Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Piper Maru on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 6:06 pm

@snufkin — It also reminds me of Lost in Translation, an almost slice of life story about two people with a considerable age gap and from different lifestyles who find themselves in a foreign country and bond thanks to their feelings of loneliness and isolation. Or Lovers of the Arctic Circle where two young people feel like they're destined to be together and only feel complete/satisfied when they're with each other, and the entire story revolves around the coincidences that bring them together (and also keep them apart).

It's the same dynamic shared by Rey and Ben, and one of the reasons I love their relationship so much. It's more than "you're hot, let's make babies"; these two, against all odds, met and forged this bond. No one else in the galaxy would even get close to this level of intimacy and understanding.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 7:02 pm

I see people keep saying that filming is due to start July 20th (this Friday) but where are they getting that from? As far as I know JJ never specified a specific date. He just said filming would begin near end of July.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by whisperingwillow on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 7:54 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:I see people keep saying that filming is due to start July 20th (this Friday) but where are they getting that from? As far as I know JJ never specified a specific date. He just said filming would begin near end of July.
@Kylo Rey

I can only remember JJ saying at the end of July as well. Obviously, production is picking up but I don't believe a firm date has been announced beyond the end of July.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by snufkin on Mon 16 Jul 2018, 7:57 pm

@Piper Maru Same for why that relationship is what makes the ST because it’s that dynamic. I wish it had been included in this essay that focuses on Columbus but mentions most of those films



One difference as that most of these relationships are seen as transitive, but my sense so far is that the ST is like the Before trilogy in a resolution and commitment happening between these two characters. It certainly doesn’t feel like tragedy because if that were the case, it’d be set up as a relationship like the PT.

ETA -- I just noticed all the likes for the posts where I laid out the two coda scenes with visuals. Y'all want to take a bet? Given the plagiarism from posts in this forum, the SWC videos on Visual Storytelling,  and the recent episode of the Redditor who lifted from Tumblr and then got featured in various clickbait news articles, I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this turns up someplace else. And I don't mean that as a humblebrag, just that content thieves (or "Star Wars expert" if you're Mike Zeroh) have no problem with copying other fans' homework and taking credit for it. Especially when it's fanboys getting credit for what female fans already noticed/discussed/wrote about.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 12:15 am

@snufkin wrote:@Piper Maru Same for why that relationship is what makes the ST because it’s that dynamic. I wish it had been included in this essay that focuses on Columbus but mentions most of those films



One difference as that most of these relationships are seen as transitive, but my sense so far is that the ST is like the Before trilogy in a resolution and commitment happening between these two characters. It certainly doesn’t feel like tragedy because if that were the case, it’d be set up as a relationship like the PT.

ETA -- I just noticed all the likes for the posts where I laid out the two coda scenes with visuals. Y'all want to take a bet? Given the plagiarism from posts in this forum, the SWC videos on Visual Storytelling,  and the recent episode of the Redditor who lifted from Tumblr and then got featured in various clickbait news articles, I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this turns up someplace else. And I don't mean that as a humblebrag, just that content thieves (or "Star Wars expert" if you're Mike Zeroh) have no problem with copying other fans' homework and taking credit for it. Especially when it's fanboys getting credit for what female fans already noticed/discussed/wrote about.
@snufkin

Regrettably, you are probably correct about the analysis plagiarism. It's pathetic when that is done!
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rey09 on Tue 17 Jul 2018, 10:35 pm

@snufkin wrote:@Piper Maru Same for why that relationship is what makes the ST because it’s that dynamic. I wish it had been included in this essay that focuses on Columbus but mentions most of those films



One difference as that most of these relationships are seen as transitive, but my sense so far is that the ST is like the Before trilogy in a resolution and commitment happening between these two characters. It certainly doesn’t feel like tragedy because if that were the case, it’d be set up as a relationship like the PT.

