Predictions for Episode 9

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Post by Kessel on Tue 31 Jul 2018, 7:47 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@bashfulblueeyes3 wrote:What if there is an evil force from unknown regions that makes its way into the galaxy to try to take over?  We are all assuming that the war will be between FO and Resistance, but what if it isn’t that at all?  What if the FO and the Resistance have to work together to get rid of this evil hat wants to take over the galaxy?
@bashfulblueeyes3

Actually this is something I and some others thought might happen in TLJ, because we speculated that Snoke himself might be from the Unknown Regions. I'm open to something like this happening on the one hand because as you know I'm not into "Big Bad Hux" at all.  Evil or Very Mad

Also I just can't agree with the idea that we don't need a big bad - a credibly villain is an integral part of an epic fantasy, imo. The hero needs someone to vanquish. If we don't get another evil Force user pretty much we can guarantee that Rey and Kylo Ren are going to have to duke it out - otherwise where is the lightsaber duel?

Still I feel it's kind of late in the game to introduce some brand new threat at the 11th hour when we have so much stuff to work through already. Maybe they can just spruce up Hux more, have Rey and Kylo duel and then passionately kiss and make up and call it a day. XD
@Darth Rowan

I agree. As much as I’d like to see a new threat which would make IX’s storyline into something other than just Resistance vs. FO, I think it’s probably a little too late to properly develop a whole new threat that would overtake that conflict. Tptb could surprise us with some added elements, but I think the main conflict is still going to be Rey vs. Kylo and Resistance vs. FO. It’s clear Rey and Kylo will likely duel again. If they do, I hope it’s in the first half of the movie (I’m hoping for something that ends in a draw or a situation where one of them is incapable of killing the other). That would free up the ending to be something more original than a rematch duel between them.

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Post by Darth Rowan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 10:19 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Rowan

I'm only halfway through, and I realize that the movies seem to be ignoring any interesting plot threads introduced by the new canon novels so far, but the new Thrawn novel definitely sets things up for there to be all sorts of dark and evil things, including entire civilizations, lurking in the Unknown Regions.  I'd be shocked if one of the new trilogies (maybe Rian's or the GoT guys?) don't touch on the UR and the stuff out there.
@ISeeAnIsland

We need a review once you're done reading the new Thrawn novel! I've been wanting to read it but I have to much going on.

Definitely agree with you, they're developing too much stuff in the Unknown Regions for it to be left undisturbed in the film saga. Even going back to the EU they were talking about Palpatine communicating with things that scared him in the Unknown Regions anyway so imo, like Thrawn, it's one of those things that crossed over to canon for a reason.

@Kessel wrote:
I agree. As much as I’d like to see a new threat which would make IX’s storyline into something other than just Resistance vs. FO, I think it’s probably a little too late to properly develop a whole new threat that would overtake that conflict. Tptb could surprise us with some added elements, but I think the main conflict is still going to be Rey vs. Kylo and Resistance vs. FO. It’s clear Rey and Kylo will likely duel again.  If they do, I hope it’s in the first half of the movie (I’m hoping for something that ends in a draw or a situation where one of them is incapable of killing the other). That would free up the ending to be something more original than a rematch duel between them.
@Kessel

I agree with all of this. Re: bold, honestly for me as a Kylo stan I would love if the duel between Rey and Kylo evened out the playing field and made it clear that they are equals and in balance - she defeated him in VII, there was a stalemate in VIII with the lightsaber, so I want him to defeat her in IX just to keep it even. I think it would be good for them both. XD
Of course he would be incapable of hurting her, let alone killing her and bla bla. Alternatively, I am fine with it being a draw. Definitely this should happen earlier on in the movie!

To be honest it's not like I'll throw popcorn at the screen if this happens at the very end and the duel ends with a kiss and a happily ever after.  lol!

Still it would be such a missed opportunity if they leave Kylo Ren's redemption to the very end. One of the main narrative points of the ST is that Kylo Ren is NOT Darth Vader, so there is no reason for his redemption to emulate Vader's in that regard.

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Post by Chris24601 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:12 am

I think they could make a “threat from the unknown regions” still work, but for that angle to work it would have to be some aspect of the First Order that Kylo wasn’t aware of when he took out Snoke.

