Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

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Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Kessel on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 2:56 am

@Saracene wrote:
@shii405 wrote:Fun Fact: Rey has only shown her tears (cries) in front of Kylo Ren.

True?

Not sure of my memory.
@shii405

And Maz in TFA.
@Saracene

And Finn too, but he was unconscious.

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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 3:12 am

Rey cries easily. She's very emotional. Has a soft heart. Waiting for parents that she knows in her heart of hearts will never show up... friending people who help her and are kind to her almost immediately (that includes BB8).

I've been trying to pinpoint the cinematic moment that she made the about turn to Kylo/Ben and began to be his defender. I think it was when she realized Luke had lied to her about him. Once the truth was out, it didn't take her AT ALL long to fly to his side, figuratively and physically. The force-bond is so powerful that it was easy for them both to attack/kill their masters to defend each other... but it also makes them blind to each other's physical cues...they're too close to truly SEE each other. Their reflective selves are so powerfully aligned with reality (and I think the mirror/cave scene alludes to this), that it's hard for them to truly know what the other needs.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Kessel on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 11:32 am

It’s funny, Rey cries easily and is a compassionate and forgiving person, but she’s still somewhat of an enigma. I’m still not completely certain of what’s going on in her head.

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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by giaciak2 on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 12:18 pm

@motherofpearl1 wrote:Okay....I'm going to be controversial now and say out loud: in my opinion this is the best Star Wars movie yet. Again, my opinion, but my reasons are because of several things. First and foremost, Reylo. This is truly the beating heart of this film, and may be the beating heart of the whole trilogy, because its about two damaged and lonely young people who need each other and want each other but will only be able to be together when they can accept each other. Kylo has to learn that Rey does have friends she loves, and can't turn her back on - or at least one friend - and Rey needs to accept that Kylo and Ben are one and the same and she has to accept both. And love both. Just as the Force itself needs to find a balance. Secondly, there are so many subtexts you could spend hours discussing them and still only scratch the surface. Thirdly, the 'shades of grey' - DJ may be amoral, but he had a point regarding 'good guys' and 'bad guys'. Poe acted like a complete a** half the time....but did Leia really have to use a stun gun on him? And why didn't Holdo tell him what she had in mind? And finally....Luke Skywalker's swansong was breathtaking. What an amazing ending for the hero of the OT. The more Isee TLJ the more I appreciate it. I'm just saddened so many OT fans seem to dislike it.
@motherofpearl1

I Totally agree !!!!!! In my opinion it's the best star war movie.
In the past, fathers and sons went to see the Star War film. I think if Reylo is not denied. For chapter 9. There will be a crowd of women, girls and baby girls hoping to see this damn kiss ... and hope for the happy ending. I continue to hope that they get married and have children .... In the end ... what message do we want to give to children?
Who is wrong should not be forgiven?
Who loves does not deserve to be re-loved?
For a child, the highest expression of love is the family.
For them the Happy End is a family that loves their children. My son hated Rouge One. He did not want to see Star War anymore because the characters are dead.
If Kylo / Ben does not get married with Rey, it would be very sad.
And again: Snoke in my opinion is the pedophile, the ogre that eats children. He deserved to die. But the abused child must have his ransom. He was bad it is true, but the children forgive. Then something is missing in the story. I think he misses why Kylo killed his father. I think the answer is in the film Han Solo. Was this the Oedipus complex? Was it Zeus that kills Chrono? Or was it the son abandoned by two separate parents who deliver the baby to the ogre? . As a parent I know that mistakes are often made with children. So I think Kylo / Ren must do something good to tell the children that evil loses and love wins. But he must not die. To the joy of everyone he must live and be happy. And he can only do it with Rey and alive. ... I hope ...
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Saracene on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 1:58 pm

@Kessel wrote:It’s funny, Rey cries easily and is a compassionate and forgiving person, but she’s still somewhat of an enigma. I’m still not completely certain of what’s going on in her head.
@Kessel

That's probably because she rarely talks about what's in her head. Which is why Rey pouring out her heart to Kylo after the mirror scene is so powerful. If you compare that with her friendship with Finn in TFA, yes they bond and Finn pours out his heart to Rey in the Maz castle scene, but there's never a moment when Rey reciprocates and shares herself with Finn in a similar way.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by snufkin on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 2:05 pm

Rey's spent most of her life in isolation and even with the novel/comic books that have her as a character, she's shown as somebody who keeps to herself on Jakku and doesn't spent much time interacting/speaking with others. Which at least makes BB-8 and Ben/Kylo the two characters she's been the most open with.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Kessel on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 3:43 pm

@Saracene and @snufkin - I definitely agree that Rey keeps her thoughts of herself. It’s just interesting what a mystery she is.