ETA -- I just noticed all the likes for the posts where I laid out the two coda scenes with visuals. Y'all want to take a bet? Given the plagiarism from posts in this forum, the SWC videos on Visual Storytelling,  and the recent episode of the Redditor who lifted from Tumblr and then got featured in various clickbait news articles, I wouldn't be surprised if some version of this turns up someplace else. And I don't mean that as a humblebrag, just that content thieves (or "Star Wars expert" if you're Mike Zeroh) have no problem with copying other fans' homework and taking credit for it. Especially when it's fanboys getting credit for what female fans already noticed/discussed/wrote about.
@snufkin

I literally just finished watching Columbus thanks to this recommendation. What a gorgeous film! Their dynamic was very reylo- about connecting over life pains with that subtle romantic undertone, although here it was pretty subtle and I guess it's left ambiguous on purpose? I have a feeling in years to come they reconnect.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by snufkin on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 12:38 am

@rey09 Glad you checked it out! Kogonada started out doing Video Essays, including one about the Before Trilogy which is now part of the Criterion Collection set for those films. He's also a Paige Tico fan!



And I agree that the relationship is similar, especially when it comes to
Spoiler:
their parents. Casey is holding herself back in a community/role that's stifling her because of a parent with addiction issues (her mother is at least alive and recovering unlike Rey's parents) and Jin is the son of a famous/lauded expert who feels like he was neglected/less favored because of his parent's career. Although one thing I never figured out was what Casey's mother was keeping from her, other than quitting her job and being off doing something else her friend was covering for
.

also Jin is like Ben/Kylo in his relationship to Casey
Spoiler:
because the connection is as much mental as it is emotional. Jin like Ben/Kylo is intrigued by Casey's intelligence and curiosity about the world around her - architecture instead of the Force in this setting. And he pushes her in a similar matter in their back and forth conversations about how she feels about architecture the same way Ben pushes back on Rey in their TLJ conversations to admit what it is that's driving her questions, what she's feeling. Unlike Ben though, his interest and offer to help her isn't self-serving in ultimately having Eleanor (and I thought we were supposed to gather that they'd had a relationship when he was 18 and she was 20 where he was in with her and lost his virginity to her, but she didn't return his feelings) help get her into the university she teaches at and taking her on as a student. Whatever the ultimate nature of Jin's feelings for her, he does help Casey take the steps into a larger world she's been holding herself back from. Which is something that happens in the ST as well, though Rey's education is far more rocky and not the way Mr. "I can show you the ways of the Force" expects it to be (and Luke doesn't really teach her either)
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 12:58 pm

Hi all wasn’t sure if this was the right thread to post this but look at this - so this is the black series art which has kylo and Rey set Which has been unveiled:


And reminds me of the following :







I was like omg The prime Jedi and I honestly think we are gonna get a poster like this for episode 9 because the poster we had for last Jedi was similar (see below ). If we do that would be amazing . We are seeing prime Jedi art everywhere now .
Also seeing it displayed like that gives me feels - kylo has light in the darkness and rey has dark in the light .Kylo seems to be positioned on the light side of the prime Jedi and rey on the dark.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 1:15 pm

@AhsokaTano wrote:Hi all wasn’t sure if this was the right thread to post this but look at this - so this is the black series art which has kylo and Rey set Which has been unveiled:


And reminds me of the following :







I was like omg The prime Jedi and I honestly think we are gonna get a poster like this for episode 9 because the poster we had for last Jedi was similar (see below ). If we do that would be amazing . We are seeing prime Jedi art everywhere now .
Also seeing it displayed like that gives me feels - kylo has light in the darkness and rey has dark in the light .Kylo seems to be positioned on the light side of the prime Jedi and rey on the dark.
@AhsokaTano

