The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by giaciak2 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 9:52 am

Hello :-)
In my opinion, the connection between Kylo and Rey was born in TFA. The twins Luke and Leia had a connection. Now the twins are - twin souls. The connection was closed by Rey because she was angry.
But I think - breaking connection - is necessary for directors to make the transfer of deliveries.
From a narrative point of view. Rey must switch from being awakened to feeling like a woman. Not only as a creative mother, but also as an individual. She must no longer look for the ethically correct path. (Then right for who?) Luke, the resistance? Is that what she really wants?.
Kylo, ​​must mature too. Now he is alone and unhappy and knows that it is his fault. Even if he thinks he's right - bring order to the galaxy. He will have to do something to redeem himself from the killing of his father. I believe there will be a moment when he will be repented. Or he will do something "good-hearted" like his father. I expect that when he will discover he is very similar to his father, this discovery will bring him back to BEN and make the right decisions.
From my point of view. The link of force on TLJ has occurred every time one or both were thought.
He had his wound treated.
She was with Luke and thought of him.
She goes into the cave looking for herself and finds his image ... and casually confides in him. After one minute ... she holding out his hand.

I expect In IX -she close the link door for a while. The time needed to make their character evolve in a more mature way.
In other, they must both rethink what happened between them. Their attraction and what one did for each other. They saved each other's lives. They know each other intimately, I mean in their fragility. I think it is impossible that this link does not continue.
I would like the link of strength in episode IX will to be smaller and their relationship evolves by person.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Xylo Ren on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:06 am

Look, she had to close the door

They can't take off into space with it open, I mean duh, the porgs would fly out
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by IoJovi on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:10 am

@Xylo Ren wrote:Look, she had to close the door

They can't take off into space with it open, I mean duh, the porgs would fly out
@Xylo Ren

I am sitting in a dentist chair, waiting for my mouth to numb up. Laughing right now is pretty difficult, but yet here I am. lol!
Thanks for that.

Seriously though, if the door is shut permanently , why go about letting the audience know the Force bond still exists after Snoke is dead? It was also noted several different times neither Rey nor Ben have control over when it opens. There’s no way this won’t be addressed again in IX.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Xylo Ren on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:18 am

@IoJovi wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:Look, she had to close the door

They can't take off into space with it open, I mean duh, the porgs would fly out
@Xylo Ren

I am sitting in a dentist chair, waiting for my mouth to numb up.  Laughing right now is pretty difficult, but yet here I am.  lol!
Thanks for that.

Seriously though, if the door is shut permanently , why go about letting the audience know the Force bond still exists after Snoke is dead?  It was also noted several different times neither Rey nor Ben have control over when it opens.  There’s no way this won’t be addressed again in IX.
@IoJovi

It literally has to close so they can take off since they're in a hurry to get away from the First Order...

I mean what are they gonna do, sit down and have a heart-to-heart while Hux and the troopers are storming after them? scratch
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by snufkin on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:27 am

@Dar-ren19 wrote:@snufkin something you said up there reminds me. So we're told by Hux that Rey took Snoke's ship, right? How exactly did she end up hiding that fact from the resistance? Or is Chewie keeping that secret? Where is that ship?

@Dar-ren19

My first viewing I just laughed at Hux's line b/c it reminded me of Kylo trying to track her down on SKB after she'd mind tricked James Bond b/c he realized that she was going to try and steal one of their ships to get out of there. Which made sense he'd think that b/c she'd first come to his attention for hotwiring the ship he learned to fly on. But anyways, I can't remember who said it or where on here (things move fast), but somebody pointed out that Hux possibly assumed that Rey stole Snoke's ship when it's also possible that's the ship Rose and BB-8 commander after Finn kills Phasma. Because when they arrive at the base in Crait, the Resistance opens fire on them at first. So it's likely that Hux thought Phasma had executed Rose and Finn and b/c Snoke's personal ship was missing, that's the one Rey stole. But that's all speculation and we'll likely never get an explanation b/c Rian Johnson made a point of hiding Rey in most of the 3rd act.

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by lauvamp on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:28 am

I confess, the first time I watched the movie: the throne break-up + Crait + the door + smiling Poe + hearing the impressions from the people who went with me = I had a bad feeling.

After watching it several times and reading different kind of opinions, I stay more positive.

