The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 5:06 pm

@SoloSideCousin wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
previous comment :
@SoloSideCousin – I’m always excited to learn more about the novels as I haven’t read them. Haven’t brought myself to pay the money! Whereas comics I can source free..

Anyway so it’s great to learn more of the events in bloodline. I am not across all the details, but it’s interesting to consider the unfolding events and the state of the force.
I wonder if the new republic was not a success because it did not have force users in the role of peacekeepers.
Also, I see the failings of the government in the PTs as having many contributing factors – but the big driving force was Darth Sidious/ the resurrection of the Sith/ and the corrupting influence of the dark side.
Yes the system was not without flaws – I’m thinking evil got a foothold and much of what unfolded was directly related to the machinations of Darth Sidious. The blockades, the response, the conflict about what to do about it.. he was behind all of it playing them like a fiddle so he could ascend to become emperor.

I don’t think the message of SW is that democracy is a failed experiment whose time has passed.

I don’t know very much about the new republic.. Can you tell me where you learned about Mon Moathma’s republic? The New republic sounds a little like the European union – maybe with rotating leadership..

I would agree that being led by personality is not going to lead to successful governance..
Whatever the resistance/rebellion is fighting for I think it will be a democracy, which is not dependant on a strong personality to see it through. I have ideas about how this could end but I’ll just say that in TLJ we aren’t really given any clues -other than Holdo’s line about restoring the republic.

It’s interesting to hear your thoughts of what went wrong with the new republic SoloSideCousin.

Can I check if I have understood correctly the events leading up to TFA?
If I have understood correctly, the remnants of the empire signed a treaty, then went off to the outer rim to regroup, rebrand and reestablish themselves as the FO under Snoke.
Again, I think Dark Side Snoke was left to collect evil, to build up evil – and former empire members taught the next generation that the old republic was evil and had to be stopped.. [we learned Hux was raised with these beliefs].
Leia didn’t trust the treaty to be honoured.
The new republic was naïve/overly optimistic and didn’t believe the FO or old empire were a threat.

The starwars databank says: “After the Battle of Endor, the New Republic reached an uneasy peace with the remnants of the Galactic Empire. Believing the Empire was no longer a threat, the New Republic reduced its military capabilities, despite Leia’s warning that the Imperial remnants could not be trusted. When her concerns were dismissed as paranoid warmongering, Leia formed the Resistance, a secret military force that keeps watch on the restive First Order.” [Leia entry]

Anyway, it seems the new republic reduced the military, but had no Jedi to act as peacekeepers either.
but.. we had this in TFA opening crawl:
"With the support of the REPUBLIC, General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. She is desperate to find her brother Luke and gain his help in restoring peace and justice to the galaxy."
-Interesting that Leia thought Luke was needed to restore peace and justice.
Reminds me of of LST saying without the Jedi there can be no balance..

-the mentioned 'support of the republic' is interesting too...seems the new republic tried to have it both ways - reduce the military, and then they hit the panic button and started to show an interest in supporting Leia when the FO's true colours were revealed. Have I understood this correctly?

The Jedi were not playing the role of peacekeepers in the galaxy from the end of ROTS.… from ANH to ROTJ there was the resurrection of the jedi with Luke's coming of age.. Then, after ROTJ, Luke was off on his quest, and then eventually tried to start a new order – but this was snuffed out by Ben [Under the influence of Snoke].
I wonder if the war is in part because the Jedi have not been in this role.. And is this a reason why Snoke was instrumental in Luke’s new jedi order ending? And why he wanted so badly to kill Luke Skywalker? Is this because of the Jedi role as galaxy peacekeepers?
The future role of force users in the galaxy and how they would work with government and the people is a curious one.. At least it is to me haaa. Part of what could have been missing in the new republic was balanced Jedi to watch out for lack of balance in the galaxy/ the rise of evil/ and to act as peacekeepers…
Just pondering – this is all new thoughts for me!

