Predictions for Episode 9

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by LadyGaufrette on Tue 04 Sep 2018, 2:45 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:
@LadyGaufrette wrote:Nothing has indicated he'll be a bad ruler. With the start of TFA, we know he is very effective when he is not distracted. For a moment, he can concentrate on rulling the galaxy while the Resistance nurses its wounds. Until now, LF had shown the good and bad sides of a Republic, I would like for them to show the good side of a single leader. Kylo could be like The Prince of Machiavelli and this is not considered as a dictator. And isn't it better if despite being a good ruler he still doesn't feel satisfied, having what he thought he wanted but in fact being wrong?

In the end we may have Benperor working with the Senate like the constitutional monarchy in UK, or Ben giving back his power to the Senate as a subversion of Palpatine's scene during ROTS. Or he could keep the power and share with Rey (Descendants of the Fel Empire, with force user Emperors, was likely from the same family that Jaina Solo).

@LadyGaufrette

Thank you! Finally someone sharing my views! Claps Claps Claps

No idea if LF or JJ will go there...but I have enough of the depressed, sad & beaten "failure Kylo Ren". I want him to be a good ruler- trying to change the galaxy for the better. They don't need to portray the FO as the good guys...but they can show Kylo's good intentions.

By the end he can either decide to bring the FO down himself, because he finally understands a fascist military organization with a bunch of maniacs like Hux aren't the right people to achieve his goals- or he hands over his power voluntarily.

What I don't think they'll do is some complicated plot with too many twists- I would like that personally...but we shouldn't forget that these movies are also for kids. Nope
@Night Huntress

To be fair towards Kylo, I think he already know that. His situation is more of "Do it with whatever you found", like Finn and Rose with DJ. It's far from perfect but it's all they have. It can be a good plan. You seize power, you eliminate corruption, slavery and other toxic institutions, you make it so order is maintain and then you eliminate the bad part of your power (Bye bye Hux Waves, and maybe the old imperials who want revenge against the Republic).
Would that be complicated for children? I honestly don't know.

(I feel I had already seen this kind of story somewhere, but can't remember where scratch)

Edit
@snufkin
But what if he thinks creating peace is going to bring Rey back to him?


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Night Huntress on Tue 04 Sep 2018, 3:12 pm

@LadyGaufrette

yeah, he knows - but like you said...he thinks he can use them as a "tool" to achieve his goals...maybe it works to a certain extent- maybe it backfires sooner or later? We'll see.

children are smarter than we give them credit. I was thinking about a very complicated plot like in a political thriller for example.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by LadyGaufrette on Tue 04 Sep 2018, 3:49 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:@LadyGaufrette

yeah, he knows - but like you said...he thinks he can use them as a "tool" to achieve his goals...maybe it works to a certain extent- maybe it backfires sooner or later? We'll see.

children are smarter than we give them credit. I was thinking about a very complicated plot like in a political thriller for example.

@Night Huntress

Even smarter than some adults I know.

Concerning Kylo's leadership.
We know Hux has the stormtroopers' loyalty but he is despised by the old imperials. Can they support Kylo even if we know they represent something he hates? For all they know, Kylo became Supreme Leader by his merits contrary to Hux who had his position thanks to his father.
Kylo is also a lost boy, I think he can appeale to the younger generation in the First Order because as a Supreme Leader he will be the one to give them a home. (Those people grew up thinking their home was stolen by the New Republic)

For a political thriller, I think it may be difficult but because of the timing. We need action scenes and war battles. We need to spend time with the Resistance. We need to spend time with Rey and with the Force plot. Futhermore, seeing how much time JJ spent on politics in TFA, I don't think we will have a complicated political plot in IX (but I like surprise, so JJ go ahead!).
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by californiagirl on Thu 06 Sep 2018, 5:58 pm

Remember that "popular" film category the Academy was going to add to the Oscars? Well, that concept died pretty fast.

Even if that means the likes of SW and other higher-quality blockbusters continue to get sidelined in the fairly insular ceremony, at least they won't get the consolation prize. The whole thing was generally condescending and insulting. Like best picture means a film isn't considered popular, and popular movies aren't good enough to sit at the grown up table.

