Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

by SoloSideCousin on Tue 15 May 2018, 12:06 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Can I just say here - we need more people to appreciate Rose. Because she is to me the beating heart of this trilogy. This is the girl who has lost her entire family yet her love for them and the love she received from them stops her from becoming bitter and twisted. This is the girl who thinks saving abused animals is worth her life. This is the girl who believes that love is stronger than hate. If Kylo is forgiven, the first to forgive him will be Rose. If anyone will practically shove our star crossed lovers together, it will be Rose Tico.

@motherofpearl1

I actually hope that they write in some Rose and Ben interaction. Those two could be funny together. He towering over her in his intimidating black clothes and she not giving a damn and saying whatever she pleases. :-)

by DeeBee on Tue 15 May 2018, 4:09 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Can I just say here - we need more people to appreciate Rose. Because she is to me the beating heart of this trilogy. This is the girl who has lost her entire family yet her love for them and the love she received from them stops her from becoming bitter and twisted. This is the girl who thinks saving abused animals is worth her life. This is the girl who believes that love is stronger than hate. If Kylo is forgiven, the first to forgive him will be Rose. If anyone will practically shove our star crossed lovers together, it will be Rose Tico.
@motherofpearl1

I've gotta run, but just wanted to say Yes!!!!! I'd love to look more at Rose - I'm up for this conversation! Maybe we could start a Rose thread in the IX section - it would be great to look more closely at her in TLJ and what's potentially in store for her in IX.
If no one else gets to it before I do I'll start one. See you there motherof pearl1 haaa

@DeeBee

Hello again!
I've found there is an existing Finn and Rose thread in the IX section, maybe that's a place to discuss Rose?
Here's the link: http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t503-finn-and-rose-the-stormrose-thread
I'll get over there to comment as soon as I can. LOL hopefully before IX opens in theatres haaaaa..

by motherofpearl1 on Tue 15 May 2018, 5:57 am

@DeeBee wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Can I just say here - we need more people to appreciate Rose. Because she is to me the beating heart of this trilogy. This is the girl who has lost her entire family yet her love for them and the love she received from them stops her from becoming bitter and twisted. This is the girl who thinks saving abused animals is worth her life. This is the girl who believes that love is stronger than hate. If Kylo is forgiven, the first to forgive him will be Rose. If anyone will practically shove our star crossed lovers together, it will be Rose Tico.
@motherofpearl1

I've gotta run, but just wanted to say Yes!!!!! I'd love to look more at Rose - I'm up for this conversation! Maybe we could start a Rose thread in the IX section - it would be great to look more closely at her in TLJ and what's potentially in store for her in IX.
If no one else gets to it before I do I'll start one. See you there motherof pearl1 haaa
@DeeBee

Hello again!
I've found there is an existing Finn and Rose thread in the IX section, maybe that's a place to discuss Rose?
Here's the link: http://www.reyloskyforum.net/t503-finn-and-rose-the-stormrose-thread
I'll get over there to comment as soon as I can. LOL hopefully before IX opens in theatres haaaaa..

@DeeBee

Thanks!!

by DeeBee on Thu 17 May 2018, 6:19 pm

hiya, I've been sharing a few databank updates across a few threads - so kind of Star wars to update when I had a morning off haaaa..
(See Kylo/Ben thread, Snoke Thread, Rey thread (in IX section), Luke thread and Finn thread)
Thought I'd share this update to Finn's entry here.. as I'm curious what you all make of it and what it means for Phasma- and will she be back in IX?
there's this in Finn's bio gallery:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/finn-biography-gallery
I found it curious how it doesn't say Phasma was killed..
I checked her entries on the databank and there are a couple of mentions how she 'fell in battle' - is that her literal fall? or her death??!!! whooooo what do you guys make of this?

