5:00 am

I really think there's zero chance of Rey finding problems with the Resistance or Poe, outside of her connection with Kylo that might create complications. Partly because the Resistance is Leia's baby and is now her legacy. I doubt they're going to take any risks with that legacy, especially after TLJ finished with Leia fully approving and endorsing Poe's leadership. I mean, they couldn't even commit to Poe's arc fully in TLJ and instead softened it in all sorts of ways.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 10 May 2018, 5:51 am

Maybe the Resistance will be forced to team up with other rebels who are a bit more 'extreme' due to depleted numbers....I can see Finn and Rey comparing them to Leia's teachings. In R1 - yes, I liked the 'shades of grey' aspects of that as well- Mon Mothma mentioned how the rebellion split from Saw Guerrera's people because of their ruthless methods.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 10 May 2018, 10:44 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:What I would like to see is Ben/Kylo doing some 'good' things in the time elapse between TLJ and IX....and the Resistance, now with a more aggressive leader in Poe, doing a few less savoury things, which might lead to Rey questioning her choice at the end of TLJ. There has to be a reason for Poe shown to have a bit of a dislike for passive behaviour, as shown in his confronting Holdo. I notice more and more with each viewing of TLJ how Holdo is willing to sacrifice her life....yet although brave, Poe sees nothing wrong with sacrificing others. He caused the deaths of all the bombers at the evacuation of D' Qar, yet saw it as worth it to cover himself in glory - I noticed how he practically screamed at Paige to get her a** in gear despite the fact she'd lost Nix and was badly hurt herself . It would be an interesting character arc for Poe, I think.
@motherofpearl1

Although in his defense (omg, I can't believe I'm defending Poe), I don't think Poe knew Nix had died or that Paige had been injured, though he could have/should have assumed something was terribly wrong like that.

But I do agree with everything else you've said and the overall analysis of Poe (I'm NOT a fan of Poe by any means lol). He definitely doesn't see anything wrong with sacrificing others. The end will justify the means.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by ZioRen on Thu 10 May 2018, 11:33 am

@Saracene wrote:I really think there's zero chance of Rey finding problems with the Resistance or Poe, outside of her connection with Kylo that might create complications. Partly because the Resistance is Leia's baby and is now her legacy. I doubt they're going to take any risks with that legacy, especially after TLJ finished with Leia fully approving and endorsing Poe's leadership. I mean, they couldn't even commit to Poe's arc fully in TLJ and instead softened it in all sorts of ways.
@Saracene

Highly agreed. I personally think hoping the Resistance and First Order, or Kylo and Poe, are in any way brought to a comparable middle ground in terms of morality is entirely wishful thinking and doesn't really follow. Especially now that Leia is about to be gone, will what is essentially her legacy really be painted as all that questionable? I get the feeling this last movie will be a sort of love letter to Carrie.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by snufkin on Thu 10 May 2018, 11:50 am

Poe actually plays as the type of morally conflicted in over his head kind of an a**hole character that’s Oscar Isaac’s wheelhouse. It’s just that the story keeps thumping you over the head that you’re *supposed* to like him, that he’s the guy you’re *supposed* to root for. Which is where it falls apart for me because his desire to be a hero helped destroy what little there was of the Resistance and the loss of MVPs like Holdo and Paige. I don’t doubt that IX will double down on his being a hero, but he’s pretty hard for me to take seriously as such. And the fawning over him as a supposed Han Solo and wanting to pair him off with Rey says a lot about how audiences have been conditioned by pop culture trying to emulate the original movies and turning its characters/plot points into cliches.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by IoJovi on Thu 10 May 2018, 1:30 pm

@snufkin wrote:Poe actually plays as the type of morally conflicted in over his head kind of an a**hole character that’s Oscar Isaac’s wheelhouse. It’s just that the story keeps thumping you over the head that you’re *supposed* to like him, that he’s the guy you’re *supposed* to root for. Which is where it falls apart for me because his desire to be a hero helped destroy what little there was of the Resistance and the loss of MVPs like Holdo and Paige. I don’t doubt that IX will double down on his being a hero, but he’s pretty hard for me to take seriously as such. And the fawning over him as a supposed Han Solo and wanting to pair him off with Rey says a lot about how audiences have been conditioned by pop culture trying to emulate the original movies and turning its characters/plot points into cliches.
@snufkin

