The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 2:47 am

it's nice to hear the sound of force and the lightsaber in the center
with Kylo on the left and Rey on the right.

and then we see the ship broken in two, the lightsaber broken in two and finally that beautiful sound that spreads in the galaxy.
I've always seen it as the cry of Force and the whine of the lightsaber Smile
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:13 am

@"Teo oswald beautifully stated!  

I wonder since Anakin forged the lightsaber if he is trying to send a message to Rey and Ben Solo, especially his grandson.  If the reverse of the Padme/Anakin story theory is true, this could be Anakin's way of talking to the dual protagonist, for it was Anakin's personality that hued that lightsaber.  

FA alludes to the fact that Vader has showed Kylo the power of the dark side, and Kylo feels that's his calling to finish what Vader started. However, we know from the end of ROTJ, that Anakin is the true Force Ghost (if we go by canon). So i wonder if what Kylo saw was a false projection made by Snoke....and this is Anakin's way of talking to his grandson since Snoke brainwashed him since childhood.  

I don't think the past should die; I believe the past should be at peace with the hope of this future generation. That's why I hope the legacy lightsaber would be forged anew.  That's why I hope Kylo will once again be welcomed onto the Falcon, for that is another metaphor (one of the home).  That's what Han says when he comes on board in FA, "Chewie, we're home." That was the end shot of TLJ, all the main characters (except for Kylo) on board the home ship, for planetary homes come and go.  That ship has remained.   And to me, that gives those deleted scenes with Kylo on board the Falcon more depth and hurt for Kylo.  In Claudia Grey's Bloodlines, there is an excerpt where Leia expresses a wish to go on the Falcon and have adventures with Han, but her political responsibilities keep her.  And I wonder if that was Ben Solo's desire as well.  All he wanted to do was be on the Falcon, to be at home, with his parents and Chewie, having adventures.

For that's all Anakin wanted. He wanted his mother. He wanted to protect Padme and their children... And Palpatine used those attachments to seduce him to power.  And we see that same need in Ben Solo, For, to me, that is the Will of the Force, that is the theme of this new trilogy....that we don't go to war to kill and "let it die."  We go to war to save those we love instead.  That is what the Dark Side has used against the Jedi: attachments, and to me, that is the evil in the Jedi.  For it is those attachments like home and family (blood or not) that matter the most. I believe that was Anakin's lesson to the Jedi Council in which they failed to hear.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Riri on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 3:31 am

@Night Huntress
OMG that is the most brilliant analysis of the vision scene i've seen yet. It also makes perfect sense. I think most Reylos believe the visions were more personal and that alaysis brings it home! I always found if intriguing when Rey says to Luke "if I go to him", like she knows based on what she saw, she believes that ahe ALONE can "save him" in that moment. Also its SW tradition for visions to not be played out in a linear fashion but take the most difficult path. I mean just look at Darth he-will-destroy-the-sith" Vader. Smile

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Night Huntress on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 5:30 am

@Riri

yeah, it contains everything I mused about that vision while they're touch hands.
Unfortunately I'm not so good at writing my thoughts down- thank the force for those talented people who put it into words so beautifully.

Some people commented on Tumblr that they think Ben saw something different because he seemed so detached and cool when Rey arrived at the Supremacy. I disagree - my take on his cool almost dismissive behavior is that he needed to shield his thoughts and intent from Snoke and concentrate on coming up with a plan to save them both.

"Because of what I saw, when the moment comes you’ll be the one to turn..." That's not a conclusion he would make if he only saw them fighting the PG. He saw her by his side...and that didn't happened in the throne room. They fought together, yes- but from what both of them said that's NOT what they saw. They saw them being together and that's why both thought the other would turn...because they can't imagine that outcome any other wise.

And it would explain why Kylo/Ben was so hurt and reacted so violently after she left him... she not only turned down his proposal- he shattered whatever dream of a future with them together he possibly had. He thought he was a monster and beyond hope and saving...then Rey gave him hope again, convinced him it's NOT to late just to break him all over again.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 5:49 am

@Night Huntress

That's an awesome Tumblir. Here's something for the hope of future Reylo babies. Rian Johnson liked a tweet from Sad Kylo Ren. Smile

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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Teo oswald on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 6:42 am

@Night Huntress exactly the vision that Ben saw and the fight that the two lovers have done are two separate things.