Really, the popular Oscar and the TLJ remake are among the few times I've seen the entire internet unite in anything, even if it was in unanimous rejection of something.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/academy-postponing-new-popular-oscar-category-1140423
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Kylo Rey on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 5:49 pm

The part in the novelisation where Kylo looks into Rey's eyes in the final force bond scene and sees no compassion there (from his POV) could potentially foreshadow the nature of his redemption in IX. Kylo believes that his chances with Rey are now over, so he won't be looking to win her back and therefore just redeem himself because of that. Any steps he takes towards redemption are therefore more selfless and altruistic (which is necessary for redemption). Then you can have romance be a natural and organic byproduct of that (if Rey sees that he has changed). This is the best route to take IMO, and reduces the more problematic aspects in which redemption intertwined with romance can have.

And since this trilogy loves to be meta (JJ started it, not Rian - as meta as TLJ is), it wouldn't be too far fetched to see Kylo internalise the GA opinion that Rey shut the door on them being together completely at the end of TLJ.


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 6:11 pm

I'm of the opinion that he ends TLJ thinking that he's utterly and completely lost her and will start IX having to face the consequences of assuming she was in cahoots with Luke and blaming her for Snoke's death.  

So these two articles are interesting because while I 100% think both publications have terrible and incorrect positions on how the ST will conclude (evul Kyle Ron who is a strawman for toxic fanboys and bad boyfriends is doomed), these are two details which I believe are strong themes written into the story from the start and why Han's death will be part of the conclusion of Ben's arc in the IX

Too Much of His Father in Him/Too Much of Your Father's Heart Young Solo

How Solo Makes Sense of Han’s Entire Character Arc

Whatever stories or films materialize between Solo and A New Hope, it is inevitable that Han and Qi’ra will meet again, and that Han will probably still want her to leave that life behind and come away with him. He will have to learn, eventually, that while she was the one who insisted that he leave Corellia without her, his doing so had eternal consequences. He cannot undo the time they have spent apart by being dashing and funny and finally available to her—he has lost someone he loved.

...
Losing someone again destroys Han—it ultimately kills him, when all is said and done. And we’ve learned from the current Star Wars novels that he spent the intervening years expanding his weird little galactic family. He trained and shepherded young pilots who needed a way out. He always had Lando’s back. He helped Chewie liberate Kashyyyk after the Empire fell. Dropping cargo isn’t something that Han Solo cares too much about in the long run, even if it gives him a boatload of trouble. But people who need him right now? Watch him drop everything, even if he rolls his eyes while he’s doing it. Even if he insists that none of it is worth it.

You don’t always get a second chance to help someone. Han Solo learned that very early on in life, and spent the rest of it being mindful of that fact. The greatest legacy that Solo leaves behind will always be that kernel of backstory; when the film wasn’t too busy trying to explain away Han’s circumstances, it explained the most important thing of all—his heart.

And then there's this tidbit from the May 2015 launch issue of Vanity Fair where they asked Kasdan about a potential return by Lando:

You wrote and directed The Big Chill, which certainly touches on that subject—time passing, youth in the rear-view mirror. Did you draw on that at all when you were working on episode VII?

I think everything that I’ve ever directed and written is about that in one way or another. And I’ll tell you something, I’ve got three grandchildren now and that theme just comes up every day. How am I affecting them? Is my experience of any use to them? Do they give a s***? I’ve just been reading a lot of Dennis Lehane. He’s obsessed with the same things that I am: fathers and sons and passing on wisdom; the inability to gain wisdom, which is really what interests me; and death, which defines all our life.

For all the complaining by some fans about Solo, it still stands that it's a film written by a father and son and the scenes between Han and Ben (renamed to have the same name as Harrison Ford's oldest son) were written by the same father and son.  As much as the franchise is shamefully overdue to have at least one character besides Lando's mom be able to survive and actually raise her child, let alone depicting mother and daughter relationships on screen, I take the evidence as I see it. The ST was written as a story about fathers and sons and I have a hard time believing that none of this is random and not infused with the relationships/hopes of the people who've involved their own families into this story.


