Predictions for Episode 9

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 12:41 am

I didn't think it was Anakin's either, it would have been one he constructed himself as all Jedi did.
Ben's age when he was sent to Luke is a mystery.....Bloodline made out he was in his 20s but in TLJ flashback scene he only looked about fifteen or sixteen.
I wonder if Ben sensed Luke was still alive under the rubble in the aftermath of the battle?
And for crying out loud.....if Luke noticed 'darkness' in Ben why didn't he just talk to him about it instead of creeping into his bedroom at the dead of night like a weirdo, with a light sabre? No wonder Ben Solo is damaged!
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 1:00 am

@Kessel wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Ben's lightsaber in the temple flashback is not Anakin's. It's the unmodified, not-yet-blackened hilt of his crossguard saber.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes, it’s pretty obvious when you really look at it. Was it confirmed? I was looking for an official confirmation of this as I could have sworn there was one...
@Kessel

I don't recall seeing anything from Pablo; I think it's just what eagle-eyed viewers have put together from high-quality stills of the lightsaber hilt in that flashback scene compared to the Kylo Ren saber.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Kessel on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 1:25 am

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kessel wrote:
@ISeeAnIsland wrote:Ben's lightsaber in the temple flashback is not Anakin's. It's the unmodified, not-yet-blackened hilt of his crossguard saber.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes, it’s pretty obvious when you really look at it. Was it confirmed? I was looking for an official confirmation of this as I could have sworn there was one...
@Kessel

I don't recall seeing anything from Pablo; I think it's just what eagle-eyed viewers have put together from high-quality stills of the lightsaber hilt in that flashback scene compared to the Kylo Ren saber.
@ISeeAnIsland

Yes, you’re right, that’s why I can’t find anything official. For some reason, I thought maybe there had been a confirmation after people noticed the saber’s hilt in the flashback. I guess it’s not really necessary though since it’s clearly the same saber.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 1:30 am

I noticed in the Force vision scene he has several lightsabres. Interesting....
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Chris24601 on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 8:30 pm

@DeeBee
I’m not sure “They thought he was dead” works all that well with Force Sensitivities. We saw Leia sense Han’s death from across the galaxy. Luke was Ben’s master for years (i.e. a strong connection). Rey sensed Luke’s death from the other side of the galaxy despite having only trained with him for a few days. After the massacre Luke would have been, what, a hundred yards away at most when the fighting stopped?

Luke may have told himself he was only spared because Ben thought he was dead, but that seems more like a rationalization that let him put all the blame on Ben. It was the easy answer; Ben had gone dark, attacked him, slaughtered most of his students and taken the rest away with him.

The hard answer was, in a moment of weakness, Luke ignited his lightsaber over his sleeping nephew and pondered killing him. Ben awoke and blew the entire room up in a panic. Then his students got into a fight about whether Ben had attacked Luke out of malice and Ben and the students who believed Ben defended themselves. Likely there were deaths on both sides and Ben and the other survivors got the heck out of there because that is some scar-you-for-life grade trauma to be attacked by people you thought were friends and comrades and have to kill them in self defense.

And they only thought that way because that was what Luke had trained them to think.

****

As to Ben’s lightsaber... if the one from the TLJ flashback is indeed the core of his unstable current saber then my fervent hope for IX is that, at a pivotal moment, Ben will ignite his saber and it will blaze WHITE signifying both his and it’s redemption. Plus, a flaming white broadsword would be geektastically cool.

Something like that would actually be worth introducing someone like Asohka into the film in order to explain the significance of the color change so general audiences would understand what it meant when the saber turned white.

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Sun 04 Nov 2018, 9:02 pm

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
I’m not sure “They thought he was dead” works all that well with Force Sensitivities. We saw Leia sense Han’s death from across the galaxy. Luke was Ben’s master for years (i.e. a strong connection). Rey sensed Luke’s death from the other side of the galaxy despite having only trained with him for a few days. After the massacre Luke would have been, what, a hundred yards away at most when the fighting stopped?