I agree that her confiding in Kylo was a big deal. I don’t think she’s ever confided in someone like she did him. That’s why I just can’t believe JJ is going to disregard that connection.

Her friendship with Finn is cute and sweet, but it’s rather superficial. They don’t really know each other.  Finn doesn’t even know or understand Rey’s force sensitivity or her issues and fears regarding her family. Their friendship reminded me of two children on a whirlwind adventure. I know she’s connected with Leia, but I don’t see it as a very developed or strong connection yet. And there really isn’t anyone else she’s connected to in the Resistance yet.

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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Dar-ren19 on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 3:54 pm

@giaciak2 I can't find @motherofpearl1 's post, but this was absolute gold:

"And finally....Luke Skywalker's swansong was breathtaking. What an amazing ending for the hero of the OT. The more Isee TLJ the more I appreciate it. I'm just saddened so many OT fans seem to dislike it."

I totally, totally agree. What a wonderful send off to the character. I don't know about Mark, but any actor worth his/her salt would be ecstatic at the WRITING of that end (and that includes John Williams' score for that segment).
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by snufkin on Wed 17 Jan 2018, 6:11 pm

@Kessel - I took the mention of the John Lennon song "Broken Inside" to be about how they each have a psychological mask that they project out into the world to cover up for their actual insecurities/trauma. Which comes off when they're with one another, both voluntarily and involuntarily. And that's maybe the song that should've been playing during their last scene looking at each other before she shuts the door on him.

They've definitely tried to show some of Rey's isolation in FoD with Unkar Plutt especially being a jerk to her and telling her "you have no friends."







As a sidebar, the trilogy has at least put more work into that point (even if it's not always obvious) with those two characters, versus with Finn. Or we're just supposed to see the confused, initially self-protecting, and frightened person behind that mask trying to figure out what the f**k he does next.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by giaciak2 on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:37 am

Uff, I'm going anxious. In short, someone wants to give some good advice to Rey ?. It's a sweeper that repairs everything. What are she waiting to repair the heart of Ben / Kylo? I don't know if I can wait two years for IX ....
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:17 pm



AMEN. cheers
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Lily Snape on Fri 19 Jan 2018, 12:57 am

@Saracene wrote:
@Kessel wrote:It’s funny, Rey cries easily and is a compassionate and forgiving person, but she’s still somewhat of an enigma. I’m still not completely certain of what’s going on in her head.
@Kessel

That's probably because she rarely talks about what's in her head. Which is why Rey pouring out her heart to Kylo after the mirror scene is so powerful. If you compare that with her friendship with Finn in TFA, yes they bond and Finn pours out his heart to Rey in the Maz castle scene, but there's never a moment when Rey reciprocates and shares herself with Finn in a similar way.
@Saracene

Rey is also quick to get aggressive and quick to defend herself or her friends—as we have noted here numerous times, Rey, like her future father-in-law, shoots first. Pretty much always. She reacts quickly and openly — she doesn’t have tantrums like Kylo can, but she speaks her anger and sadness and love, and she wears her heart on her sleeve much more than he does. He’s mostly so calm and curious and questioning around her, even if he’s a bomb waiting to go off around everyone else. He gets a lot of press for being emotional, but I think that’s because in a film like this, that quality is unusual for a man, and unusual for a “villain.” We sort of take it for granted with Rey, probably because women are allowed to express their emotions without it being analyzed or questioned.

In short, I think they could handle each other’s openness with emotions. I can’t see them telling the other one to cool it.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by SheLitAFire on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 9:52 pm

Star Crossed Lovers and their Hands


1968 Romeo and Juliet

West Side Story

Reylo
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by MyOnlyHope on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:27 pm

@SheLitAFire Remember when Rian was tweeting all those West Side Story Tonight references in the lead up to the trailer?

Turns out the whole Tonight sequence is like the most Force Bond thing ever in terms of how Rian pictured the technicalities of the connection. Just lol.

From TLJ: "Can you see my surroundings? I can't see yours. Just you."

MARIA: Imagine being afraid of you.
TONY: You see.
MARIA: I see you.
TONY: Maria, see only me.