@Good-olio Raeh If RJ likes it, it means that he approves Smile Rian I see your face, I see your smile
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by 12 Parsnips on Sun 11 Feb 2018, 7:26 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@Teo oswald wrote:@giaciak2

Rey: You don't have to do this. I feel the conflict in you. It's tearing you apart. Ben, when we touched hands, I saw you future. Just the shape of it but solid and clear. You will not bow before Snoke. You'll turn. I'll help you.

Kylo Ren: I saw something too. I know that when the time comes, you'll be the one to turn. You'll stand with me, Rey. I saw who your parents are.

Kylo Ren:  I know that when the time comes, you'll be the one to turn. You'll stand with me, Rey.

I think he is not talking about what will happen soon but about an event that will take place in the last episode.

If we think about it, it's possible. If Kylo knew that Rey would help him defeat Snoke Why he would say  that sentence?
@Teo oswald

I read some very good analyzes about that on Tumblr yesterday. I agree with every aspect.

https://mother-of-porgs.tumblr.com/post/170730900720/the-romantic-force-bond-vision-and-a-dissection-of
@Night Huntress

Thank you for the link to that analysis. I had never thought of Ben's vision in quite those terms--and now I feel kind of dense that it never crossed my mind! Razz I look forward to mulling these ideas over!
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 2:48 am

@PalmettoBlue wrote:I’d say it’s still there. The fact that it happened after Snoke died demonstrated clearly that it wasn’t his construct and that it was still in existence. Might it change and evolve? Sure. But it’s still there.
@PalmettoBlue

Agree with this.In fact I highly doubt Snoke was responsible for it, I suspect he simply claimed this in order to break down Rey's resolve, and the fact that it existed post Snoke proves this. I also don't think Rey herself closed the bond at the end; notice how the sound of the bond closing occurred after she closed the door of the Falcon. It was meant to be symbolic, I think.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by giaciak2 on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 9:30 am

My Dear REYLO Friend. I read parts of our dialogues with the translator. I have read and seen remarkable writings and videos. It seemed to me that some writings and analyzes are yours. Could I have your names clear so I can follow you on Twitter and Tumbrl please?. On tumbrl I'm Shaara-2. On twitter you find me as @giaciak2 .
I also seemed to understand that some of you have a blog. I don't know if it's OK to write these things here, but for sure in this Tread there are all the people I love reading more.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by highleycreative on Wed 21 Feb 2018, 12:44 am

From a purely movie-making perspective I think they will keep the Force Bond open. I think it was pretty much universally agreed upon that the force bond scenes were some of the strongest in the entire movie. If anything, I feel like they may get stronger. Perhaps Ray will try to shut him out in the beginning or vice versa but I see them coming together regardless. The only thing better than a force bond scene is an actual face to face scene!

I can understand the panic though - we've invested so much in these characters, I can't cope with the fact that there is even a chance it may not happen.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Sat 10 Mar 2018, 6:15 pm

Alright, with the novelization of the Last Jedi out and Rey’s subtext when she closes the Falcon door, do we still agree that it is still open?

My thoughts: I don’t wish to spoil anything here, but if you know what I am referring to and in the hopes of Reylo, let me say, I think the connection is entirely in Ben’s court. He is going to have to make himself a man. And I am anxious to see that. Smile
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by motherofpearl1 on Sun 11 Mar 2018, 12:22 am

@Night Huntress wrote:@Riri

yeah, it contains everything I mused about that vision while they're touch hands.
Unfortunately I'm not so good at writing my thoughts down- thank the force for those talented people who put it into words so beautifully.

Some people commented on Tumblr that they think Ben saw something different because he seemed so detached and cool when Rey arrived at the Supremacy. I disagree - my take on his cool almost dismissive behavior is that he needed to shield his thoughts and intent from Snoke and concentrate on coming up with a plan to save them both.