Luke may have told himself he was only spared because Ben thought he was dead, but that seems more like a rationalization that let him put all the blame on Ben. It was the easy answer; Ben had gone dark, attacked him, slaughtered most of his students and taken the rest away with him.

The hard answer was, in a moment of weakness, Luke ignited his lightsaber over his sleeping nephew and pondered killing him. Ben awoke and blew the entire room up in a panic. Then his students got into a fight about whether Ben had attacked Luke out of malice and Ben and the students who believed Ben defended themselves. Likely there were deaths on both sides and Ben and the other survivors got the heck out of there because that is some scar-you-for-life grade trauma to be attacked by people you thought were friends and comrades and have to kill them in self defense.

And they only thought that way because that was what Luke had trained them to think.

****

As to Ben’s lightsaber... if the one from the TLJ flashback is indeed the core of his unstable current saber then my fervent hope for IX is that, at a pivotal moment, Ben will ignite his saber and it will blaze WHITE signifying both his and it’s redemption. Plus, a flaming white broadsword would be geektastically cool.

Something like that would actually be worth introducing someone like Asohka into the film in order to explain the significance of the color change so general audiences would understand what it meant when the saber turned white.
@Chris24601

It might be white/bluish. Smile I agree with Corseque on tumblr, when she posted a meta that the Millenium Falcon, and its dealing with the maw in Solo is a parallel for Ben, and his journey. (As an aside, I actually believe THIS is why the movie had to have a theatrical release, [what she typed in her meta] along with the concept of Han dying for Ben's sins, which was introduced with the killing of Beckett by Han - that it was that important to LF because of the ST, and only a movie could emphasize it instead of a book or comic, etc).

http://corseque.tumblr.com/post/174236080377

A lot of interesting items at the link, but what I am highlighting here, but I think you are onto something, so the saber may ignite blue/white...or maybe begin blue, and settle on white, or vice versa ??? (I am new to SW because of ST, so I might be off about the color possibilities with the saber).

Item of note in her blog/meta

"just at the last minute, the Falcon is infused with a touch of BLUE strength to escape the inexorable pull of RED nothingness, and the Falcon, which was beat down, degraded and RED, becomes a thrilling streak of BLUE LIGHT, and just barely makes it back on the right path, fulfilling its destiny as a vessel for good"

Her tags - #Star Wars #Solo: A Star Wars Story #Solo spoilers #star wars spoilers #Han Solo #Ben Solo #and now... I'm going on a very long trip lmao #I think I love it so much more that the Falcon became beat up during this metaphorical Kessel Run and not just because of Han's neglect #it makes more sense this way given the new details we know about Han and Ben #a dark empire-like force HUNTS ben/falcon down onto a wrong path where he becomes RED #but at the last minute he becomes a streak of blue light #my heart is pounding
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by DeeBee on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 2:38 am

@Chris24601 wrote:@DeeBee
I’m not sure “They thought he was dead” works all that well with Force Sensitivities. We saw Leia sense Han’s death from across the galaxy. Luke was Ben’s master for years (i.e. a strong connection). Rey sensed Luke’s death from the other side of the galaxy despite having only trained with him for a few days. After the massacre Luke would have been, what, a hundred yards away at most when the fighting stopped?

Luke may have told himself he was only spared because Ben thought he was dead, but that seems more like a rationalization that let him put all the blame on Ben. It was the easy answer; Ben had gone dark, attacked him, slaughtered most of his students and taken the rest away with him.

The hard answer was, in a moment of weakness, Luke ignited his lightsaber over his sleeping nephew and pondered killing him. Ben awoke and blew the entire room up in a panic. Then his students got into a fight about whether Ben had attacked Luke out of malice and Ben and the students who believed Ben defended themselves. Likely there were deaths on both sides and Ben and the other survivors got the heck out of there because that is some scar-you-for-life grade trauma to be attacked by people you thought were friends and comrades and have to kill them in self defense.

And they only thought that way because that was what Luke had trained them to think.

