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Post by grimbergen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 6:49 am

@rey09 wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:What I really hate is that people think they need to protect (and judge!) girls and women from what they should or shouldn't like in fiction!

Why don't they judge boys and men for their misogynist fantasies they all have without doubt? Because it's normal? You can fantasize about all sick and bad sh*** if you're male. But the force forbid you have a sex drive or a dirty mind if you're female!

We all have to be pure and chaste never think about sex at all or enjoy it- in the best case only have it to reproduce... and never ever like a male character if he isn't perfect parents-in-law material. He can't have real flaws otherwise if we like him WE are sick and need help and be protected from ourselves... L-puke

Sorry- I can't believe we still have this conversation in 2018...

By the way- I have the feeling it's much more louder in the US? Where people are still all ok to show violence on screen, let their kids shoot with automatic firearms in their back-lawn but want them to keep their virginity till marriage... Rolling Eyes
@Night Huntress

I was seeing comments about the Shape of Water, some people complaining "oh she didn't need to have sex with the fish man, you can have love without it!" and I'm like wait.....this woman is a fully grown woman who is quite lonely, feels ostracized in society, and they make a point to show she craves sexual intimacy as she touches herself every morning, so wtf?! Of course she would be with the man she's fallen in love with. How could she settle for any less?
@rey09

I've seen the "The Shape of Water" and the sex scene is beautiful to me, none of that is ugly or vulgar.
People do not understand it and they see it ugly and unpleasant just as they will look something wrong with Rey and  "The Monster" (Ben).


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Post by rey09 on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 6:50 am

@Night Huntress wrote:
@rey09 wrote:
@Night Huntress

I was seeing comments about the Shape of Water, some people complaining "oh she didn't need to have sex with the fish man, you can have love without it!" and I'm like wait.....this woman is a fully grown woman who is quite lonely, feels ostracized in society, and they make a point to show she craves sexual intimacy as she touches herself every morning, so wtf?! Of course she would be with the man she's fallen in love with. How could she settle for any less?
@rey09

I haven't seen Shape of Water but I read some of the discussions about it on social media und seen a few clips.
Actually it's a good example because I won't lie... this isn't really my cup of tea-  I'm even a bit grossed out  WTH
BUT I would never judge anyone who enjoyed that movie or the dynamic between the characters... it's fiction!
You can say the fishman is a meta for anyone who isn't an average person.

Don't like it- don't see it... it's that easy. Nope

@Night Huntress

I'm also not personally into it lol but I get why it had to happen for her. And people seem to miss the point- it's what SHE has always wanted as she's always been alone. Also the way the fish man is sculpted...like yea she was def gonna bang him lmao, he has a very masculine physique

@grimbergen Yes I agree, and after learning more about Ben's past via the books, he's been trapped into his this "monster" label very much like the fish man stuck in his tank. And Rey is the girl, handing him the apple for whatever it was.

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Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:21 am

@special_cases wrote:This quote from Daisy is quite strange. The first draft of episode 8? Treatment for episode 9? First time someone mentioned it. Rian said he read GL treatments and TFA script.

Tbh the whole interview is strange.
@special_cases

I find it odd too. I believe she's right when she says there is a general consensus on the trilogy and that each director is given free reign to interpret their vision (RJ was definitely given a lot of leeway to execute his vision by KK and others, to the extent that he's been entrusted with an entire trilogy of his own) as long as it adheres to the consensus. But the idea of JJ writing treatments for VIII and IX I find very strange. For one, it's common knowledge that JJ was on a very tight schedule when writing/directing TFA so I don't know where he would have gotten the time to write treatments for VIII and IX. Rian was also writing TLJ while TFA was filming so there is an overlap there too. I think Rian would have said something about this by now as he's been very forthcoming/honest and detailed about his writing process. Maybe it was a translation issue? Who knows.

@SoloSideCousin It's ironic that the antis claim to be progressive when they are the ones arguing for censorship of fiction which sounds dangerously conservative and like you said, something totalitarian regimes engage in.