As an example, Snoke was just the youngest and weakest of say, a trio of brothers, who took his third of the First Order into the known galaxy in order to conquer it and prove himself to his more powerful brothers. They sensed their brother’s death through the Force (and probably even know that Kylo not Rey did the deed) and have come for revenge; bringing a force twice the size of the First Order with the intention of destroying both Kylo, the part of the First Order he has been steering in a more “reformed” direction since seizing power and the section of the galaxy that led to their brother’s death.

Thus, Kylo’s First Order becomes the lesser of two evils and Kylo needs Rey because she’s the only other person strong enough in the Force to help him face Snoke’s two brothers. The Resistance could either side with the First Order (emphasis on Hux as token evil teammate who’s only trying to save his own neck) or try to sow enough chaos that Kylo’s First Order and the Brothers’ First Order destroy each other.

A scaled down version of the above would simply be the brothers turning up to take control of the First Order and reveal Kylo to be Snoke’s true killer and forcing Kylo to go on the run; cue members of the Resistance in conflict over what to do with Kylo (as an enemy, potential asset, son and/or love interest) even as the First Order reunifies behind these new champions of the Dark Side.

It really depends on just how long they want to make the film and how many subplots they’re willing to entertain. TLJ proved that 2.5 hours is a viable length and if they’re willing to pair down Poe and Finn/Rose’s plots down (possibly by combining them into a single subplot) coupled with Leia and Luke being used to service the Rey/Kylo plot and linking one or both plots to opposing this new threat you could probably get 1.5+ hours to develop and resolve that threat in a single film pretty easily.

Even if its just THE supply base for the First Order in the Unknown Regions, I think there is a definite narrative advantage to revealing some critical focal point that, if removed, would allow for the overall defeat of the First Order by the much smaller Resistance. Knocking out the droid control ship in Ep I, taking out the Death Stars or Starkiller Base in IV, VI and VII are all examples of this sort of narrative device and it works for a reason.

I think one of the biggest obstacles to seeing a satisfying resolution in IX is that First Order seems to lack that “cut off the head” nature to it; it feels more decentralized and so near impossible to knock out with a single strategic punch the way taking out the Emperor was. Indeed, half the premise of TLJ was Kylo basically killing the Emperor and taking his place and Hux clearly being willing to end Kylo to do the same; which while such unstable leadership could kill the First Order in the long run, it’s death would never be the narratively satisfying knockout punch against a superior foe.

The most useful thing the Unknown Regions might provide for IX would be a means of supplying the First Order with a means to “cut off the head of the snake” that wasn’t obvious in TLJ.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 11:32 am

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Darth Rowan

I'm only halfway through, and I realize that the movies seem to be ignoring any interesting plot threads introduced by the new canon novels so far, but the new Thrawn novel definitely sets things up for there to be all sorts of dark and evil things, including entire civilizations, lurking in the Unknown Regions.  I'd be shocked if one of the new trilogies (maybe Rian's or the GoT guys?) don't touch on the UR and the stuff out there.
@ISeeAnIsland

We need a review once you're done reading the new Thrawn novel! I've been wanting to read it but I have to much going on.

Definitely agree with you, they're developing too much stuff in the Unknown Regions for it to be left undisturbed in the film saga. Even going back to the EU they were talking about Palpatine communicating with things that scared him in the Unknown Regions anyway so imo, like Thrawn, it's one of those things that crossed over to canon for a reason.

@Kessel wrote:
I agree. As much as I’d like to see a new threat which would make IX’s storyline into something other than just Resistance vs. FO, I think it’s probably a little too late to properly develop a whole new threat that would overtake that conflict. Tptb could surprise us with some added elements, but I think the main conflict is still going to be Rey vs. Kylo and Resistance vs. FO. It’s clear Rey and Kylo will likely duel again.  If they do, I hope it’s in the first half of the movie (I’m hoping for something that ends in a draw or a situation where one of them is incapable of killing the other). That would free up the ending to be something more original than a rematch duel between them.
@Kessel

I agree with all of this. Re: bold, honestly for me as a Kylo stan I would love if the duel between Rey and Kylo evened out the playing field and made it clear that they are equals and in balance - she defeated him in VII, there was a stalemate in VIII with the lightsaber, so I want him to defeat her in IX just to keep it even. I think it would be good for them both. XD
Of course he would be incapable of hurting her, let alone killing her and bla bla. Alternatively, I am fine with it being a draw. Definitely this should happen earlier on in the movie!

To be honest it's not like I'll throw popcorn at the screen if this happens at the very end and the duel ends with a kiss and a happily ever after.  lol!

