The Rey Kenobi Files

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by TheBastardofMandalore on Mon 18 Dec 2017, 7:19 pm

@fuhry
“The Resistance needs help. Lando and his fleet of mining ships aren't going to be dropping out of hyperspace any time soon (or maybe they will!). A family of bad*** Mandalorians might help”

Agreed! It would be very fitting if the Mandos stepped in to help the Resistance. They are revered warriors that have survived the devastating battles of the Old Republic, the New Repubic and the Empire. Whereas, the Jedi and Sith have since perished. They are the last of the original big three legendary super powers so to speak. If anyone can inspire hope and a full scale intergalactic uprising against the First Order it would be the Mandalorians.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by fuhry on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 9:50 am

@TheBastardofMandalore wrote:@fuhry
“The Resistance needs help. Lando and his fleet of mining ships aren't going to be dropping out of hyperspace any time soon (or maybe they will!). A family of bad*** Mandalorians might help”

Agreed! It would be very fitting if the Mandos stepped in to help the Resistance. They are revered warriors that have survived the devastating battles of the Old Republic, the New Repubic and the Empire. Whereas, the Jedi and Sith have since perished. They are the last of the original big three legendary super powers so to speak. If anyone can inspire hope and a full scale intergalactic uprising against the First Order it would be the Mandalorians.
@TheBastardofMandalore

EXACTLY! And the Mandalorians struggled to remain neutral in the Clone Wars, which I think, fits in with the way the story is going. In the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil war, you had Jedi on one side, Sith on the other. But I think in TLJ we've seen these two sides, both getting people killed, which rich folk on Canto Bight profit. We've seen the legendary Luke Skywalker, completely disillusioned with the Jedi and the use of the force as some sort of superpowers. I think it's interesting that Luke has figured out what brought down the Jedi. Against this backdrop, the two force-sensitive leads are connecting with each other - they're negotiating - they're rising above the conflict that is using them. The triumph of the light side is not a resistance victory - it's the end of war. And the best way to end these wars is to stop the involvement of force-sensitive individuals in one side or another, or in any over-arching central Galactic government. The Mandolorians are powerful warriors who have always been suspicious of the Jedi and reluctant to put their war skills to use for some larger galactic conflict. I think we're seeing in canon that the Clone Wars and the Galactic Civil War tore the Mandalorians apart. Where are they during the time of the ST? I'm very curious.

And I think the reason the Kenobi lineage works here is that we are introduced to Obi-wan as a bitter idealist, fiercely loyal to the Republic and to the Jedi, and really hateful toward the Empire. He's still fighting that war, so much so that he lies to young Luke to manipulate him over to his side so that he'll kill Vader. Obi-wan got his wish, as the Empire was banished and the big ol' Galactic Republic restored. As it turns out, that worked out terribly. The Rebellion/Republic/Resistance is down to a handful of people on the Millennium Falcon.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

@Sacrebleu wrote:My interpretation of the parentage reveal scene was that Kylo had seen the truth in her mind when their hands touched, but she had suppressed it all those years.  He is encouraging her to finally reveal it to herself, and let it go.  And she actually makes the first reveal.  He tells her she knows, and she responds, "They were nobody."  He then expands on it, that they were junkers who sold her, but the knowledge was already in her.
@Sacrebleu
Not only that, but Rian said in a recent interview that he and JJ came up with the same idea for Rey's background. She was "Rey Nobody" to both of them, and I can't see JJ suddenly changing that. They were in complete agreement that the most powerful and difficult thing for Rey to hear was that she doesn't fit neatly into the story because of a familial connection. She isn't the daughter of the Skywalker hero or the granddaughter of the Jedi master who taught Anakin or the Sith lord who created Vader. She is nobody, a junker from Jakku who would have thrown away her life waiting had the events of TFA not shattered her lonely existence.

The irony in it is that her light rose to meet Ben Solo's darkness. They are the story, not Rey Kenobi or Rey Skywalker or Rey Palpatine. It's all about their connection in the Force, their intertwined destiny.