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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:36 am

@Kylo Rey
It's always possible Daisy is simply wrong about the treatments and is potentially even confusing writers. She did say "I think" and "I believe" several times, but either way it's kind of a non-story because even if JJ potentially wrote down some of his ideas for VIII and IX they still would have followed the overall themes I do believe they have outlined (namely Reylo and Kylo's three-movie redemption story).
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Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:40 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:@Kylo Rey
It's always possible Daisy is simply wrong about the treatments and is potentially even confusing writers. She did say "I think" and "I believe" several times, but either way it's kind of a non-story because even if JJ potentially wrote down some of his ideas for VIII and IX they still would have followed the overall themes I do believe they have outlined (namely Reylo and Kylo's three-movie redemption story).
@FrolickingFizzgig

True. She does say "I think I know." She also acknowledges she isn't a screenwriter or director so it isn't too surprising if she was showing a lack of knowledge about the process.
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Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:53 am

@Night Huntress wrote:What I really hate is that people think they need to protect (and judge!) girls and women from what they should or shouldn't like in fiction!

Why don't they judge boys and men for their misogynist fantasies they all have without doubt? Because it's normal? You can fantasize about all sick and bad sh*** if you're male. But the force forbid you have a sex drive or a dirty mind if you're female!

We all have to be pure and chaste never think about sex at all or enjoy it- in the best case only have it to reproduce... and never ever like a male character if he isn't perfect parents-in-law material. He can't have real flaws otherwise if we like him WE are sick and need help and be protected from ourselves... L-puke

Sorry- I can't believe we still have this conversation in 2018...

By the way- I have the feeling it's much more louder in the US? Where people are still all ok to show violence on screen, let their kids shoot with automatic firearms in their back-lawn but want them to keep their virginity till marriage... Rolling Eyes
@Night Huntress

Hold up a sec on that, because people are now blaming mass shootings on violence in media, lol. I've been seeing/hearing this argument a lot all of a sudden. Anything to take the blame off the fact that people in the U.S. can get a hold of assault weapons too easily. Violent games and movies are popular in countries all over the world, but the rest of them aren't shooting up school children on a regular basis.

The protection of young women and their innocence in this country is over the top, in my opinion. "Boys will be boys," but "My daughter's not allowed to date until she's 30!" It drives me mad.

And yes. Fictional bad boys are great because they're nothing like actual bad boys. Let us enjoy Razz
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 10:04 am

Oh yeah, that "violence in movies, tv shows and games begets violence in real life" bulls*** has been around for a very long time. The funny thing is people spouting this believe they're being super original and perceptive while in reality they're just taking a hand out an ancient playbook and scapegoating something (video games in particular) in order to ignore legitimate societal problems. Blame it on FPS games like Call of Duty and Halo! That's gotta be the reason gun violence has gone up. It has nothing to do with how easy firearms are to obtain regardless of age and background. It's all because of the fiction consumed by the youths of 'Murica. Funny because for all the people supposedly influenced negatively by games I bet there are hundreds of thousands more who managed to meet people online and forge long-distance friendships that helped them overcome bullying and loneliness in high school. It's just such an easy way to pinpoint a potential non-problem that everyone will knows will never, every be regulated in order to avoid regulating firearms the way many other countries have for decades.

This pisses me off a lot because if there's any art form that will be remembered and praised from the past 30 years it's video games. A combination of the auditory, visual and narrative elements of a film and interactive elements. It's pretty fascinating.
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Post by orangedelamer on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 10:30 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
And yes. Fictional bad boys are great because they're nothing like actual bad boys. Let us enjoy Razz
@Cowgirlsamurai

That's what I was going to say. Real life bad boys are not at all like Kylo Ren. They are the kind of men who beats their partner or belittles her or cheats on her but fake being respectful to her when other people are present. This is the definition of an abusive man. Kylo/Ben is not like this towards Rey at all.


