Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by YeeRees on Mon 28 May 2018, 9:57 am

I thought Solo was just ok. I liked the Han and Chewie friendship and Alden was good as Han. I liked all the cast but I did have a problem with how the female characters were written.

I’m glad Qi’ra didn’t die like I thought she probably would, she got shortchanged though IMO. We don’t see anything of her struggles, although it’s implied she turned to prostitution to get out of the slums. We don’t really get much on her relationship with Dryden Vos or what she’s done for Crimson Dawn. The Darth Maul cameo didn’t really have any dramatic value other than for people who thought Obi-Wan Kenobi killed him in TPM to scratch their heads and wonder how he survived being cut in two (if they haven’t seen TCW or Rebels).

I saw someone suggest that Val and Beckett’s characters should have been switched, and I have to agree. I like Woody Harrelson a lot but I like Thandie Newton more. It was a shame to lose her so soon and in such a cliched way.

As for L3, I found myself agreeing with this https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2018/05/25/lets-talk-about-solos-darkest-most-disturbing-twist

Enfys Nest was good but she still seemed like more of an afterthought than an integral part of the story.

All those “strong” female characters and it still couldn’t pass the Bechdel test!

I just don’t think the Kasdans even contemplated a lot of these issues. I read this interview with Lawrence and Jon hoping it would clarify a few things, and I suppose it did in a way. It’s funny how Lawrence Kasdan saw Kylo as “seducing Han into a position of vulnerability” before he killed him because that interpretation seems at odds with what JJ said, and they wrote it together! https://www.starwars.com/news/solo-lawrence-and-jonathan-kasdan-interview
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by californiagirl on Mon 28 May 2018, 10:11 am

Regarding the Bechdel test, there might have been a brief exchange between Qira and L3 on the Falcon. Qira asks "What's that?" and L3 describes the dangerous area they are going through. It's not much, but movies that pass the Bechdel test usually barely pass the threshold.

I'm a little confused about how the audience is supposed to view L3. It's played for laughs, like she's over the top obsessed and Lando has to get her back in line. But she's also correct about the horrible ways the droids are treated, like they're dog fighting and made to destroy each other for entertainment, and her droid/human rebellion and subsequent death are treated as this grand, tragic, noble cause. But it's also still for the cuteness and funsies? It feels like the 30% Lord and Miller part of the movie, making me wonder about the tonal issues Kasdan said their version of the film had.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by snufkin on Mon 28 May 2018, 12:06 pm

The whole "it didn't pass the Bechdel test" is such a low bar if you compare Solo with Rogue One, which did pass it for Jyn's scenes with her mother and Mon Mothma. Except that if you look at how much onscreen time and dialogue comes from female characters (surprise, it's mostly Jyn) versus male characters. Solo has way more onscreen time and dialogue for female characters than Rogue One ever did. Also women (or a female homo sapien and a female droid) talking about sex and relationships in the middle of an automatically going to be bro-fest type heist film is pretty signficant in and of itself given how that genre is a classic boy's club. And women talking about sex/relationships period, in Star Wars? Where was Mon Mothma in either the OT or the PT to council the female lead that sometimes getting some NSA is okay when you're a busy lady with a galaxy to lead and that it might be preferable to getting emotionally involved with said walking disaster? I'm 99.99% certain we will get a girl talk scene in IX with Rey and Rose and can predict already that there will be screaming from both the MRA neckbeards as well as fans who're hung up on the Bechdel Test as the penultimate benchmark for what makes a film feminist (which it isn't).

Also there's a dumb a** feminist hot take about Solo I keep seeing floating around the Internets about how Carrie Fisher herself would be up in arms about the movie itself and it's like, 1) Are these people not aware how embedded she was with the writing side of the ST, especially in being Rian Johnson's editor for the story and script. Like anything that's on screen was there in part because it went through a review process that she was a part of and 2) The whole complaint about how L3 is handled, Phoebe Waller-Bridge like Carrie is a writer who isn't a shrinking violet and has some pretty strong opinions. I find a lot of that to be a bit of IDK, people not doing their homework and assuming things to fit their narratives? I'm not 100% crazy about the choices made for L3 (and the part about her becoming part of the Falcon is both deeply weird and also a prime example of LF revisionism the same way the PT is), but to call it out is to ignore that the person who played that role isn't some passive victim of the patriarchy.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by californiagirl on Mon 28 May 2018, 12:34 pm