****

As to Ben’s lightsaber... if the one from the TLJ flashback is indeed the core of his unstable current saber then my fervent hope for IX is that, at a pivotal moment, Ben will ignite his saber and it will blaze WHITE signifying both his and it’s redemption. Plus, a flaming white broadsword would be geektastically cool.

Something like that would actually be worth introducing someone like Asohka into the film in order to explain the significance of the color change so general audiences would understand what it meant when the saber turned white.
@Chris24601

Re Luke thinking Ben thought he was dead - yeah all sounds plausible to me! maybe Luke is just kidding himself.
I think there is grey here with these special connections force users have.. so it could go either way. I think SW uses these connections in a flexible way - lol whatever is needed for the plot.
E.g. If Ben and Luke had a connection that was not influenced by anything (or didn't vary in how it worked) - Ben would have noticed Luke was a projection and not really on Crait. Ben would have noticed Leia was on Crait too (we don't know if he noticed but there was no indication he did). It's flexible so I'm open to anything here.

re the light saber - agree! I'd like to see his light saber (or maybe I should say his Kyber crystal) healed too! It would be really wonderful!
Re the colour -I'm thinking we only have one instance in canon of a kyber crystal that has been bled (the process of a dark sider changing the crystal to the red blade) being healed- Ahsoka healed 2 kyber crystals and they both ended up changing from red to white.  Has anyone else healed a bled kyber crystal in SW canon?
Ahsoka in a movie? wow that would be pretty awesome!!

edited to add: In Absolutely everything yu need to know about star wars book (canon) it says
"Ahsoka uses the light side of the force, but she isn't a Jedi. The white colour of her light sabers show she is no longer aligned with the jedi order."
it also says:
"Ahsoka's lightsabers use an inquisitor's kyber crystals. They change from red to white via the force."
this thread in TLJ section had lots of discussion about Kylo's lightsaber if you're interested - link

Hey does anyone own the lightsabers book Pablo Hidalgo wrote not that long ago? I'd love to hear what this book has to say about healing kyber crystals!


Last edited by DeeBee on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 3:29 am; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : added comment)
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by LadyGaufrette on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 6:00 am

I think it could be a great emotional scene to have Ben turn his saber from red to white, with good music and maybe some flashbacks.
And the concept of bleeding a lightsaber should really be introduced in a movie, not stay an information only fans know about. However, I don't know how they could introduce it. I don't see Ahsoka appearing in IX (her fate must stay hidden for her adventures in the Ezra's search), so maybe Ben ask how to find peace of mind after he choose a redemption path and a Force ghost suggests a healing meditation, explaining both the bleeding and the purification of a crystal, one stone, two birds. But I fear it will be too much exposition for the movie.

For your question @DeeBee , Ahsoka is the only one who healed a bled kyber crystal in SW canon. (Because she's awesome Cool .)
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Mon 05 Nov 2018, 7:15 am

@LadyGaufrette wrote:I think it could be a great emotional scene to have Ben turn his saber from red to white, with good music and maybe some flashbacks.
And the concept of bleeding a lightsaber should really be introduced in a movie, not stay an information only fans know about. However, I don't know how they could introduce it. I don't see Ahsoka appearing in IX (her fate must stay hidden for her adventures in the Ezra's search), so maybe Ben ask how to find peace of mind after he choose a redemption path and a Force ghost suggests a healing meditation, explaining both the bleeding and the purification of a crystal, one stone, two birds. But I fear it will be too much exposition for the movie.

For your question @DeeBee , Ahsoka is the only one who healed a bled kyber crystal in SW canon. (Because she's awesome Cool .)
@LadyGaufrette

Could someone send me the link to the canonical material about the healing of the sword of Ahsoka ?
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by LadyGaufrette on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 4:57 am

@giaciak2

You mean information on a database ?

I use the wookiepedia because they reference each media where a choosen subject appears.
The healing is addressed on the 'bleeding' page and in a paragraphe on the 'kyber crystal'.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Bleeding
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kyber_crystal
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 5:00 am

LadyGaufrette Thank you very much ! Love
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by PalmettoBlue on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 3:34 pm

@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by MrsWindu on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 4:31 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

I remembered that JJ quote I believe it was in the 3D TFA commentary  :
Putting a new spin on Leia's reaction to Han's death, Abrams says that even though Kylo sees killing Han as the final step on his journey to the dark side, "the instant that he's done it, he regrets it" — and that this regret is what his mother feels across the galaxy.