Still it would be such a missed opportunity if they leave Kylo Ren's redemption to the very end. One of the main narrative points of the ST is that Kylo Ren is NOT Darth Vader, so there is no reason for his redemption to emulate Vader's in that regard.
@Darth Rowan

Given that Rey has been more aggressive/violent than him, and we're trying to endear the audience to Kylo, I don't think it would be productive to have Kylo physically overpower or defeat Rey. He's pretty mild around her most of the time. And these movies have been pretty keen on making Rey look good on her moral high ground. He will never outdo his Crait tantrum anyway! Very Happy
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Post by Darth Rowan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 2:08 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
Re: bold, honestly for me as a Kylo stan I would love if the duel between Rey and Kylo evened out the playing field and made it clear that they are equals and in balance - she defeated him in VII, there was a stalemate in VIII with the lightsaber, so I want him to defeat her in IX just to keep it even. I think it would be good for them both. XD
Of course he would be incapable of hurting her, let alone killing her and bla bla. Alternatively, I am fine with it being a draw. Definitely this should happen earlier on in the movie!

To be honest it's not like I'll throw popcorn at the screen if this happens at the very end and the duel ends with a kiss and a happily ever after.  lol!

Still it would be such a missed opportunity if they leave Kylo Ren's redemption to the very end. One of the main narrative points of the ST is that Kylo Ren is NOT Darth Vader, so there is no reason for his redemption to emulate Vader's in that regard.
@Darth Rowan

Given that Rey has been more aggressive/violent than him, and we're trying to endear the audience to Kylo, I don't think it would be productive to have Kylo physically overpower or defeat Rey. He's pretty mild around her most of the time. And these movies have been pretty keen on making Rey look good on her moral high ground. He will never outdo his Crait tantrum anyway! Very Happy
@californiagirl

I disagree - I think that seeing Rey NOT emerge victorious for once would help her image with the fanboys (and girls, to be fair) who complain of her being a Mary Sue, i.e. the people who are still pissed that she defeated Kylo and overpowered Luke with no training. LF went so far as to clarify that Luke slipped on a banana peel in the TLJ comic and that's why she was able to best him, so it tells you they are aware of the criticism that her prowess seems unearned.

Either way, that "Mary Sue" noise doesn't bother me personally. The main thing that bugs me is that people are still saying Kylo Ren has poor dueling technique and is less gifted or inferior to Rey and I don't think that's what this is about at all. IMO it would be good to see him show some skills.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 2:16 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
Re: bold, honestly for me as a Kylo stan I would love if the duel between Rey and Kylo evened out the playing field and made it clear that they are equals and in balance - she defeated him in VII, there was a stalemate in VIII with the lightsaber, so I want him to defeat her in IX just to keep it even. I think it would be good for them both. XD
Of course he would be incapable of hurting her, let alone killing her and bla bla. Alternatively, I am fine with it being a draw. Definitely this should happen earlier on in the movie!

To be honest it's not like I'll throw popcorn at the screen if this happens at the very end and the duel ends with a kiss and a happily ever after.  lol!

Still it would be such a missed opportunity if they leave Kylo Ren's redemption to the very end. One of the main narrative points of the ST is that Kylo Ren is NOT Darth Vader, so there is no reason for his redemption to emulate Vader's in that regard.
@Darth Rowan

Given that Rey has been more aggressive/violent than him, and we're trying to endear the audience to Kylo, I don't think it would be productive to have Kylo physically overpower or defeat Rey. He's pretty mild around her most of the time. And these movies have been pretty keen on making Rey look good on her moral high ground. He will never outdo his Crait tantrum anyway! Very Happy
@californiagirl

I disagree - I think that seeing Rey NOT emerge victorious for once would help her image with the fanboys (and girls, to be fair) who complain of her being a Mary Sue, i.e. the people who are still pissed that she defeated Kylo and overpowered Luke with no training. LF went so far as to clarify that Luke slipped on a banana peel in the TLJ comic and that's why she was able to best him, so it tells you they are aware of the criticism that her prowess seems unearned.

Either way, that "Mary Sue" noise doesn't bother me personally. The main thing that bugs me is that people are still saying Kylo Ren has poor dueling technique and is less gifted or inferior to Rey and I don't think that's what this is about at all. IMO it would be good to see him show some skills.
@Darth Rowan

The Mary Sue thing I always thought was ridiculous too. I thought Kylo showed off his lightsaber prowess pretty well in the throne room scene of TLJ, it's hard to deny his skill now. He frankly came off better than Rey in the fight IMO. She seemed a bit overwhelmed.

