Predictions for Episode 9

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Chris24601 on Wed 6 Jun - 19:04

@DeeBee wrote:I am a little nervous about whether JJ will address the politics in IX, as he totally did without it in TFA and for me, it suffered because of this. I think because of the PT they have been afraid to cover politics and explain anything of the force in detail. Boooooooo.. I loved your comparison to the fall of the Roman empire – this may very well be a template the writers will use!
@DeeBee

I think a distinction can be made between politicking (which is about as boring as a real world trial because its mostly people bloviating at each other over fine points of order) and policies (the implementation of what politics came up with).

Take the "Rebels" series for example; we don't need to see the politics of the Imperial Senate to see the effects that the Empire's policies are having on the common people. The same goes for the First Order's rule of the galaxy. Indeed one of the advantages of the First Order essentially being another dictatorial regime is that there isn't much politics... there are the policies being felt by the people and the scheming of those with power against each other. Those are the parts that are interesting.

The other thing is that I think they're gong to need a certain degree of that political backstabbing simply because there's just not enough time with any reasonable time jump (I think 5 years is the absolute MAX for a jump since the cast will only be 4 real-life years older when filming IX than they were when filming TFA and I don't think they want the characters much older than the actors playing them) for those two-dozen or so Resistance members aboard the Falcon to build a viable Rebellion against the First Order. The Rebellion had already been underway for nearly 15 years by the time of Star Wars Rebels and wasn't much more than a small group organized by Bail, Mon Mothma and Asoka. It then took the entire run of Rebels to transform it into the rag tag force we saw in Rogue One and ANH.

Frankly, if the Emperor hadn't thrown all his eggs into the superweapon basket TWICE and been overconfident enough to actually be on the Death Star II for the Battle of Endor, it would have probably been decades more before the Empire was overthrown.

Side-bar: Actually, I'd love a scene where Hux is pushing for a Starkiller 2.0 and Kylo calls it a complete waste of resources that's only good for riling up the masses into revolt and giving them a centralized target to attack... you could build and man tens of thousands of star destroyers for a fraction of the cost and one star destroyer is more than enough to pacify virtually any star system on the map (and if you need two or three you can do that too without completely stripping the rest of your Empire of defenses... and they can be as pinpoint as sending a commando or single fighter if needed too). Throwing shade on the idiocy that is Imperial Superweapons would be a terrific use of politics in a way that defines characters; Kylo wanting to bring beneficial order to the galaxy while Hux just wants a reign of terror.

Anyway, I think the ONLY way the Rebellion can pull off a win within the likely frame of the time jump is if the First Order is already fighting itself and it can exploit that to take one at least one and preferably both sides.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by DeeBee on Wed 6 Jun - 22:41

@Night Huntress wrote:@DeeBee
well, I don't see any reason why Qi'ra should be in IX to be honest- she has absolutely no connection to Ben (that we know of, but I really doubt it)....
...IX should focus on the new characters - Ben, Rey, Finn, Rose and yes even Poe ( Rolling Eyes )...
...Sorry, don't want to complain- but constantly shoehorn characters into stories is one of the big complains I have about the franchise.
And that's what it would feel like if they put Qi'ra in IX...
@Night Huntress

-I am not saying anything ‘should’ be in IX. Just exploring.
I believe things will be in IX that I don’t see coming, and that at first glance may not seem to work but will.. so I enjoy exploring ideas from different angles and hearing thoughts for why it might or might not work.
I think Qi’ra can be seen in IX and it not feel like being shoehorned but this is just IMHO. As I said, I don’t try to convince anyone to agree with me.

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Qi'ra is a part of the Forces of Destiny now; therefore, IF she appears in IX, it will not be for a reason of power...a negative reason.  (She could only meet with Finn and Rose for all we know, or only Poe).  She is a heroine or an antihero.

Of course, an appearance in Forces of Destiny does not equal an appearance in the Skywalker Saga (unless it's a hint of blink and you miss it cameos for the majority); however, inclusion in Forces of Destiny does indicate LF views her as a positive (or neutral) character.
@SW_Heroine_Journey
This is a really interesting observation SW-Heroine_Journey! It is curious that after the way things were left at the end of Solo – she is included in FOD. This is food for thought – and worth keeping in mind, even if it cannot be a confirmation of anything..

@SW_Heroine_Journey wrote:Perhaps I view these nuggets as clues, when they are indeed nothing.  Regardless, if the movie is excellent, and I have Reylo and Ben's redemption, I shall be happy (everything else is gravy).  (Hope for Ben's redemption the most).