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Xylo Ren on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:15 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

THIS. I spoke to someone yesterday who hated the parentage reveal, "She was supposed to be related to someone special!!111!!!!" I just about rolled my eyes. I LOVE that Rian had Luke throw the lightsaber over his shoulder like a piece of garbage, and I LOVE he had Rey's parents come from trash themselves. It's such a slap in the face.

Loved it. You don't have to be related to someone special to be special. Sometimes you can just be Smile
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:32 am

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

THIS. I spoke to someone yesterday who hated the parentage reveal, "She was supposed to be related to someone special!!111!!!!" I just about rolled my eyes. I LOVE that Rian had Luke throw the lightsaber over his shoulder like a piece of garbage, and I LOVE he had Rey's parents come from trash themselves. It's such a slap in the face.

Loved it. You don't have to be related to someone special to be special. Sometimes you can just be Smile
@Xylo Ren
And it still lines up beautifully with Ring Composition because Rey has that connection to the last Skywalker. She doesn't have to come from anywhere or be related to anyone special. She is special because of the choices she makes, the connections she forms, the light that grew so powerful within her to counter Kylo's darkness. It all comes full-circle in the most poignant way. I love it.

Snoke even says that he assumed Skywalker's light would clash with Kylo's darkness. He assumed wrongly.


Last edited by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by fuhry on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:34 am

@Xylo Ren wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

THIS. I spoke to someone yesterday who hated the parentage reveal, "She was supposed to be related to someone special!!111!!!!" I just about rolled my eyes. I LOVE that Rian had Luke throw the lightsaber over his shoulder like a piece of garbage, and I LOVE he had Rey's parents come from trash themselves. It's such a slap in the face.

Loved it. You don't have to be related to someone special to be special. Sometimes you can just be Smile
@Xylo Ren

I mean, I love that, I really do. I think that's a great message. But I'm having a hard time figuring out where the story goes from here if Rey's past and background is closed. Her force sensitivity knocked her for a loop in TFA, her connection to Kylo knocked her for a loop in TLJ, what's going to knock her a loop in IX?
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Sacrebleu on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:36 am

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Not only that, but Rian said in a recent interview that he and JJ came up with the same idea for Rey's background. She was "Rey Nobody" to both of them, and I can't see JJ suddenly changing that. They were in complete agreement that the most powerful and difficult thing for Rey to hear was that she doesn't fit neatly into the story because of a familial connection. She isn't the daughter of the Skywalker hero or the granddaughter of the Jedi master who taught Anakin or the Sith lord who created Vader. She is nobody, a junker from Jakku who would have thrown away her life waiting had the events of TFA not shattered her lonely existence.

The irony in it is that her light rose to meet Ben Solo's darkness. They are the story, not Rey Kenobi or Rey Skywalker or Rey Palpatine. It's all about their connection in the Force, their intertwined destiny.

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I have been surprised to be reading so many fans saying Rey's powers remain unexplained because she's not a Skywalker.  I thought Snoke spelled it out very clearly.  Snoke knew that as Kylo's dark powers increased, the Force would balance that with his counterpart in the light.  "Darkness rises and light to meet it." He further states he assumed it would be Luke Skywalker but instead it was Rey. At least that's how I heard it.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 10:54 am

@fuhry wrote:
@Xylo Ren wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

THIS. I spoke to someone yesterday who hated the parentage reveal, "She was supposed to be related to someone special!!111!!!!" I just about rolled my eyes. I LOVE that Rian had Luke throw the lightsaber over his shoulder like a piece of garbage, and I LOVE he had Rey's parents come from trash themselves. It's such a slap in the face.

