The Rey Kenobi Files

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The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by BigDeal2187 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:47 am

The clip of Rey watching the ship fly away in TFA was something of a constructed memory. It never really happened, Rey just couldn't accept it.

This I'm not so sure about though.  It makes sense that she would have repressed her memory, but why would she trade one bad memory for another?  The young Rey we see in the vision wasn't very happy about the people in the ship (her parents?) leaving her on Jakku. Why would Rey construct such a terrible memory if it didn't happen?  So if, hypothetically, that's what really happened, why then would Kylo/Ben tell her that her parents were dead in a Jakku grave?
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by BigDeal2187 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:59 am

@Piper Maru wrote:It's not accurate, and we can see that when she sees Kylo in the forest, completely masked, when in reality he wasn't.
@Piper Maru

On Starkiller base, yes.  But the first time they met, which was in a forest, Kylo had his mask on.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 12:48 pm

You know who else was a junker  who liked to drink?

A close up is used in film when the filmmaker wants you to know what's important in a scene. When luke is debating if he should train rey,   In the hologram scene the director decides to close up on Leias face ONLY in the second she says "help me obi wan kenobi you're my only hope" cut straight to sleeping rey,  luke will now train her.... She wakes up

Luke asks rey who she is twice,  the second time why did leia send her?  "Because something inside me has always been there,  now I'm awake and need help.

That's why leia sent her because something deep inside her?

What is it.  

Could it be a theme linked to the hologram?

Rey is following lukes a** around ach to when he refuses the call in a darn kenobi cape lmao

Snoke says he wants ren to be the new Vader right?

That's the destiny he has in mind for him

So why does killing rey fulfil that destiny?

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 2:05 pm

@BigDeal2187 wrote:
The clip of Rey watching the ship fly away in TFA was something of a constructed memory. It never really happened, Rey just couldn't accept it.

This I'm not so sure about though.  It makes sense that she would have repressed her memory, but why would she trade one bad memory for another?  The young Rey we see in the vision wasn't very happy about the people in the ship (her parents?) leaving her on Jakku. Why would Rey construct such a terrible memory if it didn't happen?  So if, hypothetically, that's what really happened, why then would Kylo/Ben tell her that her parents were dead in a Jakku grave?
@BigDeal2187
Because it was traumatic and she was extremely young. It was the only way she survived. Tragic, but that was the impression TLJ gave me. She always knew the truth, she just couldn't accept it. The dark side cave called out to her and forced her to see two things. First, the subtle silhouette of Ben Solo, which then morphed into countless copies of herself. She is nobody. She came from nothing. Her light rose as Kylo's darkness grew. She is his other half.

I've always said this story is more powerful with Rey as nobody, and I stand by that. Kylo represents all the legacy. Legacy is the weight on his shoulders. The failure of his family revealed fully in TLJ, his grandfather's shadow looming over him all the time. Rey, on the other hand, is only herself.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by BigDeal2187 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:30 pm

The clip of Rey watching the ship fly away in TFA was something of a constructed memory. It never really happened, Rey just couldn't accept it.

@FrolickingFizzgig

Or perhaps it did happen, but it wasn't her parents in the ship after all.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:23 pm

One thing is clear. Whether there is something more about Rey's parentage or not, the message is crystal clear to me: move on from that topic because this is not the key of the story.

In the movie, this is what we get:

Leia's hologram! "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi! You're my only hope!"
==> TLJ Obi-Wan = Luke
==> subtext: please Luke, come to help me!

Rey tending the lightsaber to Luke who doesn't take it:
==> Then, [Ben] is our only hope!
==> Ben Solo canonly named after Obi-Wan Kenobi

For the rest, even if the Kenobi theory is the most convincing to me in case Rey would be related to someone we already know:

1) I maintain that parallels are not necessaily indicative of parentage, i.e. Finn parallels a lot Luke who is not his daddy, and both Mark and John like joking about that one

2) If Kylo lied to her about her parents, we can pretty much say bye bye to Reylo; if Kylo told the truth, it means that Kenobi's spawn dumped his/her own daughter for money. Here is the dilemma! Choose what you prefer. I personally prefer that Kylo told her the truth