Hmm...swimming in the gravy - There are rumors Lando may be in Episode 9.  Qi'ra and Lando know each other, he is Uncle Lando (little lol chuckle the way Toddler Ben improvised that), so if she is in it, there are ways to introduce her with the Ben factor (indeed, he is obviously currently estranged - I would gather - from bonds with Lando, yet there is still that connection).  As for Ben and trust - he has difficulty trusting anyone at the moment, except for Rey at times, so I don't view that as a narrative hurdle.
@SW_Heroine_Journey
To the bolded – so true! We don’t know what is something or nothing, we just have fun exploring together while keeping this in mind. Some ideas don't appeal.. some do - this is part of what we explore..
Swimming in this gravy sounds fabulous – sign me up!!!! Haaaa.. I'm with you - I'm open to anything so long as we get Bendemption and Reylo happy ending! this is my mantra for the wait for IX haaaaa.
Yes if Qi’ra is in IX I think it could be done well- and the Lando connection could be interesting.
Again I agree – Ben is going to have trust issues with everyone in IX.. I don’t see a narrative hurdle here either – but YMMV.
I would prefer, if Qi’ra would be in IX, that she would not be a main character. But this is just how I would prefer it because I’d just like more focus on the existing main characters.. but whatever we get I’m sure it will be great and I’ll love it!

@Chris24601 All sounds good to me! Just because GL didn’t IMHO do the politics very well doesn’t mean it can’t be done well and that the audience won’t enjoy it.  Politics does not have to equal bureaucracy.. (which seemed to be the Achilles heel of both republics).
I’ve just started reading Aftermath – and it seems the battle didn’t end with the death star… but it was the beginning of that downfall for sure.. maybe we will get more about this with the new Favearux series. Eventually.

@Chris24601 wrote: …Side-bar: Actually, I'd love a scene where Hux is pushing for a Starkiller 2.0 and Kylo calls it a complete waste of resources that's only good for riling up the masses into revolt and giving them a centralized target to attack... you could build and man tens of thousands of star destroyers for a fraction of the cost and one star destroyer is more than enough to pacify virtually any star system on the map (and if you need two or three you can do that too without completely stripping the rest of your Empire of defenses... and they can be as pinpoint as sending a commando or single fighter if needed too). Throwing shade on the idiocy that is Imperial Superweapons would be a terrific use of politics in a way that defines characters; Kylo wanting to bring beneficial order to the galaxy while Hux just wants a reign of terror.

Anyway, I think the ONLY way the Rebellion can pull off a win within the likely frame of the time jump is if the First Order is already fighting itself and it can exploit that to take one at least one and preferably both sides.
@Chris24601
-What will be the major weapon or foe in IX is so wide open at the moment.. it’s exciting and so full of possibilities! Pushing for SKB 2.0 sounds like Hux!
Yeah I can see Kylo now – My uncle Luke blew up the first one… and Unco Wando blew up the second one in my dad’s ships. So yeah no not building another one.

I think there are various ways the rebellion can pull off a win and it’s going to depend on many things we don’t know about yet.. (like time gaps) so it’s an awesome topic to play around with! I think there has been ongoing discussion about this on the IX resistance thread – have you stopped by there? Would be interested in hearing your thoughts. I love that we can have ongoing conversations we revisit over the 2 year wait.  
There are hints that the FO could suffer from infighting which will weaken it for sure.. I guess this actually already started and we saw this on Crait – the FO failed in it’s objective - to wipe out the resistance- because it was divided (no thanks to Kylo/Ben and his personal vendetta/being distracted)- great work Kylo/Ben! Haaaa..
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Mielikki on Wed 6 Jun - 23:56

I'd like to list the foreshadowings that we've had up to now so we can build the predictions on them.


Maz's prophecy
"Dear child, I see your eyes - you already know the truth. Whomever you are waiting for on Jakku, they're never coming back, but there's someone who still could. The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead. I am no jedi, but I know the force. It moves through and surrounds every living thing. Close your eyes, feel it. The light. It's always been there. It will guide you."

The light inside Rey literally guided her to the Supremacy in TLJ.
The belonging she seeks is with Ben and the Skywalker family. You’re not alone, neither are you, you’re nothing but not to me, Skywalker lightsaber calling etc etc.
The last part that is yet to come true is someone who can still come back.
They wouldn't have recited a prophecy if it had no meaning to it.


Luke's change of heart
He was so adamant that Ben was lost to the dark side when Rey was getting ready to ship herself to the Supremacy yet he regained his hope regarding Ben in his final goodbye to Leia telling her that no one is ever truly gone.
When Ben was screaming in his face that he'd destroy everything, including Rey, his answer was "Amazing, every word of what you just said was wrong."
His point of view changed when he righted himself. His pessimism was not a Ben problem, it was a Luke problem and when he found the right path he managed to see what was truly going on.
Surely the final conclusion of Luke Skywalker who literally transcended and became one with the force has to have some meaning to it.


Hux's overthrowing intent

Come on, they wouldn't make Hux nearly murder an unconscious Ben just for siths and giggles. Hux's motives have been quite in your face and I doubt they'll disregard it in Episode IX.


Rey and Ben's connection

It was there even before Ben informed Snoke of Rey's force abilities and it was still there when Snoke was in two pieces. It started in the interrogation room when Rey managed to literally connect with Ben and make his training her own. The novelisation cementifies it. So there's no way it won't be present in IX too.