Loved it. You don't have to be related to someone special to be special. Sometimes you can just be Smile
@Xylo Ren

I mean, I love that, I really do. I think that's a great message. But I'm having a hard time figuring out where the story goes from here if Rey's past and background is closed. Her force sensitivity knocked her for a loop in TFA, her connection to Kylo knocked her for a loop in TLJ, what's going to knock her a loop in IX?
@fuhry
Honestly? Nothing new has to throw her for a loop. The events of the middle chapter tore apart and challenged our protagonists. The finale is where we find the resolutions to the conflicts raised in Act I and Act II. Narratively all the major cards have been played at this stage -- Rey and Kylo, the f***-ups of the Skywalker family, the fact that this can no longer just be the story of the Resistance crushing the First Order and partying on Endor in the wake of victory. Everything we need to understand the conclusion is in TFA and TLJ.

Think about it this way. VIII gave us more than enough to chew on going forward, just as Empire did that for Luke. What matters is her relationship with Ben/Kylo. That is the connection that has been given narrative significance, what with the budding romantic feelings, the breaking the lightsaber and the slamming of the door. All the stakes lie on the two of them and the overall redemption of the Skywalker family.

I fail to see how a retcon-based "Never mind all that stuff we said in TFA and TLJ. Here you go, Rey. This is how you fit into the story" would be anything beyond horrible writing. In my experience stories don't work like this. It would undermine not only Rey's journey thus far, but the fundamental message behind her whole character and the entirety of the Sequel Trilogy.

Leia said it at the end of the film. We have everything we need. Now we just have to resolve the conflict.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 11:59 am

@fuhry wrote:
@Darth Rowan wrote:
@fuhry wrote:OK, so the Dark Side force cave showed her nothing but her own reflection, and unstable, selfish Kylo who is afraid to cede any power to her convinces her that her parents sold her to Plutt for an eighth of pot and transport off the planet.

I'm not buying it people!   I don't know who those people were that sold her to Unkar Plutt, but I say they weren't her parents, and even if they were, they weren't her grandparents!
@fuhry

I’m with you that there’s probably more to Rey’s parentage than TLJ lets on, but I don’t think Kylo Ren would knowingly lie to Rey. He doesn’t lie, if anything he uses his sincerity like a hammer to bash people with lol.
@Darth Rowan

Well, maybe he doesn't lie to her but he makes suggestions.  "You know I can take what I want."    The truth of it is that Rey may be wondering "Can he take what he wants?"   Similarly, he says "You already know the answer - your parents were lowlifes that sold you off".  Probably in Rey's brain, it's a question - "Were my parents lowlifes that sold me off"?  And I think Kylo wants to convince her she has nothing, no connection, because he wants her to accept the connection he is offering (where he gets to hold the weapons and decide where to fire them in the name of eradicating the past).  Come to think of it Maz does the same thing "You already know the answer".  But that's talking about 'family' and not 'parents'.  But I guess it just depends on whether the suggester has an agenda.

There's nothing wrong with having her come from insignificant parentage, part of me likes it (Kylo would say "You already know you like it").  And there was no narrative purpose, in this movie, of exposing her parentage.  But I kind of feel it still seems open ended.
@fuhry

Regarding this

Judging by what rj has said recently. Like his wording of what transpired is totally telling.

Kylo believes in that moment that what he saw in reys mind was true and in that moment she believes him when he says it to her.

Which indicates very strongly that its very ambiguous still and the tale of what her "parents did to her" is from "a certain point of view " which both believe to be true.  Or as rj says,  kylo believes it and this makes her believe it.

The word believe is not the same as knowing for sure.  You can believe in god but that doesn't make it a certainty.  

Why in high heaven did rj drop that line when answering if her parents were most certainly nobodies.

He also explains that the scene was meant to be used as the hardest thing for her to hear at that moment. And also he say that she won't get the answer that easily. That alone indicates that there is still an answer which is unexplored that she will find but she won't get it easily.


Rj said its a process of discovery for her.. There wasn't much of a discovery going on if "she's always known"

Nay

My opinion is that she has to discover more to get the full answer

And you are right parents can still be nobodies if they were unaware of who they actually are.

Obi wan dove into water and emerged,  this marked the moment he began to leave his identity and eventually go into hiding as a nobody.