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Post by Darth Dementor on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 10:31 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Oh yeah, that "violence in movies, tv shows and games begets violence in real life" bulls*** has been around for a very long time. The funny thing is people spouting this believe they're being super original and perceptive while in reality they're just taking a hand out an ancient playbook and scapegoating something (video games in particular) in order to ignore legitimate societal problems. Blame it on FPS games like Call of Duty and Halo! That's gotta be the reason gun violence has gone up. It has nothing to do with how easy firearms are to obtain regardless of age and background. It's all because of the fiction consumed by the youths of 'Murica. Funny because for all the people supposedly influenced negatively by games I bet there are hundreds of thousands more who managed to meet people online and forge long-distance friendships that helped them overcome bullying and loneliness in high school. It's just such an easy way to pinpoint a potential non-problem that everyone will knows will never, every be regulated in order to avoid regulating firearms the way many other countries have for decades.

This pisses me off a lot because if there's any art form that will be remembered and praised from the past 30 years it's video games. A combination of the auditory, visual and narrative elements of a film and interactive elements. It's pretty fascinating.
@FrolickingFizzgig

Traditionally people who use that argument against something are just strawmaning to get what they want.  As soon as a movie, book, or video game they like is blamed for inspiring violence, in any way, they will be the first to say "it's just a form of entertainment.  You can't hold it responsible for someone else's actions!"

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Post by Darth_Awakened on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:17 am

Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - Page 22 2018-016

Razz
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Post by Night Huntress on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:21 am

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
@Night Huntress
Hold up a sec on that, because people are now blaming mass shootings on violence in media, lol. I've been seeing/hearing this argument a lot all of a sudden. Anything to take the blame off the fact that people in the U.S. can get a hold of assault weapons too easily. Violent games and movies are popular in countries all over the world, but the rest of them aren't shooting up school children on a regular basis.

No no, that's not what I meant at all. I just wanted to compare violence and sensuality in movies to show how hypocrite it is... they flip out over a woman's bar nipple but it's ok to let their small children shoot with automatic firearms (I mean literally in real life- not video games).
And also- it's a big difference how you handle that. I live in Switzerland many people here are owning weapons but for a totally different reason.
It's not because they want to protect themselves from burglars or whatever. Mostly they keep it after the military (Switzerland still has army duty). And they go to a shooting range for practice and it's a sport- it's not allowed to just go outside somewhere and shoot at objects for example.

The big difference I see to the US ist that weapons aren't glorified here. You have to arm yourself to protect your lawn and family. Sorry, but that's just dump! Like now they want to arm teachers? *facepalm*

OK, we getting way to much political here- but I had the impression TLJ was totally meta for that issue as well.

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
The protection of young women and their innocence in this country is over the top, in my opinion. "Boys will be boys," but "My daughter's not allowed to date until she's 30!" It drives me mad.

And yes. Fictional bad boys are great because they're nothing like actual bad boys. Let us enjoy Razz
@Cowgirlsamurai

Yeah, that's what I mean and don't get. I'm also a bit irritate with the SW franchise for sticking to that purity obsession so strictly.
I get it - it's a fairy-tale, but it's time to reform those old-fashioned morals in my opinion.
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Post by Piper Maru on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:26 am

@Darth_Awakened

HAHAH WOW

Subletly went out of the window.
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:32 am

@orangedelamer wrote:
@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:
And yes. Fictional bad boys are great because they're nothing like actual bad boys. Let us enjoy Razz
@Cowgirlsamurai

That's what I was going to say. Real life bad boys are not at all like Kylo Ren. They are the kind of men who beats their partner or belittles her or cheats on her but fake being respectful to her when other people are present. This is the definition of an abusive man. Kylo/Ben is not like this towards Rey at all.
@orangedelamer

Also, the point of fictional bad boys is that it's supposed to be idealized. When you "change" a real life bad boy, you often have to question if they really changed. In fiction, if they tell you they changed, they've changed. They have no agency of their own, they're written. Unless the story is specifically about a bad boy who pretends to change but doesn't. In which case it's a narrative pearl-clutchers should be fine with because it isn't portrayed as a good thing.

