The Last Jedi General Discussion

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by snufkin on Wed 30 May 2018, 1:21 pm

TBH the worrying about JJ, if the evidence being presented is either Star Trek or Lost, that's pretty weak evidence. SW is not ST and more to the point, different type of story/history and producers responsible for it. As mentioned above, see his work on shows like Fringe or more to the point with Rey being the protagonist going through a coming of age story, Felicity.

Another thing that I just don't really understand the ongoing worry when we have the evidence in front of us of what it would've been like with Colin Trevorrow in charge. Spoiler alert - truly terrible with likely super Force Ghost Luke, Reylo Love Child, dead Kylo, Rose reduced to comic relief cliches. Leia getting negged for not being a good mother, et cetera. Maybe that's just my disposition, but for all its playing it safe with nostalgia, TFA brought me back into the fold as a disillusioned former childhood fan and introduced probably two of the best characters and one of the best relationships ever in the franchise. All under JJ's watch. So I don't really get the worrying about JJ, especially when in comparison, we would've instead actually had the type of hackneyed blockbuster that plays it safe by catering to nostalgia which tells fanboys that they're the best. Like there won't be a dumpster fire, but people feel compelled to fret about what they'll get instead (something not perfect but not a horrible disaster) in comparison?  Is this where people feel like they have to worry about how a story plays out for the sake of the worrying/drama because that's part of how they engage as a fan? Which fine, if that's how you experience being a fan (and having known friends who follow perpetual losing/underdog sports teams, it's not just Star Wars), okay fine. But as with the tired old "manage your expectations" mantra a lot of us got told prior to TLJ, that's on the individual to deal with versus bringing it into a discussion as a valid point.

Also thank you as always to @MrsWindu for finding these pieces of information, I'll be reading after I hit the send button. My instinct from the beginning as somebody who watched a ton of Kasdan's movies growing up and then reading all of the interviews/listening to podcasts from him after TFA came out was that you don't collaborate with one of your children on a story with this type of plotline if the goal is to have the child die a horrible death as a horrible person after the parent hoped/sacrificed over them. That's always been my read on the ultimate theme for the Solos, father and son, in the new films. Which I've said elsewhere on here, I am definitely disappointed that they decided yet again to do a father and son story. But it is what it is and with the various articles and pieces of information that they've put out there into the public, it's pretty clear that part of "Making things right" is that he came back to write the stories the way he wanted to for the OT but got overruled by George Lucas. I do think it is amusing to see SW fans suddenly 'discovering' this guy. Like guys, if you think Dave Filoni is the be all and end all of having a vision for Star Wars, you're either somebody who wasn't alive during the OT or before the PT. Which I've had my LOL moments reading comments from various people who likely are very young fans complaining about him. Like yes, that guy who wrote The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi and gave your fave Luke the hero's arc you gush over is a terrible writer and that's why Solo bombed. Or if you're an older fan, you're one of the really ignorant ones who never paid attention to movies outside of gigantic blockbuster pop culture moments. I can see not liking what somebody has done as a writer and saying you didn't get anything from his films. But the sudden discovery of him because he wrote things that don't tick off your particular fandom wishlist while being slightly ignorant (it's like the people who got upset Rian Johnson didn't make the fan fiction extravaganza of their dreams w/out ever bothering to check out his previous work) of who he is as a writer and what he's done, that's on them for not making the effort.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Cowgirlsamurai on Wed 30 May 2018, 1:48 pm

@MrsWindu

Kasdan wrote:There were many times over the ensuing years when George [asked] me to be involved in all three [prequels]. He said, “Hey, how would you like to write such-and-such?” I said, “George, aren’t you supposed to start shooting in two weeks, in Australia?” He said, “Yeah, but it’s not too late.” I was at the first screening of “The Phantom Menace.” And it was just so different that I didn’t really know what to make of it. It had no connection, in my mind, to what we had done. Your eyes are just like, what? How does this work?

LOL Laughing

Edited to add: I am not worried about JJ at all. I only felt relief when I heard he'd be replacing Trevorrow. I believe JJ really will finish what he started, which is the story we love (even if you weren't crazy about Rian's middle chapter).


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by californiagirl on Wed 30 May 2018, 1:57 pm

@MrsWindu I'm always surprised at how late the script for TFA was actually written. I just wish we had more detail at what went down. I believe Arndt left summer of 2013, and the Reylo pitch wasn't too long after, if I'm not mistaken. Really goes to show the ST was actually the product of its creators, not the studio. Wonder what caused the writer shift. Did JJ come up with the ST as we see it now, and they finally had something and let JJ roll with it, and needed Kasdan to make it work?
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by MrsWindu on Wed 30 May 2018, 5:26 pm

@Cowgirlsamurai wrote:@MrsWindu

Kasdan wrote:There were many times over the ensuing years when George [asked] me to be involved in all three [prequels]. He said, “Hey, how would you like to write such-and-such?” I said, “George, aren’t you supposed to start shooting in two weeks, in Australia?” He said, “Yeah, but it’s not too late.” I was at the first screening of “The Phantom Menace.” And it was just so different that I didn’t really know what to make of it. It had no connection, in my mind, to what we had done. Your eyes are just like, what? How does this work?

