Predictions for Episode 9

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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 5:32 pm

@rey09 wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@rey09 wrote:
@PalmettoBlue wrote:@Chris24601 - there was an official source (I'll dig it up if you'd like) that said that Leia didn't sense Han's death, but rather she was feeling what Ben was feeling: guilt, confusion, etc and therefore she knew what he had done.

That said - the Force is weird and does weird things. I think that it can be almost anything for the writers...making Han's line about "The Force doesn't work that way!" even more snicker-worthy.
@PalmettoBlue

Yeah I never understood how Kylo didn't sense Han before he went on the bridge. Like okayy sure...
@rey09

I always thought he did sense Han. Didn't he mutter "Han Solo" at some point? Also, there was that moment of hesitation as he was sort of "sniffing the air"....feeling the force, before he turned and walked on the bridge. He was WALKING AWAY FROM HAN before Han called him back. I always think back to that. That he was walking away.
@Dar-ren19

That's what I thought too but I remember from the script it said he wasn't aware of Han's presence.
@rey09

Did ad-libs (is that the term, when it occurs in acting?) happen in TFA? I believe it was recently revealed that will occur with IX, yet what is seen does seem contrary to what was in the script...maybe this is the reason...and J.J et al decided to keep it? If not...well...a forehead crease reason. lol
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Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 07 Nov 2018, 11:34 pm

@rey09 - I'd forgotten about the script direction and was just going by what I saw on screen.... hmm.

@SW_Heroine_Journey you're right, I wasn't sure.
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Post by LadyGaufrette on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 3:20 pm

One big prediction for IX is a reylo theme, and even if there is a great probability it will be completly original, i just listened to a new arrangement of “Across the Stars” which made me want this for Ben and Rey. Since they are the inverse of Anakin and Padme, I believe it would be a great call-back. Futhermore, at 02:02, the music made me think of Kylo.

"A new arrangement of “Across the Stars” created by John Williams for German violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter, to be released as part of a compilation of Williams’ songs reinterpreted for the musician next year."


https://sleemo.co/post/179969056752/a-new-arrangement-of-across-the-stars-created-by
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Post by Kylo Rey on Sat 10 Nov 2018, 5:40 pm

@LadyGaufrette wrote:One big prediction for IX is a reylo theme, and even if there is a great probability it will be completly original, i just listened to a new arrangement of “Across the Stars” which made me want this for Ben and Rey. Since they are the inverse of Anakin and Padme, I believe it would be a great call-back. Futhermore, at 02:02, the music made me think of Kylo.

"A new arrangement of “Across the Stars” created by John Williams for German violinist Anne-Sophie Mutter, to be released as part of a compilation of Williams’ songs reinterpreted for the musician next year."


https://sleemo.co/post/179969056752/a-new-arrangement-of-across-the-stars-created-by
@LadyGaufrette

There was also a new Han & Leia arrangement orchestrated by John Williams earlier this year, and it’s beautiful:



It’s always been a stunningly beautiful theme, but I realised it’s so sad to listen to after Han’s death and Carrie’s passing. Just listening to that music encapsulates why it would be so tragic to leave Han & Leia’s son unredeemed. If there’s a moment in IX with Kylo and they play that... it would be so emotional, particularly if it’s after he’s redeemed and he finally accepts the pain and coming to terms with his parents.
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Post by snufkin on Mon 12 Nov 2018, 11:51 pm

One thing I'm curious about is how they'll handle Snoke's death and the fallout of both that and Kylo lying to Hux/blaming Rey to cover his a**. A lot of us thought of the obvious soap opera angle would be Rey is public enemy #1 thanks to the lie and we get bounty hunter face service/Ben has to face the fallout of both lying and realizing at the end of Crait that she had nothing to do with Luke's appearance. But counterpoint sparked by the Poe Dameron comic (obvious disclaimer the comics aren't spoilers/critical to the films) that the First Order doesn't know Snoke is dead in the aftermath of Crait. Either way, it's likely Hux knows that Kylo lied and will use that as a pretext to turn the screw/undermine him as Supreme Leader.  But for propaganda purposes, it'd make the First Order look like chumps admitting that Rey managed to walk into their fortress, took out their super powerful Force user leader, killed his guards, knocked out his also super powerful Force user enforcer (for a 2nd time), and then steals his spaceship. So my guess is that their official story will be that he was killed by Holdo's kamikaze maneuver as face-saving and meanwhile the Resistance will keep on assuming that Rey was working in conjunction with Luke in coming to their rescue. It's still way too early (and without any Bothan Spys) to assume anything in the story beyond the correct guesses we all made here for TLJ. But if JJ doesn't take advantage of that obvious set-up Rian pitched to him (which $5 says Trevorrow planned on scrapping because he thought he needed to "fix" what Rian wrote), that's a waste on the level of George Lucas' biggest mistakes with the OT.
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Post by lauvamp on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:18 pm

My prediction / hope is: it doesn't have sense to me to introduce a conflicted character like Kylo Ren without any resolution, I don't believe it has to be Kylo's dead like his grandfather to get a redemption (again). And I don't think we won't see any good side from him again, after what we saw towards his mother or Rey (before Crait).
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Post by Teo oswald on Tue 13 Nov 2018, 4:29 pm

If they put pieces of Leia scenes taken from previous films and we'll see it in the next episode, how many possibilities
  do we have to see Leia with Ben and with Rey all together?
would it make sense to put a scene with them in episode VIII?
It would be harmful if they let Leia die in Episode IX
but if she lives there must be a scene with her, Ben and Rey.
I understood that there will be an actress who replaces Carry, but at the same time there will be scenes taken from the other films. How will they do?
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Post by AhsokaTano on Wed 14 Nov 2018, 2:03 pm

In case some of you don’t read the Vader comics am posting this here as well as Vader comics thread on this forum ( thanks @Starliteprism for posting original video regarding the Vader comics ):