Rey falls into water,  emerges and her fears of being a nobody manifest and this is when the kenobi hints in tlj stop (they are there quite clearly still) and she starts to believe she is a nobody
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:21 pm

Okay but Rian and JJ came to the same conclusion about Rey's background. Does that give you the impression that JJ is going to suddenly uproot that and undermine the fundamental message behind Rey's character? I don't think so.

Daisy has known the answer since TFA, and although it wasn't necessarily set in stone, JJ and Rian both agreed that Rey should be nobody.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Darth Rowan on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:26 pm

@Gemini I've said this elsewhere but I'm almost resigned to the fact that most likely we'll learn that Kylo Ren told the truth because Rey's FOSTER parents were deadbeat scavengers who sold her for drinking money, but her real REAL parent is descendant of Boba Fett/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Qui-Gon/Palpatine/The Force/King Prana. Honestly with the ambiguity in TLJ and the anything goes approach in the ST this is perfectly plausible and personally I hate that it's the case. I'm so done with this parentage enigma.

The best thing about "I am your father" is that once Luke verified it with Yoda, that was that - everything is clear, not need to keep wondering, case closed.

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Okay but Rian and JJ came to the same conclusion about Rey's background. Does that give you the impression that JJ is going to suddenly uproot that and undermine the fundamental message behind Rey's character?
@FrolickingFizzgig

Going by what I saw in TLJ? A resounding YES to that. The past is past, we only care about the future and anything goes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:31 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:@Gemini I've said this elsewhere but I'm almost resigned to the fact that most likely we'll learn that Kylo Ren told the truth because Rey's FOSTER parents were deadbeat scavengers who sold her for drinking money, but her real REAL parent is descendant of Boba Fett/Obi-Wan Kenobi/Qui-Gon/Palpatine/The Force/King Prana. Honestly with the ambiguity in TLJ and the anything goes approach in the ST this is perfectly plausible and personally I hate that it's the case. I'm so done with this parentage enigma.

The best thing about "I am your father" is that once Luke verified it with Yoda, that was that - everything is clear, not need to keep wondering, case closed.

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:Okay but Rian and JJ came to the same conclusion about Rey's background. Does that give you the impression that JJ is going to suddenly uproot that and undermine the fundamental message behind Rey's character?
@FrolickingFizzgig

Going by what I saw in TLJ? A resounding YES to that. The past is past, we only care about the future and anything goes. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@Darth Rowan
I think you misunderstood me completely. Rey's story in both TFA and TLJ presented the core message that the past is in the past. Her parents didn't want her. End of story. It doesn't matter anymore.

JJ has said many times that he considers the Force to be inclusive. Rian obviously had the same idea. I for one would be shocked if they shoved in a random parentage reveal into the last film. Rey's whole character represents the total opposite of that idea.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Darth Rowan on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:34 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig  I understood you, I just don't agree. I wish that I could have your trust and optimism, but I am naturally cynical and TLJ has enhanced that quality. Yes to all you're saying, but equally yes: "From a certain point of view" is a convenient solution in Star Wars. "Always in motion the future is, difficult to predict" is also a thing. They can always say that they intended for Rey to be legacy, but wanted to also highlight that it would have been just fine if she was a random because they have committed to nothing and nothing is set in stone.

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:36 pm

Fizz

Rj uprooted everything jj set out about snoke and rey and everything else so at this point i wouldn't be so sure that anything in this trilogy is set in stone
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by FrolickingFizzgig on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:41 pm

@Darth Rowan wrote:@FrolickingFizzgig  I understood you, I just don't agree. I wish that I could have your trust and optimism, but I am naturally cynical and TLJ has enhanced that quality. Yes to all you're saying, but equally yes: "From a certain point of view" is a convenient solution in Star Wars. "Always in motion the future is, difficult to predict" is also a thing. They can always say that they intended for Rey to be legacy, but wanted to also highlight that it would have been just fine if she was a random because they have committed to nothing and nothing is set in stone.
@Darth Rowan
I wouldn't be upset if she was revealed to be a Kenobi in IX as long as it's handled well, I just can't see how it could be at this stage. Not without making the whole story look stupid.