It makes sense to me because he plays the role of the therapist during the entire movie. Sure, he is harsh but he proves that he understands her actually better than she does. He f****ing knows that she has been repressing that truth deep inside her and that it needs to come out if she wants to move on and/or resist the DS. And so he is pushing her to her limit long before the proposal happens because already during the shirtless scene, he is telling her something that she knows deep inside her. She calls him a liar...but goes straight to the cave to find answers. Why would she do that if she is so sure that he is a liar? And then, when she confesses to him, you can clearly see that Kylo has tears in his eyes. How awful it would look if it appears that he lied to her and still cried with her as she confessed to him. So I don't think he lied: I think that part of him becomes mad because he sees that she hasn't let go yet and so he is revealing what she ever knew in the harshest way. And in doing that, I think he actually help her to acknowledge what she always knew deep inside her. Proof that it helped: she doesn't seem particularly broken by the revelation in the aftermath. She has pretty much fun on the Falcon, clearly has the upper hand on him in their very last Force-bonding scene and doesn't seem particularly shaken in the last scene in the MF. In other words, the fact that the truth finally came out helped her more than it destroyed her. And she ends up the movie once again reinforced whereas Kylo is more broken than ever. When you think about it, he's constantly helping her - remaining very calm and patient until their last argument - whereas she is constantly shooting first and treating him harsh  when thing don't turn like she want. How does she hope to bring Ben back if she is always losing her temper and her patience when thing don't turn like she want? Ben's calm and patience helped to avoid her fall to the DS but Rey's blindness and aggressiveness didn't help to bring Ben back. She failed and failure is the greatest master.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Darth Dementor on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:39 pm

@Darth Dingbat wrote:
@Gemini wrote:Kylo does lie/bend the truth to serve his own agenda 

He lies/bends the truth  to hux and says rey killed snoke to serve his own agenda 

He bends the truth about luke to get rey to turn on luke and she does

Its not insane to think that he's bending the truth to serve his own agenda with rey in that scene. He even lays out his master plan in the elevator which by using reys weakness of feeling worthless will make her join him
@Gemini

Well, he also lied to Snoke when he said Han Solo means nothing to him. But I think the point was that he hasn't lied to Rey. If he lies to Rey, their connection is pretty pointless, and so is Reylo.
@Darth Dingbat

Not to mention they can read each other's minds. If one was lying the other would instantly know so what would be the point?

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by rey09 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:53 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@BigDeal2187 wrote:
The clip of Rey watching the ship fly away in TFA was something of a constructed memory. It never really happened, Rey just couldn't accept it.

This I'm not so sure about though.  It makes sense that she would have repressed her memory, but why would she trade one bad memory for another?  The young Rey we see in the vision wasn't very happy about the people in the ship (her parents?) leaving her on Jakku. Why would Rey construct such a terrible memory if it didn't happen?  So if, hypothetically, that's what really happened, why then would Kylo/Ben tell her that her parents were dead in a Jakku grave?
@BigDeal2187
Because it was traumatic and she was extremely young. It was the only way she survived. Tragic, but that was the impression TLJ gave me. She always knew the truth, she just couldn't accept it. The dark side cave called out to her and forced her to see two things. First, the subtle silhouette of Ben Solo, which then morphed into countless copies of herself. She is nobody. She came from nothing. Her light rose as Kylo's darkness grew. She is his other half.

I've always said this story is more powerful with Rey as nobody, and I stand by that. Kylo represents all the legacy. Legacy is the weight on his shoulders. The failure of his family revealed fully in TLJ, his grandfather's shadow looming over him all the time. Rey, on the other hand, is only herself.
@FrolickingFizzgig You know what I'm really annoyed about it is we still don't know how Kylo knows about Darth Vader being his grandpa, seeing as how in bloodline he had no idea. ugh
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:05 pm

TLJ Spoiler:
So my initial thoughts on Ben (Kylo’s) revelation to Rey, in TLJ, regarding her parents was that he was outright lying. But then I was thinking, what if he was telling a half-truth?  What if whoever kidnapped Rey sold her to junkers and they, in turn, sold her to Unkar once they got tired of her. She could have been with these people for a while, upwards of a year possibly. Which would be enough time for young Rey to develop some sort attachment to them thus believing they were her real family...