Omg I saw this all over Reddit ( gonna post the links below ). Did suspect this from the way the Vader series has been leading up to this last few issues . I seriously think now they may do something with this in episode Ix because it’s coming up again and again ( Rebels , Vader comics , aftermath books)and we know from aftermath novels that Jakku has one of these portals .
Darth Vader issue 23 JUST WOW
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/9x2t3f/darth_vader_issue_23_just_wow/?st=JOHIUC2Y&sh=a01ed461

A World Between Worlds "door"or some power akin to it was featured in today's issue of Darth Vader #23 on Mustafar [SPOILERS]
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsrebels/comments/9x2cg2/a_world_between_worlds_dooror_some_power_akin_to/?st=JOHIV7AK&sh=f0b23938

What Vader #23 means for Star Wars...
https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarscomics/comments/9x271o/what_vader_23_means_for_star_wars/?st=JOHIVJSK&sh=4dea6774

Just adding a postscript to this because something that’s just occurred to me now - what if Han’s Dice , vader’s Helmet are the key to someone(Ben or Rey or both ) possibly connecting with Vader or Han through one of the portals ? It seems in this Vader comic ( I need to read it myself to be sure ) that somehow Lord Momin is able to connect with his past self(and become one with his past self ) via the helmet . What if it’s the same with Han’ s Dice and Vader ‘s helmet . What’s the saying “you are what you carry with you “. Just a thought . Weird I know but no more weird than what’s unravelling before us and we know in Star Wars like in Lord of the rings - objects seem to carry some of the essence of their owners ( we saw this in the Lando comics too). What if it’s not just dark side objects that have potential for this but all objects . We saw this hinted too in The Force Awakens with the legacy lightsaber and the visions that Rey got with it from the past and maybe future .
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:10 am

Hi everyone,

I carefully read your comments and the full Rumi poetry you have indicated here (http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t842p75-discussions-tweets-instagram#202605). I have previously written my thoughts and my observations on Gnosticism and my theory that relates this to Star Wars.

My English is very bad and I think nothing will be understood. But yesterday I saw Rumi's poetry and I'm a bit depressed. So, even if nobody understands what I write, I still need to free my thoughts and share them with someone. I hope you will forgive me for what I write.

If someone wants to deepen these issues and possibly destroy them to find simpler theories I will be happy. These considerations have profoundly depressed me.

I went to read Rumi's thoughts and other poems with their meaning.

I had already bored you with my theories about George Lucas's gnostic vision.

According to my hypothesis, applying a small part of the Gnostic theory to Reylo. My theory would be this: Rey and Ben are two emanations (Aeons) of the unique Divine spark - divided into masculine (Soter) and feminine (Sophia).
The Cosmic Energy would therefore have created the Perfect Aeon first and this would then create the male aeon that equates to power and the female aeon that corresponds to love, compassion and truth. (If you want I can terrify you with more deatil from Gnostic Christian version but please remember after Plato onwards there is a complementary theory in all religions and philosophies.)

In the gnostic Christian myth, the last born aeon, Sophia (female counterpart of Soter-Power), generates unwittingly (and without his masculine complement) the Demiurge which corresponds to absolute evil. The Demiurge generates matter and creation among which the man who is pervaded by evil, but man still carries within himself the divine spark of Sophia which is love. Sophia notices what she has done and throws herself into the material world to help the whole creation return to divine perfection (which contains both good and evil in perfect balance). The male eon, Soter, also throws himself on earth to help Sophia, who incarnating herself in the Gnostic Christian vision becomes Mary Maddalena. In Christian Gnosis, Soter is incarnated in Jesus himself. Soter's task is to teach men the way back to the Pleroma, precisely through Gnosis. Without going into dangerous and narrow paths, for those who love the subject Sophia and Soter incarnated in human form, they generate a child ... and here come to the Holy Grail theory ...)

To explain it in Star War terms, if you have seen Clone Wars, refer to the Father, Mortis's son and daughter. By chance, there are three of them like the Gnostic vision. The two sons are male and female like the Aeons. The equilibrium of the Force fails when the male child drank at the source of power (male Aeon tied to power) and the daughter (who loved him as a member of the creative force and love) throws herself into the well of knowledge hoping to save him. Instead the two take the shape of the light side and the dark side of the Force fighting for eternity.

Wanting to summarize the Gnostic (Christian) principle, it was Sophia who generated matter and life. But since she created it without his male counterpart, the Demiurge-villain that represents evil was born. Now, since Sophia is love and knowledge, every living being has a spark of this divine love. So the principle of Gnosis is that man, through knowledge, rediscovers the divine which is him.

Wanting to apply this my thoughts to Star Wars. The perfect aeon in Star Wars was the father. Who dies on Clone Wars, in front of Anakin. The father wanted Anakin to take his place in controlling his two sons. When Anakin does not accept his offer, the father decides to kill the male-child. Unfortunately, the son corrupts Ahsoka and during a complex dynamics the daughter is killed by mistake by her brother. The son/brother runs away in despair. Later the son will try Anakin to the dark side showing his future.

My theory is that Anakin is a new emanation of the Perfect Aeons, he should bring the balance but unable to accept the fate of Padme, yields to the dark side.

In this way, the one who was destined to bring equilibrium instead leads to a lack of balance in the Force towards the dark side.

But the Force that had foreseen the fall of Vader, creates a solution.

The two sons of Anakin are therefore the successors of the Father of Mortis to bring the balance. In this case it’s Obi Wan who makes a mistake. Convince Luke (descendant of the chosen new hour chosen) that can there is peace (peace as balance) if it’s the clear side to dominate on the dark side. This is the basic error of the Jedi and Sith. To believe that if there were only one side to prevail there would be balance.

Anakin, being also pervaded by the spark of light (love, compassion) saves Luke and destroys all Sith and himself, bringing for a moment an apparent balance.