I swear it would be absolutely disappointing if this special link (and very interesting relationship) is definitely gone and Rey = super-good heroine / Kylo = villain who deserves to be killed. NO WAY.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by giaciak2 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 10:45 am

@Xylo Ren  ha ha ha ha ha ha ah ah ah lol!

For me it is impossible for them not to return together in episode IX.

About connection. I had an idea. I do not know if it's a good place to talk about it here.

About connection Force.
I have noticed that every time Rey attacks decisively. Kylo loses his strength.
Example 1. In TFA in the forest.
- Kylo looks at Rey, kidnapped . She takes the sword.
- When Kylo offers himself as a teacher. She closes her eyes. The red and blue colors blend together. Like their minds. Like their senses. Rey closes her eyes as if she was breathing something. Kylo looks at her with astonished eyes, but it is what he feels inside himself that upsets him.
She opens her eyes and moves the sword like the fiercest JEDI. He is weak then loses.

In TLJ. Throne Room.
- She is tortured by Snoke. She is weak. But Kylo has the power to destroy Snoke.
- Rey fights against 3 guards. Grab Kylo's leg. Kylo folds. She has all the energy to destroy 3 warriors.
- The moment that Kylo fights fiercely. She is wounded.
- The moment Rey kills the last guard she is very strong. While Kylo is in trouble. She throws his sword at him.

What I wanted to say is that the link goes beyond the telepathic connection. When they are - physically - together. Force could move from one to another. Help with my English ... I don't know if you understand.
Mathematical example. The force is worth 100. Rey has 50 light strength. Kylo has 50 Dark Strength. If Rey takes 30 dark force (from Kylo) to fight like a dark Jedi  the sum becomes 30 dark force (taken by Kylo) + 20 strength of light. Kylo immediately becomes 20 of dark+30 of light (taken from Rey).
In practice the strength is always 100 and goes from Kylo to Rey, from Rey to Kylo. The balance ....
I think this bond of strength. More than the telepathic connection. It is what really binds them.

Beyond the telepathic connection. This is the force that connects them.
We had already talked about it?
I think they will use the displacement of force in IX. Unfortunately, I think it will help Ben to save Rey. He will give all his strength to her as an act of giving and redemption and he will die. But I hope that she would eventually use some of the force to bring it back to life.
Sorry I got lost in my thoughts.


Last edited by Irina de France on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:06 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Double posts merged together)
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 11:03 am

@lauvamp wrote:I confess, the first time I watched the movie: the throne break-up + Crait + the door + smiling Poe + hearing the impressions from the people who went with me = I had a bad feeling.

After watching it several times and reading different kind of opinions, I stay more positive.

I swear it would be absolutely disappointing if this special link (and very interesting relationship) is definitely gone and Rey = super-good heroine / Kylo = villain who deserves to be killed. NO WAY.
@lauvamp
Well, that wasn't Rian's intention at the very least. He has spoken out repeatedly about seeing no point in getting inside Kylo's head just to turn around and say he's a villain who needs to die. As in, a story about Kylo getting his comeuppance is not satisfying and not what Rian was building toward. Rian expects Kylo to be redeemed. He said as much, and while some could make the argument that Rian isn't making the final chapter and therefore his opinion means nothing, I still feel confident in saying we can cross "Rey and Kylo are bitter enemies until Kylo gets his comeuppance" off the list of possibilities. JJ and Rian worked together on this. They seem to share a lot of the same opinions when it comes to Kylo, Rey and the overall story. JJ's going to end this well.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by lauvamp on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 11:15 am

@FrolickingFizzgig

I hope so! I think Rian made an absolutely beautiful (Reylo) work, you can feel he loves their relationship and Kylo. And I think JJ too. I don't see the point of creating such a complicated Dark Prince to kill him and that's all, it would be an awful ending for the Skywalker saga.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by whisperingwillow on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 11:17 am

I think whether we see forcebond scenes again or not is kinda besides the point. The point was to build this emotional connection between these two individuals to give an emotional weight to the story. Unless JJ is a bad storyteller (and I don't think he is) he will need to build upon this emotional connection between these two individuals. There has to be something that brings that emotional weight to the story just like in the OT there was a father and son.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 11:32 am

@whisperingwillow wrote:I think whether we see forcebond scenes again or not is kinda besides the point. The point was to build this emotional connection between these two individuals to give an emotional weight to the story. Unless JJ is a bad storyteller (and I don't think he is) he will need to build upon this emotional connection between these two individuals. There has to be something that brings that emotional weight to the story just like in the OT there was a father and son.
@whisperingwillow
Exactly.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by ZioRen on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 12:03 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@lauvamp wrote:I confess, the first time I watched the movie: the throne break-up + Crait + the door + smiling Poe + hearing the impressions from the people who went with me = I had a bad feeling.