She's definitely not related to Kylo sooo *shrug*.

I will say that I loved TLJ so our perspectives are going to differ automatically.

@Gemini
How in hell did Rian uproot everything? Because Snoke was nobody important (TFA never said he was, fans did) or because Rey didn't come from a legacy (TFA never said she did, fans decided that too)?

1) Luke disappointed Rey and failed his nephew. A+ continuity, perfect for character development.
2) Rey and Kylo's relationship is forefront and left even more vital at the end. A+ continuity, perfect for character development.
3) Finn had to sneak back in the Supremacy, face the duality of war and confront Phasma. A+ continuity, great for character development.
4) Kylo grew up a little and overcame Snoke as a result of Rey's support, but ultimately failed again because the story isn't over. A+ continuity.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Darth Rowan on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:46 pm

A reminder that this thread is about Rey Kenobi and Rey's parentage, not a debate about why TLJ sucks or why it's awesome, so let's keep it on topic. There are other places to get into TLJ itself.

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by ZioRen on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 12:56 pm

@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:My interpretation of the parentage reveal scene was that Kylo had seen the truth in her mind when their hands touched, but she had suppressed it all those years.  He is encouraging her to finally reveal it to herself, and let it go.  And she actually makes the first reveal.  He tells her she knows, and she responds, "They were nobody."  He then expands on it, that they were junkers who sold her, but the knowledge was already in her.
@Sacrebleu
Not only that, but Rian said in a recent interview that he and JJ came up with the same idea for Rey's background. She was "Rey Nobody" to both of them, and I can't see JJ suddenly changing that. They were in complete agreement that the most powerful and difficult thing for Rey to hear was that she doesn't fit neatly into the story because of a familial connection. She isn't the daughter of the Skywalker hero or the granddaughter of the Jedi master who taught Anakin or the Sith lord who created Vader. She is nobody, a junker from Jakku who would have thrown away her life waiting had the events of TFA not shattered her lonely existence.

The irony in it is that her light rose to meet Ben Solo's darkness. They are the story, not Rey Kenobi or Rey Skywalker or Rey Palpatine. It's all about their connection in the Force, their intertwined destiny.

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree with all of this, but it's also why I think it's vital that they not end the Skywalker line in the ST. This is a great message, but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There's room for this to be the story of a "nobody" who was never really nobody, because nobody is nobody (this is such an eloquent way I'm putting this), meeting her full potential through her own power, and the story of a boy tortured by an overwhelming lineage that has both elevated and destroyed his family for generations finding a balance within himself, and thus for his entire family. 

Basically, I think that a lot of people will come out of this trilogy incredibly bitter at what should be a beautiful journey of Rey's if it means the iconic Skywalker line comes to an end to further that story and message. Even if the ending of the Skywalker line is done in a poignant and peaceful way, the bitterness will still be there for a lot of fans. So I hope LF doesn't do that, even if they never plan to tell another story involving a Skywalker again.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by BigDeal2187 on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 1:32 pm

The frustration that a lot of us feel is that on the one hand it's clear that RJ very much intended to convey the message that goes along with a Rey nobody reveal, while on the other hand the way Rey's parentage/lineage has been hidden from and revealed to us has such an Anastasia feel to it.  I find it rather amusing and painful at the same time that while the evidence continues to mount against Rey being a Kenobi that so too do the parallels to Obi-Wan.  It's just so hard to predict whether the Rey nobody message was intended for TLJ only or whether it's intended for the entire ST.  Rey being a nobody subverts a lot of tropes in an interesting way but it makes her connection/bond to the grandson of Darth Vader entirely arbitrary from an in-universe point of view (although the creative decisions for it are quite clearly conveyed in TLJ) since there are many other "Rey nobodies" in the Star Wars galaxy.