However, since good and evil are complementary and one can not exist without the other, other evil characters threaten the balance of the Force (among them the Demiurge). To put it in Gnostic terms - Star Wars, an imbalance of Sophia and therefore of the light side of the Force, again generates the evil attached to material possession.

If I were to draw inspiration from Gnosis, I would say that when Vader dies, Luke (along with Leia) should take his place - of Father of Mortis - and rule the light side and dark side of the Force. In balance. But the Jedi, not understanding that the balance can only be achieved by dominating both sides of the Force, fall into error.

In all this there must be a Demiurge. An evil being bound only to power, desire and material craving. It could be Snoke but also a primitive evil being who continues to take new forms.

So the Demiurge / Snoke that embodies absolute evil. In Kabbalistic theories but also in Sufi, Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist (and many other philosophies as in Shaman Yoga) can be associated with a very human element: the Ego.

The Ego is the evil of material being, the material desire for power, possession, wealth, physical love, longing. The ego is the inverse of the union. I don't want to bore you more with the cabalistic theories ... also because my English is dramatically elementary while these theories are complex.

So, and I return to the cabal, to achieve union with the divine, man must first discover the divine spark within himself and then in other men. In this way, through love, compassion and union with all living beings, one can return to being the Adam, that is, the first man, direct emanation of the cosmic Force.

To put it simply. All men should help other men / living beings to give themselves to others. Only through the communion of love, knowledge and renunciation of the personal ego is the enlightenment that corresponds to peace and eternal love.

I saw in another Threed that the poetry of Rumi was published.

Rumi is a mystical Sufi, but not only, he is also an enlightened man who marries the theory (shared with many cultures, Hindus, Buddhists but also guides and Christians, and finally with kabbalistic theory. Although all these religions start from different principles, there they are theories, defined esoteric, for which man is an emanation of God himself - who is love).

So Rumi tells how love is that spark that unites man with the spirit of God who is love itself.

Rumi's thought (which unites him with other illuminated of other religions) is that man being limited needs a simplification of this divine love for which often carnal love and romantic love are expressed in his poems.
But every time it starts from an earthly love that then converges in the superior love of God. In essence if God is love, the road to find God is, itself, paved with love, every form of love.

Therefore, the emanation of God in the material world of man can be understood in the different material emanations, so compassion, friendship, romantic love, physical love, respect and every form of love.

If I combine both theories with continuous evidence from the authors of Star Wars. According to this evidence: Rey and Ben try much more than romantic love, so I think about this hypothesis.

Rey and Ben are an emanation of the Force that seeks its balance. Balance that can only be found if the father (Anakin) the son (Ben) and the daughter (Rey), return to being one with the Force bringing the balance.

Finally, there is the Alchemical version that has influenced many thinkers of all ages, for which the mystical marriages are made by two opposites Light and Shadow, masculine and feminine, soul and body that come together to return to the perfection of creation.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Il_57010


All is very well if it were not for this hypothesis, the romantic love between Ben and Rey would end in a greater love, in Gnostic terms they return to the Pleroma.

And not having yet arrived at divine enlightenment ... I must tell you that I would be disappointed. I would like the concept to be much more mundane and material.

For example, that Anakin / Father or the spirits of the Force move Rey and Ben of this spiritual robe freeing both from the Force and leaving them to live their life together as two "Banals man and woman in love”.


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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:31 am

@giaciak2 wrote:Hi everyone,

I carefully read your comments and the full Rumi poetry you have indicated here (http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t842p75-discussions-tweets-instagram#202605). I have previously written my thoughts and my observations on Gnosticism and my theory that relates this to Star Wars.

My English is very bad and I think nothing will be understood. But yesterday I saw Rumi's poetry and I'm a bit depressed. So, even if nobody understands what I write, I still need to free my thoughts and share them with someone. I hope you will forgive me for what I write.

If someone wants to deepen these issues and possibly destroy them to find simpler theories I will be happy. These considerations have profoundly depressed me.

I went to read Rumi's thoughts and other poems with their meaning.

I had already bored you with my theories about George Lucas's gnostic vision.

According to my hypothesis, applying a small part of the Gnostic theory to Reylo. My theory would be this: Rey and Ben are two emanations (Aeons) of the unique Divine spark - divided into masculine (Soter) and feminine (Sophia).
The Cosmic Energy would therefore have created the Perfect Aeon first and this would then create the male aeon that equates to power and the female aeon that corresponds to love, compassion and truth. (If you want I can terrify you with more deatil from Gnostic Christian version but please remember after Plato onwards there is a complementary theory in all religions and philosophies.)

In the gnostic Christian myth, the last born aeon, Sophia (female counterpart of Soter-Power), generates unwittingly (and without his masculine complement) the Demiurge which corresponds to absolute evil. The Demiurge generates matter and creation among which the man who is pervaded by evil, but man still carries within himself the divine spark of Sophia which is love. Sophia notices what she has done and throws herself into the material world to help the whole creation return to divine perfection (which contains both good and evil in perfect balance). The male eon, Soter, also throws himself on earth to help Sophia, who incarnating herself in the Gnostic Christian vision becomes Mary Maddalena. In Christian Gnosis, Soter is incarnated in Jesus himself. Soter's task is to teach men the way back to the Pleroma, precisely through Gnosis. Without going into dangerous and narrow paths, for those who love the subject Sophia and Soter incarnated in human form, they generate a child ... and here come to the Holy Grail theory ...)

To explain it in Star War terms, if you have seen Clone Wars, refer to the Father, Mortis's son and daughter. By chance, there are three of them like the Gnostic vision. The two sons are male and female like the Aeons. The equilibrium of the Force fails when the male child drank at the source of power (male Aeon tied to power) and the daughter (who loved him as a member of the creative force and love) throws herself into the well of knowledge hoping to save him. Instead the two take the shape of the light side and the dark side of the Force fighting for eternity.