After watching it several times and reading different kind of opinions, I stay more positive.

I swear it would be absolutely disappointing if this special link (and very interesting relationship) is definitely gone and Rey = super-good heroine / Kylo = villain who deserves to be killed. NO WAY.
@lauvamp
Well, that wasn't Rian's intention at the very least. He has spoken out repeatedly about seeing no point in getting inside Kylo's head just to turn around and say he's a villain who needs to die. As in, a story about Kylo getting his comeuppance is not satisfying and not what Rian was building toward. Rian expects Kylo to be redeemed. He said as much, and while some could make the argument that Rian isn't making the final chapter and therefore his opinion means nothing, I still feel confident in saying we can cross "Rey and Kylo are bitter enemies until Kylo gets his comeuppance" off the list of possibilities. JJ and Rian worked together on this. They seem to share a lot of the same opinions when it comes to Kylo, Rey and the overall story. JJ's going to end this well.
@FrolickingFizzgig

And, of course, Rian has said that he sat down with J.J. to talk about where he left the characters and most likely where he thinks they could go. In the end it's fully up to J.J. but I can't ever picture Rian telling him what he's told us (the point was to build Rey and Kylo up emotionally, leave Kylo as a complex villain who deserves a better story than just dying and who can be redeemed, and knock out the mentors so Reylo are the top dogs with a complicated relationship) and J.J. deciding to handwave all that away and go a different direction. After all, those things were obviously his intentions from the start. He'd be the last of IX's possible directors to ever drop those aspects because they were HIS ideas!

It doesn't concern me that the Force bond being gone would change that. I just really, really, REALLY don't want it to be gone. Damn it, it feels like something so iconic for Reylo and it was such a victory for us. I mean, it was one of the fandom's first solid theories far before anything was known about TLJ.  I won't pretend I don't have a pure personal bias about this beyond seeing the dramatic potential. I hope J.J. doesn't do me dirty!

But I still can't see him dropping it. From a writing standpoint, that Force bond is ridiculously convenient. Especially now that the stakes and tension are higher than ever and it wouldn't be so easy to get Rey and Kylo physically connected. Not using it would be like kicking off a sneaker before starting the race. You can still win the race but, you know, why'd you do that? Laughing
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by rey09 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 12:21 pm

I think it's absolutely hilarious (and sad) that people think the force bond is done for because "she closed the door on him" LMAO! Like seriously? There was a great post on tumblr where they used Han's saying "That's not how the force works!" Like no s***. This is the most powerful thing ever (Luke's astroprojection thing) and they think she can just "close it." Lawls. And as stated above, the force bond also allows for a lot of creative story telling so why the hell would a writer pass that off?? Mind-boggling...
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 12:35 pm

@rey09 wrote:I think it's absolutely hilarious (and sad) that people think the force bond is done for because "she closed the door on him" LMAO! Like seriously? There was a great post on tumblr where they used Han's saying "That's not how the force works!" Like no s***. This is the most powerful thing ever (Luke's astroprojection thing) and they think she can just "close it." Lawls. And as stated above, the force bond also allows for a lot of creative story telling so why the hell would a writer pass that off?? Mind-boggling...
@rey09
I think most people who say that are antis clinging to the next thing. That seems to be their MO.  Laughing
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 12:37 pm

I know that we have a few newbies here, so just to give some of you a heads up, in case you don't know about it, we have a few threads on the forum set up specifically for stressing out over this type of thing:

Fan Fatigue and Ambiguity

and

Our Doubts for TLJ/Episode IX
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Teo oswald on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 1:38 pm

if, if rey has closed the connection, kylo can always reopen it. I mean, they are tightly connected to each other, two halves of a whole. Maybe he will succeed Anyway already in episode VII databank talked about the mysterious connection between them, also JJ therefore he will continue what he started. Reylo is not finished, it's just the beginning
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 1:58 pm

@special_cases awesome response! Thanks.

@ISeeAnIsland Thank you! I didn't know about these threads, and this is something that I need.  I have been defending Reylo and in battle it seems on other social media sites...and I am so worn down.