"Because of what I saw, when the moment comes you’ll be the one to turn..." That's not a conclusion he would make if he only saw them fighting the PG. He saw her by his side...and that didn't happened in the throne room. They fought together, yes- but from what both of them said that's NOT what they saw. They saw them being together and that's why both thought the other would turn...because they can't imagine that outcome any other wise.

And it would explain why Kylo/Ben was so hurt and reacted so violently after she left him... she not only turned down his proposal- he shattered whatever dream of a future with them together he possibly had. He thought he was a monster and beyond hope and saving...then Rey gave him hope again, convinced him it's NOT to late just to break him all over again.
@Night Huntress

Beautifully put. Kylo deals with his pain by turning it into rage. He smashed his helmet after Snoke humiliated and degraded him - Snoke's treatment is particularly vicious after reading the part in the novel as he was still in pain from his wounds. The first time you see him Force choke someone (Hux) is after he discovers Rey had left. And his fury with the Resistance at the end is obvious - he's jealous, Rey chose them over him. I actually felt more sympathy for Kylo at the end of TLJ than throughout both films, even before Rey closed the door on him.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 9:37 am

I just had a new realization. I have to admit the reason I started this thread is I wondered if the Force Bond was broken due to the statement that Pablo Hidalgo made.... I am going to give a SPOILER (I hope I am not doing this in error and giving ample warning) FOR THE LAST JEDI NOVELIZATION.




Rey’s quest is for belonging. She is dependent upon her value, her worth, her reflection in her parents and in her lineage. She had a flirtation of wanting intimacy, a taste of that power of belonging through Ben Solo (his bare hand), and fled to go rescue him...only to be offered that relationship with a proposal with Kylo Ren doing the offering with a gloved hand.  If Luke fulfilled his quest of becoming a Jedi like his father, he would become Vader; hence the cave scene and all that implies. Empire leaves Luke, that the DArk Side cave gave the him the harsh truth, for the Dark Sides tells the truth. Kylo Ren gives her the truth that she is a nobody, no one in terms of linerage (and of course, he means it to say that you are everything to me....), but the reason that the connection had to be broken IS.....Rey broke that Force bond for a reason... The Force revealed the truth of her past, so Rey can make amends, embrace her destiny, and start training without a codependent need, without someone validating her worth, she is just fine with Rey as Rey...she doesn’t need a man to show her worth as father or as a lover. She can stand now and start training. She had a taste of power, what it was like to powerful like Kylo and in sync with Kylo during the throne scene. It should go full circle: Kylo arms Rey as he armed her with the saber at the beginning of the fight; the saber ends with her giving him the saber to save him. Rey had to know that Kylo doesn’t determine her worth, that the truth of being trash or a nobody doesn’t make your worth...That need to belonging just like it served the need for Luke to become Vader...for if he did, he would joined the dark side. But Luke merges the skill of the Jedi with the compassionate and merciful understanding of the Light, the Daughter Side of the Force. BOTH are needed. Smile Rey needs training.  She was armed with Ben’s skills; he was armed with the truth of her past. But if she is cut from those skills, she will have to find a teacher and Luke is gone.

 *If she has severed her connection, she has severed herself from the library of Ben’s skill set, so she must seek him to train her. That’s what he has been asking her form the beginning; he wants to train her.

Thoughts?
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Irina de France on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 10:13 am

Guys, I had to go around and edit around a dozen posts because there was a lot of double/triple-posting in this thread. Discussion about the very interesting topic of Force bonds is more than welcome, but please edit your posts rather than making a double/triple post, please. I edited everything, but that takes a lot of time and I won't be doing that next time. Next time, the double/triple posts will simply be deleted. I mean it. Thank you for your collaboration and understanding.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by motherofpearl1 on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 12:04 pm

@Good-olio Raeh wrote:I just had a new realization. I have to admit the reason I started this thread is I wondered if the Force Bond was broken due to the statement that Pablo Hidalgo made.... I am going to give a SPOILER (I hope I am not doing this in error and giving ample warning) FOR THE LAST JEDI NOVELIZATION.