If Kylo changes himself through a redemption arc and chooses to be with Rey, you can trust that the change is real and he'll never hurt her.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:37 am

@Darth_Awakened
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Jason Reylo Fry.

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Post by ZioRen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:39 am

Antis: "'The same, I'd hope' means 'not at all' because they HATE each other!"
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:42 am

@ZioRen wrote:Antis: "'The same, I'd hope' means 'not at all' because they HATE each other!"
@ZioRen
Wish I could say this isn't exactly how they're going to spin it!
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:44 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@ZioRen wrote:Antis: "'The same, I'd hope' means 'not at all' because they HATE each other!"
@ZioRen
Wish I could say this isn't exactly how they're going to spin it!
@FrolickingFizzgig

Oh they will. And it was a smart way for Fry to answer that question because it can be interpreted like that. You know, if you squint and are in denial about what's on screen.
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Post by snufkin on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 11:50 am

Oh so the novel emphasizes her intense platonic feelings for him? Like how you’d feel about a roommate? That’s what was in the movie, right (sorry, the sarcasm in response to the argument is my current favorite joke).

RE - the Page Tweet, she’s such a great writer/thinker and way deserving of more attention and gigs versus anything Alexandra Petri or Joanna Robinson have written about TLJ. Page is f@@king brilliant and thoughtful and funny/smart about using social media in a way that goes beyond memes or sh@tposting.
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Post by Riri on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 12:24 pm

Jason Fry
"My mentions, sheesh. I wouldn't focus on "love" -- HSD said that, not me -- but on "the same." As in, the movie and the novelization are the same story. (BTW, HanSolosDice = fabulous Twitter handle.)"

Ok hes doing damage control ahahaha

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Post by ZioRen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 1:04 pm

@Riri wrote:Jason Fry
"My mentions, sheesh. I wouldn't focus on "love" -- HSD said that, not me -- but on "the same." As in, the movie and the novelization are the same story. (BTW, HanSolosDice = fabulous Twitter handle.)"

Ok hes doing damage control ahahaha
@Riri

Lol yeah okay bro. He SO didn't have to respond at all to the tweet with that specific wording. I'm sure plenty of people are asking if everything in the book is the same tone as the movie.
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Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 1:12 pm

"Sheesh" = he got Claudia Grey'd by antis.  Laughing

I can't even call that damage control. He just repeated what he said the first time ("it's the same as the movie").
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Post by vaderito on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 1:34 pm

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Post by MindAndMagic on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 2:34 pm

The moment he said "It's true. All of it." in TFA, it was obvious how much fatherhood had transformed him. That was a different Han. One who truly believed in the Force. I'm gonna see Solo for the dice alone. Those moments are precious. H-beating
Discussions: Tweets/Instagram - Page 22 Screen46
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Yes, he still is. Wink Can't wait for their conversation in IX (which I presume we will get because, boy, are there things left unsaid." EDIT: I'm just now realizing I misread that as "uncle Luke".
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Rey and Kylo are so cute with the little guards. Those cute, little guards. *cue vicious slashing sounds*  Twisted Evil
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Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 2:39 pm

@MindAndMagic wrote:The moment he said "It's true. All of it." in TFA, it was obvious fatherhood how much had transformed him.Those moments are precious. H-beating
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I'm gonna see Solo for the dice alone.

Rey and Kylo are so cute with the little guards. Those cute, little guards. *cue viscous slashing sounds*  Twisted Evil
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@MindAndMagic

O.M.G. This Han Solo book is going to kill me. :-(
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Post by ZioRen on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 2:59 pm

I didn't need these Honey Nut Feel-ios today. That book is going to wreck me. Also, I love how they know baby Kylo is a hype point and advertise using it. Laughing B-but he's ebil!
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