Ooh! I think you are onto something! I was nerdy curious with synonyms & word relations, and I recalled that IX's 2nd Unit Director tweeted "Dawn..."...so I nerdy researched Dawn and Prime, and interesting enough, they were a synonym result with Daybreak

https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/daybreak

Dawn and Prime are both synonyms of Daybreak! (Cue hope is like the sun)...Whee! Oh my goodness, I do believe in the marketing and title, they will be obvious about the Ben's redemption (and Rey's importance with that factor).
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by EchoBase on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 1:30 pm

Then there is also this concept art:

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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by Chris24601 on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 1:32 pm

@Lily Snape wrote:
@Saracene wrote:@Chris24601 I think that Rey and Kylo's separate "sidequest" could be a situation where Kylo is imprisoned by the FO after doing some big selfless thing for Rey's sake, and she decides to go and rescue him. If you have Kylo break away from the FO way earlier than the last 15 minutes, you need to introduce a different sort of tension, like "will Kylo die". Or maybe they're both taken prisoners by the FO.
@Saracene

I was hoping for this for TLJ, but I think that for romantic Reylo or even incipient romantic Reylo to happen, it’s kind of a necessity for IX unless they really double down on the Force bond moments.  They need something like the Han/Leia detour on the asteroid in ESB, or what my family refers to as a “field trip with Zuko” from Avatar: the Last Air Bender—the detour with someone important to the character that changes both the individuals and their relationship.  Smile
@Lily Snape
I've been thinking about this and about how they might tie IX back to the entire Skywalker Saga as a whole and what I hit upon was the idea of a still miserable Kylo deciding to seek answers from the one person he believes can truly give them to him; Anakin's Force Ghost. The plot would be that Anakin's ghost hasn't been seen since the end of Return of the Jedi so Kylo decides to slip away from his duties as Renperor to seek out Anakin at various places that were important to Anakin in life.

As a result we'd visit Endor (where he died), Mustafar (where he was transformed), Tattooine (specifically the Lars homestead where Shmi is buried) and, ultimately, Naboo (specifically Padme's tomb) where the final battle will occur. I would further mix in Kylo meeting the Force Ghost of Luke at Vader's pyre on Endor, Leia (possibly as a revelation that Hux has finally tracked her down and killed her if she isn't dead before the movie began... regardless I think she'd be silent and just looking at Ben lovingly... possibly by making use of unused takes from filming Carrie for TLJ) at Shmi's grave on Tattooine and finally Anakin at Padme's grave.

Rey comes into the picture because she's been watching him be torn between the dark and the light over the time since TLJ through their Force bond so she knows he's going off on his own and has received a vision that Kylo's quest is critical to balancing the Force/saving the galaxy and that he will die if she's not by his side. She takes the Falcon and heads off on her own as well.

The action in the plot comes from Hux taking advantage of Kylo's distraction to launch his coup. While Hux moves to crush the Resistance/Rebels with the First Order's military, he also sends a team of Force-sensitive assassins (possibly even the Knights of Ren if the majority of them aren't Luke's former students) led by Keri Russel's character to make sure Kylo never returns from his "sabbatical." Kylo's ship gets destroyed at the first stop so the rest of the quest would be Rey and Kylo aboard the Falcon with more and more assassins showing up at each stop along the way.

Ultimately, Anakin's Force Ghost at Padme's tomb would be used to turn the subtext of Reylo as reverse Anidala into overt text for the truly dense viewers out there and the resolution would involve Ben and Rey taking back control of the First Order (in the middle of a huge pitched space battle) so that Ben can then surrender all the power to Rey (thus the final battle ends not with a huge explosion, but with the guns of both sides falling silent) whose solitary act as Empress of the Galaxy is to disband said Empire by granting every world its freedom (i.e. not bringing back the Republic, but allowing each world to follow its own path).

Then you full circle the thing to a liberation parade on Naboo (episode I ending) where all the heroes are present with cross-cuts to celebrations across the galaxy (episode VI ending) and finally to Rey and Ben alone together looking out at the future/rising sun as the Force theme plays (episode III ending).