Rey’s quest is for belonging. She is dependent upon her value, her worth, her reflection in her parents and in her lineage. She had a flirtation of wanting intimacy, a taste of that power of belonging through Ben Solo (his bare hand), and fled to go rescue him...only to be offered that relationship with a proposal with Kylo Ren doing the offering with a gloved hand.  If Luke fulfilled his quest of becoming a Jedi like his father, he would become Vader; hence the cave scene and all that implies. Empire leaves Luke, that the DArk Side cave gave the him the harsh truth, for the Dark Sides tells the truth. Kylo Ren gives her the truth that she is a nobody, no one in terms of linerage (and of course, he means it to say that you are everything to me....), but the reason that the connection had to be broken IS.....Rey broke that Force bond for a reason... The Force revealed the truth of her past, so Rey can make amends, embrace her destiny, and start training without a codependent need, without someone validating her worth, she is just fine with Rey as Rey...she doesn’t need a man to show her worth as father or as a lover. She can stand now and start training. She had a taste of power, what it was like to powerful like Kylo and in sync with Kylo during the throne scene. It should go full circle: Kylo arms Rey as he armed her with the saber at the beginning of the fight; the saber ends with her giving him the saber to save him. Rey had to know that Kylo doesn’t determine her worth, that the truth of being trash or a nobody doesn’t make your worth...That need to belonging just like it served the need for Luke to become Vader...for if he did, he would joined the dark side. But Luke merges the skill of the Jedi with the compassionate and merciful understanding of the Light, the Daughter Side of the Force. BOTH are needed. Smile Rey needs training.  She was armed with Ben’s skills; he was armed with the truth of her past. But if she is cut from those skills, she will have to find a teacher and Luke is gone.

 *If she has severed her connection, she has severed herself from the library of Ben’s skill set, so she must seek him to train her. That’s what he has been asking her form the beginning; he wants to train her.

Thoughts?
@Good-olio Raeh

Interesting observation,hopefully that will be a direction they take. I've said this before but.....it really irks me that so many think that in order to be a 'strong woman' Rey has to be alone. You can be strong and capable and still need to be loved. Maybe Rey is capable of looking after herself, but ALL of us need companionship. Rey spent her life without love and affection. No matter how skilled a warrior she is,she will always need to be loved. Just look at Kylo - he is an example of someone who cut all ties because he thought he needed no one and he's the neediest of them all. I got extremely mad at the Mary Sue for wanting this. The young girl dumped by her family ends up.....on her own. Sorry but that is no happy ending for Rey.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 12:16 pm

@motherofpearl1

Yeah, that's extremely annoying. So in order to be a strong woman you can't have feelings, or craving love or wanting belonging?

For some people the term "Strong Women" means basically a toxic stupid male hero-type just with boobs. Rolling Eyes
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 12:46 pm

@motherofpearl1 Yes, I am in that battle right now. Why? I just seem to go to the youtube videos that get me hooked. It is my problem, but it seems like I am having a good conversation, and it just turns to something really twisted in these Mary Sue/ Force Bond discussions.

I keep asserting to these guys that Rey has a different arc than a traditional arc in Star Wars, that the goal is to be a Jedi and the means to the goal is training is not her main quest. Her goal is to belong and the means is to get someone back....it is a mission quest that she is fuffilling through intimacy and her dilemma is that intimacy never stays but comes and goes....  It is the princess story really of the fairy tale, of my life’s call is to belong and my strength runs in the compassion of that belonging...Like a play on Beauty and the Beast.  And yet Rey is so physically strong. This is something different that we have never seen; this is the first time a girl’s story in Star Wars is told from a girl’s perspective of that galaxy and her place in it. With Ashoka, Leia, Padme, etc...all these woman were written from a male character’s perspective and how she relates and influences them... They are so fixed with the template; that they don’t understand the template is the male’s where the body before them is a female’s not a male’s....completely human like him, but different organis and mixing of chemicals, different levels of caloric intake, etc, and they... I am sure you get the picture. Smile