*Breaks into song*
MARIA
Only you, you're the only thing I'll see forever
In my eyes in my words and in everything I do
Nothing else but you
Ever

TONY
And there's nothing for me but Maria
Every sight that I see is Maria

MARIA
Tony, Tony

TONY
Always you, every thought I'll ever know
Everywhere I go you'll be

TONY & MARIA
All the world is only you and me

MARIA
Tonight, tonight
It all began tonight
I saw you and the world went away

Tonight, tonight
There's only you tonight
What you are, what you do, what you say

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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by thescavenger on Thu 25 Jan 2018, 10:42 pm

@MyOnlyHope

I still can't get over Rian Johnson smirking at the end of that post.

"It's all there!"
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Teo oswald on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 3:04 am

@Lily Snape wrote:
@Saracene wrote:
@Kessel wrote:It’s funny, Rey cries easily and is a compassionate and forgiving person, but she’s still somewhat of an enigma. I’m still not completely certain of what’s going on in her head.
@Kessel

That's probably because she rarely talks about what's in her head. Which is why Rey pouring out her heart to Kylo after the mirror scene is so powerful. If you compare that with her friendship with Finn in TFA, yes they bond and Finn pours out his heart to Rey in the Maz castle scene, but there's never a moment when Rey reciprocates and shares herself with Finn in a similar way.
@Saracene

Rey is also quick to get aggressive and quick to defend herself or her friends—as we have noted here numerous times, Rey, like her future father-in-law, shoots first. Pretty much always. She reacts quickly and openly — she doesn’t have tantrums like Kylo can, but she speaks her anger and sadness and love, and she wears her heart on her sleeve much more than he does. He’s mostly so calm and curious and questioning around her, even if he’s a bomb waiting to go off around everyone else. He gets a lot of press for being emotional, but I think that’s because in a film like this, that quality is unusual for a man, and unusual for a “villain.” We sort of take it for granted with Rey, probably because women are allowed to express their emotions without it being analyzed or questioned.

In short, I think they could handle each other’s openness with emotions. I can’t see them telling the other one to cool it.
@Lily Snape

remember that Rey has grown up on jakku a place where survival is everything. She is wild, strong because she knows what it means "live" Kylo , well has the temperament of his father but also his heart, however it is very emotional, compassionate, vulnerable because in him there is both light and darkness. He is a prince so he has more refined ways than Rey. it is a perfect conglomerate of han and Leia Very Happy

Rey is wild, kylo is quiet but sometimes the roles are turned around
Rey is quiet and kylo crazy Smile a perfect balance Very Happy
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 4:00 pm

From Starwars.com:

Earlier, an unmasked Kylo Ren allows Rey to look into his eyes, and then see his fears when he is attempting to pry information from her mind. Kylo Ren shows a sign of wanting to be seen as a man and not a monster when he rips off his mask after Rey calls him a “creature in a mask” in this same scene.

It seems like an opinion piece, but still, it's on the official site!

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-introduction-of-kylo-ren-and-the-meaning-of-a-mask


Last edited by Kylo Rey on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Maria Antonietta on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 4:06 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:From Starwars.com:

Earlier, an unmasked Kylo Ren allows Rey to look into his eyes, and then see his fears when he is attempting to pry information from her mind. Kylo Ren shows a sign of wanting to be seen as a man and not a monster when he rips off his mask after Rey calls him a “creature in a mask” in this same scene.

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-introduction-of-kylo-ren-and-the-meaning-of-a-mask
@Kylo Rey


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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Piper Maru on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 4:32 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:From Starwars.com:

Earlier, an unmasked Kylo Ren allows Rey to look into his eyes, and then see his fears when he is attempting to pry information from her mind. Kylo Ren shows a sign of wanting to be seen as a man and not a monster when he rips off his mask after Rey calls him a “creature in a mask” in this same scene.

It seems like an opinion piece, but still, it's on the official site!

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-introduction-of-kylo-ren-and-the-meaning-of-a-mask
@Kylo Rey

It's so beautiful.

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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Kylo Rey on Fri 26 Jan 2018, 5:49 pm

@Piper Maru wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:From Starwars.com:

Earlier, an unmasked Kylo Ren allows Rey to look into his eyes, and then see his fears when he is attempting to pry information from her mind. Kylo Ren shows a sign of wanting to be seen as a man and not a monster when he rips off his mask after Rey calls him a “creature in a mask” in this same scene.

It seems like an opinion piece, but still, it's on the official site!