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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 2:48 pm

Good question. At the end of TLJ I wasn't under the impression that Rey could now close the force bond b/c as mentioned in the movie, it was an involuntary thing and they couldn't control it, and of course she was closing the falcon door before liftoff lol. It was a plot device to develop Rey and Kylo's connection but any writer, I feel, would be itching to continue it just on a purely narrative level and how it could provide some great dramatic tension and conflict. I believe Rian (or one of the story group members, can't remember which) hinted in one of his interviews that the bond grew stronger over the course of the film so that may be something JJ could play with. If it returns in IX, it could continue to evolve to the point where Rey and Kylo could see each others surroundings or it grows so strong that when one is in physical pain, the other feels it or vice versa (maybe even tie in the idea of one dying affecting the other too). I love the Force Bond because apart from the obvious, on a technical level those scenes are amazing (the way Rian manipulated the sound so it seems like they are separated from the rest of the world as they zero in on each other, lost in time, as it were). It's also unique to Rey and Kylo in Star Wars (apart from the old EU) and just unique amongst romantic couples in general. It binds them together in such an intimate and spiritual way and exemplifies the whole 'intertwined destinies soulmates' vibe (I mean, they literally couldn't escape each other). I do hope JJ continues it in IX, but at that point, I think it's important that Rey and Kylo spend a lot of time with each other physically. I don't think it would be a good idea to separate them until the end of IX as I feel there's a lot more development for them to get to a mutual, selfless loving relationship organically.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Dar-ren19 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 4:53 pm

@snufkin wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:@snufkin something you said up there reminds me. So we're told by Hux that Rey took Snoke's ship, right? How exactly did she end up hiding that fact from the resistance? Or is Chewie keeping that secret? Where is that ship?

@Dar-ren19

My first viewing I just laughed at Hux's line b/c it reminded me of Kylo trying to track her down on SKB after she'd mind tricked James Bond b/c he realized that she was going to try and steal one of their ships to get out of there. Which made sense he'd think that b/c she'd first come to his attention for hotwiring the ship he learned to fly on. But anyways, I can't remember who said it or where on here (things move fast), but somebody pointed out that Hux possibly assumed that Rey stole Snoke's ship when it's also possible that's the ship Rose and BB-8 commander after Finn kills Phasma. Because when they arrive at the base in Crait, the Resistance opens fire on them at first. So it's likely that Hux thought Phasma had executed Rose and Finn and b/c Snoke's personal ship was missing, that's the one Rey stole. But that's all speculation and we'll likely never get an explanation b/c Rian Johnson made a point of hiding Rey in most of the 3rd act.

@snufkin oh, so the ship that Rose and Finn were in was Snoke's ship?! I didn't know this! I thought it was just a normal fighter. I'm going to find some clips and take another look. I guess you're right and we'll never know exactly how she got back on the Falcon, but I guess I just assumed that somehow Chewie picked her up from whatever ship she stole. Thanks for responding to yet another dumb and curious question Smile

Another thing that's bothering me is that I see people assuming (not on here, but some YT reviewers etc) that he said that line about blowing up the Falcon out of hatred for his father. We pretty much KNOW that he didn't hate Han...right? To me, this was the "scorned woman" scenario except for gender reversal. Kylo feels scorned here by Rey and he knew Rey was shooting the fighter's down.

I don't know if JJ will ever do this, but I feel it's important for the patricide issue to be resolved a bit. I don't think people are really getting the reasons behind it and also what Snoke clearly saw and mentioned about Ben being weakened after the act.

@nickandnora wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:
The Force connection is just too interesting and something we’ve never seen fully realized in SW before. Also, there’s unfinished business and emotions between Rey and Kylo that could play out better through a continuation of a connection through the Force. Rian may have created the Force connection, but he was inspired by JJ connecting them in the first place in TFA so I could see JJ eager to use it in some way.

@Kessel  I think the key is what more can be achieved by a continuation of the connection. It's entirely possible that Rey (perhaps she asked Leia seeing that Leia had a similar one to her brother -- at first when Luke showed up on Crait and went straight to Leia, I thought RJ was creating a similar scene to Ben and Rey, but then I realized everyone could see Luke lol) learns to control it because it's definitely a disrupting influence. But, as we all know, she's torn. She's torn between her head and her heart, and the latter pretty much is beating for that man she closed that door on. I wouldn't be surprised, like you said, if JJ not only retains the connection, but ups the ante in some way.