Also, I’m wondering how Ben knows her past? Was it the memories he retrieved from her mind in TFA? Or was “he” the one who sold her to the junkers in the first place? In the novelization of TFA when Rey force grabbed the lightsaber he said “It is you...” as if he recognizes her. We know Ben had a troubled youth which prompted his mother to send him to train with Luke. Could he have been involved with a “space gang” of sorts and got caught up in whatever event that led to Rey’s abduction? That would be one messed up twist for episode 9. Something that would shock the audiences for sure.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:26 pm

I accidentally posted this in the Rey Kenobi No Spoilers thread earlier...Oops! I am reposting it here regarding my thoughts on Kylo’s parentage reveal regarding Rey’s parents ...


So my initial thoughts on Ben (Kylo’s) revelation to Rey, in TLJ, regarding her parents was that he was outright lying. But then I was thinking, what if he was telling a half-truth?  What if whoever kidnapped Rey sold her to junkers and they, in turn, sold her to Unkar once they got tired of her. She could have been with these people for a while, upwards of a year possibly. Which would be enough time for young Rey to develop some sort attachment to them thus believing they were her real family.

Also, I’m wondering how Ben knows her past? Was it the memories he retrieved from her mind in TFA? Or was “he” the one who sold her to the junkers in the first place? In the novelization of TFA when Rey force grabbed the lightsaber he said “It is you...” as if he recognizes her. We know Ben had a troubled youth which prompted his mother to send him to train with Luke. Could he have been involved with a “space gang” of sorts and got caught up in whatever event that led to Rey’s abduction? That would be one messed up twist for episode 9. Something that would shock the audiences for sure.


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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 1:38 am

Okay, so I just read a article by Anthony Breznican regarding Kylo and Rey's bond, Rey's vision and her parentage reveal. What made me roll my eyes was when he quoted Rian Johnson who said that he had no predefined story/information as to where the overall trilogy is headed and that he had free reign so to speak. WTF? Didn't Disney/LF fire the first director of the Han Solo movie because he wasn't  sticking to the direction they wanted the story to go? Also, lets not forget that Colin Trevorrow is no longer directing episode 9. If you look up micromanagement in the Dictionary you might just see Disney and LF listed as examples Razz. All joking aside, Rian most likely had some artistic license on the film. But to believe that they allow each director to make stuff up as they go? The trilogy would be chaos.

I did like AB's thoughts on Rey's vision/cave scene. I agree that Rey seeing multiple variations of herself means something significant to her origins. Just like when Luke saw Vader in his vision, he saw himself. Now anyone who has read/followed my past posts/speculation regarding Rey's origins knows that I think she's Mandalorian. Just like the Achaemenid (Persian) immortal army the Mandos are an ancient, cohesive unit of warriors with battle tactics and armor that makes it very hard to differentiate one warrior from the next. Hence the seemingly endless line of identical Rey's.  Also, when she came to the end of the procession of herself she came to a wall. For me this signifys that someone has blocked her memory of her past/parents. Now whether it's a wall she built herself to cope with the trauma or someone Force planted it, I don't know.

Note: Rey being a Mando would also explain why Maz didn't know who she was by looking into her eyes. How often do you see a Mando without their armor/helmet in the SW universe? Unless they are amongst themselves or in a safe environment.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:46 am

RJ basically saying that rey random is not the definitive answer and he has left it open like a "certain point of view"

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/16/the-last-jedi-spoiler-rey-parents/2/

So no this movie does not answer it completely,  its still ambiguous. Shadow figures merge into rey and the information is told to us but not shown to us,  and we are supposed to take it at face value? .  Its not unreasonable or far fetched at all to dare say the words that rey random might just be a red herring.

I was wrong when I said kylo lied btw rj confirms that kylo also believes  it to be the truth(again interesting choice of  words)  but I was right about him using it to  weaken rey.  Rey random is not used by kylo to give rey strength,  its used  as a weakness and its used to break her down so that she feels worthless and needs him.  Its manipulative.


"But for me, in that moment, Kylo believes it’s the truth,” Johnson added. “I don’t think he’s purely playing chess. I think that’s what he saw when they touched fingers and that’s what he believes. And when he tells her that in that moment, she believes it.”

“I think back to the ‘I am your father’ moment with Vader and Luke, and the reason I think that lands is not because it’s a surprise or a twist but because it’s the hardest thing Luke and thus the audience could hear at that moment,” he added. “It turns someone into a bad guy that you just hate and want to kill into suddenly, Oh my God, this is a part of our protagonist. We have to start thinking of this person in more complex terms. We need to start thinking in terms of a redemption arc.”