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Saracene on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 6:45 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:The part in the novelisation where Kylo looks into Rey's eyes in the final force bond scene and sees no compassion there (from his POV) could potentially foreshadow the nature of his redemption in IX. Kylo believes that his chances with Rey are now over, so he won't be looking to win her back and therefore just redeem himself because of that. Any steps he takes towards redemption are therefore more selfless and altruistic (which is necessary for redemption). Then you can have romance be a natural and organic byproduct of that (if Rey sees that he has changed). This is the best route to take IMO, and reduces the more problematic aspects in which redemption intertwined with romance can have.

And since this trilogy loves to be meta (JJ started it, not Rian - as meta as TLJ is), it wouldn't be too far fetched to see Kylo internalise the GA audience opinion that Rey shut the door on them being together completely at the end of TLJ.
@Kylo Rey

Yeah a decision that's 100% selfless is something that appears a lot in Beauty and the Beast-type stories. In Disney's Beauty and the Beast it's Beast letting Belle go, in Phantom of the Opera it's Phantom likewise letting Christine go. It's interesting to compare at what point in the story the selfless act happens; in BatB the love story is mutual and Beast's selfless act doesn't happen at the very very end, like Phantom's does.

IMO the easiest way to achieve this is to put Kylo in a situation where he has to choose between saving Rey's life or forfeiting his own. But unlike Vader it wouldn't happen in the last ten minutes or end with Kylo's death, and then maybe in turn put Rey in a position where she decides to go and save him. I think I've mentioned it before, but if you resolve the tension of "will Kylo stay bad" you'll need another kind of tension to take its place, like "will Kylo die".
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by californiagirl on Tue 11 Sep 2018, 7:51 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:The part in the novelisation where Kylo looks into Rey's eyes in the final force bond scene and sees no compassion there (from his POV) could potentially foreshadow the nature of his redemption in IX. Kylo believes that his chances with Rey are now over, so he won't be looking to win her back and therefore just redeem himself because of that. Any steps he takes towards redemption are therefore more selfless and altruistic (which is necessary for redemption). Then you can have romance be a natural and organic byproduct of that (if Rey sees that he has changed). This is the best route to take IMO, and reduces the more problematic aspects in which redemption intertwined with romance can have.

And since this trilogy loves to be meta (JJ started it, not Rian - as meta as TLJ is), it wouldn't be too far fetched to see Kylo internalise the GA opinion that Rey shut the door on them being together completely at the end of TLJ.
@Kylo Rey

The trilogy exists to be meta. You have to grapple with the past before you can move on. It's unfortunate that even now, there isn't a general awareness or discussion that this began in TFA. Instead, the narrative is that TFA is just trying to emulate the past for the sake of worshiping it, while TLJ wants to destroy the past for the sake of destroying it. I suppose this isn't entirely false, but it's exaggerated. The two films are being treated like polar opposites. It would be unfortunate if the resolution of the ST is attributed to the influence of TLJ, or something invented for IX. Hopefully IX will achieve more, you know, balance between the two approaches. Smile

I second the notion of Kylo having no hope of being with Rey, from both film and novel. Otherwise Rey is like a prize to be won, some reward for his good behavior. Which is both selfish and possessive, and not at all where Kylo's arc should leave. Nor has Rey been treated in this way, she's on her own terms if she will be with him or not. Moreover, Kylo's attempted dominance over her (abduction, interrogation, "bring Skywalker to me" at the beginning of TLJ) or suggesting her fate (you need a teacher, ruling the galaxy, etc.) all backfire on him. That's clearly not the road to becoming a better person. The audience needs to actually want him to live happily ever after.

I suspect he turns not only before the last 10 minutes of the movie, but at the halfway or even one third mark. I think with the time skip, it would be plausible for Kylo at the beginning to already be planning something to either dismantle the FO's power structures from within or otherwise stop Hux from doing something horrific, but the audience only finds this out when Rey does. Hence she starts to become closer to him again. Hence lots of time for drama in which the Resistance and FO learn about the force bond and the leaders of their respective sides dating and also working together. Hence Reylo on the run, possibly having to save the galaxy largely by themselves, saving what we love, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised if Kylo does not one but a series of self-sacrificial acts, another reason it would be good to have him reforming early on. Again, the audience needs good reason to want him to live and have a major role in not only Rey's life, but reshaping the galaxy.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Saracene on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 4:33 pm

Regarding Finn, I wonder how Episode IX will handle his character and whether he'll get to participate in the Skywalker family drama or whether he'll be designated to the Resistance B-plot only.