Wanting to summarize the Gnostic (Christian) principle, it was Sophia who generated matter and life. But since she created it without his male counterpart, the Demiurge-villain that represents evil was born. Now, since Sophia is love and knowledge, every living being has a spark of this divine love. So the principle of Gnosis is that man, through knowledge, rediscovers the divine which is him.

Wanting to apply this my thoughts to Star Wars. The perfect aeon in Star Wars was the father. Who dies on Clone Wars, in front of Anakin. The father wanted Anakin to take his place in controlling his two sons. When Anakin does not accept his offer, the father decides to kill the male-child. Unfortunately, the son corrupts Ahsoka and during a complex dynamics the daughter is killed by mistake by her brother. The son/brother runs away in despair. Later the son will try Anakin to the dark side showing his future.

My theory is that Anakin is a new emanation of the Perfect Aeons, he should bring the balance but unable to accept the fate of Padme, yields to the dark side.

In this way, the one who was destined to bring equilibrium instead leads to a lack of balance in the Force towards the dark side.

But the Force that had foreseen the fall of Vader, creates a solution.

The two sons of Anakin are therefore the successors of the Father of Mortis to bring the balance. In this case it’s Obi Wan who makes a mistake. Convince Luke (descendant of the chosen new hour chosen) that can there is peace (peace as balance) if it’s the clear side to dominate on the dark side. This is the basic error of the Jedi and Sith. To believe that if there were only one side to prevail there would be balance.

Anakin, being also pervaded by the spark of light (love, compassion) saves Luke and destroys all Sith and himself, bringing for a moment an apparent balance.

However, since good and evil are complementary and one can not exist without the other, other evil characters threaten the balance of the Force (among them the Demiurge). To put it in Gnostic terms - Star Wars, an imbalance of Sophia and therefore of the light side of the Force, again generates the evil attached to material possession.

If I were to draw inspiration from Gnosis, I would say that when Vader dies, Luke (along with Leia) should take his place - of Father of Mortis - and rule the light side and dark side of the Force. In balance. But the Jedi, not understanding that the balance can only be achieved by dominating both sides of the Force, fall into error.

In all this there must be a Demiurge. An evil being bound only to power, desire and material craving. It could be Snoke but also a primitive evil being who continues to take new forms.

So the Demiurge / Snoke that embodies absolute evil. In Kabbalistic theories but also in Sufi, Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist (and many other philosophies as in Shaman Yoga) can be associated with a very human element: the Ego.

The Ego is the evil of material being, the material desire for power, possession, wealth, physical love, longing. The ego is the inverse of the union. I don't want to bore you more with the cabalistic theories ... also because my English is dramatically elementary while these theories are complex.

So, and I return to the cabal, to achieve union with the divine, man must first discover the divine spark within himself and then in other men. In this way, through love, compassion and union with all living beings, one can return to being the Adam, that is, the first man, direct emanation of the cosmic Force.

To put it simply. All men should help other men / living beings to give themselves to others. Only through the communion of love, knowledge and renunciation of the personal ego is the enlightenment that corresponds to peace and eternal love.

I saw in another Threed that the poetry of Rumi was published.

Rumi is a mystical Sufi, but not only, he is also an enlightened man who marries the theory (shared with many cultures, Hindus, Buddhists but also guides and Christians, and finally with kabbalistic theory. Although all these religions start from different principles, there they are theories, defined esoteric, for which man is an emanation of God himself - who is love).

So Rumi tells how love is that spark that unites man with the spirit of God who is love itself.

Rumi's thought (which unites him with other illuminated of other religions) is that man being limited needs a simplification of this divine love for which often carnal love and romantic love are expressed in his poems.
But every time it starts from an earthly love that then converges in the superior love of God. In essence if God is love, the road to find God is, itself, paved with love, every form of love.

Therefore, the emanation of God in the material world of man can be understood in the different material emanations, so compassion, friendship, romantic love, physical love, respect and every form of love.

If I combine both theories with continuous evidence from the authors of Star Wars. According to this evidence: Rey and Ben try much more than romantic love, so I think about this hypothesis.

Rey and Ben are an emanation of the Force that seeks its balance. Balance that can only be found if the father (Anakin) the son (Ben) and the daughter (Rey), return to being one with the Force bringing the balance.

Finally, there is the Alchemical version that has influenced many thinkers of all ages, for which the mystical marriages are made by two opposites Light and Shadow, masculine and feminine, soul and body that come together to return to the perfection of creation.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Il_57010


All is very well if it were not for this hypothesis, the romantic love between Ben and Rey would end in a greater love, in Gnostic terms they return to the Pleroma.

And not having yet arrived at divine enlightenment ... I must tell you that I would be disappointed. I would like the concept to be much more mundane and material.

For example, that Anakin / Father or the spirits of the Force move Rey and Ben of this spiritual robe freeing both from the Force and leaving them to live their life together as two "Banals man and woman in love”.


@giaciak2

Your work is superb!  Moreover, I see all of this greatly influencing Lucas, the Story Group, KK, JJ, etc...yet I urge you not to feel a concern because although this is an influence, the way to best relay this is via romantic love.  Even I, an agnostic with romance, and sexually - asexual, believe and trust that greatly! Smile


Last edited by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by giaciak2 on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:44 am


Dearest,@SW_Heroine_Journey, thank you for responding to my appeal but I am still depressed.

Your words comfort me even if they have not destroyed my story.

I fear because even Rogue One was a fantastic film with a bittersweet finale. I don't know if I could endure a bitter-sweet ending even in Reylo dynamic.
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 30 Nov 2018, 9:52 am

@giaciak2 wrote:
Dearest,@SW_Heroine_Journey, thank you for responding to my appeal but I am still depressed.

Your words comfort me even if they have not destroyed my story.