The Prime Jedi - Balance
Why would they even mention such a thing if it has no significance? Rey isn't truly light and Ben isn't truly dark. Together they make the perfect image of the Prime Jedi which is quite similar to the yin yang. They definitely will explore this.


The Jedi texts
Rey has them. Yoda mentions that she has them and if I recall correctly we get a peek of them very briefly later on in TLJ.
It fits perfectly doesn't it?
Ben wants to let old things die. The Jedi, the Sith, and Rey is in possession of important texts that most probably is all about balance debunking the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith. Ben has a goal and Rey is in possession of the means to achieve it.


Bendemption
It would be unimaginable to make Ben turn full evil after all the conflict that has been going on in him. It's Star Wars. Why mention him being torn apart? Why show the emotional connection and affection he has for Rey? Why make Luke dispute his claims of total destruction in his final moments. Why show the progression of his choices going from evil to good? Well, disregarding the Supreme Leader part... Why make viewers sympathise with him giving him a relatable backstory? Why show him kill Han (bad), make him unable to kill Leia (neutral) and finally rebel against Snoke and save Rey (good) in order?


KoR
This probably doesn't count as foreshadowing but they have been mentioned quite a few times already. Maybe they come out into the light to avenge Snoke and hunt Rey. Maybe they find out that Ben was the one that killed Snoke and scheme against both Ben and Rey. It would be a waste to never show them though.


There's a reason that they showed us all this and all that lacks is the resolution.
I'll add more as it comes to me.  Love


Last edited by Mielikki on Thu 7 Jun - 9:59; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 7 Jun - 0:28

@Mielikki wrote:


The Jedi texts
Rey has them. Yoda mentions that she has them and if I recall correctly we get a peek of them very briefly later on in TLJ.
It fits perfectly doesn't it?
Ben wants to let old things die. The Jedi, the Sith, and Rey is in possession of important texts that most probably is all about balance debunking the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith. Ben has a goal and Rey is in possession of the means to achieve it.


@Mielikki

In Jason Fry's TLJ novelization, there's even a line about how Rey can't read the Jedi texts. I really hope that wasn't just a throwaway line for the novel...because otherwise, it's awfully convenient that Rey has the texts that she can't read, while Ben spent years studying the Force (and likely its history)...
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Mielikki on Thu 7 Jun - 3:39


@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Mielikki wrote:


The Jedi texts
Rey has them. Yoda mentions that she has them and if I recall correctly we get a peek of them very briefly later on in TLJ.
It fits perfectly doesn't it?
Ben wants to let old things die. The Jedi, the Sith, and Rey is in possession of important texts that most probably is all about balance debunking the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith. Ben has a goal and Rey is in possession of the means to achieve it.


@Mielikki

In Jason Fry's TLJ novelization, there's even a line about how Rey can't read the Jedi texts. I really hope that wasn't just a throwaway line for the novel...because otherwise, it's awfully convenient that Rey has the texts that she can't read, while Ben spent years studying the Force (and likely its history)...
@ISeeAnIsland

YES!! I can easily see that being a reason for reconciliation between the two via force bond.

So... Ben can only see things when Rey is in contact with them, right?
He was able to see the blaster she held in their first skype session.

Rey holds the texts->Ben can see them->They study together->Profit??


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Saracene on Thu 7 Jun - 7:09

@Chris24601 wrote:The biggest reason they'll hate it is another prediction I'll make... The climax of IX is NOT going to be some massive Force duel/Space Battle to end all space battles... the climax will be when Ben Solo finally turns back to the light through some massive self-sacrifice (though unlike Vader, probably not a fatal one).

The stans forget that the greatest moment in all of Star Wars; the critical moment that all six films led to; wasn't Luke kicking the Emperor and Vader's asses... Hell, the moment that Luke stood powerful in victory over Vader was the moment Luke was actually closest to utter defeat. No... the climax of Star Wars to this point was Luke lying in helpless agony on the floor begging his father for help and Vader's change of heart in that moment to save his son. The destruction of the Death Star II was sound and spectacle after that because the true victory had already been achieved. The Emperor was dead, Darth Vader was dead and Anakin Skywalker had been saved.

The message of the entire trilogies of trilogies is that LOVE is the answer. The tragedy of the prequel trilogy was in the ways love failed (both romantic; Anakin/Padme; and familial; Anakin and Obi-Wan/the Jedi who became his family). The triumph of the original trilogy was in the ways that it succeeded (reversing the failure of familial love via Luke and Anakin). The resolution of the sequel trilogy cannot be Rey cutting down the last Skywalker in a lightsaber duel; that doesn't just undermine the story of the sequel trilogy, but of the entire nine film series.
@Chris24601

This.

Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Mielikki on Thu 7 Jun - 7:50

@Saracene wrote:
Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
@Saracene

I don't disagree but I think Rey has the potential to be a lot more open minded regarding Kylo. She shipped herself to him clinging on the faintest glimmer of hope. In the novelisation albeit grimly worded it stated that she knew his choice wasn't an easy one to make and she would wait for him and see...