“In our movie, it’s kind of the opposite,” Johnsons said. “The easiest thing for Rey and the audience to hear is, Oh yeah, you’re so-and-so’s daughter. That would be wish fulfillment and instantly hand her a place in this story on a silver platter.”

“The hardest thing for her is to hear she’s not going to get that easy answer. Not only that, but Kylo is going to use the fact that you don’t get that answer to try and weaken you so you have to lean on him,” Johnson says. “You’re going to have to find the strength to stand on your own two feet and define yourself in this story.


It is by no means clarified and she still has a whole movie to discover who she may be.

The random answer has incredibly negative repercussion in this movie. Not only for rey but also kylo. Rey random helps the dark side to win. Letting go of the past is not helping kylos character at all.

I don't think I'm alone in the audience where I was sad for rey in this scene and hoped she would be from greatness but she would need to find this herself.  The way kylo broke her here in order to meet his own selfish agenda made me root for the opposite answer to random,  for sure.

http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/16/the-last-jedi-spoiler-rey-parents/2/


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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Kyla Ren on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:06 am

@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:I accidentally posted this in the Rey Kenobi No Spoilers thread earlier...Oops! I am reposting it here regarding my thoughts on Kylo’s parentage reveal regarding Rey’s parents ...


So my initial thoughts on Ben (Kylo’s) revelation to Rey, in TLJ, regarding her parents was that he was outright lying. But then I was thinking, what if he was telling a half-truth?  What if whoever kidnapped Rey sold her to junkers and they, in turn, sold her to Unkar once they got tired of her. She could have been with these people for a while, upwards of a year possibly. Which would be enough time for young Rey to develop some sort attachment to them thus believing they were her real family.

Also, I’m wondering how Ben knows her past? Was it the memories he retrieved from her mind in TFA? Or was “he” the one who sold her to the junkers in the first place? In the novelization of TFA when Rey force grabbed the lightsaber he said “It is you...” as if he recognizes her. We know Ben had a troubled youth which prompted his mother to send him to train with Luke. Could he have been involved with a “space gang” of sorts and got caught up in whatever event that led to Rey’s abduction? That would be one messed up twist for episode 9. Something that would shock the audiences for sure.
@TheBastardofMandalore

I really doubt that Kylo had anything to do with Rey's abandonment.  In the TFA directors' commentary, JJ said that Kylo and Rey had never met before.  I think the "It is you" line from the novelization probably just meant the awakening in the Force that Kylo had felt, or maybe that he had had visions of Rey at some point, just like she had the Forceback vision with Kylo in it.

I was actually kind of hoping that they would explain some of this in TLJ, but so far it seems like some things that were brought up in TFA were just completely ignored or forgotten in TLJ, and who knows if JJ will address them in Episode IX.  Sometimes it really does feel like they're just making things up as they go along, and I find that kind of disconcerting. Neutral
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:50 am

Completing my previous post. There is one part of the topic I haven't mentioned and I have been thinking about this morning.

So IMO there is no way Kylo lied to Rey. And there is also no way that Krnobi's spawn dropped his/her own daughter in the desert. Thinking more deeply about this possibility, there are indeed several things that seem out of place in the truth:

1) We never get to see the actual visions, both from her past and their common future. We only hear what they saw and how they interpret it. So the viewer has no other choice than believing their judgment but this judgment can be uncomplete. So Kylo could have revealed her the truth from a certain point of view because he truly thought they were her parents

2) When Rey confronts the mirror, she hears a female voice calling her name. Reminder that in the novelization, she heard a male voice telling her "Stay here. I'll come back for you. I'll come back sweetheart, I'll promise". It is strange to think that Rey would hear such a soft female voice calling her - probably her mother - to learn later that she was thrown away like garbage.

3) We have spent two years saying that neither Luke nor Leia could be her parents because no parents would dare to let their own child starve on a desert planet

So the only possibility left I see for Rey Kenobi is the following: the persons who dropped her on Jakku...weren't her real parents as both Kylo and Rey interpreted it. The same way they both misinterpreted their vision for the future, they might have both misinterpreted the vision about her parents.