LOL Laughing

Edited to add: I am not worried about JJ at all. I only felt relief when I heard he'd be replacing Trevorrow. I believe JJ really will finish what he started, which is the story we love (even if you weren't crazy about Rian's middle chapter).
@Cowgirlsamurai
I could be mistaken but I think that’s the first I’ve read about his views on the Prequels.

The more that time passes the more I’m utterly relieved that JJ was given this opportunity to realise his vision for Reylo. For sure I’d love to know what really went down, but for now I’m just grateful

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Wed 30 May 2018, 5:41 pm

Did the TLJ comic come out recently? I'm just seeing things pop up online but idk if this is actually old news lol
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by californiagirl on Wed 30 May 2018, 6:02 pm

@rey09 wrote:Did the TLJ comic come out recently? I'm just seeing things pop up online but idk if this is actually old news lol
@rey09

They have started coming out. The first 2 issues are out, there will be a total of 6 coming out until late summer, which then gets turned into a single combined volume in the fall.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by DeeBee on Wed 30 May 2018, 6:08 pm

@rey09 wrote:Did the TLJ comic come out recently? I'm just seeing things pop up online but idk if this is actually old news lol
@rey09

Yeah looks like a few TLJ things have been released in the last two weeks. Not sure if they've been mentioned as it was all about Solo for me haaa.. I don't think this is old news..
according to here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_comics
the 2nd last jedi comic in the six part series was released 23 may.
In a screen rant article about part 2 [ https://screenrant.com/star-wars-last-jedi-leia-force-comic/ ]
I found this little Leia moment.

I love it! Gooooo Leia!!!
The article also mentions we see Ackbar's last words. lol. when did he have time to get a sentence out? rofl. this does feel to me like fan service! But harmless enough!

Anyone gotten hold of these? Care to share any finds?
I wish I could access these comics easily and cheaply but I don't really see how... booo

edited to add: lol. No need for Boooos..  I just found part 1 of the six part series on youtube. here it is if you'd like to read: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbWHUHKZZ5Y
Hopefully they'll share part 2 asap!


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Wed 30 May 2018, 6:12 pm

@californiagirl wrote:
@rey09 wrote:Did the TLJ comic come out recently? I'm just seeing things pop up online but idk if this is actually old news lol
@rey09

They have started coming out. The first 2 issues are out, there will be a total of 6 coming out until late summer, which then gets turned into a single combined volume in the fall.
@californiagirl

Ahh ok got it, thanks! Did I miss any reylo parts? I saw on tumblr pics of the first force bond.

@DeeBee lol I love that!! Leia <3
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by californiagirl on Wed 30 May 2018, 6:51 pm

@rey09 Not that I've seen, but I suspect only about one Reylo scene per issue, given that each comic is only one sixth of the movie.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by DeeBee on Wed 30 May 2018, 7:27 pm

@californiagirl wrote:@rey09 Not that I've seen, but I suspect only about one Reylo scene per issue, given that each comic is only one sixth of the movie.
@californiagirl

Guys if no one gets to it before I do, I'll try and share the reylo moments here as I read it. Now I've found it online I'm going to be reading it in time.. it might take me a while but I'll share if I find interesting reylo stuff in TLJ comic. Any ideas what thread I would share this in?
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Irina de France on Wed 30 May 2018, 7:30 pm

I think it'll be fine to share the comic panels here, since this is the TLJ thread Smile
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by DeeBee on Wed 30 May 2018, 7:41 pm

@Irina de France - cool thanks Irina I shall report back with reylo TLJ comics updates tee hee..
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Wed 30 May 2018, 8:13 pm

@DeeBee wrote:@Irina de France - cool thanks Irina I shall report back with reylo TLJ comics updates tee hee..
@DeeBee

thanks in advance lol!
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rawpowah on Wed 30 May 2018, 8:18 pm

@DeeBee Thank you!!
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TLJ comic Adaptation Reylo content- #1 of 6

Post by DeeBee on Thu 31 May 2018, 1:58 am

@rey09 @rawpowah
Hiya, I just read the last Jedi comic adaption 1 of 6 - and it starts with Luke on Ahch-to, and follows the movie's events through to the resistance finding out the FO has tracked them through hyperspace. Nothing Reylo to report.. umm unless you want to apply this lovely little moment:

I am sure Kylo is thinking of the Reylo Ship! no?!
Don't worry Kylo your ship is prepared!!! haaaa... and JJ is about to guide it in for a safe landing in IX!! whooo hoooo!!!