Perhaps if they openly acknowledged the force-bond-download of TFA, which is likely how she is able to do some of the things she is able, per the novelization, some of the Mary Sue whining. It would just be nice to hear that on film, not just places only the big fans will see. I'd like to see Kylo use his combat skills to do some good (like offing the PG), not attacking Rey. Vice versa, I'd like Rey to stop attacking Kylo as well. I can dream....
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Post by Darth Rowan on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 2:24 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
The Mary Sue thing I always thought was ridiculous too. I thought Kylo showed off his lightsaber prowess pretty well in the throne room scene of TLJ, it's hard to deny his skill now. He frankly came off better than Rey in the fight IMO. She seemed a bit overwhelmed.

Perhaps if they openly acknowledged the force-bond-download of TFA, which is likely how she is able to do some of the things she is able, per the novelization, some of the Mary Sue whining. It would just be nice to hear that on film, not just places only the big fans will see. I'd like to see Kylo use his combat skills to do some good (like offing the PG), not attacking Rey. Vice versa, I'd like Rey to stop attacking Kylo as well. I can dream....
@californiagirl

I don't know about Kylo coming off as more skilled in the Praetorian throw down - Kylo might have been a goner if not for that last minute saber toss from Rey. She was the real MVP. Which is awesome, but then again - as a Kylo stan I just want to see my boy shine with his best fancy lightsaber work and I want him to finally silence the haters. My mom still says Kylo is incompetent compared to Anakin and Luke and I just want to be able to say "In your face!!" after episode IX lolol.

And I understand why you don't want to see them duel, but I'm actually looking forward to it haha.  Pop corn

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Post by cherrylipstick on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 2:49 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl

I don't know about Kylo coming off as more skilled in the Praetorian throw down - Kylo might have been a goner if not for that last minute saber toss from Rey. She was the real MVP. Which is awesome, but then again - as a Kylo stan I just want to see my boy shine with his best fancy lightsaber work and I want him to finally silence the haters. My mom still says Kylo is incompetent compared to Anakin and Luke and I just want to be able to say "In your face!!" after episode IX lolol.

And I understand why you don't want to see them duel, but I'm actually looking forward to it haha.  Pop corn

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@Darth Rowan

haha  ROFL
Another Kylo stan here and I can totally feel you on this.
I would like to see them fight even if we already know that they would never kill each other  Rolling Eyes  And I hope that they will show Kylo as the bad*** he is. Actually I think that we have already seen it and that he already proved his power and his skills but haters are blind sometimes Zen

I would also like to see him piloting the MF better than anyone else, after all he's Han son and Poe and his "I'm the best pilot blah blah blah" can suck it! Laughing

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 3:43 pm

@cherrylipstick wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl

I don't know about Kylo coming off as more skilled in the Praetorian throw down - Kylo might have been a goner if not for that last minute saber toss from Rey. She was the real MVP. Which is awesome, but then again - as a Kylo stan I just want to see my boy shine with his best fancy lightsaber work and I want him to finally silence the haters. My mom still says Kylo is incompetent compared to Anakin and Luke and I just want to be able to say "In your face!!" after episode IX lolol.

And I understand why you don't want to see them duel, but I'm actually looking forward to it haha.  Pop corn

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@Darth Rowan

haha  ROFL
Another Kylo stan here and I can totally feel you on this.
I would like to see them fight even if we already know that they would never kill each other  Rolling Eyes  And I hope that they will show Kylo as the bad*** he is. Actually I think that we have already seen it and that he already proved his power and his skills but haters are blind sometimes Zen

I would also like to see him piloting the MF better than anyone else, after all he's Han son and Poe and his "I'm the best pilot blah blah blah" can suck it! Laughing
@cherrylipstick

It just occurred to me, how will Rey fight with her saber if she doesn't have a functioning saber? Shocked
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Post by rey09 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 3:47 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@cherrylipstick wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl

I don't know about Kylo coming off as more skilled in the Praetorian throw down - Kylo might have been a goner if not for that last minute saber toss from Rey. She was the real MVP. Which is awesome, but then again - as a Kylo stan I just want to see my boy shine with his best fancy lightsaber work and I want him to finally silence the haters. My mom still says Kylo is incompetent compared to Anakin and Luke and I just want to be able to say "In your face!!" after episode IX lolol.