If TLJ taught me anything it's not to create too many expectations (even though most of them were met, just not the one I was hoping for the most).
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by fuhry on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 1:34 pm

The Skywalker line won't really end in IX, even though Kylo dies, because his child that Rey is carrying will live, but the child won't have the Skywalker name, because the Mandalorian culture is matrilineal, and the child will take Rey's name, which is the name of whomever Korkie Kryze married.  Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 4:59 pm

I don't think that the ship in reys vision was something she made up for 3 reasons:

1.That vision was not compiled of her own memories. The vision was being shown to her by (arguably) obi wan "rey these are your first steps" this line is said by obi wan right after the abandonment is shown to her.

2. In the vison being shown to her in tfa,  adult Rey looks at the ship  like she has never seen it before/doesn't remember it

3. Rj said he studied the vision sequence intensly when writing her lineage .. Well he certainly didn't match his version up with it.

.so one of them is not the true point of view

My bets are on the ambiguous, dark side/snoke influenced one in tlj and not the version shown to rey by (seemingly)  obi wan in tfa. That was not a memory of hers it was being shown to her.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Gemini on Tue 19 Dec 2017, 6:04 pm

And this is a loony theory but

The trailer suggests that when snoke first found ben /turned ben he saw kylos power yada yada and then saw something truly special beyond that.. Cut to rey. This line is also in the movie

When snoke got his claws in ben,  Rey would have been 5.. Just around the time of abandonment

If snoke has been aware of rey since 5 years old,  could he have been manipulating her mind since childhood too?

Reylo have always been connected from before snoke found ben and snoke has always been manipulating them since he got his claws in ben?  Because what she is shown in the saber vision is not the same as her own memories.

Killing snoke like this may be another ploy to throw you off the scent.  And he actually did have a much bigger role in all this

Snoke wanted Vader... Well he forgot that Vader also killed his master palpatine. Silly snoke Laughing
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by fuhry on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 9:22 am

@BigDeal2187 wrote:The frustration that a lot of us feel is that on the one hand it's clear that RJ very much intended to convey the message that goes along with a Rey nobody reveal, while on the other hand the way Rey's parentage/lineage has been hidden from and revealed to us has such an Anastasia feel to it.  I find it rather amusing and painful at the same time that while the evidence continues to mount against Rey being a Kenobi that so too do the parallels to Obi-Wan.  It's just so hard to predict whether the Rey nobody message was intended for TLJ only or whether it's intended for the entire ST.  Rey being a nobody subverts a lot of tropes in an interesting way but it makes her connection/bond to the grandson of Darth Vader entirely arbitrary from an in-universe point of view (although the creative decisions for it are quite clearly conveyed in TLJ) since there are many other "Rey nobodies" in the Star Wars galaxy.

If TLJ taught me anything it's not to create too many expectations (even though most of them were met, just not the one I was hoping for the most).
@BigDeal2187

I think you really nailed it here. I will say, that although the evidence may be mounting against any lineage for Rey to a legacy character, I think the Kenobi / Mandalorian lineage is the only one left that could possibly make any kind of narrative sense. Rewwalker and Rey Solo are totally dead. As for Rey Palpatine, after TLJ I really don't see any emotional impact of that one.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 9:49 am

@Gemini wrote:And this is a loony theory but

The trailer suggests that when snoke first found ben /turned ben he saw kylos power yada yada and then saw something truly special beyond that.. Cut to rey. This line is also in the movie

When snoke got his claws in ben,  Rey would have been 5.. Just around the time of abandonment

If snoke has been aware of rey since 5 years old,  could he have been manipulating her mind since childhood too?

Reylo have always been connected from before snoke found ben and snoke has always been manipulating them since he got his claws in ben?  Because what she is shown in the saber vision is not the same as her own memories.