So far Phasma's main page has been updated but not her gallery. will be interesting to see if they continue with this vague language!

by SoloSideCousin on Thu 17 May 2018, 6:43 pm

@DeeBee wrote:hiya, I've been sharing a few databank updates across a few threads - so kind of Star wars to update when I had a morning off haaaa..
(See Kylo/Ben thread, Snoke Thread, Rey thread (in IX section), Luke thread and Finn thread)
Thought I'd share this update to Finn's entry here.. as I'm curious what you all make of it and what it means for Phasma- and will she be back in IX?
there's this in Finn's bio gallery:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/finn-biography-gallery
I found it curious how it doesn't say Phasma was killed..
I checked her entries on the databank and there are a couple of mentions how she 'fell in battle' - is that her literal fall? or her death??!!! whooooo what do you guys make of this?

So far Phasma's main page has been updated but not her gallery. will be interesting to see if they continue with this vague language!

@DeeBee

I think it is very possible that Phasma is not dead actually. Like RJ said, she's the "Kenny" of the SW. (Kenny often dies in South Park, but then turns up alive in the next episode like nothing eve happened).

Her armor is made from the emperor's ship, so it should be able to stand a lot. She's a tough b**** with cool styling. I think LF likes Gwen. She had two lines in TLJ. Hux needs a partner when he tries to take down Ben.

So there's room for her to be there. She'll have three lines, a jacked up eye and may end up being taken out by Ben or by Finn, perhaps even saving Ben's life, lol. It's gonna be all crazy, lol.

by nickandnora on Thu 17 May 2018, 6:45 pm

@DeeBee

Immediately after TLJ I was of the opinion that Phasma was dead, but now I've kind of come around to "No she's alive, just BBQ'ed like Anakin." My current working theory is that Hux is keeping her alive.

by bashfulblueeyes3 on Thu 17 May 2018, 9:07 pm

I hope she is alive and is given more to do.

by DeeBee on Thu 17 May 2018, 9:56 pm

Hi Everyone, Just wanted to mention the starwars databank has done a maaaajor update today - now updated for TLJ content (main entries and biography galleries) for the following characters: Finn, Rose, Poe, Hux, Leia, Luke (again), Snoke (again).. as well as Rey and Kylo (already mentioned in other threads). Happy days! bye!

edited to add: Phasma too!

edited to add 2:
@SoloSideCousin @nickandnora @bashfulblueeyes3 - Yeah I agree with you guys. We didn't have to wait long for Phasma's databank entry to get updated.. here is the gallery slide covering her fate:

source: https://www.starwars.com/databank/captain-phasma-biography-gallery
-she doesn't sound dead! lol!

by motherofpearl1 on Fri 18 May 2018, 12:24 am

I have a very strong feeling she is going to be back. In fact, I think it was the reason they changed her confrontation scene with Finn - she very obviously bought the farm in the original scene but the replacement is far more ambiguous. As SoloSideCousin said, her armour is made from a ship's hull, we already saw it deflect laser fire so I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised to see her return, and with a bigger role. She is after all SW's first major female villain and Gwen's a terrific actress.

by Night Huntress on Fri 18 May 2018, 1:04 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:I have a very strong feeling she is going to be back. In fact, I think it was the reason they changed her confrontation scene with Finn - she very obviously bought the farm in the original scene but the replacement is far more ambiguous. As SoloSideCousin said, her armour is made from a ship's hull, we already saw it deflect laser fire so I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised to see her return, and with a bigger role. She is after all SW's first major female villain and Gwen's a terrific actress.

@motherofpearl1

I don't care to be honest- I would be glad for Gwendolyn Christi because I love her...but there're so many more interesting characters and stories to tell in IX than Phasma. Rolling Eyes

by Starliteprism on Sat 19 May 2018, 5:55 pm

I had a look to see where best to post this, general discussion seems kosher enough, but just wanted to share as this is a beautiful way to piece the Rey and Kylo scenes together. To me, it makes me focus enough more on the facial expressions and how magnetic Daisy and Adam are with each other on screen.