Oh and one last thing..
the star wars databank for the new republic is very slim on details.. but it states this:
"The Rebel Alliance became the New Republic after its victory over the Empire at the Battle of Endor. Eager to win over the war-weary citizens of the galaxy, the New Republic revived the Senate, signed a peace treaty – the Galactic Concordance – with the Empire’s remnants, and drastically reduced its military capabilities. That policy aroused the ire of rebel hero Leia Organa, who warned that elements of the Empire were still seeking power. Sidelined from the political process, Organa founded the Resistance to oppose the Empire’s successor state, the mysterious First Order."
- Leia being sidelined from the political process is interesting..
Okay I gotta run bye!
@DeeBee

Okay, you have talked about a lot of stuff here.  My first bit of advice is to check the books out at the library.  If you are really interested in the government machinations of the New Republic, you need to read Bloodline and the Aftermath books.  There is too much going on to lay it out in a post.


Ohhh I’m sorry SoloSideCousin – I didn’t intend to pile on the questions here lol. I really should have thrown these questions out there for anyone who is able to answer or interested in discussing.
But, thanks for your reply! I might see if I can get audiobooks.. My eyes need a rest! Thanks for recommending Bloodline and Aftermath.



@SoloSideCousin wrote:  Secondly, the databank excerpts are very misleading.  

I think the databank needs to be understood in the wider context, and I would not consider it an overruling authority. From what I’m reading nothing the databank said is contradicted – but it doesn’t give the full story. Which is to be expected. Good for me to be reminded of that.


@SoloSideCousin wrote:   Mon Mothma did reduce the military resources of the New Republic in a seemingly extreme way.  I believe that Leia did disagree with that at the time, but it was only after 20+ years that Leia started the Resistance.  Also, keep in mind that Leia started this extra-governmental paramilitary group while the Republic was still in existence, and she did it after she had been outed as Vader's daughter and lost her political credibility.  Further, she turned towards a violent option when non-violent messaging campaigns might have been a very viable option.


Yeah I had gotten the impression that the resistance was started at first without the new republic’s approval… Leia fought the fight for a long time – I can see why in TLJ she would have been so weary of all the loss…
Interesting thoughts on Leia’s seeming preference for the ‘violent option’ – I wonder if this was in response to the extreme de-militarisation. Okay I really need to read these books!
My impression of Leia is that she thought there was a time and place for war – but she valued peace. She grew up in Alderaan where they are ‘peaceful and have no weapons’ – and for this reason she thought they should be highly valued I think..


@SoloSideCousin wrote:  Thirdly, if you read the books, the Jedi getting involved with political affairs was a serious issue as to why they became corrupted and fell.  In addition, a proper republic should not rely on a group of religious policeman to keep order.  That is not a republic.  If you look at the progression of political theory in our world over the past 300 years, governmental structures have reached their most advanced point where parliamentary/republican systems have largely divorced themselves from religious influence.  And as a Catholic, I say right now that no religion should have anything to do with the government, that the government needs to rely on its own merits and its own structures and not any significant religious interference.  (Like yes, Queen Elizabeth is the head of the Church of England, but the Prime Minister and Parliament don't check in with the Archbishop of Canterbury every time they pass a law).


Okay! Now I really need to read these books! There is this real tension in the SW universe – in wider legends stuff which covers the origins of the force (which I think Canon has not included yet?) there were big issues with how force users and non force users could co-exist… in Canon there is the big issue of how to best position force users in the universe to support peace and prosperity. Impartiality/ Neutrality seems to at times be the ideal the Jedi are held to.. and the explanation for why things went wrong in the PT. But.. I’m not sure that’s what the ST is saying.. but maybe this is not the thread for a wider discussion on that.


@SoloSideCousin wrote:  Finally, I don't think that I ever said that democracy would be taken off the table in Episode IX.  That would never happen because SW is not going to be advocating dictatorships.  However, the actual political structure of the two republics was inane.  In the Old Republic, there seemed to be no procedure or check and balances, nor did that government seem to have any "teeth" to actually accomplish anything.  I mean it seems like they didn't even have an army even if they even chose to defend Naboo.  Instead, they relied on religious police, one of whom decided that making a bunch of soldier clones was a good thing.


I didn’t think you were saying democracy would be taken off the table for IX. Sorry if my comments gave that meaning. I was commenting on possible implications of the new republic not working out – not on your specific comments. But I’m glad you addressed my comment if you had interpreted it as a direct response to you, so I could clarify. Sounds like we are on the same page here – I’m agreeing with all this! Governance needs to be wise – to expect the galaxy to naturally keep law and order is maybe a little naïve! The new republic failed to address evil and to protect it’s citizens.