I think that a big part of why Finn's character felt diminished in TLJ, other than him having to share the Resistance storyline with Poe and being saddled with a boring arc/subplot, is that he was no longer connected to the Skywalker drama which is the heart of the series. In TFA he shared scenes with Kylo and teamed up with Han, and was a part of the "map to Luke" storyline. In TLJ he was essentially cut off from the Skywalker drama, and never got to develop a meaningful dynamic with Leia (Poe on the other hand had a strong working relationship with her).
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by californiagirl on Thu 13 Sep 2018, 5:09 pm

@Saracene wrote:Regarding Finn, I wonder how Episode IX will handle his character and whether he'll get to participate in the Skywalker family drama or whether he'll be designated to the Resistance B-plot only.

I think that a big part of why Finn's character felt diminished in TLJ, other than him having to share the Resistance storyline with Poe and being saddled with a boring arc/subplot, is that he was no longer connected to the Skywalker drama which is the heart of the series. In TFA he shared scenes with Kylo and teamed up with Han, and was a part of the "map to Luke" storyline. In TLJ he was essentially cut off from the Skywalker drama, and never got to develop a meaningful dynamic with Leia (Poe on the other hand had a strong working relationship with her).
@Saracene

I'm also a little uncertain, but with JJ back, since he had Finn pretty involved with the Rey-Luke-Kylo story, and all the threads brought the together by the end of TLJ, I'm hoping he can be more involved.

But even if he's mostly with the Resistance end of things, there are more interesting things to do than separate him into his own subplot (still hoping for FO rebellion from within). That doesn't seem to be the direction they are going in anyway, since the Resistance bunch are back together again and he appears to be with Poe. It wouldn't really make sense at this point either, as it's the second act (TLJ) that is supposed to be the uncomfortable one challenging the characters and yanking them out of their comfort zone. Act 3 (IX) should be more the culmination of his arc than separating him from everyone.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 21 Sep 2018, 7:41 pm

Someone leaked Adam Driver's kissing scene from The Man who killed Don Quixote and after watching that, I have to say, if LFL and JJ Abrams don't utilise Adam's kissing skills it'll be the biggest waste in the history of cinema. It can easily have the potential to be the hottest kissing scene in SW history, but if they go through with it, I'm not sure if they'd allow Adam to unleash his trademark intensity on Daisy or just tone it down for the kids, lol. It would be a criminal waste of their sexual tension if they never kiss. Adam EXCELS at it.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by LadyGaufrette on Sat 20 Oct 2018, 4:15 am

Someone summarized why I think that IX is going to have a reylo happy ending.




The Original Trilogy mirrors itself by having the heroes separated in the second movie and reunited in the third. The Prequel Trilogy had two ultra-happy endings and then one tragic ending where the main lovers (Anakin and Padme) were separated forever.

In order to perfectly mirror the Prequel Trilogy (it rhymes), the Sequel Trilogy will separate the lovers in the first two movies, but must end with the lovers reunited forever. And it’s going to be the happiest movie ending of them all.

http://corseque.tumblr.com/post/179135142252
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 27 Oct 2018, 3:12 pm

Hi all I found this few days ago on Reddit and wasn’t sure where to post it but found this thread and thought it belonged here . I don’t know if anyone has read “Dawn of the Jedi “ . Ok it’s not canon ( don’t let that put you off )but came out when the sequel trilogy was already in the works and there are uncanny similarities between the leads and some of the plot of sequel trilogy and where it could go. Am gonna read it . Like Bastila and Revan , Xesh and Shae seem to be a huge inspiration for Rey and kylo . It is a long read but very interesting - all credits to the poster( in the links below) :

Parallels between Reylo and the "Dawn of the Jedi" comics [Part 1]
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/9r2mff/parallels_between_reylo_and_the_dawn_of_the_jedi/?st=JNQ88977&sh=8b9eade0

Parallels between Reylo and the "Dawn of the Jedi" comics [Part 2]
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/9rblxd/parallels_between_reylo_and_the_dawn_of_the_jedi/?st=JNQ8EHPA&sh=fa9b019a

Parallels between Reylo and the "Dawn of the Jedi" comics [Part 3]
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsCantina/comments/9rlzxb/parallels_between_reylo_and_the_dawn_of_the_jedi/?st=JNQ8GUYD&sh=ff00e0d7

And there’s art like this in the comic (first scene could have been where we got the leak about kylo giving Rey kiss of life in the cave , second the fight , and third make out scene which looks like this could happen somewhere like the falcon??!).