It's ENTIRELY possible I've thought a bit TOO much about this. geek

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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 1:33 pm

@SW_Heroine_journey
@Echobase
Wow ! The prime Jedi I love you Smile

Sent from Topic'it App
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 2:16 pm

There was an interesting point I spotted on Clairen45's tumblr.  https://clairen45.tumblr.com/

That was originally posted by postedbygaslight http://postedbygaslight.tumblr.com/post/175896737292

That R2-D2 knows what happened the night Ben destroyed the temple.  Clairen45 then reposted with the comment "In that line, I find it super interesting that R2D2 and BB8 are given narrating voices about the characters and the story in issue 28 from the Poe Dameron comic…"

Then with L3's focus in the Solo movie - there is a focus on the importance of droids...their opinion...their story.  Hmmm..

You know...I do wonder if R2D2 only awakened to complete the map (TFA), and to push for action in TLJ (when he reminded Luke of the message from Leia) to save Ben in the end.  Sure, it was great to be reunited with Luke again...but all this....is for Ben because R2D2 knows the truth, and wants to help Ben. Very Happy Smile

PS I am excited about the Lucasfilm presence at Comic Con (although small) with the 10 yr celebration of Clone Wars, and Lucasfilm Press..upcoming books, because I am curious about what cookie crumbs they will reveal. haha
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rey09 on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 4:31 pm

@snufkin wrote:@rey09 Glad you checked it out! Kogonada started out doing Video Essays, including one about the Before Trilogy which is now part of the Criterion Collection set for those films. He's also a Paige Tico fan!



And I agree that the relationship is similar, especially when it comes to
Spoiler:
their parents. Casey is holding herself back in a community/role that's stifling her because of a parent with addiction issues (her mother is at least alive and recovering unlike Rey's parents) and Jin is the son of a famous/lauded expert who feels like he was neglected/less favored because of his parent's career. Although one thing I never figured out was what Casey's mother was keeping from her, other than quitting her job and being off doing something else her friend was covering for
.

also Jin is like Ben/Kylo in his relationship to Casey
Spoiler:
because the connection is as much mental as it is emotional. Jin like Ben/Kylo is intrigued by Casey's intelligence and curiosity about the world around her - architecture instead of the Force in this setting. And he pushes her in a similar matter in their back and forth conversations about how she feels about architecture the same way Ben pushes back on Rey in their TLJ conversations to admit what it is that's driving her questions, what she's feeling. Unlike Ben though, his interest and offer to help her isn't self-serving in ultimately having Eleanor (and I thought we were supposed to gather that they'd had a relationship when he was 18 and she was 20 where he was in with her and lost his virginity to her, but she didn't return his feelings) help get her into the university she teaches at and taking her on as a student. Whatever the ultimate nature of Jin's feelings for her, he does help Casey take the steps into a larger world she's been holding herself back from. Which is something that happens in the ST as well, though Rey's education is far more rocky and not the way Mr. "I can show you the ways of the Force" expects it to be (and Luke doesn't really teach her either)
@snufkin

Yes I totally agree with everything! I thought this scene was so reminiscent of shirtless kylo scene
Spoiler:
When they are in the tunnel and she confronts him on why he would rather have his father die while she is putting her whole life on hold for her mother. It was very much like when Rey asked why he killed his father when she herself would've have died to have his parents. Basically how could you even imagine doing one thing when here I am doing/wanting the total opposite. In regards to her mom, I thought it was that her mom met a guy at work and was basically staying the night with him? Casey said her mom had a knack for getting with assholes so Casey was worried her mom would relapse again into her meth addiction.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by snufkin on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 6:20 pm

@rey09 OMG yes, I absolutely thought of the shirtless scene in that one moment/confrontation because
Spoiler:
it's absolutely the same mix of emotions for Jin. He resents how his father's professional ambitions took priority over their relationship and while he's there out of a sense of obligation as the next-of-kin and cultural expectations, he'd rather that his father die there so that he doesn't have to confront everything in that relationship he's been avoiding. It even feels like maybe it was Elenor who got that type of attention from his father, as her teacher (Jedi Master) and mentor.