(Putting a weird Oedipal spin on all this is Abrams' revelation that Jon Kasdan, the son of TFA co-writer Lawrence Kasdan, helped write this scene, and that he punched up the uncertainty that Kylo felt about killing Han.)
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 5:11 pm

@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

Yeah I never understood how Kylo didn't sense Han before he went on the bridge. Like okayy sure...
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by motherofpearl1 on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 11:05 pm

I always find it sad that Leia told Luke her son was gone.....yet earlier on he'd had the chance to kill her and couldn't do it.
I wonder if his parents had any inkling of what really went down the night their boy 'turned'?
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Tue 06 Nov 2018, 11:36 pm

@MrsWindu wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

I remembered that JJ quote I believe it was in the 3D TFA commentary  :
Putting a new spin on Leia's reaction to Han's death, Abrams says that even though Kylo sees killing Han as the final step on his journey to the dark side, "the instant that he's done it, he regrets it" — and that this regret is what his mother feels across the galaxy.

(Putting a weird Oedipal spin on all this is Abrams' revelation that Jon Kasdan, the son of TFA co-writer Lawrence Kasdan, helped write this scene, and that he punched up the uncertainty that Kylo felt about killing Han.)
@MrsWindu

IIRC they’d originally planned on showing Leia reacting to the destruction of Hosnian Prime a la Obi Wan in the original movie a la “it was as if a million voices cried out and then were silenced.” But keeping her introduction to Han’s PoV changed that and it’s instead this moment showing she can feel Ben through the Force and vice versa.

And yes, Jon Kasdan’s involvement in writing the Bridge Scene is why I’ve thought sacrifice and redemption is the most likely outcome for that storyline because otherwise it’s just a really f**ked up thing for a parent and child to do together in a venue with that much scrutiny. It’s also why I assume as with the contingent who hate Solo and who’ve decided that LK is a horrible writer (which uh, that does mean you also have to give up TFA and the OT ad your faves because he wrote those too), when IX comes out and it plays out how I expect, there will be a lot of screaming from the same quarters about how they ruined the ST.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:44 am

@rey09 wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

Yeah I never understood how Kylo didn't sense Han before he went on the bridge. Like okayy sure...
@rey09

I always thought he did sense Han. Didn't he mutter "Han Solo" at some point? Also, there was that moment of hesitation as he was sort of "sniffing the air"....feeling the force, before he turned and walked on the bridge. He was WALKING AWAY FROM HAN before Han called him back. I always think back to that. That he was walking away.


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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:46 am

@snufkin wrote:
And yes, Jon Kasdan’s involvement in writing the Bridge Scene is why I’ve thought sacrifice and redemption is the most likely outcome for that storyline because otherwise it’s just a really f**ked up thing for a parent and child to do together in a venue with that much scrutiny. It’s also why I assume as with the contingent who hate Solo and who’ve decided that LK is a horrible writer (which uh, that does mean you also have to give up TFA and the OT ad your faves because he wrote those too), when IX comes out and it plays out how I expect, there will be a lot of screaming from the same quarters about how they ruined the ST.

@snufkin -- I guess they figure LK's taken a downhill slide since the, uhh, glory days. Wink

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 1:01 am

@Dar-ren19 More like they weren’t aware of his existence until recently because the Gospel of George Lucas and his Disciple Dave Filoni has been the dominant narrative for the past 20-15 years as SW shrunk into a niche interest. And I’ve done a lot of eyerolls over complaints, especially from fans who weren’t alive during the OT days, to fully understand the impact Kasdan had on the film industry as a writer during the peak of his creative output. It’s up there with the complaints about Qira from people who likely haven’t ever seen anything remotely close to film noir. But I fully expect a lot of complaints and s*** talking about him from people who hate IX because it doesn’t pander to them.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 1:09 am