I know they aren’t kylo and rey but the parallels in their story are very similar - interesting ......
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Sat 27 Oct 2018, 5:51 pm

@AhsokaTano wait there's a leak about Kylo giving rey kiss of life??
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by AhsokaTano on Sat 27 Oct 2018, 5:58 pm

@rey09
Sorry should have made it clearer .My apologies. No leak that we’ve heard from episode 9 with this. Do you remember some of the “ leaks” from last Jedi that we’re going around when they were filming and one of them was a cave scene and Ben saving rey from drowning after their so called “fight” on the cliff? And there was some speculation about kiss of life ?None of this happened of course in TLJ and not even sure where the rumoured “ leaks” came from at the time but when I saw the above this reminded me of it and obviously the poster on Reddit thought the same .
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Sat 27 Oct 2018, 6:14 pm

@AhsokaTano wrote:@rey09
Sorry should have made it clearer .My apologies. No leak that we’ve heard from episode 9 with this. Do you remember some of the “ leaks” from last Jedi that we’re going around when they were filming and one of them was a cave scene and Ben saving rey from drowning after their so called “fight” on the cliff? And there was some speculation about kiss of life ?None of this happened of course in TLJ and not even sure where the rumoured “ leaks” came from at the time but when I saw the above this reminded me of it and obviously the poster on Reddit thought the same .
@AhsokaTano

oo ok loll
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by DeeBee on Fri 02 Nov 2018, 11:26 pm

Hi Everyone!
Hey I just saw for the first time a reference to the Knights of Ren as 'dark side users' [shared this source and content here in the KOR thread]
Now I am much more confident we will be seeing them in IX!

I predict the KOR will side with Hux, and Ben and Rey will need to defeat them together!
sunny

edited to add: The source I shared also confirmed Kylo and the KOR destroyed Luke's Jedi academy - this doesn't (IMHO) confirm the fellow students who left with Kylo/Ben are now the KOR, but it makes it more likely.. This all also makes it more likely that we are going to learn more about the destruction of the Jedi academy in IX!


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 1:33 am

If there's one thing I'd love to know: is the scene in Rey's Force vision in TFA where Kylo kills someone to save her in the future?
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by DeeBee on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 2:06 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:If there's one thing I'd love to know: is the scene in Rey's Force vision in TFA where Kylo kills someone to save her in the future?
@motherofpearl1

I find this fascinating too motherofpearl1!
I share some of my thoughts/ideas on the force vision in the KOR thread in light of TFA comic adaptation coverage of the vision. HERE [I'd be interested to hear your thoughts!] and why I think Rey is seeing Kylo/Ben and the KOR at the destruction of the jedi academy.
I'm not sure what to make of Kylo killing someone in front of Rey in her force vision - is he doing it to save her life? or is Rey just witnessing Kylo slaughtering one of his fellow students with no relation to her even being there at that point in the vision?
I wonder, because he kills before he notices her in the vision and seems to walk toward her. not sure..
I think it's likely IX will not give us specific answers about the force vision in TFA. but it's fun to play around with it anyway! we'll see- maybe we will find out more in IX. I think I'd rather find out about TLJ visions they had in the hutt H-beating

If the force vision was Kylo killing someone to save Rey in the future, we could say that is what happened with Kylo killed Snoke maybe?
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 2:19 am

The similarities between the two do seem strong....and the differences can be attributed to how unreliable Force visions can be. In the PT Anakin turned to the dark to save Padme after having a vision of her death.....only for his turn to the dark causing it. I couldn't help but think that Luke made exactly the same mistake in TLJ.....his attempt to prevent the rise of Kylo Ren actually created him, Darth Vader's tragic legacy.