I mean, she basically forgave him for the murder of her future father in law after a few skype sessions. I think she can get over the disagreement concerning their 5 year plan in a jiffy. Smile
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Saracene on Thu 7 Jun - 8:01

@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
@Saracene

I don't disagree but I think Rey has the potential to be a lot more open minded regarding Kylo. She shipped herself to him clinging on the faintest glimmer of hope. In the novelisation albeit grimly worded it stated that she knew his choice wasn't an easy one to make and she would wait for him and see...

I mean, she basically forgave him for the murder of her future father in law after a few skype sessions. I think she can get over the disagreement concerning their 5 year plan in a jiffy. Smile
@Mielikki

I don't disagree either, I just don't think that the movies will get repetitive with Rey reaching out to Kylo again, trying to convince him to abandon his path again, etc. Been there, done that.

I find the post-throne room Rey in the novel so out of character I can't take any of that seriously, to be honest. Like, all of a sudden hot-headed impulsive Rey turns into this serene, reflective, detached Jedi thinking deep thoughts about the will of the force? Not buying that at all.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Tex on Thu 7 Jun - 9:23

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Mielikki wrote:


The Jedi texts
Rey has them. Yoda mentions that she has them and if I recall correctly we get a peek of them very briefly later on in TLJ.
It fits perfectly doesn't it?
Ben wants to let old things die. The Jedi, the Sith, and Rey is in possession of important texts that most probably is all about balance debunking the teachings of both the Jedi and the Sith. Ben has a goal and Rey is in possession of the means to achieve it.


@Mielikki

In Jason Fry's TLJ novelization, there's even a line about how Rey can't read the Jedi texts. I really hope that wasn't just a throwaway line for the novel...because otherwise, it's awfully convenient that Rey has the texts that she can't read, while Ben spent years studying the Force (and likely its history)...
@ISeeAnIsland

I would love this so much. They have to find a way to get them interacting again. My only concern is that it might be a bit repetitive? What do y'all think?  Plus they foreshadowed the importance of those book like crazy. So they need to do something with them. Also something in the texts could cause them to meet-up somewhere on neutral ground. That's an option.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Mielikki on Thu 7 Jun - 9:55

@Saracene wrote:
@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
@Saracene

I don't disagree but I think Rey has the potential to be a lot more open minded regarding Kylo. She shipped herself to him clinging on the faintest glimmer of hope. In the novelisation albeit grimly worded it stated that she knew his choice wasn't an easy one to make and she would wait for him and see...

I mean, she basically forgave him for the murder of her future father in law after a few skype sessions. I think she can get over the disagreement concerning their 5 year plan in a jiffy. Smile
@Mielikki

I don't disagree either, I just don't think that the movies will get repetitive with Rey reaching out to Kylo again, trying to convince him to abandon his path again, etc. Been there, done that.

I find the post-throne room Rey in the novel so out of character I can't take any of that seriously, to be honest. Like, all of a sudden hot-headed impulsive Rey turns into this serene, reflective, detached Jedi thinking deep thoughts about the will of the force? Not buying that at all.
@Saracene

Same. I mean Fry could have gone with something like "Rey stared at Kylo's unconscious body, contemplating the last few hours. Suddenly she was jolted to action by the thought of her friends, they needed her..." and it would have been satisfactory.

When you put it that way I can definitely see Kylo frantically warning Rey about Hux's destruction plans via force bond. That might mend the bridges.
Like an unauthorised attack on a rebel base which Kylo finds out last minute and he reaches out to Rey to warn her.

One other thing I find plausible is the KoR going on a mission to hunt Rey because they think that she sliced Snoke and Kylo warning her.
Or the KoR finding out Kylo sliced Snoke and working together with Hux to hunt Rey behind Kylo's back and bidding their time to overthrow Kylo. Kylo finding out and warning Rey and/or doing a selfless act in order to warn/save her.

It'd be a shame if the KoR didn't at least make an appearance in IX. They have been mentioned quite a few times.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Thu 7 Jun - 11:43

@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
@Saracene

I don't disagree but I think Rey has the potential to be a lot more open minded regarding Kylo. She shipped herself to him clinging on the faintest glimmer of hope. In the novelisation albeit grimly worded it stated that she knew his choice wasn't an easy one to make and she would wait for him and see...

I mean, she basically forgave him for the murder of her future father in law after a few skype sessions. I think she can get over the disagreement concerning their 5 year plan in a jiffy. Smile
@Mielikki

I don't disagree either, I just don't think that the movies will get repetitive with Rey reaching out to Kylo again, trying to convince him to abandon his path again, etc. Been there, done that.

I find the post-throne room Rey in the novel so out of character I can't take any of that seriously, to be honest. Like, all of a sudden hot-headed impulsive Rey turns into this serene, reflective, detached Jedi thinking deep thoughts about the will of the force? Not buying that at all.
@Saracene

Same. I mean Fry could have gone with something like "Rey stared at Kylo's unconscious body, contemplating the last few hours. Suddenly she was jolted to action by the thought of her friends, they needed her..." and it would have been satisfactory.