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-introduction-of-kylo-ren-and-the-meaning-of-a-mask
@Kylo Rey

It's so beautiful.

@Piper Maru

They're releasing official Kylo Ren metas! Felt like reading one of the earliest Reylo ones on tumblr.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by thescavenger on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 9:33 am

@Kylo Rey wrote:From Starwars.com:

Earlier, an unmasked Kylo Ren allows Rey to look into his eyes, and then see his fears when he is attempting to pry information from her mind. Kylo Ren shows a sign of wanting to be seen as a man and not a monster when he rips off his mask after Rey calls him a “creature in a mask” in this same scene.

It seems like an opinion piece, but still, it's on the official site!

http://www.starwars.com/news/the-introduction-of-kylo-ren-and-the-meaning-of-a-mask
@Kylo Rey

AS A MANNNNN

*screeching*
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by lauvamp on Sat 27 Jan 2018, 9:44 am

@SheLitAFire @MyOnlyHope

OMG. All make sense now!!! Embarassed
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by ZioRen on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 2:36 pm

This is a great meta on how Kylo's proposal, despite its unpleasant elements, is also the most romantic moment in the movie and a great sign for Reylo's future development: https://itspileofgoodthings.tumblr.com/post/170221758326/the-last-jedi-far-from-the-madding-crowd-and-the

The writer goes on to compare their dynamic to another story to emphasize her point, but I'll only post direct quotes about the Rey/Kylo relationship here.

I’m here to say that I think that the most romantic moment in The Last Jedi is not what you think it is. And I don’t just mean that it’s between Rey and Ben- obviously it’s between Rey and Ben. We know that. But in a movie filled with suggestive/romantic/tender moments between them, I think the romantic moment is not the most obviously “romantic” one. I don’t think it’s the Hand Touch or the Thigh Grab or the Shirtless Scene.

The most romantic moment to me is the moment Ben rejects Rey’s offer and makes one of his own to her. And okay yes, you could say of course that’s the most romantic one. He’s high-key proposing to her. (And he is.) But I’m saying the fact that he rejected Rey’s offer is not only narratively important but, yes, central to their romantic dynamic. Let me try to break it down.

The common theme of most of my pre-TLJ reylo shipping was always founded on the idea that Kylo loved/needed Rey more than she did him. This wasn’t just the basic premise of all reylo shipping I participated in- it was its key appeal. And going into The Last Jedi I had this attitude and felt that the film backed it up almost immediately. During their first Force Connections, Rey is the angry one while Kylo (almost literally) makes Heart Eyes at her. ( “Can you see my surroundings? I can’t see yours. Just you.” strange and tender emphasis on you.) And this, I told myself, was exactly how I wanted it to be.

Then things started to shift. Rey started to discover there was more to him than she’d previously thought. She saw his conflict- “you’re a monster” “Yes I am”; she heard his challenges and his truths about her parents. She went to face the darkness herself in an effort to learn/accept the truth herself, to prove that no, she wasn’t holding on to delusions, that they were coming back for her. And when she realized that they weren’t, when the full extent of her loneliness finally hit her, she reached for him- literally and figuratively- across a great chasm.

And as soon as she touches him she decides almost instantly that she is going to save him.

So far so good right. So far so in line with the version of reylo I’d shipped. Rey’s agency burning bright and fiercely, her decisions leading the way, Kylo unsure of anything in his life except his feelings for her.

But then something happens that takes Rey and the casual viewer by surprise. Kylo’s feelings for Rey are not enough.

They are not enough to make him go back with her or obey her every command. She tells him to stop firing on the fleet and he doesn’t listen. Instead of doing what she wants, he turns to her with an impassioned plea to let the past die and to join him in bringing a new order to the galaxy. She begs him not to do this with tears in her eyes, but after one final plea on his part and an effort to make her understand what he passionately believes- that her place is right next to him- the two are torn apart by the Force.

It’s a decision that made sense to me narratively and which personally broke my heart because I (like the casual viewer is supposed to) wanted these two to work it out so that they could be together.

And while I’m sure this is fairly obvious to many in the reylo fandom, it took me some time and thought to realize that this was the best narrative option I could have asked for at this point in their story, not only because the reconciliation and resolutions of love stories has to happen at the end and not 2/3 of the way through a story’s arc but also because his rejection of her as the Sole Motivator of His Actions was not just necessary but was and is one of the more truly romantic moments of The Last Jedi.