One thing that I remember is the 'leaks' from TLJ mentioned special effects had to make a number of 'unignited lightsabres' for one scene....it had to be the burning temple scene, although it's pretty hard to make them out among the bodies of the dead padawans. This to me is an enormous hint at the circumstances of the 'temple slaughter'....those padawans were armed. Ben Solo and his companions may very well have been forced to fight them, which essentially means they didn't slaughter anyone, it was a fair fight.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Chris24601 on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 2:29 pm

@DeeBee
I don’t think the Kylo Ren with the presumably Knights of Ren in the rain vision was of the Jedi Temple “slaughter.” We know from TLJ now that Ben was in his Jedi Robes or bedclothes and armed with Anakin’s saber at the time. He didn’t adopt the Kylo Ren moniker, mask and crackling broadsaber until later. The same I think would hold for any of the other students who joined him. My hunch is it will be some future event.

I do think the lightsabers among the corpses of the Jedi students point to it being less a massacre and more a heated argument that erupted into violence. Further, I’d think it unlikely that none of the students who sided with Ben were killed in the process; which would further mean it wasn’t just some small violent minority on Ben’s side... it might have even been close to an even split with the “handful” being all that survived a battle with heavy losses on both sides.

Another detail relevant to the prospect that it was NOT a deliberate slaughter and also suggests that Ben’s side did NOT start the fight, is that Luke, despite being incapacitated and helpless, was left alive. If Ben and his allies started the fight intent on slaughtering all those still loyal to Luke... why would they have left Luke alive after killing all the rest of the students?

Instead, what that suggests is that it was another group of students who attacked Ben first (probably believing he had attacked Luke out of malice... not believing Master Luke could have ever done such a thing as even consider killing his own nephew) and that Ben’s allies then acted to defend Ben. Students on both sides died, but Ben and a handful of the students who’d helped defend him were victorious. They didn’t kill Luke because all they were trying to do was save Ben and that had been accomplished. Ben, feeling absolutely betrayed, threw away his lightsaber and left. The rest of the survivors followed suit.

What might actually be MORE interesting than those handful of students becoming the Knights of Ren is if instead they just went back to their old lives... completely disillusioned with becoming Jedi after what went down. Ben drifted and was recruited by Snoke, but the others are still out there and, if Rey were to run across one, might provide a very different picture of what went down than we’ve seen. Hearing the story not from Kylo, but a third party with no agenda would go a LONG way towards humanizing and justifying Ben’s actions after the Temple.

The same individual could relate to Rey how Ben felt abandoned by his family, who’d left him with a man who’d ended up trying to kill him. How could he trust the father and mother who’d turned him over to Luke? Bonus points if they could somehow associate this with Rey’s parents turning her over to Unkar Plutt.

They could help us further understand Ben’s actions by giving us a flashback to when Han dropped off Ben with Luke and asking Ben to trust him that this is what is best for him... have some key part of Han’s reassurances to young Ben be identical to Han’s plea to his son at Starkiller to explain why Ben ultimately couldn’t trust his father’s assurances that he could just come home.

Side-bar: do we know how old Ben was when he became Luke’s student? There’s a huge difference between being sent to Luke as a teenager than if he were shipped off at 9 years old (to mirror young Anakin). Imagine being nine and sent away from your parents because they were SCARED of you? (He could sense their feelings and while it may have been they were afraid for him rather than of him, good luck explaining that to a nine year old).

Anyway, I do rather hope the Knights of Ren turn out to NOT be Luke’s former students because that means yet another group of people Ben trusts would ultimately end up betraying him (which is why he’d have to kill them to save Rey if the vision were of the future). It may not be as overt as getting sold off to a junk dealer for drinking money (and good grief... how did I miss that until now... Rey’s parents sold her off to a man who dealt in garbage because her parents thought of Rey as garbage), but Ben’s been betrayed in one way or another by everyone in his life and it’d be nice to know that there might actually be someone out there other than Rey who might actually give half-a-damn about Ben Solo (who may not even know he became Kylo Ren) once Leia inevitably passes.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by SanghaRen on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 3:19 pm

@Chris24601

I thought Ben’s lightsaber in the Jedi Temple scene is not Anakin’s. The hilt is apparently different. I am no expert. Was it ever confirmed it’s Anakin’s? Why would he not have it with him at the time of TFA then?