Killing snoke like this may be another ploy to throw you off the scent.  And he actually did have a much bigger role in all this

Snoke wanted Vader... Well he forgot that Vader also killed his master palpatine. Silly snoke Laughing
@Gemini

Can't agree more about that one Gem Very Happy

I was disappointed in how Rian made Snoke looks so stupid. Serkis told us how great Snoke is, how much he is aware of the past to a great level, etc... It is canon that the guy is completely aware that Vader killed Palpatine because of sentiment, and made exactly the same with Kylo.

Aside from that, it seems that Snoke was aware of "darkness rising and light to meet it". So he was aware that Kylo would be that darkness rising but it doesn't seem like he identified Rey as the light counterpart rising to meet it. Instead, he identified Luke as this light counterpart and it is clear that his intention was to kill him in order to avoid the balance. So it doesn't seem that Rey was meant to play a specific role in his agenda or that he even knew about her existence before he saw Kylo's connection to her. I was also expecting that he could have played a part in her background, i.e. whatever happened to her family, but it doesn't seems like this is the case either.

TLJ wasn't very good in tying things alltogether IMO.

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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by reylo1992 on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:15 am

@fuhry wrote:
@BigDeal2187 wrote:The frustration that a lot of us feel is that on the one hand it's clear that RJ very much intended to convey the message that goes along with a Rey nobody reveal, while on the other hand the way Rey's parentage/lineage has been hidden from and revealed to us has such an Anastasia feel to it.  I find it rather amusing and painful at the same time that while the evidence continues to mount against Rey being a Kenobi that so too do the parallels to Obi-Wan.  It's just so hard to predict whether the Rey nobody message was intended for TLJ only or whether it's intended for the entire ST.  Rey being a nobody subverts a lot of tropes in an interesting way but it makes her connection/bond to the grandson of Darth Vader entirely arbitrary from an in-universe point of view (although the creative decisions for it are quite clearly conveyed in TLJ) since there are many other "Rey nobodies" in the Star Wars galaxy.

If TLJ taught me anything it's not to create too many expectations (even though most of them were met, just not the one I was hoping for the most).
@BigDeal2187

I think you really nailed it here. I will say, that although the evidence may be mounting against any lineage for Rey to a legacy character, I think the Kenobi / Mandalorian lineage is the only one left that could possibly make any kind of narrative sense. Rewwalker and Rey Solo are totally dead. As for Rey Palpatine, after TLJ I really don't see any emotional impact of that one.
@fuhry

I think that everything remains very open aside from ReySkywalker/ReySolo

It depends very much on whether the vision Kylo saw is the definitive truth or there is more behind this. If there's something more behind, it can only work IMO if it is ultimately revealed that the persons who dropped Rey weren't her real parents, which isn't impossible because it's hard for me to imagine that parents would sell their own child to someone like Unkar Plutt (although abandoned child is also a big component of fairytales)

There is no way that Kylo willingly lied to her and there is an important detail about his revelation: he didn't say that he saw her family, he said that he saw her parents. That's an important detail because it means that he saw a man and a woman together dropping her on Jakku. If Kylo had seen a single man/woman or a whole gang dropping her on Jakku, he could have been suspicious whether there was something more behind this or not. But the fact that he saw a couple led him to assume that there were her parents.

So if this couple weren't her real parents, the only option that I see right now is that they were Space Thenardier who were in charge of Space Cosette and dropped her for money. Except that Unkar Plutt wasn't Space Valjean. Then, who is Space Fantine, knowing that if I remember well she hears a female voice calling her name in the cave?

At that point, I consider that everything remains open:

1) Rey Kenobi would make sense in regard to all the parallels and the fact that Rey is now identified as the light meeting the darkness rising, very much like Obi-Wan meeting rising Darth Vader. But no way that they would make Obi-Wan's spawn a jerk abandoning his daughter for drinking money.

2) Rey Palpatine would make sense if we focus on the Romeo & Juliet dimension of Reylo. A son of the light rising as darkness and a daughter of the darkness rising as light. And I would rather imagine such a tragic background for a Palpatine's spawn than a Kenobi.