I fear because even Rogue One was a fantastic film with a bittersweet finale. I don't know if I could endure a bitter-sweet ending even in Reylo dynamic.
@giaciak2

I think they originally wanted a happy ending for Rogue One, but the OT prevented that because they did not know how to explain the absence of all those characters. By the heroics shown...there is no way they could be in the background of what was depicted in the OT, but in the foreground. So, the story required it because of those bounds. With the ST....there are no bounds. Very Happy There is freedom! Smile

Please do not be depressed! The only bittersweet finale I see happening is that they both become immortal - a god & goddess, if you will....yet if that happens....they won't be removed divinity from the galaxy, but actively involved in helping the galaxy and being a healing tool for and of the force.
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Post by DeeBee on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 4:03 am

@giaciak2 @SW_Heroine_Journey
- yeah I'm with SW_Heroine_Journey
I'm not afraid. Whatever the ending of IX is, I know it will be done in a way that is satisfying for all the characters we have grown to love. I just can't see the whole saga ending on any other note. If Rey and Ben move into some different realm or something, it's going to feel satisfying how it plays out. Any premise is possible to be satisfying I think.. except maybe either Ben or Rey dying... I'm open to what lucasfilm create and trust they love these characters as much as I do.. they are in good hands.

Okay so on a different topic.. In Takodana Woods I was discussing the character Cobb Vanth - he's in the Aftermath trilogy (but not part of the main plot) and I'd like to make a prediction for IX.
I've been toying with this character being 'the Mandalorian' - not a spoiler as we really don't know who the titular character is at this point..I'm just exploring..

Cobb Vanth lived on Tatooine. He liberated himself from slavery, and chose to take on the crime syndicates head on and help others who need his help - This is a quintessential Star Wars hero! In Star Wars, heroes make the choice to fight evil,  be selfless and help others. This exemplifies the light side of the force - a life lived in service of others..
A character like Cobb Vanth could become an inspiration to others who are enslaved and wish to rise up and take back their communities and their lives. At the end of TLJ, we had Luke reviving the hope Jedi represent throughout the galaxy through his actions.
But, the ST is also (IMHO) hinting at the idea that all people need to be heroic regardless of whether they have the force or not.
Han Solo was Ben Solo's father - and that side of Ben was what helped him to rise up and defeat Snoke (IMHO).
Even if Han wasn't a force user, he was a galactic hero. Powerful force users don't have a monopoly on heroism.
Characters like Cobb Vanth and Han Solo are inspirational because they are not gifted with force powers, and yet they still make choices to make the galaxy better, and still achieve great things. They are heroic with what they have.
So with all this in mind, I can see the resistance characters hearing of what Cobb Vanth got up to - if they visit Tatooine and hear stories... (and who knows maybe Cobb Vanth will be the mandalorian and it will tie in).
Or maybe the resistance even meet him in IX (now an old man I guess).
I have no idea if it is connected - but I am reminded of little Anakin's dreams of returning to Tatooine to free all the slaves. Someone like Cobb Vanth could be a part of that and somehow support Ben Solo to fulfill his grandfather's dream and free the slaves.
This thread is a great space to just dream and have crazy out there ideas!
sunny


Last edited by DeeBee on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 4:05 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)
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Post by giaciak2 on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 9:43 am

Hi @DeeBee I read Aftermath too. I read so many other things and I could get confused about where I read it. There are many heroic characters on Aftermath and I wondered if one of these could be linked to Rey. ( My idea is that Rey is relative of Ezra and Sabine or only of Ezra.)

But the thing that struck me most in the book is what Palpatine had planned on his death? What did you hide in the areas outside the outer edge? On Jakku there is a portal that connects with the outer rim and a museum of Sith artifacts. Jakku himself has a heart of blue Kyber tied to the light side (at least I understood this). On Jakku is the Church of the Temple of Strength. La Church of Force believes in the Force as a unique energy but pursues the Light side. Lor San Tekka is the master of this church. Is it possible that Kylo Ren kills him at the beginning of TFA? I wonder if Snoke had a bigger plan too. Then the children's training intrigued me. These children were special? Did they have the strength? Why does Armitage kill his father?
What do you think about ?
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Post by PalmettoBlue on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 7:48 pm

@giaciak2 I don't know about the answer to the questions of the Church of the Force - but I do have a theory about Hux.

I think Hux killed his father because he hated him. From what I understand Brendol abused Armitage. And then, Brendol was an obstacle in Armitage's plan to be a power in the First Order.
So, he had Phasma kill him.

I really do see it being just that simple. Hux, Sr. was in the way, so Jr. got rid of him.
That may be a boring answer, but that's how I see it. Smile
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Post by Chris24601 on Sat 01 Dec 2018, 8:38 pm

@PalmettoBlue
Honestly, the biggest problem every fandom seems to run into is over complicating things. It’s why some people still hold on to the belief that Rey will be revealed as the child of a previously known character.

Frankly, a lot of the secondary media (books, comics, etc.) feeds this precisely because those prone to overthinking things related to the films are the biggest share of the secondary media’s audience.

The point being, I’ve generally found that Occam’s Razor applies even more to fiction than it does to real life. The simplest explanation for anything is usually the correct one and, far from being boring, generally leads to a more compelling story.

Can you imagine how convoluted and watered down TLJ would have been if Rey had actually been Luke’s daughter? Or Obi-Wan’s granddaughter? All the focus on Rey suddenly gets shifted onto her parentage instead of who Rey is. The fact that she’s NOT the heir of some destined hero, but a girl who chooses to be a hero anyway makes her a stronger and more interesting character.

I would say the same about Hux. Far from being boring, Armitage Hux being a guy willing to murder his own father simply to advance his career marks him as someone extremely dangerous because there’s NOTHING he’s not capable of doing to get himself ever further ahead.

That also provides a wonderful compare/contrast with Kylo who struggled with killing his father to advance himself in Snoke’s eyes and actually following through ripped him to the core. It is contrasted again when Kylo has the opportunity to kill his mother to further cement himself in Snoke’s favor, but he can’t bring himself to do so.