Creator is Shippingdelights on Tumblr.

https://vt.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_p5mjx8zkRA1rywyrz.mp4

by motherofpearl1 on Fri 25 May 2018, 12:08 am

Just found this on the Guardian website: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/24/every-star-wars-film-ranked-solo-skywalker#comment-116202434

by DeeBee on Fri 25 May 2018, 7:16 pm

Hi All,
just noticed this new entry on the star wars databank:

In TLJ novelisation we learned Ben loved these dice.. but the novelisation also said Han used the dice to win the MF....
"Ben as a toddler, forever following Han. Carrying the dice from the Millennium Falcon—the ones his father had used to win the beloved, battered freighter—and promising anyone who’d listen that one day he would be a pilot, too, like his daddy." (page 87)

Spoiler:Dice in Solo....:: When Han won the falcon in Solo - he didn't use his dice. I guess the Solo movie is higher in canon heirarchy and overrides TLJ novelisation. I can usually find a way that two different facts combined can be true. but ummm I can't find a way for Han to win the MF using the dice when we saw him win it playing cards with no dice? Or did I miss something? that's always possible Seems the databank walks this novelisation perspective back..

by 12 Parsnips on Fri 25 May 2018, 9:45 pm

@DeeBee wrote:Hi All,
just noticed this new entry on the star wars databank:

In TLJ novelisation we learned Ben loved these dice.. but the novelisation also said Han used the dice to win the MF....
"Ben as a toddler, forever following Han. Carrying the dice from the Millennium Falcon—the ones his father had used to win the beloved, battered freighter—and promising anyone who’d listen that one day he would be a pilot, too, like his daddy." (page 87)
Spoiler:
When Han won the falcon in Solo - he didn't use his dice. I guess the Solo movie is higher in canon heirarchy and overrides TLJ novelisation. I can usually find a way that two different facts combined can be true. but ummm I can't find a way for Han to win the MF using the dice when we saw him win it playing cards with no dice? Or did I miss something? that's always possible Seems the databank walks this novelisation perspective back..

@DeeBee

Solo spoiler:: Han couldn't ever have used them in the sense of playing a dice game, because he won the Falcon playing sabaac, a card game. (Wasn't that always the story in Legends? I didn't read the line from the TLJ novelization as changing anything...) Instead he kind of "uses" them as a good luck charm, or a symbol of hope, in the movie. Must have worked, since he won.

by DeeBee on Sat 26 May 2018, 7:10 pm

@12 Parsnips wrote:
@DeeBee wrote:Hi All,
just noticed this new entry on the star wars databank:

In TLJ novelisation we learned Ben loved these dice.. but the novelisation also said Han used the dice to win the MF....
"Ben as a toddler, forever following Han. Carrying the dice from the Millennium Falcon—the ones his father had used to win the beloved, battered freighter—and promising anyone who’d listen that one day he would be a pilot, too, like his daddy." (page 87)
Spoiler:
When Han won the falcon in Solo - he didn't use his dice. I guess the Solo movie is higher in canon heirarchy and overrides TLJ novelisation. I can usually find a way that two different facts combined can be true. but ummm I can't find a way for Han to win the MF using the dice when we saw him win it playing cards with no dice? Or did I miss something? that's always possible Seems the databank walks this novelisation perspective back..
@DeeBee

Solo spoiler:
Han couldn't ever have used them in the sense of playing a dice game, because he won the Falcon playing sabaac, a card game. (Wasn't that always the story in Legends? I didn't read the line from the TLJ novelization as changing anything...) Instead he kind of "uses" them as a good luck charm, or a symbol of hope, in the movie. Must have worked, since he won.