Cinematically speaking, the sound and imagery of the force-bond is just incredibly compelling. I believe that the GA and also fans were pretty much dumbfounded by the snap! crackle! and pop! of how they created and executed it. The romantic/sexual tension between the two characters were just on a completely different level, thanks to this particular plot device, and I don't see JJ doing away with it completely, Father of Reylo that he is. Wink
@Dar-ren19

One possibility that occurs to me for "upping the ante" is a result of a comment early on in their first force-bonding session: "I can't see your surroundings."

What if, to symbolize that the force-bond between them is only getting stronger, they do in fact start to see each other's surroundings? That might be a development that J.J. needs to use for the plot itself. Because at this stage, I see the benefits of retaining the force-bond as more plot driven than emotional (it's a damn convenient device). I talked about this in another thread, but if done correctly, them having little to no contact with each other over the course of the film is fine with me as long as they have ways of showing that they are dwelling on each other. I mean, Kylo's feelings are more clear and Adam's the better actor with facial expressions and Kylo Ren's the king of brood, so it won't take much on his end, but I also think that Hux or one of his knights finding out what actually happened in that throne room is key because that provides opportunity for someone in the film to voice the obvious: "You're in love with her." On Rey's end, I'd like to see a Rey/Rose connection. I said it in the Resistance thread, but a female friendship is SORELY needed in these films, and would also provide Rey with an appropriate sounding board. And the way Rose has been drawn, I think she would totally "get" it (I appreciate Rose way more as a character after more than one viewing - she's going to come in handy in that last film).

That is all to say that I love the force-bond, I think they will retain it minimally and develop it as they need to next film, but I don't think it's absolutely necessary any more to the emotional aspect of Rey and Kylo's connection. That's already been established, and the separation will do the rest of the job during the next film.

@nickandnora I love both your ideas there. And you're right that that's pretty much the next step in the FB. The addition of the surroundings would also incorporate an element of danger if the FO is now on the lookout for specifically Rey. I have to admit that I'm reading a fanfic right now that deals with this very question (it's called Tactical Surrender). Dealt with well, this could be an interesting plot point.

Re Rose... she struck me as very honest and open, and perhaps JUST the prescription for Rey who's very, very closed and inward-looking, and now has even more reason to be so. I wonder to whom she'll spill her deepest secret first (if it happens that way)?


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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Starliteprism on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 5:23 pm

@Xylo Ren wrote:Look, she had to close the door

They can't take off into space with it open, I mean duh, the porgs would fly out
@Xylo Ren

Maybe this also hints at the fact that Kylo can now see her surroundings??
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 5:52 pm

@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:@snufkin something you said up there reminds me. So we're told by Hux that Rey took Snoke's ship, right? How exactly did she end up hiding that fact from the resistance? Or is Chewie keeping that secret? Where is that ship?

@Dar-ren19

My first viewing I just laughed at Hux's line b/c it reminded me of Kylo trying to track her down on SKB after she'd mind tricked James Bond b/c he realized that she was going to try and steal one of their ships to get out of there. Which made sense he'd think that b/c she'd first come to his attention for hotwiring the ship he learned to fly on. But anyways, I can't remember who said it or where on here (things move fast), but somebody pointed out that Hux possibly assumed that Rey stole Snoke's ship when it's also possible that's the ship Rose and BB-8 commander after Finn kills Phasma. Because when they arrive at the base in Crait, the Resistance opens fire on them at first. So it's likely that Hux thought Phasma had executed Rose and Finn and b/c Snoke's personal ship was missing, that's the one Rey stole. But that's all speculation and we'll likely never get an explanation b/c Rian Johnson made a point of hiding Rey in most of the 3rd act.

@snufkin oh, so the ship that Rose and Finn were in was Snoke's ship?! I didn't know this! I thought it was just a normal fighter. I'm going to find some clips and take another look. I guess you're right and we'll never know exactly how she got back on the Falcon, but I guess I just assumed that somehow Chewie picked her up from whatever ship she stole. Thanks for responding to yet another dumb and curious question Smile

Another thing that's bothering me is that I see people assuming (not on here, but some YT reviewers etc) that he said that line about blowing up the Falcon out of hatred for his father. We pretty much KNOW that he didn't hate Han...right? To me, this was the "scorned woman" scenario except for gender reversal. Kylo feels scorned here by Rey and he knew Rey was shooting the fighter's down.