Thus, by his straight forward remorseless ambition being the sole motive for killing his father, Hux presents himself as Kylo’s dark mirror; the kind of man he could have been if he were truly the monster everyone believes him to be.

That’s way more useful and compelling than some boring conspiracy theory.

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Post by DeeBee on Sun 02 Dec 2018, 1:43 am

@giaciak2 wrote:Hi @DeeBee I read Aftermath too. I read so many other things and I could get confused about where I read it. There are many heroic characters on Aftermath and I wondered if one of these could be linked to Rey. ( My idea is that Rey is relative of Ezra and Sabine or only of Ezra.)

But the thing that struck me most in the book is what Palpatine had planned on his death? What did you hide in the areas outside the outer edge? On Jakku there is a portal that connects with the outer rim and a museum of Sith artifacts. Jakku himself has a heart of blue Kyber tied to the light side (at least I understood this). On Jakku is the Church of the Temple of Strength. La Church of Force believes in the Force as a unique energy but pursues the Light side. Lor San Tekka is the master of this church. Is it possible that Kylo Ren kills him at the beginning of TFA? I wonder if Snoke had a bigger plan too. Then the children's training intrigued me. These children were special? Did they have the strength? Why does Armitage kill his father?
What do you think about ?
@giaciak2
Very true. there are loads of great heros in Aftermath! I'd be happy to see any of them in IX, or in upcoming content whatever it may be.

Regarding Jakku and the force nexus there - I need to take a look at what aftermath says again about this! I'll have to get back to you. I think there is Aftermath discussion in takodana woods - I'll try and remember to come back to this (feel free to remind me!).

With Armitage Hux killing his father, I think in aftermath Sloane views Brendol as a creep who was only alive because of his knowledge about training children to kill. And it seems Armitage was conceived in a way that the Empire had frowned upon so from his birth Armitage was basically punished for that by his father. But I don't know that this is explicitly stated this way.
Here's a bit from the epilogue of Empire's end:
Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Empire10
Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Afterm11
Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Afterm10
I'm thinking Armitage killed Brendol to take over and gain more power and basically because he hated him for the way his father had abused him.
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Post by BB-Rey on Sun 02 Dec 2018, 10:24 am

@giaciak2 wrote:Hi everyone,

I carefully read your comments and the full Rumi poetry you have indicated here (http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t842p75-discussions-tweets-instagram#202605). I have previously written my thoughts and my observations on Gnosticism and my theory that relates this to Star Wars.

My English is very bad and I think nothing will be understood. But yesterday I saw Rumi's poetry and I'm a bit depressed. So, even if nobody understands what I write, I still need to free my thoughts and share them with someone. I hope you will forgive me for what I write.

If someone wants to deepen these issues and possibly destroy them to find simpler theories I will be happy. These considerations have profoundly depressed me.

I went to read Rumi's thoughts and other poems with their meaning.

I had already bored you with my theories about George Lucas's gnostic vision.

According to my hypothesis, applying a small part of the Gnostic theory to Reylo. My theory would be this: Rey and Ben are two emanations (Aeons) of the unique Divine spark - divided into masculine (Soter) and feminine (Sophia).
The Cosmic Energy would therefore have created the Perfect Aeon first and this would then create the male aeon that equates to power and the female aeon that corresponds to love, compassion and truth. (If you want I can terrify you with more deatil from Gnostic Christian version but please remember after Plato onwards there is a complementary theory in all religions and philosophies.)

In the gnostic Christian myth, the last born aeon, Sophia (female counterpart of Soter-Power), generates unwittingly (and without his masculine complement) the Demiurge which corresponds to absolute evil. The Demiurge generates matter and creation among which the man who is pervaded by evil, but man still carries within himself the divine spark of Sophia which is love. Sophia notices what she has done and throws herself into the material world to help the whole creation return to divine perfection (which contains both good and evil in perfect balance). The male eon, Soter, also throws himself on earth to help Sophia, who incarnating herself in the Gnostic Christian vision becomes Mary Maddalena. In Christian Gnosis, Soter is incarnated in Jesus himself. Soter's task is to teach men the way back to the Pleroma, precisely through Gnosis. Without going into dangerous and narrow paths, for those who love the subject Sophia and Soter incarnated in human form, they generate a child ... and here come to the Holy Grail theory ...)

To explain it in Star War terms, if you have seen Clone Wars, refer to the Father, Mortis's son and daughter. By chance, there are three of them like the Gnostic vision. The two sons are male and female like the Aeons. The equilibrium of the Force fails when the male child drank at the source of power (male Aeon tied to power) and the daughter (who loved him as a member of the creative force and love) throws herself into the well of knowledge hoping to save him. Instead the two take the shape of the light side and the dark side of the Force fighting for eternity.

Wanting to summarize the Gnostic (Christian) principle, it was Sophia who generated matter and life. But since she created it without his male counterpart, the Demiurge-villain that represents evil was born. Now, since Sophia is love and knowledge, every living being has a spark of this divine love. So the principle of Gnosis is that man, through knowledge, rediscovers the divine which is him.

Wanting to apply this my thoughts to Star Wars. The perfect aeon in Star Wars was the father. Who dies on Clone Wars, in front of Anakin. The father wanted Anakin to take his place in controlling his two sons. When Anakin does not accept his offer, the father decides to kill the male-child. Unfortunately, the son corrupts Ahsoka and during a complex dynamics the daughter is killed by mistake by her brother. The son/brother runs away in despair. Later the son will try Anakin to the dark side showing his future.

My theory is that Anakin is a new emanation of the Perfect Aeons, he should bring the balance but unable to accept the fate of Padme, yields to the dark side.

In this way, the one who was destined to bring equilibrium instead leads to a lack of balance in the Force towards the dark side.

But the Force that had foreseen the fall of Vader, creates a solution.