@12 Parsnips

Haaaa nice one!
What was it that Han said in ANH?
Han: Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster and lucky gold dice at your side, kid.
Luke: You don’t believe in the Force, do you?
Han: Kid, I’ve flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I’ve seen a lot of strange stuff, but I’ve never seen anything to make me believe there’s one all-powerful Force controlling everything. There’s no mystical energy field that controls my destiny! It’s all a lot of good luck (thanks to my gold lucky dice), simple tricks and nonsense.

That's what he said isn't it?! Laughing

Han doesn't need the force, he has lucky gold dice! This is the origin of the church of the lucky gold dice no?

by Cowgirlsamurai on Sat 26 May 2018, 7:32 pm

I’ve actually seen people criticizing the “overuse” of the dice in the film, and I’m like, “They legit made me cry.” Nope

Ah, well, to each his own. I guess the dice mean the most to Kylo stans.

by 12 Parsnips on Sat 26 May 2018, 8:28 pm

@DeeBee

Yep, everybody has something they hold onto for courage/hope/strength/luck/meaning to life. Sometimes it's a good blaster but with a secret set of dice on the side. Razz

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:I’ve actually seen people criticizing the “overuse” of the dice in the film, and I’m like, “They legit made me cry.” Ah, well, to each his own. I guess the dice mean the most to Kylo stans.

@Cowgirlsamurai

For as much as we hear about SW being about hope, having an actual tangible symbol of hope (because this is what it seems to mean to Han and Qi'ra) used in the movie just makes sense.

Back in '77 in ANH they were just a cooler space substitute for the lucky fuzzy dice people used to hang from the rearview mirrors of their cars. How far we've come! lol!

by motherofpearl1 on Tue 29 May 2018, 12:28 am

Rewatching TFA recently and something struck me.....Kylo referring to Han, Chewie and Finn as 'murderers, traitors and thieves that you call friends.'
It actually explains his indifference to the plight of the Resistance just before his awkward proposal to Rey...
He really did see the Resistance as scum, from his point of view they were terrorists, he wasn't being intentionally cruel just then.

by SoloSideCousin on Tue 29 May 2018, 1:41 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Rewatching TFA recently and something struck me.....Kylo referring to Han, Chewie and Finn as 'murderers, traitors and thieves that you call friends.'
It actually explains his indifference to the plight of the Resistance just before his awkward proposal to Rey...
He really did see the Resistance as scum, from his point of view they were terrorists, he wasn't being intentionally cruel just then.

@motherofpearl1

Oh yeah, Kylo totally thinks that the Resistance are a bunch of terrorists.

by motherofpearl1 on Tue 29 May 2018, 2:42 am

Something else.....Oscar Isaac said the difference between 'rebellion' and 'resistance' is the latter is more like people defending themselves against aggressors while the former could be either that, or the rebels themselves might BE the aggressors....during WW2 partisans were called the Resistance. But towards the end of TLJ both Finn and Holdo referred to themselves as 'rebels'. I wonder if IX will see the Resistance take on a more antagonistic attitude?

by DeeBee on Tue 29 May 2018, 7:00 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Something else.....Oscar Isaac said the difference between 'rebellion' and 'resistance' is the latter is more like people defending themselves against aggressors while the former could be either that, or the rebels themselves might BE the aggressors....during WW2 partisans were called the Resistance. But towards the end of TLJ both Finn and Holdo referred to themselves as 'rebels'. I wonder if IX will see the Resistance take on a more antagonistic attitude?

@motherofpearl1

Hi motherofpearl1, I am find this interesting too!! There is discussion about this in the resistance/rebellion thread - would love to hear your thoughts on what others have said about this if you'd like to share. I prefer the sounds of rebels to resistance anyday. lol. funny that we got a tv series called rebels and we are about to get a tv series called resistance. I do love that TLJ has given us so much to chew over for 2 years- happy times!

by Dar-ren19 on Wed 30 May 2018, 6:56 am

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Just found this on the Guardian website: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/24/every-star-wars-film-ranked-solo-skywalker#comment-116202434