@SoloSideCousin wrote:  In the New Republic, they dissolved most of their army, even though they had just come out of a civil war situation.  They also don't seem to have done anything to reincorporate those who sympathized with the Empire back into the fold. I mean where did all those Imperial officers/contract workers go?   Most of them didn't get on a ship to the Unknown Regions.  So I guess they went home pissed off and quiet until talk of something called the First Order came around.

IMO, it seemed very much like a post-WWI situation where those Empire people were just told to get used to the new world and that's that.  In other words, there is no evidence of any kind of Marshall Plan happening here.  Nor a Reconciliation plan, such as seen in South Africa.  Also, the Senate just seems inane.  There is not an actual leader of the government.  No president.  No Prime Minister.  No Coalition Leader. No Speaker of the House.  Most countries that are deemed to be democracies are actually technically not.  They are republics, which means that there are leaders and procedures and charters/constitutions that create a set of rules that actually facilitate the legislative process.  The New Republic seemed to have none of that.  It seems like Mon Mothma played the de facto leader, but when she got sick it all fell apart, because everything was based on her talent of holding things together, and that was the case because apparently there were no rules that provided for layers of leadership and no structures in place for the peaceful transition of power.   Instead, it all seems very "tribal council-ish" IMO.  As such, as a republic, IMO, they were not very advanced at all.  The Galaxy could do a lot better governmental structure-wise.

@SoloSideCousin

Sounds good to me! Thanks for sharing!
Yeah I wonder if the de-militarisation is partly explained by the ‘war-weary citizens’ – everyone may have wanted to pretend now the ideal of the republic was back that everything would be rosey. I’m thinking the galaxy had not learned it’s lessons from history that it needed to!

I wonder if Leia saw it this way too.. but the vader legacy got in the way of her message being heard.
Yeah it’s a cautionary tale relevant to a possible ending for IX – a republic is not a utopia. I think Padme would have said – when it is in place, democracy can’t be taken for granted- it needs to be protected..

LOL I’m picturing all those tense family dinners with grumpy men complaining about the downfall of the empire!


@giaciak2 wrote:Dear, I loved what you wrote and historical comparisons. Unfortunately my elementary English limits the expression of my thoughts. I agree with your analysis. I think Star Wars will carry forward the dream of democracy. The freedom of a constitution very similar to the American constitution. We are all the same. There is no race or religion ... ecc ecc. In short, those that are Western values. But I also see in it the emphasis of the French revolution "freedom, legality, equality". This is because: 1) no religion must dominate the law 2) There should be no slavery 3) Jedi of light and dark Jedi have to sit both at that table.
The sense is that everyone - nobody excluded - must participate in the peace process. If peace is wanted, everyone must participate to peace. For this . Until there is someone who suffers. There will never be peace.  Sorry for my english!!!!!!

@giaciak2
Hi giaciak2, was this comment directed at SoloSideCousin? If there is anything you’d like re-worded just ask and I’m sure someone will be happy to help.

I agree the western values of all being the same are very important in SW.. I loved your three points there! I think the trouble comes when not everyone wants peace – for some, war is a goal in and of itself.. but with this in mind, government needs to manage this…  

I bristle at the dialogue about Rey’s parents being ‘nobody’ – because they were drunk junk dealers who sold their daughter.. and Rey being viewed by the galaxy (but apparently not by Kylo/Ben) as nobody because of it. Everybody is somebody – yes even those alcoholic parents who sell their children... we are not ‘somebody’ because of what we do, or who our parents are, or because we are force users – we are somebody because we live. I’ve not seen this discussed.. Rey is not suddenly a somebody because she has amazing force abilities.. or because Kylo/Ben sees her as somebody. She already was somebody!

True compassion would see drunk ‘nobodies’ being offered help and forgiveness – second or third chances aren’t just deserved by force users.  
Just to be clear: I’m not saying there should be no justice and no consequences for someone’s actions.. the galaxy needs justice.
Oops sorry this is maybe a bit of a tangent. I wonder if IX is going to dig into this more as the story of the force in the universe, and valuing living things will likely be part of the conclusion of the ST…. Interesting times ahead.
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 5:47 am

@DeeBee

I like this : I agree the western values of all being the same are very important in SW.. I loved your three points there! I think the trouble comes when not everyone wants peace – for some, war is a goal in and of itself.. but with this in mind, government needs to manage this…

I bristle at the dialogue about Rey’s parents being ‘nobody’ – because they were drunk junk dealers who sold their daughter.. and Rey being viewed by the galaxy (but apparently not by Kylo/Ben) as nobody because of it. Everybody is somebody – yes even those alcoholic parents who sell their children... we are not ‘somebody’ because of what we do, or who our parents are, or because we are force users – we are somebody because we live. I’ve not seen this discussed.. Rey is not suddenly a somebody because she has amazing force abilities.. or because Kylo/Ben sees her as somebody. She already was somebody!