The two sons of Anakin are therefore the successors of the Father of Mortis to bring the balance. In this case it’s Obi Wan who makes a mistake. Convince Luke (descendant of the chosen new hour chosen) that can there is peace (peace as balance) if it’s the clear side to dominate on the dark side. This is the basic error of the Jedi and Sith. To believe that if there were only one side to prevail there would be balance.

Anakin, being also pervaded by the spark of light (love, compassion) saves Luke and destroys all Sith and himself, bringing for a moment an apparent balance.

However, since good and evil are complementary and one can not exist without the other, other evil characters threaten the balance of the Force (among them the Demiurge). To put it in Gnostic terms - Star Wars, an imbalance of Sophia and therefore of the light side of the Force, again generates the evil attached to material possession.

If I were to draw inspiration from Gnosis, I would say that when Vader dies, Luke (along with Leia) should take his place - of Father of Mortis - and rule the light side and dark side of the Force. In balance. But the Jedi, not understanding that the balance can only be achieved by dominating both sides of the Force, fall into error.

In all this there must be a Demiurge. An evil being bound only to power, desire and material craving. It could be Snoke but also a primitive evil being who continues to take new forms.

So the Demiurge / Snoke that embodies absolute evil. In Kabbalistic theories but also in Sufi, Christian, Jewish, Hindu and Buddhist (and many other philosophies as in Shaman Yoga) can be associated with a very human element: the Ego.

The Ego is the evil of material being, the material desire for power, possession, wealth, physical love, longing. The ego is the inverse of the union. I don't want to bore you more with the cabalistic theories ... also because my English is dramatically elementary while these theories are complex.

So, and I return to the cabal, to achieve union with the divine, man must first discover the divine spark within himself and then in other men. In this way, through love, compassion and union with all living beings, one can return to being the Adam, that is, the first man, direct emanation of the cosmic Force.

To put it simply. All men should help other men / living beings to give themselves to others. Only through the communion of love, knowledge and renunciation of the personal ego is the enlightenment that corresponds to peace and eternal love.

I saw in another Threed that the poetry of Rumi was published.

Rumi is a mystical Sufi, but not only, he is also an enlightened man who marries the theory (shared with many cultures, Hindus, Buddhists but also guides and Christians, and finally with kabbalistic theory. Although all these religions start from different principles, there they are theories, defined esoteric, for which man is an emanation of God himself - who is love).

So Rumi tells how love is that spark that unites man with the spirit of God who is love itself.

Rumi's thought (which unites him with other illuminated of other religions) is that man being limited needs a simplification of this divine love for which often carnal love and romantic love are expressed in his poems.
But every time it starts from an earthly love that then converges in the superior love of God. In essence if God is love, the road to find God is, itself, paved with love, every form of love.

Therefore, the emanation of God in the material world of man can be understood in the different material emanations, so compassion, friendship, romantic love, physical love, respect and every form of love.

If I combine both theories with continuous evidence from the authors of Star Wars. According to this evidence: Rey and Ben try much more than romantic love, so I think about this hypothesis.

Rey and Ben are an emanation of the Force that seeks its balance. Balance that can only be found if the father (Anakin) the son (Ben) and the daughter (Rey), return to being one with the Force bringing the balance.

Finally, there is the Alchemical version that has influenced many thinkers of all ages, for which the mystical marriages are made by two opposites Light and Shadow, masculine and feminine, soul and body that come together to return to the perfection of creation.

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Il_57010


All is very well if it were not for this hypothesis, the romantic love between Ben and Rey would end in a greater love, in Gnostic terms they return to the Pleroma.

And not having yet arrived at divine enlightenment ... I must tell you that I would be disappointed. I would like the concept to be much more mundane and material.

For example, that Anakin / Father or the spirits of the Force move Rey and Ben of this spiritual robe freeing both from the Force and leaving them to live their life together as two "Banals man and woman in love”.


@giaciak2

This Is so inspiring! Not just for the context of Star Wars but the fantasy story I am writing. I really need to read into all of these things on a greater context. Thank you! Where does the picture come from?

In the context of Star Wars, I've strongly believed that Rey, Ben, and Anakin are the ones who will bring Balance to the Force for the long term. I think it's very possible Leia would've played the role Anakin would as he would offer it to her in reconciliation. Hopefully that could still happen. But, if Rey and Ben weren't to fall in love per say in the romantic sense I always have seen it as though they join Anakin in another realm to represent the Light and Dark to Anakin who is the Balance. This would go with Rose's feeling in one of the books that she could see something in Rey that was bigger than the war and all of them. It's the Balance that Rey and Ben will help bring back to the forefront. This really I think adds an even great wrinkle to Han's speech to Rey and Finn about the Light and Dark binding the universe together. As well as Luke's lesson to Rey.

For this reason too, I don't think Ben is redeemed as clearly defined as his Grandfather. He's meant to be the Dark to contrast Rey's Light.

If the Prequels are about the Dark Side tipping things to the Dark, the Originals are about the Light Side tipping things to the Light, then the Sequels are about the Balance for the long term. The Prophecy never foretold the end of the Dark Side according to the Visual Dictionary for The Last Jedi. But, it could mean the end of the Sith and the unifying as the Force is neutral.