Thanks @motherofpearl1 for this. I was reading through and not happy with the list, but some of the comments are funny. And then I found this comment... it's the Guardian's pick... look at what it says (and this is the reason I'm a bit worried about JJ and IX... hoping for the best, though):
--

jackbauersadface tinoflyer
6d ago
Guardian Pick
48 49

I thought The Last Jedi was phenomenal, easily the best SW film outside the original trilogy and probably the best film I've seen this decade.
It was tense, exciting, Luke was amazing in it, that ending was fantastic "see you around kid", I was punching the air in joy when Luke said that.
Yoda! , that Yoda scene was incredible.
I was shocked by the negative reactions by some of the SW fanbase, I'm a big fan of the original trilogy and to me TLJ felt more like them then any other SW film.

The Force Awakens was alright but it was just fan service and the films structure is literally - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, big ending that's a quarter to a third of the films total run time. Et Voila !!!

by californiagirl on Wed 30 May 2018, 12:16 pm

@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Just found this on the Guardian website: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/24/every-star-wars-film-ranked-solo-skywalker#comment-116202434

Thanks @motherofpearl1 for this. I was reading through and not happy with the list, but some of the comments are funny. And then I found this comment... it's the Guardian's pick... look at what it says (and this is the reason I'm a bit worried about JJ and IX... hoping for the best, though):
--

jackbauersadface tinoflyer
6d ago
Guardian Pick
48 49

I thought The Last Jedi was phenomenal, easily the best SW film outside the original trilogy and probably the best film I've seen this decade.
It was tense, exciting, Luke was amazing in it, that ending was fantastic "see you around kid", I was punching the air in joy when Luke said that.
Yoda! , that Yoda scene was incredible.
I was shocked by the negative reactions by some of the SW fanbase, I'm a big fan of the original trilogy and to me TLJ felt more like them then any other SW film.

The Force Awakens was alright but it was just fan service and the films structure is literally - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, big ending that's a quarter to a third of the films total run time. Et Voila !!!

@Dar-ren19

I wouldn't worry too much. TFA was very explicitly designed to make people feel like it was the OT, and also just good, again. The prequels had burned many, so it had been over 30 years since there had been a well-liked SW movie. It was really just to get the ball rolling again. JJ got a ton of flack for being safe and making a mostly straightforward adventure movie, and he seems aware of it too.

Early word indicates he doesn't care about the reaction to TLJ. Not surprising considering he loved the TLJ script and said he wished he could have directed it. Well, now he's basically getting his chance. I expect to start hearing more from him soon, now that Solo is out and IX is the next SW movie on the slate.

by Kylo Rey on Wed 30 May 2018, 12:50 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@Dar-ren19 wrote:
@motherofpearl1 wrote:Just found this on the Guardian website: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/may/24/every-star-wars-film-ranked-solo-skywalker#comment-116202434

Thanks @motherofpearl1 for this. I was reading through and not happy with the list, but some of the comments are funny. And then I found this comment... it's the Guardian's pick... look at what it says (and this is the reason I'm a bit worried about JJ and IX... hoping for the best, though):
--

jackbauersadface tinoflyer
6d ago
Guardian Pick
48 49

I thought The Last Jedi was phenomenal, easily the best SW film outside the original trilogy and probably the best film I've seen this decade.
It was tense, exciting, Luke was amazing in it, that ending was fantastic "see you around kid", I was punching the air in joy when Luke said that.
Yoda! , that Yoda scene was incredible.
I was shocked by the negative reactions by some of the SW fanbase, I'm a big fan of the original trilogy and to me TLJ felt more like them then any other SW film.

The Force Awakens was alright but it was just fan service and the films structure is literally - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, next scene, new location - good guys talking/doing stuff, bad guys show up, they fight, good guys flee, big ending that's a quarter to a third of the films total run time. Et Voila !!!
@Dar-ren19

I wouldn't worry too much. TFA was very explicitly designed to make people feel like it was the OT, and also just good, again. The prequels had burned many, so it had been over 30 years since there had been a well-liked SW movie. It was really just to get the ball rolling again. JJ got a ton of flack for being safe and making a mostly straightforward adventure movie, and he seems aware of it too.