I would say that the strongest advocate for that theory is Colin Trevorrow himself, when he said in January 2016 that he had to practice how to answer that question, suggesting that the audience would get a complete answer in Episode 9:


So maybe there is still hope there. Maybe Rey is a lost Princess like Anastasia or Rapunzel who was stolen to her parents. But we only heard her mother at that point. If Kenobi spawn was Korkie, shouldn't we rather hear her father's voice, like the male voice in the noelization? So other possibility, she is a Cosette and her mother  a Space Fantine who might have let her daughter under the care of some Space Thenardiers who misused her until they finally got rid of her.

Whatever the complete answer is, the message of TLJ is clear: don't give up hope but move on from the parentage for now because this is not the most important thing. What is important is that Rey emphasizes with Kylo because she feels abandoned like he was. And Kylo is gonna fall in love with her no matter what his and her origins are. And this is what is beautiful in the answer we got for now with TLJ.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Kessel on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:56 am

@reylo1992 - I agree there's probably more to Rey's backstory than what she and Kylo believe, but only because it's SW, but if she's a lost princess like Anastasia or Rapunzel, she wasn't abandoned. So that would remove that element from her story and from the empathy she and Kylo relate to in each other (so to speak).

I think whatever the story is, it has to fit with her surpassing her feelings of abandonment and finding her own place in this world.

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 4:58 am

That would also mean that in 2h30 TLJ actually answered no single question I asked myself. Such a waste! I think I'll have some kind of love-hate relationship with that movie
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 5:03 am

@Kessel wrote:@reylo1992 - I agree there's probably more to Rey's backstory than what she and Kylo believe, but only because it's SW, but if she's a lost princess like Anastasia or Rapunzel, she wasn't abandoned. So that would remove that element from her story and from the empathy she and Kylo relate to in each other (so to speak).

I think whatever the story is, it has to fit with her surpassing her feelings of abandonment and finding her own place in this world.
@Kessel

Maybe but the fact that she felt abandoned her all life would have contributed to make Kylo emphasize with her and Rey emphasize with him in return. But anyway, I have always thought that the question of her parentage wasn't that important from the moment I realized what Maz's line means. So if it appears that she is related to someone we know in the end, that is the cherry on the cake. The most important is that she is her own person and I think it's a good thing that the revelation will sort of force the audience and the fandom to focus on other aspects that matter.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Little_Boots on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 8:59 am

@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:
TLJ Spoiler:
So my initial thoughts on Ben (Kylo’s) revelation to Rey, in TLJ, regarding her parents was that he was outright lying. But then I was thinking, what if he was telling a half-truth?  What if whoever kidnapped Rey sold her to junkers and they, in turn, sold her to Unkar once they got tired of her. She could have been with these people for a while, upwards of a year possibly. Which would be enough time for young Rey to develop some sort attachment to them thus believing they were her real family...

Also, I’m wondering how Ben knows her past? Was it the memories he retrieved from her mind in TFA? Or was “he” the one who sold her to the junkers in the first place? In the novelization of TFA when Rey force grabbed the lightsaber he said “It is you...” as if he recognizes her. We know Ben had a troubled youth which prompted his mother to send him to train with Luke. Could he have been involved with a “space gang” of sorts and got caught up in whatever event that led to Rey’s abduction? That would be one messed up twist for episode 9. Something that would shock the audiences for sure.
@TheBastardofMandalore

Spoiler:
It could be all that, or it could be that the planet she grew up on might have that situation happen all the time.
Kylo told Rey she knows the truth.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Little_Boots on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:39 pm

If Kylo lied to Rey about her parents or said what he said to manipulate her etc....she is gonna be pissed! Thats a pretty s*** move from Kylo so I am going with Rey Nobody
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:48 pm

@Little_Boots wrote:If Kylo lied to Rey about her parents or said what he said to manipulate her etc....she is gonna be pissed! Thats a pretty s*** move from Kylo so I am going with Rey Nobody
@Little_Boots

Rj has said he believed it to be true in that moment and so did she (theres a difference between believing and knowing) believing would indicate something ain't quite right with what they both saw.

But rj has also said kylo  is using a lack of an easy answer  to weaken her and make her feel like she has to lean on him now.