Who’s to say the story does not go in IX with the KoR going against Ben and at the end decide to also ditch the FO ways and join him in a new type of Jedi Order without the stupid rules? The KoR could consist of people who are conflicted and others who are gone to the dark side making some of them side with him and others against him. So many possibilities. I’d love a final battle scene FO versus Resistance ending with everyone dropping their weapons except for Hux still screaming like a fanatic to finish it. I vote for Finn to slap him in the face then.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by DeeBee on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 5:56 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:The similarities between the two do seem strong....and the differences can be attributed to how unreliable Force visions can be. In the PT Anakin turned to the dark to save Padme after having a vision of her death.....only for his turn to the dark causing it. I couldn't help but think that Luke made exactly the same mistake in TLJ.....his attempt to prevent the rise of Kylo Ren actually created him, Darth Vader's tragic legacy.
@motherofpearl1
Unreliable force visions is spot on IMHO! Interpret at your own risk lol!
There was a very cool part of TLJ Novelisation where Snoke talks about the unreliability of visions.

@motherofpearl1 wrote:One thing that I remember is the 'leaks' from TLJ mentioned special effects had to make a number of 'unignited lightsabres' for one scene....it had to be the burning temple scene, although it's pretty hard to make them out among the bodies of the dead padawans. This to me is an enormous hint at the circumstances of the 'temple slaughter'....those padawans were armed. Ben Solo and his companions may very well have been forced to fight them, which essentially means they didn't slaughter anyone, it was a fair fight.
@motherofpearl1
I had not heard this leak! I'll put this info on my maybe pile. because I haven't seen it covered in canon- yet!
The jedi padawan carring their lightsabers makes a lot of sense!
Kylo/Ben did slaughter some of his fellow students - it's not black and white - He's responsible for what happened that night.. I think when we finally know what happened that night - Kylo/Ben is going to be grey - but he is not going to be white. Does that make sense?
In TLJ Kylo/Ben says to Rey:Did he tell you what happened? The night I destroyed his temple. Did he tell you why?
Kylo/Ben destroyed Luke's temple the 'why' changes the meaning of the act - so we'll see if we are given more of the 'why' for the slaughter of his fellow padawans I guess!

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
I don’t think the Kylo Ren with the presumably Knights of Ren in the rain vision was of the Jedi Temple “slaughter.” We know from TLJ now that Ben was in his Jedi Robes or bedclothes and armed with Anakin’s saber at the time. He didn’t adopt the Kylo Ren moniker, mask and crackling broadsaber until later. The same I think would hold for any of the other students who joined him. My hunch is it will be some future event.
@Chris24601
My comment in the KOR thread covered why I don't take it literally what they are wearing - and how it could be the night of the jedi academy destruction while he is dressed up as Kylo Ren (I agree with you he would not have been dressed like that then). I didn't want to double post - but linked to it in case anyone was interested. But it's just a theory - it could be a future event too! these visions are trixie!!!

Interesting thoughts about the night and what could have gone down!
It's interesting to ponder - we shall see what they end up going with in IX - the detail here is going to have major impact on the story!
I'm gonna recap for my own clarity lol.. When it all went down that night:
Kylo/Ben was there,
Luke was buried under rubble and unconscious (likely thought dead),
the fellow padawans were there - these padawans either died or left with Kylo/Ben.
We now also know the KOR were there.
[Are the KOR also the padawans who left with Kylo/Ben? we don't know..]

You know who else was there that night? R2D2! and... he may shed light on what actually happened in IX - where the audience probably wouldn't take Kylo/Ben's word for it - as really he is currently the bad guy.. I look forward to being able to talk about him as a former bad guy! sunny

I hope you don't mind- I'll pick out a few of your comments to reply to Chris24601.
@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
What might actually be MORE interesting than those handful of students becoming the Knights of Ren is if instead they just went back to their old lives... completely disillusioned with becoming Jedi after what went down. Ben drifted and was recruited by Snoke, but the others are still out there and, if Rey were to run across one, might provide a very different picture of what went down than we’ve seen. Hearing the story not from Kylo, but a third party with no agenda would go a LONG way towards humanizing and justifying Ben’s actions after the Temple.
@Chris24601
I lean toward this too!! I think Snoke would have been wanting to isolate Kylo/Ben - to further his grip on him, and isolating him from old friends or allies he could care about would be part of this. But then again, maybe Snoke would use that history as a weapon against Kylo/Ben - so it could have been handy having them around. There is no limit to Snoke's deviousness ha!
We could have a combination of options - some KOR are former padawans, some are not. Some of the former padawans are KOR and some are not. Then there are various options for hearing from others involved that night..