True compassion would see drunk ‘nobodies’ being offered help and forgiveness – second or third chances aren’t just deserved by force users.
Just to be clear: I’m not saying there should be no justice and no consequences for someone’s actions.. the galaxy needs justice.
Oops sorry this is maybe a bit of a tangent. I wonder if IX is going to dig into this more as the story of the force in the universe, and valuing living things will likely be part of the conclusion of the ST…. Interesting times ahead.



During weekend I read this forum from my mobile and I don't see the buttons. My answer was more emotional. It was not aimed at anyone , but I wanted express what came to my mind by reading more considerations.

Your considerations are beautiful
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:54 am

Am I the only one who thinks the toffee nosed who believe SW is simply mindless entertainment should check out the intense and obviously intelligent analysis on these pages?
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 11:04 am

@motherofpearl1 ha ha ah you are right!
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee on Sat 24 Feb 2018, 12:59 am

Hi All, just was looking at the SW databank and the entry for the resistance. I"m not sure if this has been updated but I noticed something new
"A small, secretive private military force, the Resistance was founded by rebel hero Leia Organa to monitor the actions of the First Order. Most New Republic power brokers tolerate the Resistance while regarding Organa and her fighters as dead-enders with an unfortunate fixation on the past. Organa’s cash-strapped movement relies on credits, ships and equipment quietly funneled to it from the few senators who share her concerns."
-I'll include the blurb so if it is updated in future we can refer back to it and compare.

I just noticed the reference to new republic power brokers..
& that it was a few senators who were helping out the resistance before the new republic was blown up. Not officially the new republic. that clears things up a little for me!
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee on Fri 02 Mar 2018, 10:30 pm

@giaciak2 wrote:@DeeBee

I like this : I agree the western values of all being the same are very important in SW.. I loved your three points there! I think the trouble comes when not everyone wants peace – for some, war is a goal in and of itself.. but with this in mind, government needs to manage this…  

@DeeBee wrote: I bristle at the dialogue about Rey’s parents being ‘nobody’ – because they were drunk junk dealers who sold their daughter.. and Rey being viewed by the galaxy (but apparently not by Kylo/Ben) as nobody because of it. Everybody is somebody – yes even those alcoholic parents who sell their children... we are not ‘somebody’ because of what we do, or who our parents are, or because we are force users – we are somebody because we live. I’ve not seen this discussed.. Rey is not suddenly a somebody because she has amazing force abilities.. or because Kylo/Ben sees her as somebody. She already was somebody!

True compassion would see drunk ‘nobodies’ being offered help and forgiveness – second or third chances aren’t just deserved by force users.  
Just to be clear: I’m not saying there should be no justice and no consequences for someone’s actions.. the galaxy needs justice.
Oops sorry this is maybe a bit of a tangent. I wonder if IX is going to dig into this more as the story of the force in the universe, and valuing living things will likely be part of the conclusion of the ST…. Interesting times ahead.

During weekend I read this forum from my mobile and I don't see the buttons. My answer was more emotional. It was not aimed at anyone , but I wanted express what came to my mind by reading more considerations.

Your considerations are beautiful
@giaciak2

Whoa! It is wonderful to hear from you – but that blue writing gives me a migraine giaciak2! Lol. Oh I see that’s me you are quoting with the colour. I've updated the formatting here in my reply.
I haven’t had much SW time lately.. and I figure these conversations in specific threads can continue on for years! Lol.
I was feeling a bit pensive about the value of human life and what makes someone valuable or a somebody in SW so far, I am not sure it will be addressed in IX. I hope it will be…

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Am I the only one who thinks the toffee nosed who believe SW is simply mindless entertainment should check out the intense and obviously intelligent analysis on these pages?
@motherofpearl1
LOL! Well.. one person’s intelligent analysis is another person’s insane ramblings – but if my comments don’t seem like insane ramblings, then I’m happy haaaa.