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Night Huntress on Thu 31 May 2018, 3:37 am

@DeeBee

the artwork is...not very well done imo. I'm very disappointed. I wanted to buy it but after I saw it how it was drawn. No thanks! No
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Riri on Thu 31 May 2018, 12:11 pm

I would highly recommend this video essay from Lessons from the Screenplay. The narrator talks about character arcs and explains why he thought Kylo had the best character arc and why he felt Finns arc was not as compelling. TL;DR - Kylo is always placed in situations where he could embrace the darkness but always hesitates (mentions Leia and emotional bond with Rey). Regarding Finn, the audience did not know where Finn stood (regarding the Resistance) at the beginning of the film so that's why his arc didn't feel like much of a journey.

He's not a hater and loved how challenging the TLJ. Also commends TLJ for giving all the characters an arc, even if Finn's wasnt as compelling.


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SanghaRen on Thu 31 May 2018, 2:39 pm

Did they add new pictures in the data bank? Pretty sure someone already posted somewhere as soon as they appeared Smile which I have no idea when it happened.

I like the descriptions for these 2 pics even though one should take them with a grain of salt. I like the idea that the Force has a plan of its own as implied in the novelization too especially when Rey is standing over Ben lying unconscious on the throne room floor. In doubt, always blame it on the Force Very Happy And I do like the “But that didn’t feel much like a victory” for the dice scene - stating the obvious but not for all.



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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by rey09 on Thu 31 May 2018, 3:12 pm

[quote="SanghaRen"]Did they add new pictures in the data bank? Pretty sure someone already posted somewhere as soon as they appeared Smile which I have no idea when it happened.

I like the descriptions for these 2 pics even though one should take them with a grain of salt. I like the idea that the Force has a plan of its own as implied in the novelization too especially when Rey is standing over Ben lying unconscious on the throne room floor. In doubt, always blame it on the Force Very Happy And I do like the “But that didn’t feel much like a victory” for the dice scene - stating the obvious but not for all.

@SanghaRen

Aha the FORCE RECONNECTED them. And she chose to close it off. But how much longer can she really do that when something as powerful as the Force is up to something lol. This is for all the haterz who are like wah wah it's OVERR!!
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by DeeBee on Thu 31 May 2018, 6:10 pm

@Night Huntress -I agree. the artwork of Kylo/Ben especially is disappointing.. there is elements to the artwork that I'm enjoying too though - some interesting creative choices that are quite cool. I agree though I would not have spent money on it! lol.
@SanghaRen -yeah I think it was early May the databank updated.. Some content has been shared - they are in the threads related to the content. I too was struck by how it was expressed that 'the force reconnected' Rey and Kylo/Ben at the end there. very cool! I love all this will of the force stuff tee hee.. I agree with you - the force and it's will is basically a major character in SW. And the interplay of destiny and the choices we make are at the heart of the skywalker saga.

SanghaRen, which part do you take with a grain of salt? starwars.com databank is canon. So it can be treated like all canon - over ruled by the movies.. subject to re-interpretation as new content is released (and the story unfolds) but otherwise solid..

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Kylo Rey on Thu 31 May 2018, 7:00 pm




Umm where the heck are Rose's eyes?!? What kind of weird racism is going on here
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by IoJovi on Thu 31 May 2018, 7:24 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:


Umm where the heck are Rose's eyes?!? What kind of weird racism is going on here
@Kylo Rey

This is how I drew Asian people when I was six years old and didn’t know any better. How embarrassing... Sad

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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Armadeus on Thu 31 May 2018, 7:33 pm

@IoJovi wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:


Umm where the heck are Rose's eyes?!? What kind of weird racism is going on here
@Kylo Rey

This is how I drew Asian people when I was six years old and didn’t know any better.  How embarrassing...  Sad

@IoJovi

I don't get Lucasfilm sometimes. I mean, when it comes to the regular comics the art is pretty good. But when it comes to the adaptations of TFA or TLJ, it's like: 'Yeah, let's get Geoff from accounting to draw it.'

ETA: I think it's Marvel who should be held accountable, since they do the actual comics.


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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by Saracene on Thu 31 May 2018, 7:50 pm

@Riri wrote:I would highly recommend this video essay from Lessons from the Screenplay. The narrator talks about character arcs and explains why he thought Kylo had the best character arc and why he felt Finns arc was not as compelling. TL;DR - Kylo is always placed in situations where he could embrace the darkness but always hesitates (mentions Leia and emotional bond with Rey). Regarding Finn, the audience did not know where Finn stood (regarding the Resistance) at the beginning of the film so that's why his arc didn't feel like much of a journey.