When you put it that way I can definitely see Kylo frantically warning Rey about Hux's destruction plans via force bond. That might mend the bridges.
Like an unauthorised attack on a rebel base which Kylo finds out last minute and he reaches out to Rey to warn her.

One other thing I find plausible is the KoR going on a mission to hunt Rey because they think that she sliced Snoke and Kylo warning her.
Or the KoR finding out Kylo sliced Snoke and working together with Hux to hunt Rey behind Kylo's back and bidding their time to overthrow Kylo. Kylo finding out and warning Rey and/or doing a selfless act in order to warn/save her.

It'd be a shame if the KoR didn't at least make an appearance in IX. They have been mentioned quite a few times.
@Mielikki

I think the Kor are under control of Kylo Ren, he is master of them.
Maybe Kylo order to them to find
Rey and bring her on him because after all He wants her
but I really doubt that, he wants personally find her Smile
we'll see......
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Geralt_Riv on Thu 7 Jun - 12:10

@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Mielikki wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
Though I think that Kylo's big self-sacrifice will actually happen much earlier in the film. The way TLJ leaves things, there's an impression that after Rey's failed attempt the ball is in Kylo's court, so to speak. I doubt that Rey will make another effort to reach him, and if they have another ForceSkype I can see it ending with Rey sternly reminding Kylo that they both chose their sides, etc. So unless Kylo does something bold way earlier, their relationship will remain pretty much static until the very end. Also, I think at this point Kylo's feelings for Rey run deeper than vice versa, so Rey does need time for her own feelings to progress, which can't happen if they're in stasis for 95% of the film.
@Saracene

I don't disagree but I think Rey has the potential to be a lot more open minded regarding Kylo. She shipped herself to him clinging on the faintest glimmer of hope. In the novelisation albeit grimly worded it stated that she knew his choice wasn't an easy one to make and she would wait for him and see...

I mean, she basically forgave him for the murder of her future father in law after a few skype sessions. I think she can get over the disagreement concerning their 5 year plan in a jiffy. Smile
@Mielikki

I don't disagree either, I just don't think that the movies will get repetitive with Rey reaching out to Kylo again, trying to convince him to abandon his path again, etc. Been there, done that.

I find the post-throne room Rey in the novel so out of character I can't take any of that seriously, to be honest. Like, all of a sudden hot-headed impulsive Rey turns into this serene, reflective, detached Jedi thinking deep thoughts about the will of the force? Not buying that at all.
@Saracene

Same. I mean Fry could have gone with something like "Rey stared at Kylo's unconscious body, contemplating the last few hours. Suddenly she was jolted to action by the thought of her friends, they needed her..." and it would have been satisfactory.

When you put it that way I can definitely see Kylo frantically warning Rey about Hux's destruction plans via force bond. That might mend the bridges.
Like an unauthorised attack on a rebel base which Kylo finds out last minute and he reaches out to Rey to warn her.

One other thing I find plausible is the KoR going on a mission to hunt Rey because they think that she sliced Snoke and Kylo warning her.
Or the KoR finding out Kylo sliced Snoke and working together with Hux to hunt Rey behind Kylo's back and bidding their time to overthrow Kylo. Kylo finding out and warning Rey and/or doing a selfless act in order to warn/save her.

It'd be a shame if the KoR didn't at least make an appearance in IX. They have been mentioned quite a few times.
@Mielikki

Wasn't there an information that the KoR are not part of the FO? That they were allied with FO only because Kylo was Snoke's apprentice and Kylo is their master. Because if that is true then it would seem that they are loyal to Ben not Snoke or FO.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Mielikki on Thu 7 Jun - 14:57

@Geralt_Riv

Sorry, I’m on mobile so I can’t quote.

It isn’t certain who banded the KoR, right? All we know is that Ben is their master and they’re not members of the FO.
I’ve always assumed that it was Snoke who influenced them all before the Jedi temple massacre.
Otherwise it seems quite farfetched to me that a handful of jedi younglings/adultlings would turn on their classmates in the spur of the moment and eventually make it a slaughterfest.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Chris24601 on Thu 7 Jun - 14:58

@Geralt_Riv wrote:Wasn't there an information that the KoR are not part of the FO? That they were allied with FO only because Kylo was Snoke's apprentice and Kylo is their master. Because if that is true then it would seem that they are loyal to Ben not Snoke or FO.
@Geralt_Riv
Now see THAT would be a fun thing to explore; particularly since its almost a certainty that the Knights of Ren are actually the half of Luke's students who disappeared after the massacre. Indeed, the massacre in context seems to be a case of Luke contemplates murdering his nephew, Ben wakes up and Force Blasts Luke, taking out a chunk of the building. The students end up in a pitched battle where half go after Ben for attacking Luke and the other half defend Ben and then leave with him in the aftermath.