That's at least how I see it. Smile
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Post by giaciak2 on Sun 02 Dec 2018, 11:04 am

@BB-Rey wonderful theory about prequel and sequel! I never think about this, thank you. If you need, you can find me on tumbrl @shaara-2. (Of course I don’t know if I can help you with my bad English). The relationship between Rey is Ben is clearly sexual. The awakening of the Force of Rey and Ben was explained in key Freudian / Jungian as a representation of the wrong male archetype linked to power, to force. In TLJ all visual metaphors made one think of the awakening of the sacred feminine, but if the feminine prevails one has a decompensation in which the male figure recedes. The only positive archetype (Red) that arises from the sacred marriage is that in which the male understands the female mysticism linked to procreation (but also Sophia, from the Greek knowledge, the woman brings knowledge or spark of God). And now came the best…. (What we haven’t see again)
This man must first have found the balance in himself, with his inner self that often corresponds to the matter. While the feminine belongs to cosmic energy. Thus masculine and feminine in perfect balance with themselves can marry. Combining the spirit with matter. The sacred with the human. The moon and the sun. God and human. The man and the woman. And from the meeting of two opposites in balance reveals the perennial cycle of death (linked to the masculine) and rebirth (linked to the feminine). Basically I want to say that I expect a romantic relationship between the two.

the drawing represents the sacred marriage. The woman if you follow the dress is born from water as man is born from fire. (Think about hands scene…) In the middle there is the creation that comes from the union in perfect balance between or two opposites. The sacred grail.
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Post by BB-Rey on Sun 02 Dec 2018, 11:42 am

@giaciak2

Awh. Thank you!

I'll certainly have to follow you the next time I am on Tumblr. Thank you. Smile

That's very beautiful! Oh my gosh. I'm pretty sure it is romantic too but just to be safe and not let expectations get in the way I am trying to be open to everything. I don't want to be disappointed. I want to go in with as open and as clear of a mind as possible heading into Episode IX. Compared to The Last Jedi where I was expecting so much and only a couple bits came true. Smile

That's so beautiful. That's a central theme in my story except the woman is born of Fire. Water does come to play too. I'm still working out different aspects of how exactly and that's why I want to learn more about these things as I want to make sure I get the story right. As there's lots of philosophy and everything.
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Post by DeeBee on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 4:54 am

I wasn't sure if this should be spoilers thread or predictions.. I'm not sure it is a IX spoiler, but I suspect this new SW content is going to come up.. soooo Predictions thread it is.. [mods feel free to move it if you like. me confused.]

The first issue of that new comic series Age of the Republic was released today.
Issue 1 is the Qui-Gon Jinn issue and it's titled 'Balance'.
I don't have time to share the content in detail right now, but if no one else shares this I'll try and get back here on the weekend and share it in the Balance of the force thread.

I think it may be full of content that is relevant to IX because the whole point of the comic is Qui-Gon Jinn's search for what is the Will of the force, what is Balance and what is the role of the Jedi in the galaxy.
He talks with Yoda about it and he questions whether the Jedi are faulty in their understanding - so rather than go with what Yoda teaches, he instead reaches out to the living force. He goes on a pilgrimage led by the living force to an 'undesignated planet'.. and he sees a vision.. and.. just.. wow!!! If you love force stuff you are going to love this!

I think the vision and the conclusion he draws will play a role in events in IX - don't want to spoil the outcome, but it seems to be Qui-Gon was right to listen to the Will of the Force, and I can see Rey taking this same approach in IX. Whether the resistance agrees with it or not.
sunny
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Post by special_cases on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 5:45 am

@DeeBee Thank you! Very interesting.
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Post by giaciak2 on Thu 06 Dec 2018, 8:31 am

Dear friends,
I will bore you once again with my theories written in horrible English. These days I was meditating about words Mortis , Solo (Alone in Italian) and Nobody (Nessuno in Italian). They all have a Latin matrix. I am Italian, I come from Sardinia. In my land a dialect very similar to Latin is still spoken. So I stopped to think about the etymology of these words.
I didn't do classical studies, so I might not express everything perfectly.
Let's start from scratch.
When Clone Wars came out, I was a bit disappointed with Mortis' theory.
Mortis is the kingdom of the father, son and daughter of Clone Wars. In Italian Mortis is a word that sounds like the word Death. In fact Mortis have the same etymology of Death in Italian language. Death (Morte) and Mortis have the same Latin root (in turn derived from the Greek mors). Both words means Death. That's why at first I had difficulty associating Rey and Ben with son and daughter. Because they lived in the world of the dead (Mortis).
Now let's move on word "Solo", it's the surname of Han and Ben. This word also has a Latin root "solus". That means unique, unaccompanied. From the same root comes the word Solitude which means Alone SOLO=Alone. In ancient times this word had a positive meaning. Who was alone did not need anyone. Over time this word has taken a negative meaning and today only one person alone=SOLO is considered sad.
So Han, if you've seen the movie SOLO, when they ask him: "Han who?" he says "I'm just HAN: Han Solo" (SOLO means without anyone).

Now we get to Rey. She's "Rey from nowhere" (she's not from Jakku), she doesn't have a last name (so she doesn't have a story, she has no ties, she's alone, but the worst thing is that she's "NONE", in Italian "Nessuno", Nessuno=Nobody. Even the word Nobody in Italian "Nessuno" has a Latin root (and with a negative value it means not even one, nobody).

Basically we have Rey no one (nobody) and Ben alone. Both alone and sad.

That's my fantasy: If you get the strength away from Rey and Ben. The couple Rey remains nobody and Ben (alone) Solo.
So the happy end will be Rey nobody get married with Ben alone, then they will never be Nobody and Alone again.
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Post by Starliteprism on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 5:10 am

Hey all!! The thought just hit me. What if in Rey's force vision, when Kylo appears to approach her with Knights of Ren behind him...what if that is not Kylo but the OTHER APPRENTICE, who could have been in charge of Knights of Ren prior to Kylo...

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Ixmmd2rq6gwz
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Post by SW_Heroine_Journey on Fri 14 Dec 2018, 6:19 am

@Starliteprism wrote:Hey all!! The thought just hit me. What if in Rey's force vision, when Kylo appears to approach her with Knights of Ren behind him...what if that is not Kylo but the OTHER APPRENTICE, who could have been in charge of Knights of Ren prior to Kylo...

Predictions for Episode 9 - Page 37 Ixmmd2rq6gwz
@Starliteprism

Interesting.....I know that postedbygaslight on tumblr (and others, I am certain) is guessing that Keri Russell is playing this character. Very intriguing how all of this will tie together. Smile
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