She should be pissed enough at that display of emotional manipulation. Its not a good or liberating thing he is saying to her in this scene. Its bad and rj has confirmed it was used negatively not positively in that moment

I'm honestly failing to see the beauty and excitement of rey random right now. Maybe jj can fix that...
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:55 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@Little_Boots wrote:If Kylo lied to Rey about her parents or said what he said to manipulate her etc....she is gonna be pissed! Thats a pretty s*** move from Kylo so I am going with Rey Nobody
@Little_Boots

Rj has said he believed it to be true in that moment and so did she (theres a difference between believing and knowing) believing would indicate something ain't quite right with what they both saw.

But rj has also said kylo  is using a lack of an easy answer  to weaken her and make her feel like she has to lean on him now.

She should be pissed enough at that display of emotional manipulation. Its not a good or liberating thing he is saying to her in this scene.
@Gemini
She does exactly the same thing to him when she says "I feel the conflict him you" and "I can help you". She gets close to him and tries to appeal to his light. It's not about real-world manipulation. They both believe their visions are the truth. For Kylo, Rey turning and fighting at his side. For Rey, Kylo turning and fighting at hers. They have different approaches, but both are trying to get the other to lean on them.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 3:28 pm

@Gemini wrote:
@Little_Boots wrote:If Kylo lied to Rey about her parents or said what he said to manipulate her etc....she is gonna be pissed! Thats a pretty s*** move from Kylo so I am going with Rey Nobody
@Little_Boots

Rj has said he believed it to be true in that moment and so did she (theres a difference between believing and knowing) believing would indicate something ain't quite right with what they both saw.

But rj has also said kylo  is using a lack of an easy answer  to weaken her and make her feel like she has to lean on him now.

She should be pissed enough at that display of emotional manipulation. Its not a good or liberating thing he is saying to her in this scene. Its bad and rj has confirmed it was used negatively not positively in that moment

I'm honestly failing to see the beauty and excitement of rey random right now.  Maybe jj can fix that...
@Gemini

It depends what kind of answer Trevorrow was supposed to bring regarding her origins in Episode 9. If I remember well, TLJ script was finished in January 2016 and Trevorrow stated that he had to practice how to answer that question also in January 2016. Had he read the script yet? Maybe, maybe not. And then, was he supposed to provide an answer about parentage or connection to the Force?

For me, nothing is definitely settled. But I think that Rey random is satisfying for now because I got tired of journalists constantly focusing on her origin. I would say it's 50/50 after TLJ regarding the parentage because TLJ didn't show us the vision but the interpretation of visions. There is the benefit of doubt because there is still a possibility that we don' know the full truth. I still don't think that Kylo willingly lied to her: I rather think he panicked and stressed what he believed was the truth to push her to move on and accept he is her future destiny. This is also what the mirror shows her: two shadows that merge into one single shadow whose shape looks like Kylo and reaches out to her with the hand.

Now, it depends what is the message of the trilogy. There is definitely the idea of balance. But TLJ also makes it clear that the Force is so much bigger than the Jedi because the Jedi are kinda elitist. At least, this is how I understand it. There is this strong message in TLJ that you may be a nobody but you can become somebody. This applies to TLJ Rey the scavenger, Rose the mechanic and even more important: the Broomboy in the ending scene.

When Luke says that he won't be the Last Jedi, I think that it refers to Rey but it also refers to something bigger. Connecting to the Force and/or becoming a hero is not the prerogative of the Jedi and/or from your legacy. The Jedi weren't supposed to have children anyway. So even if FS people can have FS children, we know that the ability to connect with the Force is not necessarily a question of lineage. So making Rey a random as opposition to Kylo Ren - grandchild of the Chosen One, grandchild of Queen Amidala, son of Princess Leia, son of galaxy-wide smuggler Han Solo and nephew of legendary Luke Skywalker - counterbalances the whole legacy theme of SW. There is this idea that SW and the Force ain't meant to be a closed society. It fits with this idea of general inclusivity and more opened society: more women, more interracial people, more low-born people, more nobodies who become somebody, etc... In the PT, Anakin was a low-born but as the Chosen One he was born from immaculate conception;  in the OT, Luke was raised low-born but discovered he was the son of the legendary Anakin Sywalker/Darth Vader; in the ST, Kylo Ren embodies all alone the entire legacy of his family.