I also half-believe the crack-spoiler that Kylo is actually going to be a reasonable ruler of the galaxy; his attachment to Vader was that his grandfather was trying to bring order to a chaotic and corrupt galaxy (i.e. a place where the Jedi let Anakin's mother remain in slavery and die because of politics). He may not be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows, but Kylo's end goal IS a better and safer galaxy.

So my prediction is that the main plot of IX will be Hux's coup (because Hux is a psychopath who wants to crush the galaxy beneath his heel) and that it will be initially successful; forcing Kylo to flee for his life, likely with the assistance of the Knights of Ren and Kylo will probably reach out to Rey through their bond and that will bring the Resistance side into the mix (along with a debate over whether or not they should even try to help Kylo). That can get Kylo into a sympathetic position where he can interact with Rey early on, but still leave him a choice between holding onto power and giving the galaxy its freedom for the climax of the film.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by BB-Rey on Thu 7 Jun - 15:20

Don't forget the Acoytles of the Beyond from Aftermath. They share many similarities with what we know in limited amounts about to be the Knights of Ren.

starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Acolytes_of_the_Beyond

The Acoytles were lead by masters such as Yupe Tashu, who communicated with fallen Sith specters. He happened to emerge as a master (as they had different fractions) after an absence from the Empire. I think it's possible Snoke could've secretly been part of what eventually turned them into the Knights of Ren and what came to be after the Sith specters weren't needed. I think he's their leader while having possibly planted seeds within Luke's Jedi. Then they all turned on Luke with no hesitation. I think there's more than the seven we've seen but Kylo doesn't know about them. I think they'll be loyal to Kylo until they learn what really happened to Snoke.

One way I could see this working is the Knights of Ren we know about are Kylo's guards to the dismay of Hux but when they learn he killed Snoke a member will call in reinforcements and they'll begin invading the galaxy and working to take out the First Order and Resistance.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Saracene on Thu 7 Jun - 17:29

My favourite theory is that Kylo is somehow forced to fess up that he killed Snoke in order to save Rey's life, which in turn dooms him to imprisonment and possible execution. I don't know if they're going to use Kylo's lie to Hux in TLJ at all, but in stories it's pretty common for the truth to eventually come out and create complications for the characters who lied or withheld something. Kylo killing Snoke and Rey's bond with Kylo (which I'm sure she'd never mention to her Resistance pals) are like two dirty little secrets they could use in the Episode IX to generate drama.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Teo oswald on Thu 7 Jun - 17:42

all the s*** will jump out, all the mysteries
some will be positive, some negative, some unexpected

even kylo
I expect a beautiful declaration of love between the two, even Rey, I want her loaded and ready for the conquest of Ben Smile
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Thu 7 Jun - 22:05

I feel like a killjoy with one of my predictions, but there's not going to be an appearance by Lando. As much as he's loved and LF is being vague about what happened to him after Empire's End, he's not making a surprise appearance in IX. There won't be a moment in the film when Leia and the last remaining members of the Resistance show up at that retirement community he's living in at the Star Wars equivalent to Boca Raton. BDW is in his 80s and has limited mobility along with MS. After Ford's near fatal accident and Carrie's death impacting IX, there's no way you'd see LF even going there with the insurance payouts they've already gone with both of those situations. What we may see is Kylo continuing to be a thorn in Hux's side by realizing how he f**ked up on Crait and showing the galaxy that he learned a thing or two from his Unca Wanwo besides wearing stylish capes.  And I get why people keep hoping he'll make an appearance, because of love for the character and the actor. But anybody who made it through TLJ and hasn't quit being a fan must realize from everything that went down that LF isn't going to cater to nostalgia when it comes to the ST (and Solo had plenty of those moments and didn't do so great).

Otherwise, 2.5 years after seeing TFA and falling down the rabbit hole of speculation about TLJ because I knew that *something* had to be up with two characters, I'm not speculating so much because so many things I thought would happen didn't pan out. First Jedi Temple as a major plot point when Kylo comes to Ache-to? Big conspiracy backstory which connects Rey's parents, her abandonment, and the rise of Snoke/the First Order? The Vader reveal triggering the fall of Ben Solo and Uncle Luke's Bible Camp? They were fun to talk about and joke about, but our forum still got off better with what didn't happen versus the rest of the Internet (RIP Rey being at the Jedi Academy massacre as maybe Luke's daughter).