There has been much discussion in the general discussion thread of TLJ lately, too much for me to reply specifically at this point, and too time consuming to pull together. Sorry. lol.
But lots of diverse views of the resistance, Rey and her commitment to the resistance have been raised and I've had a few thoughts jumping around about it that I’ll briefly share about 1) Rey and the resistance & 2) Cheering for the resistance.

1) Rey and the resistance
A few brief points about this (without detailing my reasons).
At the start of TLJ: Rey’s priority is to sort out what to do with the awakened force powers… and to recruit Luke to the resistance- I think she feels an affiliation with the resistance for many reasons.
At the end of TLJ: Rey’s priority is to restablish the jedi order (a new jedi order not the old version), and through this, support the cause of the resistance. I think by the end of TLJ Rey’s affiliation with the resistance has further strengthened IMHO into a solid commitment. Why is addressed in 2)

2) Cheering for the resistance
So why does the resistance seems meh at the end of TLJ?
-the resistance seems meh if we look at what they achieved in TLJ – looking dumb and reckless/ and running for their lives... [I could write more but I’ll restrain myself!]
However, IMHO it is when we look at what the resistance values and what they are fighting for that they become interesting and worth routing for.
Yes the galactic republic ended in failure, and so did the new republic.. but this does not mean the values of liberty, equality and fraternity are not worth fighting for.
Both versions of the republic saw planets in the galaxy where slavery persisted, and people suffered without the assistance of the republic. But this does not mean that the values and goals of the republic were not worthwhile. The republics made mistakes, and were imperfect – but their values and goals are (IMHO) still worth fighting for. There is a hope that the galaxy can be better if these values are upheld.
Which ties in to Rey – growing up on Jakku – without the benefit of an effective republic governing her planet, I think for her what the republic represented and valued gave her hope… that one day that way of life would reach her too, and that there was another, better way of living than what she experienced growing up.
I can see why tales of the rebellion defeating the empire, luke skywalker myths, and meeting a resistance fighter would make her so giddy and hopeful.
Some may see Rey’s tough life as a reason for her to not believe in the republic. I think the story tells us that this is the reason she believes in a republic.
Rey’s values line up with the rebellion/resistance – and this is one reason why she turns down Kylo/Ben’s offer in the throne room.

As I said previously – I don’ t believe the message of SW is that democracy is a failed experiment. But nor is the message that it is a magical solution that makes governance easy…
And dictatorships can make governance easy – but that doesn’t make it right. I don’t think GL was advocating for dictatorships or the concentration of power without checks and balances – I think he was advocating for the opposite. [ This is all IMHO -  SW audiences living in dictatorships will have an interesting take on this I’m sure!]

The first order is merciless, tyrannical, exploitative, does not value humanity nor the downtrodden. It does not care about human suffering. They value destroying what you hate.
The resistance values freedom and the end of human suffering. It is egalitarian,  and values peaceful communities working together for the common good – for all. They value saving what you love.

I’d even suggest that the first order values power and domination =  imbalance.. and the republic/ resistance values freedom = balance  Smile
I think the lack of politics in the ST so far has led to these values getting lost in the story telling a little.. (thus why the resistance feels meh – not enough emphasis on values).
When I refocus back on the values that are at stake here I can begin to find the rebellion less meh. Disney may be trying to avoid the political aspects so the ST can have a broader international appeal – but there is no avoiding the values that each side in this war are fighting for. Even though Kylo/Ben is now the SL – and I am routing for his character, I can’t champion what the FO values. Put me on the resistance side! [And what Kylo/Ben truly values is a big cliff hanger to be revealed in IX!]
I’ve tried to be brief here – honest!  Embarassed
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 2:46 am

Hello.. its been ages since this thread got any love!
Thought I'd share a few random thoughts or ideas about things that can be used in the resistance's favour in IX.. (or that may mean absolutely nothing ha!)
Three things:
1) BB-8 may be key. It may be significant in IX that BB-8 made it onto the supremacy..
Chapter 26 of the novelisation reveals what happened to BB-8 once Finn, Rose and DJ were captured.. lol Seems no one noticed him. ha!
BB-8 had considered trying to complete the mission. He  'jacked into the first order network'. But he found he couldn't shut down the hyperspace tracking without manually doing it.. so he couldn't complete the mission. The interesting bit here to me was: BB-8 jacked into the network on the supremacy! We didn't see that in the movie.
This is just like R2D2 on the first death star - we later learned that when R2D2 jacked into the death star files he also  downloaded the Imperial archives. It could be that BB-8 has gathered a whole stack of information from his time on the Supremacy that is going to be very useful for the resistance in IX!