Early word indicates he doesn't care about the reaction to TLJ. Not surprising considering he loved the TLJ script and said he wished he could have directed it. Well, now he's basically getting his chance. I expect to start hearing more from him soon, now that Solo is out and IX is the next SW movie on the slate.

@californiagirl

The best thing Rian did with TLJ was to wipe the slate clean, center the narrative on Rey & Kylo only, and pretty much force JJ to go in a new direction as TLJ mashed up ESB + ROTJ (as well as it's own subversions) leaving Star Wars in uncharted territory. Funnily enough, it's what fanboys lacking in imagination complain about the most (seriously, just look at r/StarWars - talk about a TLJ hatefest - in the last few days). JJ should take that ball and run with it. The story also feels like it requires a heavier tone with more gravity, unlike TFA, so I hope JJ is up for that. More introspection without undercutting character moments. I do think that he has taken on the criticisms on board and I just have a gut feeling that he's going to go with something very creative. That's just me though. Bringing Terrio on board at least points to something different. Whilst I wasn't a fan of BvS, Argo was decent-ish, and Terrio is supposedly big on mythology which might point to why he was hired. JJ has proven with his TV shows that he can just do plain weird as well when he wants to. See: LOST (for all of it's popularity and mainstream success it was definitely strange), Fringe, Westworld etc. He has more imagination and creativity than fanboys would have you believe and I hope he puts that into good use with IX.

Edit: I just remembered the BR 2049 art director is working on IX which is pretty exciting too.

by MrsWindu on Wed 30 May 2018, 1:14 pm

There was a great article in the NY Times about Lawrence Kasdan’s career to date. The below are his and Harrison’s views on the ST

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/30/movies/star-wars-lawrence-kasdan.html

LAWRENCE KASDAN At the end of 2012, Kathy said, “We want to make some more ‘Star Wars’ movies. Will you come up and talk about it?” I said, “I don’t really want to.” It was out of respect for Kathy and George that I went. I said, “I just feel like I’ve done this.” They said, “We want to do a movie about Han.” That got me. That was the only one that could possibly have gotten me. They had already hired Michael Arndt to write Episode VII. They also wanted me to consult on [that]. We’re in a room in this hotel in Santa Monica, just trying to figure out what Episode VII should be, and Michael was struggling as much as any of us. Then it got more intense, because now J.J. [Abrams] came in, so it’s me and J.J. and Michael and a bunch of executives from Lucasfilm, going, “Well, what could happen next?” That is no way to write something, and it went on for months.

JONATHAN KASDAN My mother and I were very gung-ho. We thought, you’ve got to take this opportunity. These movies are going to be seen by the whole world. And it matters that they be infused with as much sensitivity and intelligence as they can be.

LAWRENCE KASDAN They were getting close to when they were supposed to start production. We had nothing. So they came to me and said, “Will you do this with J.J.? We told Michael and he’s good with it.” I said all right. It was just us. They got rid of everybody. Now you’re free.

Once again, the chance to revisit Solo — now older but no wiser — proved irresistible.

LAWRENCE KASDAN It had been 30 years since we saw Han. We’d all gone through 30 years of life, and what it tells you is, you make the same mistakes again and again. I’d gotten older. But my personality hadn’t changed, and I didn’t think Han’s would change. But what do you learn, one way or another? What does life teach you? How does your experience make you a more interesting person? And all the regrets you have, and all the disappointments? That was the basis of Han.

FORD For me, that was the ultimate value and the pleasure of playing that character. I loved the fact that he turns out to be a reasonable continuum of character, but acknowledging the reality of the passage of 30 years. Boys will be boys. There’s no accounting for that.