Yeah I am very much of the mindset that Rey early on is going to realize the Resistance isn't what it's cracked up to be, and has many shortcomings she never expected - it'll absolutely be a wake up call for her. Especially when she gets to know Poe Dameron - you can already see in the Poe comic she is very much less than impressed with him. At best she'll roll her eyes at him. At worst, he'll drive her away from the Resistance and make her question things she thought were true.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 10 May 2018, 1:43 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Poe actually plays as the type of morally conflicted in over his head kind of an a**hole character that’s Oscar Isaac’s wheelhouse. It’s just that the story keeps thumping you over the head that you’re *supposed* to like him, that he’s the guy you’re *supposed* to root for. Which is where it falls apart for me because his desire to be a hero helped destroy what little there was of the Resistance and the loss of MVPs like Holdo and Paige. I don’t doubt that IX will double down on his being a hero, but he’s pretty hard for me to take seriously as such. And the fawning over him as a supposed Han Solo and wanting to pair him off with Rey says a lot about how audiences have been conditioned by pop culture trying to emulate the original movies and turning its characters/plot points into cliches.
@snufkin

Yeah I am very much of the mindset that Rey early on is going to realize the Resistance isn't what it's cracked up to be, and has many shortcomings she never expected - it'll absolutely be a wake up call for her. Especially when she gets to know Poe Dameron - you can already see in the Poe comic she is very much less than impressed with him. At best she'll roll her eyes at him. At worst, he'll drive her away from the Resistance and make her question things she thought were true.
@IoJovi

I couldn't agree more. The Resistance *has to* have some internal conflict or they will be more atrocious than they already are. The movie can't take that kind of dead weight. If they go BFG vs. a Still Burning Villages Kylo, the movie will absolutely fail.

Poe mangled what Holdo said. Rey treats Poe like he's a lounge lizard in the comic. And if that BFG on the MF is not subversive in some way, the series is already done.

TLJ was already the Kylo, Rey and Luke show. If Rey becomes completely entrenched with the Resistance in IX, it will be the Kylo show. Period.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by nickandnora on Thu 10 May 2018, 1:45 pm

Yeah, the fact that hey haven't really utilized Oscar Isaac's strengths properly yet (this kind of yippy-skippy super idealized hero who's impulsive but not otherwise morally conflicted isn't doing him any favours) makes me think there's something interesting in store for him in IX. I mean yeah, it could just be an uncomplicated role and he's happy to be a part of it, but if J.J. has ever seen Show Me a Hero he knows what Oscar is capable of. To me, if I was a director and writer, it makes no sense that I would have Adam Driver AND Oscar Isaac in the same film and not give them *both* something meaty to do. I think/hope there will at least be something a little more interesting for Oscar in IX.


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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 10 May 2018, 1:53 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@snufkin wrote:Poe actually plays as the type of morally conflicted in over his head kind of an a**hole character that’s Oscar Isaac’s wheelhouse. It’s just that the story keeps thumping you over the head that you’re *supposed* to like him, that he’s the guy you’re *supposed* to root for. Which is where it falls apart for me because his desire to be a hero helped destroy what little there was of the Resistance and the loss of MVPs like Holdo and Paige. I don’t doubt that IX will double down on his being a hero, but he’s pretty hard for me to take seriously as such. And the fawning over him as a supposed Han Solo and wanting to pair him off with Rey says a lot about how audiences have been conditioned by pop culture trying to emulate the original movies and turning its characters/plot points into cliches.
@snufkin

Yeah I am very much of the mindset that Rey early on is going to realize the Resistance isn't what it's cracked up to be, and has many shortcomings she never expected - it'll absolutely be a wake up call for her. Especially when she gets to know Poe Dameron - you can already see in the Poe comic she is very much less than impressed with him. At best she'll roll her eyes at him. At worst, he'll drive her away from the Resistance and make her question things she thought were true.
@IoJovi

I find a disconnect between Rey's super cheery handshake at the end of TLJ and the unimpressed Rey in the comics, lol. I think a bunch of people are expecting her to be all starry eyed at Poe based on what we got in the film, when supplementary material is painting a different dynamic between the two. Laughing
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 10 May 2018, 2:10 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
I find a disconnect between Rey's super cheery handshake at the end of TLJ and the unimpressed Rey in the comics, lol. I think a bunch of people are expecting her to be all starry eyed at Poe based on what we got in the film, when supplementary material is painting a different dynamic between the two. Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

After I saw TLJ I had the feeling Rey could possibly have an antagonistic relationship with Poe in IX. Not real enemies of course but that she won't agree with Poe's methods. Especially if Ben isn't the big evil Renperor everyone expected.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 10 May 2018, 2:13 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
I find a disconnect between Rey's super cheery handshake at the end of TLJ and the unimpressed Rey in the comics, lol. I think a bunch of  people are expecting her to be all starry eyed at Poe based on what we got in the film, when supplementary material is painting a different dynamic between the two. Laughing
@Cowgirlsamurai

After I saw TLJ I had the feeling Rey could possibly have an antagonistic relationship with Poe in IX. Not real enemies of course but that she won't agree with Poe's methods. Especially if Ben isn't the big evil Renperor everyone expected.
@Night Huntress

Really? I thought, "Oh God. The beautiful friendship gang is coming." Laughing

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