And I understand why you don't want to see them duel, but I'm actually looking forward to it haha.  Pop corn

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@Darth Rowan

haha  ROFL
Another Kylo stan here and I can totally feel you on this.
I would like to see them fight even if we already know that they would never kill each other  Rolling Eyes  And I hope that they will show Kylo as the bad*** he is. Actually I think that we have already seen it and that he already proved his power and his skills but haters are blind sometimes Zen

I would also like to see him piloting the MF better than anyone else, after all he's Han son and Poe and his "I'm the best pilot blah blah blah" can suck it! Laughing
@cherrylipstick

It just occurred to me, how will Rey fight with her saber if she doesn't have a functioning saber? Shocked
@californiagirl

One would hope JJ finally lets her build a double saber!!
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Post by cherrylipstick on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 3:53 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@cherrylipstick

It just occurred to me, how will Rey fight with her saber if she doesn't have a functioning saber? Shocked
@californiagirl

Haha well I think that she'll repair it in a way or another. But I haven't decided yet what I would like more: a double-bladed saber or a normal one  Confus

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Post by rawpowah on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 4:08 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@cherrylipstick wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl

I don't know about Kylo coming off as more skilled in the Praetorian throw down - Kylo might have been a goner if not for that last minute saber toss from Rey. She was the real MVP. Which is awesome, but then again - as a Kylo stan I just want to see my boy shine with his best fancy lightsaber work and I want him to finally silence the haters. My mom still says Kylo is incompetent compared to Anakin and Luke and I just want to be able to say "In your face!!" after episode IX lolol.

And I understand why you don't want to see them duel, but I'm actually looking forward to it haha.  Pop corn

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 33 89c
@Darth Rowan

haha  ROFL
Another Kylo stan here and I can totally feel you on this.
I would like to see them fight even if we already know that they would never kill each other  Rolling Eyes  And I hope that they will show Kylo as the bad*** he is. Actually I think that we have already seen it and that he already proved his power and his skills but haters are blind sometimes Zen

I would also like to see him piloting the MF better than anyone else, after all he's Han son and Poe and his "I'm the best pilot blah blah blah" can suck it! Laughing
@cherrylipstick

It just occurred to me, how will Rey fight with her saber if she doesn't have a functioning saber? Shocked
@californiagirl

Imo JJ could save up a lot of time by introducing Rey's new saber in the new teaser poster. It would certainly get people talking. I don't know how interesting it would be to dedicate multiple scenes to her gathering parts for her sword and reading the Jedi Texts.
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Post by Chris24601 on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 6:05 pm

@cherrylipstick wrote:Haha well I think that she'll repair it in a way or another. But I haven't decided yet what I would like more: a double-bladed saber or a normal one  Confus
Personally I’m hoping she rebuilds it as it was because it symbolically works best if it’s the original saber. In terms of the films it was originally introduced as a connection for Luke to his Jedi father, then he loses it just as he learns what REALLY happened to his father. The loss of the saber symbolizes Luke’s loss of connection with his father the hero. In the sequel trilogy the significance of ownership has been passed to Ben. “That lightsaber; it belongs to ME! We also see him use it in TLJs flashbacks opposite Luke’s green blade.

The Skywalker lightsaber represents Ben’s pre-fallen self and how his relationship with Rey can bring him back from the dark side. It is now damaged, but the damage is not irreparable.

Rey transforming the saber into something else doesn’t fit the motif of “nothing is truly gone” and instead suggests that Ben must transform into something new (and more exotic in the case of a saberstaff). Conversely Rey restoring the original saber (a workmanlike like blade of what was once the most common color) is a more effective a metaphor for Rey restoring Ben Solo to his common roots (i.e. his father’s roots).

To me a saberstaff would demonstrate the same sensibilities as the fanboys who wanted Snoke to be Plaguis and Luke to pull off massive Force badassery. Its an appeal to flash over substance; devoid of the deeper meaning we’ve seen employed consistently throughout the ST.

So that’s my prediction; Rey will repair the Skywalker lightsaber as a sign that Ben Solo will also be repaired.


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Post by Saracene on Wed 01 Aug 2018, 6:20 pm

I don't think of Rey as Mary Sue, but I remember watching TLJ for the first time and when the throne room fight was about to start, I had a random thought, I bet Rey won't need help from Kylo and will end up helping him out when it looks like he's in a tough spot. Which is exactly what happened.