@nighthuntress Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that wanting belonging and a place, wanting a relationship is bad. I am saying that usually in order to have a mature relationship, you must accept yourself first. Focus on Rey, and how she made it...not her parents. She forged her story herself. To me, the fact she lost all compasssion on Kylo Ren is an alarm. That’s against being a Jedi, and order for her to be a Jedi...compassion must remain. And perhaps, Kylo can show that to her. Those puppy dog eyes he gave her are very sympathetic. LOL But the connection to his skill set, the break of that, well, I think that will help her, for nowshe must go to him so that he can teach her and show her her belonging. Smile


Last edited by Good-olio Raeh on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 2:36 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Responding to other comment, I missed)
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by snufkin on Mon 12 Mar 2018, 12:52 pm

Might be time to revisit this discussion from the Archives.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Lamiller1390 on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 3:34 pm

Okay, having just listened to the Novelization myself I have to say I am both confused and encouraged by their relationship going forward. On the one hand she says she will wait for me, be patient because she knows he will turn towards the light, he is just not ready. But on the other... she closes the bond. Maybe that is some tough love.

Like a parent does with a child who ROYALLY screws up. Take away the most important thing to them and hope they reflect on their foolishness and change there ways.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Wed 14 Mar 2018, 7:49 pm

@Lamiller1390 wrote:Okay, having just listened to the Novelization myself I have to say I am both confused and encouraged by their relationship going forward. On the one hand she says she will wait for me, be patient because she knows he will turn towards the light, he is just not ready. But on the other... she closes the bond. Maybe that is some tough love.

Like a parent does with a child who ROYALLY screws up. Take away the most important thing to them and hope they reflect on their foolishness and change there ways.
@Lamiller1390

Right, sex is a great motivator and the intimacy they shared so powerful...it was teh first time he had tears in his eyes...when he looked down on those dice. Tears for her....and the devastation of the symbolic dice. He has been kicked of the family ship...out of the home. But just as it was for Darcy, his understand that he wasn’t the gentlemen (leader) he thought he was...perhaps he will just have to go and make himself a man and prove it our Rey Bennet. Smile I am so excited!!!!! Heads will roll for her in a PG-13 sense!
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by motherofpearl1 on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 2:09 am

Perhaps they need to be worthy of each other.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Thu 15 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Perhaps they need to be worthy of each other.
@motherofpearl1
Love makes slaves us all.
But It is a happy taming...like the fox and the Prince in The Little Prince. A wild thing (or two wild things) who wish to have a relationship/intimacy because they are loners in the universe. The fox hates to be trapped, but he is lonely and is attracted to the Prince’s heart and innocence. So he wants to feel “tammed” as in “safe” being by his friend’s side. I want to stay instead of my natural response to my oppostite, to flee or fight you. Smile

Love makes the tyrant into a gentlemen, and the commoner into the princess. Smile
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 10:06 am

he can not stay a child forever even in his kingdom, Rey is teaching him a lesson in life now it remains to kylo accept it and change
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by Good-olio Raeh on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 10:20 am

@Teo oswald wrote:he can not stay a child forever even in his kingdom, Rey is teaching him a lesson in life now it remains to kylo accept it and change
@Teo oswald

I agree! It is the makings of a man, maturing the little boy, with he fire of passion. Hehe.  You know how Narsil was reformed in the fires.  I think the Skywalker legacy will be reforged in the passion (compassion burning) within Ben Solo. He will resurrect from that tomb.  For love will not suffer at the hands of death. I think he will be Rey’s Kinsman Redeemer and Blood Avenger...found in the book of Ruth (Bible). You family is my family; I will avenge them.  Her love for what he casts aside will be forged anew, ending in the Skywalker line guaranteed in future generations.
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Re: The Force Bond IS NOT CLOSED!

Post by motherofpearl1 on Fri 16 Mar 2018, 10:47 am

Either that or it
@Lamiller1390 wrote:Okay, having just listened to the Novelization myself I have to say I am both confused and encouraged by their relationship going forward. On the one hand she says she will wait for me, be patient because she knows he will turn towards the light, he is just not ready. But on the other... she closes the bond. Maybe that is some tough love.

Like a parent does with a child who ROYALLY screws up. Take away the most important thing to them and hope they reflect on their foolishness and change there ways.
@Lamiller1390

Unfortunately in Bens case it was his parents who royally screwed up. Confirmed in the novel.
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