2) Hux really really really hates Poe!
I hadn't realised Hux's particular, personal dislike of Poe, or that he even really knew who he was - or that Poe had been the one to blow up Hux's pride and joy - starkiller! whooooo. Hux is a distracted little hothead when it comes to Poe! haaa (maybe Hux has a crush?! what is that 'Pux'?! haaaaa)
Here's a quote from page 31: (Poe initiates communication over the radio with Hugs):
"Attention, this is Commander Poe Dameron of the Republic fleet." the voice said "I have an urgent communique for General Hugs."
Hux felt all eyes turning his way, and red threatening to bloom in his cheeks. He knew that pilot's name all too well - Dameron had fired the shot that destroyed Starkiller Base, and he'd been an irritant long before that. Hux had sworn he'd see the pilot back on a First Order torture rack one day soon - and that this time he'd oversee the interrogation personally."
The resistance can use this!
3) The resistance still has resources. (other than the last jedi, a piece of junk and a dozen or so people)
The novelisation says: (page 267)
" Most of the alliance's military secrets had been turned over to the New Republic immediately after its formation, and had proven critical in the short, savage war against the remnants of the Empire. But Leia, Ackbar, and other rebel leaders had made sure to keep a few things back, as a safeguard against disaster. Their secret files contained navicomputer data for secret hyperspace routes, the location of rebel safeworlds, and any number of bolt-holes and equipment caches. Without them, the Resistance would have ceased to exist soon after its formation."
- this is cool... so it sounds like the resistance has a few options up it's secretive sleeves!

Holdo's thoughts as she watches Leia and the transports fly toward Crait also curious.. (page 226):
"With her people safe, Leia would know what to do - she always did. She would summon their allies, find a new base of operations, and quietly work to turn the New Republic's planetary defense forces and home fleets into a force capable of opposing Snoke and his generals. Into a new rebellion."
- this reference to New Republic's planetary defense forces and home fleets is interesting - althought he allies didn't respond, it seems there may be forces out there that can in time be collected up to help form a new rebellion.

I do hope though that it is not just a straight up direct battle between the resistance and the FO. I get the vibe here that others are also a bit jaded with the little resistance defeats big bad evil thing.
I really liked the passages on Crait where Poe has learned that a direct fight is not the only option and that choosing another option can also be brave (page 298) - I can quote it if you don't have the book.
It hints to me that in IX they may be employing more different tactics.. and maybe infiltrating the FO...
Hope you guys don't mind me sharing random thoughts... It's been ages since I've really thought about the resistance!
Thoughts anyone?  cheers
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by Starliteprism on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 3:53 pm

@DeeBee wrote:Hello.. its been ages since this thread got any love!
Thought I'd share a few random thoughts or ideas about things that can be used in the resistance's favour in IX.. (or that may mean absolutely nothing ha!)
Three things:
1) BB-8 may be key. It may be significant in IX that BB-8 made it onto the supremacy..
Chapter 26 of the novelisation reveals what happened to BB-8 once Finn, Rose and DJ were captured.. lol Seems no one noticed him. ha!
BB-8 had considered trying to complete the mission. He  'jacked into the first order network'. But he found he couldn't shut down the hyperspace tracking without manually doing it.. so he couldn't complete the mission. The interesting bit here to me was: BB-8 jacked into the network on the supremacy! We didn't see that in the movie.
This is just like R2D2 on the first death star - we later learned that when R2D2 jacked into the death star files he also  downloaded the Imperial archives. It could be that BB-8 has gathered a whole stack of information from his time on the Supremacy that is going to be very useful for the resistance in IX!