I expect things to continue as before, Rey will keep on winning all of her fights and Kylo will probably lose or get injured or get help from Rey. It's not a huge issue or anything, but I wish it wasn't so predictable and that Rey wasn't so protected by the writers.
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 3:37 am

It may be that the unknown regions are going to be featured in IX.
Or, it could be that this is all being set up for 'all new' star wars trilogy Rian is working on.
Or, the upcoming Benioff and Weiss series of star wars films (which are 'separate from both episodic skywalker saga and the recently-announced trilogy being developed by Rian Johnson' (starwars.com).
I think a trilogy or series of movies would better utilise this region - rather than an appearance in the final skwalker movie. But.. I'd be happy with any of these - the unknown regions are going to be super interesting wherever we see them fully explored!
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Post by LadyGaufrette on Thu 02 Aug 2018, 3:50 am

@Chris24601 wrote:
@cherrylipstick wrote:Haha well I think that she'll repair it in a way or another. But I haven't decided yet what I would like more: a double-bladed saber or a normal one  Confus
Personally I’m hoping she rebuilds it as it was because it symbolically works best if it’s the original saber. In terms of the films it was originally introduced as a connection for Luke to his Jedi father, then he loses it just as he learns what REALLY happened to his father. The loss of the saber symbolizes Luke’s loss of connection with his father the hero. In the sequel trilogy the significance of ownership has been passed to Ben. “That lightsaber; it belongs to ME! We also see him use it in TLJs flashbacks opposite Luke’s green blade.

The Skywalker lightsaber represents Ben’s pre-fallen self and how his relationship with Rey can bring him back from the dark side. It is now damaged, but the damage is not irreparable.

Rey transforming the saber into something else doesn’t fit the motif of “nothing is truly gone” and instead suggests that Ben must transform into something new (and more exotic in the case of a saberstaff). Conversely Rey restoring the original saber (a workmanlike like blade of what was once the most common color) is a more effective a metaphor for Rey restoring Ben Solo to his common roots (i.e. his father’s roots).

To me a saberstaff would demonstrate the same sensibilities as the fanboys who wanted Snoke to be Plaguis and Luke to pull off massive Force badassery. Its an appeal to flash over substance; devoid of the deeper meaning we’ve seen employed consistently throughout the ST.

So that’s my prediction; Rey will repair the Skywalker lightsaber as a sign that Ben Solo will also be repaired.

@Chris24601

I like your thinking. What do you think if Rey repairs the Skywalker lightsaber, not for her but for Ben (to give him in the end of the movie to replace his destroyed current lightsaber)? As for Rey, she constructs her own lightsaber, a step in the Jedi way, with her staff (remembering the past) and a new crystal (embrassing the future). This could symbolize Rey taking her own way in the story. As for the staff, for long I imagined a double staff but now I'm more a supporter of a lance/pyke.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 1:27 pm

For those who didn't see the news yet, the Academy (aka the Oscars folk) are adding in a popular movie category to the Academy Awards. No further details yet.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academy-plans-three-hour-oscars-telecast-adds-popular-film-category-1133138

I have mixed feelings. I get that the academy wants to stay relevant and offer a greater variety of films that people have seen and relate to, since they used to be better at that in the distant past. Honestly, SW was kind of the end of that era. It swept a bunch of awards, and we've barely seen anything like that since. The slippery slope of Best Picture vs. popular indicates the main category is not popular and the popular category is not as good or artistically worthy. Ugh. Can't they just have different genre categories is they want a greater selection of films? Some have suggested that the Academy just wants to deprive Black Panther of a Best Picture nom.

Also they're cutting out certain categories from the telecast (read: probably short and documentary films and technical categories) so they only show the winners instead of all the nominees. Even though that's one of the things that made the Oscars unusual among awards shows, actually showing all the categories. This could also be a slight ding against SW, since they have been relegated to the technical categories, though they still do better than almost all other blockbuster films.

This will probably affect SW down the road. Maybe not this coming year, since Solo had just okay reviews and a poor financial performance (it will probably get nominated for visual effects though). But come IX? Or Rian's and Benioff and Weiss' trilogies? And especially since Disney could try to do a big end-of-trilogy awards push like Return of the King (even if LotR was treated more like prestige films than any other blockbuster I can think of in my lifetime).
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Post by Mila95 on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 1:37 pm

To me it seems like an attempt to make the oscars more popular and get better ratings for their broadcasts.Adding this category means they'll be able to invite all the most popular actors every year and not just a few as presenters.I do think some of the "popular" movies get overlooked because they're blockbusters or superhero movies but they could have just made an effort to not exclude those movies just based on genre instead of adding a category that makes it seem like are not good enough for the main category.