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
Another detail relevant to the prospect that it was NOT a deliberate slaughter and also suggests that Ben’s side did NOT start the fight, is that Luke, despite being incapacitated and helpless, was left alive. If Ben and his allies started the fight intent on slaughtering all those still loyal to Luke... why would they have left Luke alive after killing all the rest of the students?
@Chris24601
They thought he was dead? Luke assumed that was why Kylo/Ben didn't go after him and finish him off in TLJ.

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
Side-bar: do we know how old Ben was when he became Luke’s student? There’s a huge difference between being sent to Luke as a teenager than if he were shipped off at 9 years old (to mirror young Anakin). Imagine being nine and sent away from your parents because they were SCARED of you? (He could sense their feelings and while it may have been they were afraid for him rather than of him, good luck explaining that to a nine year old).
@Chris24601
I think Bloodlines may answer this about Ben's age. Anyone who has read it able to share?
My understanding is that Ben was sent to be with Luke and there was a time where Luke and Ben travelled the galaxy together, before Luke made the decision to re-start the Jedi order. So I'm thinking Ben was not dropped off at the Jedi academy to start living with uncle Luke. It was earlier than that.. I am thinking Kylo/Ben was a teenager when he went to Luke.

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
Anyway, I do rather hope the Knights of Ren turn out to NOT be Luke’s former students because that means yet another group of people Ben trusts would ultimately end up betraying him (which is why he’d have to kill them to save Rey if the vision were of the future). It may not be as overt as getting sold off to a junk dealer for drinking money (and good grief... how did I miss that until now... Rey’s parents sold her off to a man who dealt in garbage because her parents thought of Rey as garbage), but Ben’s been betrayed in one way or another by everyone in his life and it’d be nice to know that there might actually be someone out there other than Rey who might actually give half-a-damn about Ben Solo (who may not even know he became Kylo Ren) once Leia inevitably passes.
@Chris24601
I like this!!! If we get a combo of KOR from various origins this could still create this scenario.
I think chewie would care about Ben too!
And maybe C3PO and R2D2?! and Lando.. so we have a few characters who could help him in IX to turn his life around
Come on Ben - we are cheering for you to become one of the good guys again!!!
@SanghaRen wrote:@Chris24601

I thought Ben’s lightsaber in the Jedi Temple scene is not Anakin’s. The hilt is apparently different. I am no expert. Was it ever confirmed it’s Anakin’s? Why would he not have it with him at the time of TFA then?

Who’s to say the story does not go in IX with the KoR going against Ben and at the end decide to also ditch the FO ways and join him in a new type of Jedi Order without the stupid rules? The KoR could consist of people who are conflicted and others who are gone to the dark side making some of them side with him and others against him. So many possibilities. I’d love a final battle scene FO versus Resistance ending with everyone dropping their weapons except for Hux still screaming like a fanatic to finish it. I vote for Finn to slap him in the face then.
@SanghaRen

yeah I think somewhere on this forum, someone shared a screen shot of it and it's not Anakin's lightsaber.

Yeah so many options.. and here's another good one! This is why I am so interested in the KOR - full of possibilities!
Given the main narrative of the Jedi order - if the other padawans had created a new jedi order without the stupid rules (love that description!)
- I guess this would be like whatever Rey is going to be doing moving forward?
I don't have time to go hunting now as I've gotta run (oopsie I've gotten lost in SW!) but I thought Kylo and the KOR hunted down any force users or jedi - this may be one of those early tidbits we heard that didn't actually get put into canon. Is it possible a jedi group somewhere could exist at this point? I wonder... I guess anything is possible!

Gotta run - byee!!





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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 9:29 pm

Ben's lightsaber in the temple flashback is not Anakin's. It's the unmodified, not-yet-blackened hilt of his crossguard saber.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Kessel on Sat 03 Nov 2018, 10:47 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Ben's lightsaber in the temple flashback is not Anakin's. It's the unmodified, not-yet-blackened hilt of his crossguard saber.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes, it’s pretty obvious when you really look at it. Was it confirmed? I was looking for an official confirmation of this as I could have sworn there was one...

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