@snufkin pretty much what you wrote up there.... these aren't exactly film buffs anyway. I was too young to see Body Heat at the time it came out, but that was corrected as soon as I got to film school. One of the scripts we analyzed was the Big Chill... the guy ain't a one-trick-pony the way they like to paint him. Sheesh!
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 2:07 am

@Dar-ren19 Me reading comments in earnest about Solo that Kasdan doesn’t get it and Lucasfilm needs to ditch him knowing both his track record as a writer/director and given various interviews his role in the ST and as a consultant to the Story Group responsible for the Interogation Scene (which this forum called 2.5 years ago) and Force Bond



A lot of these people are really going to hate IX and scream about him, JJ, “selling out Rey” etc when it’s been planned all along
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by giaciak2 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 5:36 am

@snufkin wrote:@Dar-ren19 Me reading comments in earnest about Solo that Kasdan doesn’t get it and Lucasfilm needs to ditch him knowing both his track record as a writer/director and given various interviews his role in the ST and as a consultant to the Story Group responsible for the Interogation Scene (which this forum called 2.5 years ago) and Force Bond



A lot of these people are really going to hate IX and scream about him, JJ, “selling out Rey” etc when it’s been planned all along


@Snufkin Why do I love everything you write?

I agree with you, everything was planned for me. In my opinion, they also knew that many people would get angry until the trilogy will be complete.

I can not forget Kylo Ren looking at Rey like that in TFA.

For me, it was planned before Rogue One came out. It's like they've been planning drama for 40 years to make a final turn.

If the sense of Star Wars is HOPE ... I hope ... hopefully ... at least one Skywalker (Solo) must be saved ... and can not be an orphan (I'm thinking about a son of Ben&Rey) without a father, because all the Skywalker-Solo were orphans and without a father ...

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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by californiagirl on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 12:18 pm

I'm not even sure who will end up getting the most blame for IX/the ST. JJ, either for supposedly not having an ending and making it up as they go, or at least having one that doesn't make sense to some, or Rian for being a Bad Selfish Person who got rid of all the mystery boxes, the plot, and TFA, not caring what came before or what would come after? Or KK for some reason? Disney?

If I'm being honest, it's not just the angry old-timers who I don't trust to understand or enjoy IX, but even some of the GA and mainstream press as well. At least a few people will pull the bad writing/character development/abuse/rape/fascism/misogyny/toxic white masculinity angle. Though I think the whole point of Kylo's arc is that he needs to be self-motivated and isn't entitled to anything, and must take it upon himself to an extent to be a better person. And to think that in contrast, there are many Kylo/Reylo fans who think Rey looks too good at Kylo's expense.

Somebody's going to claim that women ruined SW despite the fact the whole ST was written and directed by dudes. Razz
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by snufkin on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 2:39 pm

@giaciak2 I wish Italian was one of my languages (and the ones I speak besides English I'm not very good at), but thank you for your kind words. I would have preferred a story about mothers and daughters or at least mothers because Leia managed to survive unlike every other mother in the franchise. But the clues/hints are there in both the scripts and the interviews, so I've accepted that's the direction they went in. And it's at least a thoughtful examination of the theme around the original father-son dynamic in the OT and I've always like Kasdan as a writer, so that's why I've been fine with this direction. I do hope that they get their act together in the future and do better with showing mothers as part of the stories they tell because it's 40 years overdue.
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Re: Predictions for Episode 9

Post by rey09 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 4:45 pm

@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@rey09 wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

Yeah I never understood how Kylo didn't sense Han before he went on the bridge. Like okayy sure...
@rey09

I always thought he did sense Han. Didn't he mutter "Han Solo" at some point? Also, there was that moment of hesitation as he was sort of "sniffing the air"....feeling the force, before he turned and walked on the bridge. He was WALKING AWAY FROM HAN before Han called him back. I always think back to that. That he was walking away.
@Dar-ren19

That's what I thought too but I remember from the script it said he wasn't aware of Han's presence.
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