So where does fit Rey in this puzzle? If the message in TLJ is that for the first time in the SW franchise, we may have a true nobody meant to become somebody, does it still make sense to change that message in revealing that she is actually connected to someone of great importance and/or someone we already know? Maybe that Trevorrow simply meant that Rey is important to the galaxy because by counterbalancing the bearer of a great  legacy, she would embody an opened vision of the Force in which true nobodies can become somebody. If not her, who would?

IMO, the movie sent the following message. We all built great and complex theories and the answer we got were actually simpler than we thought. Making Rey a random in the context of TLJ  was a way to contradict people who thought that given her power she has to be related to someone of great importance and/or someone we already know. Now, is it the full truth? Let's see.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by fuhry on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 12:50 pm

Thanks for your thoughts, everybody.

Here's my current mindstate on this issue:

1. I don't think Kylo lied to her, I think Kylo told what he perceived (and maybe hoped?) to be the truth. My impression is that Kylo doesn't have any information other than what he has sensed in her own head through the force. I don't think that seeing the ship fly away in her TFA vision is out of step with that. My takeaway is that someone sold her to Unkar Plutt in exchange for passage off the planet, or something like that. And those people are perceived by Kylo to be her parents. That is Rey's worst fear.

2. The change in language is interesting. In TFA Rey says she is waiting for her family, having a lot of hope that "They'll be back". In TLJ, she's asking about her parents, and the answer is very sketchy. All we've been shown (and all Rey's been shown) in response is a disembodied voice, and a reflection of herself. If she was 4 or 5 years old when her 'family' when she got left with Unkar Plutt, why would she be asking who her parents are? Wouldn't she remember them? If those people that left her with Plutt are her parents, she would know "My parents were those people that left in the spaceship when I was 5 and said they would be back". But she doesn't - she refers to those folks as her 'family'. She's already been told by Maz Kanata, a force sensitive, that the people she's waiting for (also not called her parents by Maz) are never coming back. Now, she's asking about her parents, as if she knows the distinction. Her worst fear is that her actual parents sold her for junk to the people she remembers as her 'family', who then left her with Plutt. That, I think, is what Kylo picks up on. I think the clear message is that Rey has absolutely no memory of her actual parents.

3. Rey's heritage doesn't really matter to the plot of this film - it's about the bond between Rey and Kylo and the coming together of their stories under the backdrop of the First Order driving the Resistance to the brink of extinction. We learn background information about Kylo (how the temple destruction went down, the extent of the Snoke influence), but we learn next to nothing about Rey's history. They seem to have used quite a bit of screen time to drive that point home - Rey has no history. The only plot purpose of that is that Kylo uses it to try to get her to join him. For Kylo, family is in the past - he's now concerned with his own destiny as he's rejected them. For Rey, family is not in the past, only the very distant past, and her family, for all practical purposes, is Finn, Chewie, and BB-8. The fact that she's not a Skywalker or a Solo makes her heritage kind of irrelevant to anyone in the film.

4. The interesting thing about a Kenobi heritage possibility is that it surely would not be important to TLJ, and also, it's reveal would have to involve a lot more than the reveal of her parents. It would need to reveal a whole family. I'm not sure if they want to do that in IX, though it could make for a cool movie. Maybe they've put the issue to bed. But TFA, coming as it did after 30 years of untold history, hinted backstory for Kylo and hinted backstory for Rey. We've gotten some of that Kylo backstory. Is Rey's part in her own force vision (particularly when she sees the Clan leader murdered by the red blade right over her) just going to be left dangling in the air? Maybe, but if not, and they're still planning to explore it, I think Kenobi / Kryze / Mandalore is still the best bet, and the only one left that makes any sense. The Resistance needs help. Lando and his fleet of mining ships aren't going to be dropping out of hyperspace any time soon (or maybe they will!). A family of bad*** Mandalorians might help.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by BigDeal2187 on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 2:10 pm

I like your style @fuhry
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Sacrebleu on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 3:36 pm

My interpretation of the parentage reveal scene was that Kylo had seen the truth in her mind when their hands touched, but she had suppressed it all those years. He is encouraging her to finally reveal it to herself, and let it go. And she actually makes the first reveal. He tells her she knows, and she responds, "They were nobody." He then expands on it, that they were junkers who sold her, but the knowledge was already in her.
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