That said, I think Rian Johnson pretty clearly wiped the board of elements which would've sucked up the oxygen in the ST story and put it down some pretty well-trod paths for the franchise with eliminating Snoke (just a power hungry a**hole who used his Force powers to manipulate people so he could be in charge of the galaxy) and Rey's long-lost parents (addicts who got desperate enough to trade her for one night of drinking) as plotlines. Instead, he's set up a couple situations which could provide maximum drama, especially Supreme Leader Kylo Ren's dirty secret of Force Skyping the Last Jedi for pillow talk and murdering Supreme Leader Snoke instead of following orders to kill her and taking over his position. Not to mention the reborn Resistance placing its hopes on the Last Jedi and potentially learning that she's been off holding hands with him. Or Hux's ambitions to be the man in charge being temporarily thwarted by his work rival and what he'll do next. Will any work actually get done in the First Order now that Phasma is dead because she was probably always offscreen actually doing s*** while her male coworkers stood around in meetings bickering. Doesn't mean that JJ will use those particular plot points, but those are the most ripe for drama and an interesting story.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Dar-ren19 on Thu 7 Jun - 22:31

@snufkin wrote:I feel like a killjoy with one of my predictions, but there's not going to be an appearance by Lando. As much as he's loved and LF is being vague about what happened to him after Empire's End, he's not making a surprise appearance in IX. There won't be a moment in the film when Leia and the last remaining members of the Resistance show up at that retirement community he's living in at the Star Wars equivalent to Boca Raton. BDW is in his 80s and has limited mobility along with MS. After Ford's near fatal accident and Carrie's death impacting IX, there's no way you'd see LF even going there with the insurance payouts they've already gone with both of those situations. What we may see is Kylo continuing to be a thorn in Hux's side by realizing how he f**ked up on Crait and showing the galaxy that he learned a thing or two from his Unca Wanwo besides wearing stylish capes.  And I get why people keep hoping he'll make an appearance, because of love for the character and the actor. But anybody who made it through TLJ and hasn't quit being a fan must realize from everything that went down that LF isn't going to cater to nostalgia when it comes to the ST (and Solo had plenty of those moments and didn't do so great).

Otherwise, 2.5 years after seeing TFA and falling down the rabbit hole of speculation about TLJ because I knew that *something* had to be up with two characters, I'm not speculating so much because so many things I thought would happen didn't pan out. First Jedi Temple as a major plot point when Kylo comes to Ache-to? Big conspiracy backstory which connects Rey's parents, her abandonment, and the rise of Snoke/the First Order? The Vader reveal triggering the fall of Ben Solo and Uncle Luke's Bible Camp? They were fun to talk about and joke about, but our forum still got off better with what didn't happen versus the rest of the Internet (RIP Rey being at the Jedi Academy massacre as maybe Luke's daughter).

That said, I think Rian Johnson pretty clearly wiped the board of elements which would've sucked up the oxygen in the ST story and put it down some pretty well-trod paths for the franchise with eliminating Snoke (just a power hungry a**hole who used his Force powers to manipulate people so he could be in charge of the galaxy) and Rey's long-lost parents (addicts who got desperate enough to trade her for one night of drinking) as plotlines. Instead, he's set up a couple situations which could provide maximum drama, especially Supreme Leader Kylo Ren's dirty secret of Force Skyping the Last Jedi for pillow talk and murdering Supreme Leader Snoke instead of following orders to kill her and taking over his position. Not to mention the reborn Resistance placing its hopes on the Last Jedi and potentially learning that she's been off holding hands with him. Or Hux's ambitions to be the man in charge being temporarily thwarted by his work rival and what he'll do next. Will any work actually get done in the First Order now that Phasma is dead because she was probably always offscreen actually doing s*** while her male coworkers stood around in meetings bickering. Doesn't mean that JJ will use those particular plot points, but those are the most ripe for drama and an interesting story.

@snufkin completely agree with ALL your points. Besides, I've had about enough of the old cast in this trilogy. I think it's time we saw the names of the new cast headlining their own film.

Also, I'm hoping that that little mention of a camera in the elevator pans out for Hux Wink I'm all agog for some FO office politics, for the slightly wierd vibe between Rey and Poe in the comics to come into open questions about the force-skyping, and Finn's foray into Stormtrooper rank and file. If these don't happen, I'll be disappointed... and yeah I'm not holding my breath.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Fri 8 Jun - 1:11

@Dar-ren19 - TLJ was about ripping off the nostalgia Band-Aid quite forcefully, hence some vocal unhappy fans. Painful but necessary to move forward instead of stagnating in the past. If Carrie hadn't passed away, she likely would've made an appearance in IX to resolve Leia's storyline with her son. But I suspect that no matter how IX turns out, Lando not being in the ST will be on the list of complaints some (older) fans will have about the ST.

And yes, I am so hoping that Hux sticks his nose into something like elevator and Throne Room security footage and all Hell breaks lose. If I were at that lunch JJ and Rian Johnson supposedly had, office politics and the dirty secret of the Supreme Leader and the Last Jedi would be my suggestion for what to center the story on.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Chris24601 on Fri 8 Jun - 15:17

I think Hux checking the camera footage only works if the time jump is on the order of a few months. If it takes him 5 years just to find the footage from the (only cosmetically damaged) throne room that would be a huge suspension of disbelief killer for me. The Supremacy was dead in the water, but it didn't appear to be in immanent danger of blowing itself further to pieces. If there was footage to be found, Hux would have found it within days or weeks, not years.