And I’m not even talking about the “you’re nothing, but not to me” line or his achingly vulnerable “please” that follows it. I’m talking specifically about his rejection of her. Yes, I’m arguing that there is something specifically romantic about the fact that Kylo rejected Rey and offered her something else instead.

I did want Kylo to fall at her feet. I wanted him to be desperate, to need her and love her more than he’d ever needed anyone in his life. But when I actually watched the movie I realized really quickly that what I was getting was so much better. We talk about Rey’s agency a lot and how important it is but Kylo’s agency is just as important in terms of a romantic relationship developing between them. It’s just as important for him to be his own person and to make his own decisions as it is for her to do so if romance is ever going to work between them.

And in rejecting her claim on him- to come back with her to a resistance that he didn’t support or believe in- he makes a huge, important step in that direction. In the right direction. He is not using his need for her (and I do believe that especially with Snoke gone he needs her) or his feelings for her (and I think they’re about as intense and desperate as you’d imagine) as the sole guide for his actions. This doesn’t mean his moral compass is somehow correct- it’s still completely screwed up-but there’s a real core of rightness to his approach and proposal to her, demonstrated just by the fact that he actually proposes something to her instead of demanding something of her. His proposal is wrapped up in destruction, yes. He’s asking her to abandon her friends and her ideals and start over new while destroying the past (something she cannot do), but the emphasis is not on his need for her, on his desperation, or even on his feelings for her.

Though his words reverberate through and through with his emotion and desperation for her, the focus of his plea is on what they can build together as a couple, on what they can do together, on what they can be together. He does not offer her just his brokenness (though she can see it). He doesn’t say “you’re all I have left”, though she is all he has left. He wants to be his own person with her as he wants her to be her own person with him. He has no wish to control her just as he has no wish to be controlled by her. Going back with her to a cause he didn’t believe in and to people he didn’t trust or respect purely because she wanted him to (and because he felt something for her) would be to relinquish any dignity or self-respect he might have left. It would be to betray himself and her because it would be devoting himself to a cause he didn’t believe him. I’m rooting for a redemption arc here. I want Kylo’s allegiance to shift. I want him to join the fight against oppression that the resistance at its best embodies. But I want him to do it for the right reasons. And Rey, all by herself, is not the right reason. If she were to serve as his moral guide, as the voice of his conscience, as his true and actual ruler, she would suffocate him in the same moment that she would cease to be her own person. And Kylo’s grasp on love, despite its flaws, is strong and clear enough to understand that he loves Rey as her own person- not as his idol, not as his ruler.

Any hope moving forward for reylo, any chance that this relationship could develop into something beautiful and healthy and mutually beneficial hinges on a lot of things- his atonement and return to the light in whatever form that takes being the most important. (If it’s more grey, alright, but some huge step across moral boundaries needs to happen.) But it also hinges on his rejection of Rey’s offer to come home with her. I don’t accuse Rey of wanting to control Ben Solo and use him to achieve her ends, but if he had come back with her without believing in the cause or in anything except her, that’s what would have happened. Rey wants him to want to come back and tries to bridge the gap created by his lack of desire through her sheer force of will, by trying to leap over every other obstacle- including his lack of desire- to achieve her goal of his return. But since he doesn’t want to come back or switch sides or experience a moral conversion, at the moment the hope of this romance’s future springs from the fact that at least he understood he couldn’t come back just for her.

In his own flawed and twisted way, Kylo understands one of the most fundamental truths about romantic love- that it flourishes most when it is established between equals who love and respect the other for being their own person, when they work together and not slavishly for the other, and when the feelings are not desperately one-sided or demanding or groveling, but warm, equal, and giving.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 3:12 pm

@ZioRen
That was definitely a good read. I totally agree that the major reconciliation always had to happen in act 3/3 in any outcome that involved romantic Reylo as the story. Of course, none of us could have known that it was meant to be the story (rather than just a big aspect of a broader story), but in hindsight it's Star Wars. It's all about narrative poetry, emotions and, well, simplicity. Jedi killer in love with the last Jedi... that's Star Wars.
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Re: Romantic Reylo AKA the Who's Your Daddy Thread

Post by Saracene on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 3:55 pm

I sometimes see people say that they wished for Rey to take Kylo's proposal in TLJ, but IMO this turn would have been a total disaster for the long-term romantic Reylo. The story would never end there with Rey and Kylo as the benevolent dictators of the galaxy spreading peace and goodwill everywhere; it would probably be about Rey "coming to her senses", finding her way back to the Resistance and her friends and abandoning Kylo.
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