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Post by californiagirl on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 2:24 pm

@Mila95 wrote:To me it seems like an attempt to make the oscars more popular and get better ratings for their broadcasts.Adding this category means they'll be able to invite all the most popular actors every year and not just a few as presenters.I do think some of the "popular" movies get overlooked because they're blockbusters or superhero movies but they could have just made an effort to not exclude those movies just based on genre instead of adding a category that makes it seem like are not good enough for the main category.
@Mila95

It seems even more annoying when I think of all the categories that could exist but don't: stuntpeople, casting directors, ensemble cast, performances in animated films or motion capture.

The entire point of expanding the Best Picture category to 9-10 nominees was to include a wider variety of films, but it's the same kinds that still win every year.
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Post by Mila95 on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 2:39 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@Mila95 wrote:To me it seems like an attempt to make the oscars more popular and get better ratings for their broadcasts.Adding this category means they'll be able to invite all the most popular actors every year and not just a few as presenters.I do think some of the "popular" movies get overlooked because they're blockbusters or superhero movies but they could have just made an effort to not exclude those movies just based on genre instead of adding a category that makes it seem like are not good enough for the main category.
@Mila95

It seems even more annoying when I think of all the categories that could exist but don't: stuntpeople, casting directors, ensemble cast, performances in animated films or motion capture.

The entire point of expanding the Best Picture category to 9-10 nominees was to include a wider variety of films, but it's the same kinds that still win every year.
@californiagirl

Yeah and I feel like it's gonna lead to them nominating movies that would deserve a best picture nom in the popular movies category that's gonna be seen as less anyway.They nominate 10 movies,thats enough to include popular movies that deserve it.I like the idea of different movies being given a chance but I don't think this is the best way tho.

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Post by Atenais on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 3:54 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@californiagirl wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
Re: bold, honestly for me as a Kylo stan I would love if the duel between Rey and Kylo evened out the playing field and made it clear that they are equals and in balance - she defeated him in VII, there was a stalemate in VIII with the lightsaber, so I want him to defeat her in IX just to keep it even. I think it would be good for them both. XD
Of course he would be incapable of hurting her, let alone killing her and bla bla. Alternatively, I am fine with it being a draw. Definitely this should happen earlier on in the movie!

To be honest it's not like I'll throw popcorn at the screen if this happens at the very end and the duel ends with a kiss and a happily ever after.  lol!

Still it would be such a missed opportunity if they leave Kylo Ren's redemption to the very end. One of the main narrative points of the ST is that Kylo Ren is NOT Darth Vader, so there is no reason for his redemption to emulate Vader's in that regard.
@Darth Rowan

Given that Rey has been more aggressive/violent than him, and we're trying to endear the audience to Kylo, I don't think it would be productive to have Kylo physically overpower or defeat Rey. He's pretty mild around her most of the time. And these movies have been pretty keen on making Rey look good on her moral high ground. He will never outdo his Crait tantrum anyway! Very Happy
@californiagirl

I disagree - I think that seeing Rey NOT emerge victorious for once would help her image with the fanboys (and girls, to be fair) who complain of her being a Mary Sue, i.e. the people who are still pissed that she defeated Kylo and overpowered Luke with no training. LF went so far as to clarify that Luke slipped on a banana peel in the TLJ comic and that's why she was able to best him, so it tells you they are aware of the criticism that her prowess seems unearned.

Either way, that "Mary Sue" noise doesn't bother me personally. The main thing that bugs me is that people are still saying Kylo Ren has poor dueling technique and is less gifted or inferior to Rey and I don't think that's what this is about at all. IMO it would be good to see him show some skills.
@Darth Rowan

The Mary Sue thing I always thought was ridiculous too. I thought Kylo showed off his lightsaber prowess pretty well in the throne room scene of TLJ, it's hard to deny his skill now. He frankly came off better than Rey in the fight IMO. She seemed a bit overwhelmed.