2) Hux really really really hates Poe!
I hadn't realised Hux's particular, personal dislike of Poe, or that he even really knew who he was - or that Poe had been the one to blow up Hux's pride and joy - starkiller! whooooo. Hux is a distracted little hothead when it comes to Poe! haaa (maybe Hux has a crush?! what is that 'Pux'?! haaaaa)
Here's a quote from page 31: (Poe initiates communication over the radio with Hugs):
"Attention, this is Commander Poe Dameron of the Republic fleet." the voice said "I have an urgent communique for General Hugs."
Hux felt all eyes turning his way, and red threatening to bloom in his cheeks. He knew that pilot's name all too well - Dameron had fired the shot that destroyed Starkiller Base, and he'd been an irritant long before that. Hux had sworn he'd see the pilot back on a First Order torture rack one day soon - and that this time he'd oversee the interrogation personally."
The resistance can use this!
3) The resistance still has resources. (other than the last jedi, a piece of junk and a dozen or so people)
The novelisation says: (page 267)
" Most of the alliance's military secrets had been turned over to the New Republic immediately after its formation, and had proven critical in the short, savage war against the remnants of the Empire. But Leia, Ackbar, and other rebel leaders had made sure to keep a few things back, as a safeguard against disaster. Their secret files contained navicomputer data for secret hyperspace routes, the location of rebel safeworlds, and any number of bolt-holes and equipment caches. Without them, the Resistance would have ceased to exist soon after its formation."
- this is cool... so it sounds like the resistance has a few options up it's secretive sleeves!

Holdo's thoughts as she watches Leia and the transports fly toward Crait also curious.. (page 226):
"With her people safe, Leia would know what to do - she always did. She would summon their allies, find a new base of operations, and quietly work to turn the New Republic's planetary defense forces and home fleets into a force capable of opposing Snoke and his generals. Into a new rebellion."
- this reference to New Republic's planetary defense forces and home fleets is interesting - althought he allies didn't respond, it seems there may be forces out there that can in time be collected up to help form a new rebellion.

I do hope though that it is not just a straight up direct battle between the resistance and the FO. I get the vibe here that others are also a bit jaded with the little resistance defeats big bad evil thing.
I really liked the passages on Crait where Poe has learned that a direct fight is not the only option and that choosing another option can also be brave (page 298) - I can quote it if you don't have the book.
It hints to me that in IX they may be employing more different tactics.. and maybe infiltrating the FO...
Hope you guys don't mind me sharing random thoughts... It's been ages since I've really thought about the resistance!
Thoughts anyone?  cheers
@DeeBee

Makes a little more sense, in that he was able to control that AT-ST, our little BB-8. Laughing
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee on Thu 17 May 2018, 6:39 pm

Hello. Hoping this is the right place to put this.. starwars databank has updated Poe's entry - his main page now covers his story right through to the end of TLJ. See the link below if you are interested in seeing it all..
Just thought I'd share one of the new slides to comment:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/poe-dameron

What I find most curious is the reference to Poe being chastened by Holdo's sacrifice of her life to buy them time to escape.
I would have liked to see more of that on screen.. (YMMV) and I think judging by recent comments in the takodana general discussion thread about the new Poe comics which have content post TLJ - someone forgot to tell the comic's writers that the best pilot in the galaxy was 'chastened' rofl.
I do hope this idea is carried on into IX!

While I'm in this thread just thought I'd mention that about a week ago the main summary blurb for the resistance was updated on the databank too..
The last sentence has been added:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/the-resistance

I'm sharing this as I think it's interesting that it confirms they are now down to a 'handful' of freedom fighters.

I can't remember where on this forum (sorry) but over the last week on my commute, I've seen discussion about the resistance in IX...
When we think back to how the rebellion were handled in the OT - I'm thinking we didn't get much detail about their organisation or how they operated.. and I was fine with that.
I find them a bit dull and prefer to just focus on the main resistance players..
Sounds like recruiting dodgy members and using questionable methods was done in Rogue one, exploring ambiguity and infighting/mutiny was done in TLJ, selfish and reckless leadership was done in TLJ, mansplaining was done in TLJ, and a transition of leadership was done in TLJ.
I'd like to see IX keep it simple with a handful of freedom fighters - and keep the details of the resistance lite. With the new resistance animated series, we can get detail about them there.. ahem.
I want to go back and watch the OT now to remind myself of how the rebellion were handled. LOL. But, if there is conflict in the resistance, I hope they keep it to a personal level and focused on the main characters - and I now include Rose as a main character btw. lol. Love Rose!
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Re: The Resistance/ Rebellion and leadership

Post by DeeBee Yesterday at 1:04 am

hi all! Just thought I'd mention - the new Poe Dameron comic seems to be strongly hinting that Poe is infact force sensitive..
I've shared this content HERE if this interests you Wink
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