I don't know if JJ will ever do this, but I feel it's important for the patricide issue to be resolved a bit. I don't think people are really getting the reasons behind it and also what Snoke clearly saw and mentioned about Ben being weakened after the act.
@Dar-ren19

Well, we're not sure if Rose and Finn took Snoke's ship, but it's something that's been pondered/speculated on here. Rose and Finn clearly took some sort of officer's shuttle, but I don't think it's ever explained whose shuttle it is. I think it was a reasonable mistake on Hux's part, if it was Finn and Rose who took the shuttle--everything was so chaotic as that hangar was blowing up that the FO could have easily thought that it was Rey who took that ship.

As far as how Rey got out of there...we'll probably never know. If I recall, she had a semi throwaway line to Chewie about meeting back up at "the coordinates", so it sounded like they had a predetermined place to meet up after she left the Supremacy (she had likely hoped to have Ben with her when she'd given Chewie those instructions).

I think we also don't know if Kylo knows that Rey was in the Falcon shooting down the TIEs. It's possible that he does; on the other hand, the last he'd heard of Rey was that she'd stolen Snoke's shuttle and taken off from the Supremacy. Regardless of whether Kylo knew Rey was in the Falcon, I think that the "shoot that piece of junk out of the sky" line was more about Kylo's self-loathing and wanting to "kill the past" than anything else at that point.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Darth Dementor on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 6:08 pm

If JJ and Rian are still going by canon rules then I would say not. "A bond between two living beings is not something easily broken. It is not a choice… it is like breaking a feeling. Like turning away from the Force. To break a bond, your feelings would have to change, or one of you would have to die—but even then, the bond wouldn't go away, it would simply… it would simply be empty, a wound." ―Master Zez-Kai Ell
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_bond

Rey still has feelings for Ben but she will struggle on whether to act on them now or not. Her still having the ForceBond will only add to that aspect of their storyline. Not to mention I'm sure Ben experienced Rey's feelings as she saw his actions, feeling them exactly as she did, because of their connection. The combination of his regret over them on top of Rey's emotions could be another crack in his dark armor making him want to shed it even faster. Sorta like in Spider-Man 3 when Peter struck MJ and hurting her was the final straw to make him realize he has to change.

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by snufkin on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 6:09 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@snufkin wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:@snufkin something you said up there reminds me. So we're told by Hux that Rey took Snoke's ship, right? How exactly did she end up hiding that fact from the resistance? Or is Chewie keeping that secret? Where is that ship?

@Dar-ren19

My first viewing I just laughed at Hux's line b/c it reminded me of Kylo trying to track her down on SKB after she'd mind tricked James Bond b/c he realized that she was going to try and steal one of their ships to get out of there. Which made sense he'd think that b/c she'd first come to his attention for hotwiring the ship he learned to fly on. But anyways, I can't remember who said it or where on here (things move fast), but somebody pointed out that Hux possibly assumed that Rey stole Snoke's ship when it's also possible that's the ship Rose and BB-8 commander after Finn kills Phasma. Because when they arrive at the base in Crait, the Resistance opens fire on them at first. So it's likely that Hux thought Phasma had executed Rose and Finn and b/c Snoke's personal ship was missing, that's the one Rey stole. But that's all speculation and we'll likely never get an explanation b/c Rian Johnson made a point of hiding Rey in most of the 3rd act.

@snufkin oh, so the ship that Rose and Finn were in was Snoke's ship?! I didn't know this! I thought it was just a normal fighter. I'm going to find some clips and take another look. I guess you're right and we'll never know exactly how she got back on the Falcon, but I guess I just assumed that somehow Chewie picked her up from whatever ship she stole. Thanks for responding to yet another dumb and curious question :)

Another thing that's bothering me is that I see people assuming (not on here, but some YT reviewers etc) that he said that line about blowing up the Falcon out of hatred for his father. We pretty much KNOW that he didn't hate Han...right? To me, this was the "scorned woman" scenario except for gender reversal. Kylo feels scorned here by Rey and he knew Rey was shooting the fighter's down.