Perhaps if they openly acknowledged the force-bond-download of TFA, which is likely how she is able to do some of the things she is able, per the novelization, some of the Mary Sue whining. It would just be nice to hear that on film, not just places only the big fans will see. I'd like to see Kylo use his combat skills to do some good (like offing the PG), not attacking Rey. Vice versa, I'd like Rey to stop attacking Kylo as well. I can dream....
@californiagirl

I agree with you about not being productive of Kylo overpowering Rey. TBH, I can't even see him really attacking her, he's pretty mild around her and I don't think it would be good, since, as you said, we're trying to endear the audience to him. And, wow, after the throne room fight, it was pretty clear that Kylo was the best fighter, no? I read about it everywhere and everybody I know - that was reasonable and liked the movie - thought Kylo was, hum, stronger, he overpowered more PGs than Rey. And I don't think the last PG would defeat him, it would take him more time to kill him, and Rey just quickened it.

And I found the Mary Sue issue pretty annoying. We could say that Luke was a Marty Stu, but nobody cared, of course, since he was a male character. This is fantasies, people there are pretty much Maries and Marties Sues! XD
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 4:14 pm

@californiagirl wrote:For those who didn't see the news yet, the Academy (aka the Oscars folk) are adding in a popular movie category to the Academy Awards. No further details yet.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/race/academy-plans-three-hour-oscars-telecast-adds-popular-film-category-1133138

I have mixed feelings. I get that the academy wants to stay relevant and offer a greater variety of films that people have seen and relate to, since they used to be better at that in the distant past. Honestly, SW was kind of the end of that era. It swept a bunch of awards, and we've barely seen anything like that since. The slippery slope of Best Picture vs. popular indicates the main category is not popular and the popular category is not as good or artistically worthy. Ugh. Can't they just have different genre categories is they want a greater selection of films? Some have suggested that the Academy just wants to deprive Black Panther of a Best Picture nom.

Also they're cutting out certain categories from the telecast (read: probably short and documentary films and technical categories) so they only show the winners instead of all the nominees. Even though that's one of the things that made the Oscars unusual among awards shows, actually showing all the categories. This could also be a slight ding against SW, since they have been relegated to the technical categories, though they still do better than almost all other blockbuster films.

This will probably affect SW down the road. Maybe not this coming year, since Solo had just okay reviews and a poor financial performance (it will probably get nominated for visual effects though). But come IX? Or Rian's and Benioff and Weiss' trilogies? And especially since Disney could try to do a big end-of-trilogy awards push like Return of the King (even if LotR was treated more like prestige films than any other blockbuster I can think of in my lifetime).
@californiagirl

This to me illustrates that The Academy acknowledges there is an elitist/snobbish reality with their voters, and they give up (plus they want the viewer ratings to increase) that an Animated Feature, and minus the rare tentpole (Titanic and Return of the King) - blockbusters will never win Best Picture, or it will be so rare, it becomes frustrating for the fans of such movies...so...they created the Animated Feature category because of that, and now this category too.

This year will be a true test because this will not become effective until 2020 (I believe) - if Black Panther is not nominated for Best Picture, then their instinct about their voters is correct. If it is nominated, and then wins - or has great buzz to win (yet loses) -it is obviously premature.

I have a feeling that the inspiration for this was Wonder Woman because it did receive a Producers Guild Award nomination, which usually then indicates a Best Picture nomination with the Oscars. When that did not happen, they concluded their voters have a bias, which cannot be overcome. Plus, Gal Gadot was gracious, and still showed up, and I bet her involvement with that visit a theatre piece had great repeat viewing on Youtube, which also caused them to consider the popularity category.

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Post by Saracene on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 4:15 pm

"Best Popular Movie"? Blehhh could this category sound any more condescending? Let's magnanimously award a movie the ignorant masses enjoyed at the cinema while cutting out the tech people behind the scenes who made them happen. As if I needed more reasons to start ignoring the Oscars.
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Post by californiagirl on Wed 08 Aug 2018, 6:14 pm

@Saracene wrote:"Best Popular Movie"? Blehhh could this category sound any more condescending? Let's magnanimously award a movie the ignorant masses enjoyed at the cinema while cutting out the tech people behind the scenes who made them happen. As if I needed more reasons to start ignoring the Oscars.
@Saracene

There really are some major plebians v. patricians vibes going on here.

On the bright side, this announcement made film Twitter go RAHR today like I have rarely seen before.
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Post by Apriljandy on Sun 19 Aug 2018, 12:24 pm

I have this strange feeling that Keri will indeed play as Rey's mother and at the same time a FO assassin working for Hux. I have this head cannon that Rey and Keri's character fight and Rey accidentally reads her mind and sees the memory of her being left behind and the fact that Keri's character was not at all regretful of what she had done. This could finally push Rey to move on. To make it more dramatic, Rey ends up killing Keri's character to save someone she loves (prolly Ben).

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