3) Rey, descendant of the Whills (or whatever ancient lineage related to the origins of the Force). After TLJ, I had completely lost faith in possible parallels with Atlantis - The Lost Empire and/or The Castle in the Sky but the working title of Episode 9 - Dark crystal - gave me faith again that wecould possibly have this final revelation.

For now, I am very satisfied with the idea of Rey Random, a girl who had no place in that story focusing on the Skywalker and who will ultimately find her place.
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Re: The Rey Kenobi Files

Post by Kessel on Wed 20 Dec 2017, 10:59 am

@ZioRen wrote:
@FrolickingFizzgig wrote:
@Sacrebleu wrote:My interpretation of the parentage reveal scene was that Kylo had seen the truth in her mind when their hands touched, but she had suppressed it all those years.  He is encouraging her to finally reveal it to herself, and let it go.  And she actually makes the first reveal.  He tells her she knows, and she responds, "They were nobody."  He then expands on it, that they were junkers who sold her, but the knowledge was already in her.
@Sacrebleu
Not only that, but Rian said in a recent interview that he and JJ came up with the same idea for Rey's background. She was "Rey Nobody" to both of them, and I can't see JJ suddenly changing that. They were in complete agreement that the most powerful and difficult thing for Rey to hear was that she doesn't fit neatly into the story because of a familial connection. She isn't the daughter of the Skywalker hero or the granddaughter of the Jedi master who taught Anakin or the Sith lord who created Vader. She is nobody, a junker from Jakku who would have thrown away her life waiting had the events of TFA not shattered her lonely existence.

The irony in it is that her light rose to meet Ben Solo's darkness. They are the story, not Rey Kenobi or Rey Skywalker or Rey Palpatine. It's all about their connection in the Force, their intertwined destiny.

I love the Rey Nobody twist so much I could honestly gush about it for weeks. It's so perfect. It subverts all the "chosen one" cliches and mythological inspirations in the most poignant way, by making it clear that the Force does not belong to the Jedi or the Sith or the light or the dark. It does not choose based on familial links. The Force is not prejudiced against a junker's daughter. She is the light that was born to meet Ben's darkness in a desperate time. She is the nobody who will train the next generation of Jedi. It's really beautiful.
@FrolickingFizzgig

I agree with all of this, but it's also why I think it's vital that they not end the Skywalker line in the ST. This is a great message, but there's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. There's room for this to be the story of a "nobody" who was never really nobody, because nobody is nobody (this is such an eloquent way I'm putting this), meeting her full potential through her own power, and the story of a boy tortured by an overwhelming lineage that has both elevated and destroyed his family for generations finding a balance within himself, and thus for his entire family. 

Basically, I think that a lot of people will come out of this trilogy incredibly bitter at what should be a beautiful journey of Rey's if it means the iconic Skywalker line comes to an end to further that story and message. Even if the ending of the Skywalker line is done in a poignant and peaceful way, the bitterness will still be there for a lot of fans. So I hope LF doesn't do that, even if they never plan to tell another story involving a Skywalker again.
@ZioRen

Exactly this. If the message they're trying to convey is anyone can be somebody, your lineage isn't important and it's no longer about the Skywalkers, that's all fine and good, but not at the complete annihilation of the Skywalkers and undoing of Anakin's redemption. Killing them off to make way for all the Broom boys in the galaxy sounds like Kylo's "kill the past" spiel. If they wanted to focus solely on new characters, they should have set the trilogy a hundred years after ROTJ and disregarded the Skywalkers altogether.

I'm not saying that's what they're doing and I certainly hope it's not, but this trilogy has subverted so many SW tropes and expectations that I don't know what they'll ultimately do. I think nothing is off limits (except Rey going to dark). Would they dare subvert the hero/villain relationship in the ST and have it lead to the villain's death rather than his redemption? I hope that's not the case.  If they are subverting key elements, I hope they subvert things in a optimistic way for Kylo because for goodness sake, he's the last Skywalker/Solo. I hope that still counts for something.

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