@Riri

This video does make great points about Finn's arc in TLJ and the lack of tension in his personal journey or his relationship with Rose that makes it dull. Something else that struck me recently is that Finn's concern over Rey's safety at the start of the film is kinda messy and not thought through very well. He explains that he wants to run away so that Rey doesn't come back to the doomed Resistance... but his concern seems to be solely about the fact that the First Order keeps gaining on the Resistance because they can track them through light speed. Once they figure out the plan to avoid the FO, Finn goes as far as handing the tracking device leading Rey back to the Resistance back to Poe as a gesture of good faith. But... if the idea is that Finn doesn't care about the Resistance and only cares about Rey, the notion that he believes he has a better chance of keeping Rey safe by going along with a risky plan is not very plausible... so then he does care enough about the Resistance to commit to it?

Maybe the whole thing could have worked better if Finn was reluctant about the mission and instead saw it as a chance to run away, and thought that Rose was just a major pain in the a**, and *then* came around. But I guess they were uncomfortable with the idea of Finn doing anything that would make him look too unlikable, so instead we got this weak wishy-washy arc which, ironically, made the audience care about Finn less.
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Re: The Last Jedi General Discussion

Post by SoloSideCousin on Thu 31 May 2018, 10:23 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Riri wrote:I would highly recommend this video essay from Lessons from the Screenplay. The narrator talks about character arcs and explains why he thought Kylo had the best character arc and why he felt Finns arc was not as compelling. TL;DR - Kylo is always placed in situations where he could embrace the darkness but always hesitates (mentions Leia and emotional bond with Rey). Regarding Finn, the audience did not know where Finn stood (regarding the Resistance) at the beginning of the film so that's why his arc didn't feel like much of a journey.

@Riri

This video does make great points about Finn's arc in TLJ and the lack of tension in his personal journey or his relationship with Rose that makes it dull. Something else that struck me recently is that Finn's concern over Rey's safety at the start of the film is kinda messy and not thought through very well. He explains that he wants to run away so that Rey doesn't come back to the doomed Resistance... but his concern seems to be solely about the fact that the First Order keeps gaining on the Resistance because they can track them through light speed. Once they figure out the plan to avoid the FO, Finn goes as far as handing the tracking device leading Rey back to the Resistance back to Poe as a gesture of good faith. But... if the idea is that Finn doesn't care about the Resistance and only cares about Rey, the notion that he believes he has a better chance of keeping Rey safe by going along with a risky plan is not very plausible... so then he does care enough about the Resistance to commit to it?

Maybe the whole thing could have worked better if Finn was reluctant about the mission and instead saw it as a chance to run away, and thought that Rose was just a major pain in the a**, and *then* came around. But I guess they were uncomfortable with the idea of Finn doing anything that would make him look too unlikable, so instead we got this weak wishy-washy arc which, ironically, made the audience care about Finn less.
@Saracene

Yeah, you are right about all of this. It's like they give Finn 5 seconds of looking less than an utterly decent guy, and then immediately run from it.

Poe is awful the whole movie, but then the two women he dismisses give him total absolution for absolutely no reason other than he's hot. What kind of army runs like that?

Then Rey has her grey moments of hitting Luke in the head and going to Kylo, but then the post-PG fight scene is engineered for the most extreme resolution possible where the man who just saved the woman's life and risked everything for her is in all-out war against her in the next scene, while the woman doesn't seem to have any concept of what he did for her, just makes "moral" demands of him without a thank you, and is "woohooing" while she is in a battle against him.

That post-PG fight scene could have played out a million different ways that would have allowed for more nuance. Yes, the scene was dramatic and great with the parent reveal and the Darcy proposal and the "please" and the exploding lightsaber ... but if they had added a little more nuance like Rey realizing what he did for her or him arguing that he didn't want to rule the FO, but something new (which the databank recently confirmed), or that he couldn't stop the attack without appearing treasonous which would get them both killed, or that he couldn't just leave things to Hux, then she would have something of a moral quandary to deal with. She would actually have to make a choice that people could argue about, but instead they set it up so she looks perfectly noble, and as a result, she is much less interesting than she could have been.

Some folks give a lot of guff to the spin-offs, but the spin-offs tend give their characters more complicated motivations and allow them to make questionable choices, even when they are basically supposed to be heroic. The ST could do a better job of that. I love Kylo/Ben with all of my being, but how much better would these movies be if they actually delved into what could be possible for some of these other characters?
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