The only way I could see that working is if Hux gets the evidence immediately, but can't use it immediately because Kylo is so powerful that he'd only get one shot at his coup and so hold onto it until the coup is already underway as justification for his actions.

Because let's be honest; Kylo killing his master and trying to recruit a new apprentice afterwards is just Darksider Politics 101. Its not like he ordered the First Order to let the Resistance ships get away (he probably should have... what's a hundred or so Resistance getting away for now vs. winning over such a powerful new apprentice as Rey... I'm pretty sure Palpatine or Vader in his heyday would have made that trade in a heartbeat); heck the reason Rey ultimately went for the lightsaber was only because Kylo wouldn't halt the attack on the fleeing Resistance transports. Kylo didn't betray the First Order, he just successfully pulled off a coup (i.e. what Hux wants to do) that put him in charge.

Kylo's behavior isn't all that damning, at least not to power hungry monsters like Hux would be trying to recruit for his own coup. If anything the majority of the people like Hux would see the footage and wish they could have pulled off something like that themselves.

So far the most interesting scenario I've heard, even if its probably pure crack, is Kylo actually being a benevolent emperor. It challenges audience expectations, creates a moral quandary for the other protagonists (i.e. is it worth throwing the galaxy back into chaos or given over to someone like Hux just because of how Kylo gained power... particularly if the key architect of the scheme, Snoke, is already dead and Kylo is the one who killed him?) and offers more interesting interactions for all the characters.

Heck, you could create an entire SERIES out of Renperor and Reylo Force-skyping with Rey encouraging Kylo's better angels as he debates the best policies to keep the galaxy from sliding into chaos and Kylo feeding Rey intel the Resistance can use to take out threats (to Kylo's rule and peace and order in general) within the First Order in a manner that gives him plausible deniability. Throw in politics on the First Order and Resistance sides and some secret keepers for added drama (say a Knight of Ren learns the truth of what's going on, but stays quiet out of loyalty to Kylo and proves invaluable in watching Kylo's back, but then gets captured by the Resistance on a mission and Rey has to choose between loyalty to the Resistance or freeing the Knight of Ren because that will keep Kylo safer).

I'd watch the hell out of that way more than I would some "Magical Friendship Gang takes down the Evil First Order" fest and I think I lot more general audience goers would too.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 8 Jun - 15:28

I am a very new fan to Star Wars (thanks to TLJ).

The reason why I am thinking Lando is making an appearance in IX is because of the investment in resources for the Solo film, and the book Last Shot, which places the importance of Lando with the Solo family (and a bond with Ben).  It seems a lot of work...planting of breadcrumbs, which is why I presume an appearance in IX.

If not though, no matter to me (I'm just a bloodhound, perhaps on the wrong track...lol).  All that matters to me is Reylo and Bendemption - everything else is gravy, icing on the cake, etc. Very Happy
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Night Huntress on Fri 8 Jun - 16:06

@Chris24601

I totally agree- it's basically what I'm hoping for...but I try to keep my expectations in check

@SW_Heroine_Journey

I would actually like Lando in IX- he did have a connection to Ben and the Solo/Skywalker family - but I kind of doubt it because there're so many different characters to explore and stories to tell in IX.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by tukicarreno on Fri 8 Jun - 16:13

Can you believe that the collider guys over at the last Jedi Council, especially Kristian Harloff, still think that is obvious that Rey & Poe are going to have a romance in IX?Rolling Eyes He says this just because of that little scene in TLJ and also mentioned TFA novel. Like WTF? Did he watch TLJ? Rian even confirmed the feelings between Kylo & Rey? Being a Reylo is still so frustrating. I just want to give up sometimes to be honest. Neutral
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by twilekempire on Fri 8 Jun - 17:27

@tukicarreno wrote:Can you believe that the collider guys over at the last Jedi Council, especially Kristian Harloff,  still think that is obvious that Rey & Poe are going to have a romance in IX?Rolling Eyes  He says this just because of that little scene in TLJ and also mentioned TFA novel. Like WTF? Did he watch TLJ? Rian even confirmed the feelings between Kylo & Rey? Being a Reylo is still so frustrating. I just want to give up sometimes to be honest. Neutral
@tukicarreno

One of my colleagues once described someone we work with as "socially intelligent and intelligently social" and that is what Poe is like, I think. He charms people and is aware of power dynamics; that's how he led a mutiny, power of personality and his ability to connect with people and mobilize them through those connections.

He just saw Rey prove herself to be one of the single most powerful people in the entire galaxy when she lifted those rocks. She's a mover and a shaker and he's heard about her. He wants to say "Hi" and turn on the charm. That totally explains his polite intro and smile. It would be more of a shocking singular thing if he didn't do that.

I don't see him as a bad person or anything, I just see him as someone with a certain way of approaching the world who's following that approach. But, heck, it's not romance! He'd have done it with anyone similarly positioned, including a 90 year old little alien dude or whatever. He's being socially smart and caring.
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