And that makes sense about Casey's mother. I didn't think that she'd lapsed into using again, just that she was doing something that cut Casey out of her life and that was something Casey couldn't control. Which is how she contrasts with Jin, she'd do anything for her mother (the same way Rey waited on Jakku after blacking out the memory of her parents abandoning her and dying) regardless of logic or self-preservation because it's her comfort zone, something she can control, and how she defines herself as a good person. In comparison with Jin, who doesn't want to be there with his father, but does learn from his relationship with her to come to terms with his emotions and take on that responsibility. The two of them have literally switched places at the end, though in better places emotionally.

On a side note, maybe if Keri Russell is one of JJ's return players he can also have John Cho in IX? I was just talking about this film with a friend of mine who also just saw it and we were like, John Cho for all the things. He's so good and it's ridiculous (well, not ridiculous because institutionalized racism) that he doesn't get more roles and attention that the Chrises because he's so much better and so much hotter. He's amazing here because if you see him on TV, he's so witty and outgoing and here, very sullen and moody. It's a side of him that you typically don't see in any of his roles. And while the main relationship is with Casey, he's also so good with Parker Posey as Eleanor. Like if they were going to do that remake of The Thin Man, I'd want him to be Nick Charles because he'd kill it and look so damn good in those suits.
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Re: Episode IX: Spoilers and Rumors

Post by rey09 on Wed 18 Jul 2018, 7:22 pm

@snufkin wrote:@rey09 OMG yes, I absolutely thought of the shirtless scene in that one moment/confrontation because
Spoiler:
it's absolutely the same mix of emotions for Jin. He resents how his father's professional ambitions took priority over their relationship and while he's there out of a sense of obligation as the next-of-kin and cultural expectations, he'd rather that his father die there so that he doesn't have to confront everything in that relationship he's been avoiding. It even feels like maybe it was Elenor who got that type of attention from his father, as her teacher (Jedi Master) and mentor.

And that makes sense about Casey's mother. I didn't think that she'd lapsed into using again, just that she was doing something that cut Casey out of her life and that was something Casey couldn't control. Which is how she contrasts with Jin, she'd do anything for her mother (the same way Rey waited on Jakku after blacking out the memory of her parents abandoning her and dying) regardless of logic or self-preservation because it's her comfort zone, something she can control, and how she defines herself as a good person. In comparison with Jin, who doesn't want to be there with his father, but does learn from his relationship with her to come to terms with his emotions and take on that responsibility. The two of them have literally switched places at the end, though in better places emotionally.

On a side note, maybe if Keri Russell is one of JJ's return players he can also have John Cho in IX? I was just talking about this film with a friend of mine who also just saw it and we were like, John Cho for all the things. He's so good and it's ridiculous (well, not ridiculous because institutionalized racism) that he doesn't get more roles and attention that the Chrises because he's so much better and so much hotter. He's amazing here because if you see him on TV, he's so witty and outgoing and here, very sullen and moody. It's a side of him that you typically don't see in any of his roles. And while the main relationship is with Casey, he's also so good with Parker Posey as Eleanor. Like if they were going to do that remake of The Thin Man, I'd want him to be Nick Charles because he'd kill it and look so damn good in those suits.
@snufkin

Wow my brain is exploding from the similarities!!! Like damn.... I wonder if Kogonada has made the connection?! Same freaking dynamic WOW.

I've only seen John Cho in Star Trek lol I think like 2 of them, I'd love to see him in SW! I wonder if he'd sign up for yet another sci fi franchise although it is still SW.



-------

http://www.reyloskyforum.net/viewtopic.forum?t=836
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