I don't know if JJ will ever do this, but I feel it's important for the patricide issue to be resolved a bit. I don't think people are really getting the reasons behind it and also what Snoke clearly saw and mentioned about Ben being weakened after the act.
@Dar-ren19

Well, we're not sure if Rose and Finn took Snoke's ship, but it's something that's been pondered/speculated on here. Rose and Finn clearly took some sort of officer's shuttle, but I don't think it's ever explained whose shuttle it is. I think it was a reasonable mistake on Hux's part, if it was Finn and Rose who took the shuttle--everything was so chaotic as that hangar was blowing up that the FO could have easily thought that it was Rey who took that ship.

As far as how Rey got out of there...we'll probably never know. If I recall, she had a semi throwaway line to Chewie about meeting back up at "the coordinates", so it sounded like they had a predetermined place to meet up after she left the Supremacy (she had likely hoped to have Ben with her when she'd given Chewie those instructions).

I think we also don't know if Kylo knows that Rey was in the Falcon shooting down the TIEs. It's possible that he does; on the other hand, the last he'd heard of Rey was that she'd stolen Snoke's shuttle and taken off from the Supremacy. Regardless of whether Kylo knew Rey was in the Falcon, I think that the "shoot that piece of junk out of the sky" line was more about Kylo's self-loathing and wanting to "kill the past" than anything else at that point.
@ISeeAnIsland

I wish we could at least know what happened when Chewie picked her up, "date went that badly, huh?" There was some quote somewhere that the Space Limo was actually just the office vehicle, not Kylo's sole ride. The one Finn and Rose had looked straight out Vader's shuttle for the OT, which was the design used for Krennic at the beginning of Rogue One (god help me, I'm actually talking about ship specifications). I still just think it's funny because of the "she's going to steal a ship!" line in TFA.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Dar-ren19 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 6:19 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
I think we also don't know if Kylo knows that Rey was in the Falcon shooting down the TIEs. It's possible that he does; on the other hand, the last he'd heard of Rey was that she'd stolen Snoke's shuttle and taken off from the Supremacy. Regardless of whether Kylo knew Rey was in the Falcon, I think that the "shoot that piece of junk out of the sky" line was more about Kylo's self-loathing and wanting to "kill the past" than anything else at that point.

You're absolutely right. Now that I think about it. He didn't think about it. That line was wrung out from deep in his past.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by vaderito on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 8:01 pm

The bond cannot be broken. I'll start with this. Back in 2016, Rian tweeted this cryptic image of a red thread.



Many Reylos thought it was the Red Thread of Fate and thus a hint at the Force Bond


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_thread_of_fate

The Red Thread of Fate, also referred to as the Red Thread of Marriage, and other variants, is an East Asian belief originating from Chinese legend. According to this myth, the gods tie an invisible red cord around the ankles of those that are destined to meet one another in a certain situation or help each other in a certain way. Often, in Japanese and Korean culture, it is thought to be tied around the little finger. According to Chinese legend, the deity in charge of "the red thread" is believed to be the old lunar matchmaker god, who is in charge of marriages.

The two people connected by the red thread are destined lovers, regardless of place, time, or circumstances. This magical cord may stretch or tangle, but never break. This myth is similar to the Western concept of soulmate or a destined flame.

Two things are of importance here:

never break

soulmate/destined (twin) flame

Now, lets examine Twin Flames:



Two halves is exactly what Rian said about Rey and Kylo.

Finally, take a look at the story behind Red String of Fate. It has destined lovers where one lover scars another:

One story featuring the red thread of fate involves a young boy. Walking home one night, a young boy sees an old man (Yue Xia Lao) standing beneath the moonlight. The man explains to the boy that he is attached to his destined wife by a red thread. Yue Xia Lao shows the boy the young girl who is destined to be his wife. Being young and having no interest in having a wife, the young boy picks up a rock and throws it at the girl, running away. Many years later, when the boy has grown into a young man, his parents arrange a wedding for him. On the night of his wedding, his wife waits for him in their bedroom, with the traditional veil covering her face. Raising it, the man is delighted to find that his wife is one of the great beauties of his village. However, she wears an adornment on her eyebrow. He asks her why she wears it and she responds that when she was a young girl, a boy threw a rock at her that struck her, leaving a scar on her eyebrow. She self-consciously wears the adornment to cover it up. The woman is, in fact, the same young girl connected to the man by the red thread shown to him by Yue Xia Lao back in his childhood, showing that they were connected by the red thread of fate.

It's not going to be broken.

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