Rian approves of Solo:


Featuring:


Also: (edit: didn't realize someone else had posted this one on the Twitter thread, but it belongs here too!)
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by YeeRees on Mon 28 May 2018, 12:54 pm

I have nothing against 2 female characters having chit-chat about guys and relationships in a film as long as they get to talk about lots of other stuff too. The fact it so rarely happens and the Bechdel test still gets brought up is a constant disappointment on so many levels. I liked Leia and Amilyn Holdo’s friendship in TLJ but much of it happened off-screen and both of them still had to fawn over Poe at the end. I’m hoping Rey and Rose get to have some kind of friendship in Episode IX that doesn’t involve misplaced jealousy over Finn or judgement over feelings Rey has for Kylo. But I’d be lying if I said I had full confidence in JJ and Chris Terrio given that female characters in Star Wars seem to get short shrift in comparison to the males. The L3 and Qi’ra chat was played for laughs. It also shone a spotlight on another problematic area i.e Jon Kasdan defining Lando as pansexual when all we get is an inference he can “make it work” with a droid and some flirty talk with Han. I suppose that’s as far as a Star Wars movie is willing to go but it won’t do anything for those who want proper representation.

ETA - I heard an interesting interview with Phoebe Waller-Bridge on BBC Radio 2 last week. She talked about how she got her role in Solo, which she credited to Lord and Miller’s love for Fleabag. She also talked about how glad she was to be there as an actress without the scriptwriting pressures etc. I know she improvised the “equal rights” line but, a she said herself, she knew very little about the world of Star Wars beforehand. She hadn’t even watched any of the films at that point and she didn’t know what a droid was before she got to the audition. As forthright as P W-B is as a person and as qualified as she is in her own right as a writer, I don’t think it’s doing her any disservice to assume she trusted the Solo writers/directors with the choices they made for L3 without fully understanding the implications of them in the wider canon. For example, I’m sure she would have been completely unaware with how L3 becoming part of the Falcon could be made to fit C3PO’s line in TESB about the ship having a peculiar dialect and wondering where she learned to communicate. Unlike Carrie Fisher who probably knew a lot of this stuff back to front, Phoebe Waller-Bridge is a novice to the Star Wars universe so I don’t blame her for not spotting the potential pitfalls in the Solo story/character development, even being as good a writer as she is.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rawpowah on Mon 28 May 2018, 3:13 pm

The Bechdel test really doesn't tell you much tbh. Often times you have movies that pass the test, but the portrayal of the female characters is atrocious. Idk if anyone has ever seen "Gravity", but while that movie doesn't pass the Bechdel test, it does a lot more for women than American Hustle (which passes the test, but doesn't have good characterization of the female characters).
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 28 May 2018, 4:40 pm

@rawpowah wrote:The Bechdel test really doesn't tell you much tbh. Often times you have movies that pass the test, but the portrayal of the female characters is atrocious. Idk if anyone has ever seen "Gravity", but while that movie doesn't pass the Bechdel test, it does a lot more for women than American Hustle (which passes the test, but doesn't have good characterization of the female characters).
@rawpowah

Yeah I don't put much stock in it, it really doesn't tell you much. You can have a movie with a female lead and she might be all alone/in isolation for example, and it could be a decent portrayal but it wouldn't pass the Bechdel test. Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (the Angelina Jolie one) fails it as well.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Night Huntress on Mon 28 May 2018, 5:06 pm

I'm ashamed to admit- but actually had to google what the "Bechdel" test even is... and it's pretty dump?

The movie has to have at least two women in it, who talk to each other, about something besides a man- really? That says nothing about the quality of the movie or even the female characters in a story. scratch
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rey09 on Mon 28 May 2018, 5:32 pm

@Riri wrote:Has anyone bought "Most Wanted"?

Han's father calls himself nothing and a nobody.

@Riri

So Kylo is quoting his nobody grandpa lol? Ugh I really want to know how much of Han's life Ben knows. I wonder if Han ever retold these words to his own son. Han's dad told him to fly and that dream even went to his own <3
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Saracene on Mon 28 May 2018, 5:47 pm

@Night Huntress wrote:I'm ashamed to admit- but actually had to google what the "Bechdel" test even is... and it's pretty dump?

The movie has to have at least two women in it, who talk to each other, about something besides a man- really? That says nothing about the quality of the movie or even the female characters in a story. scratch
@Night Huntress

I think that the test simply means to highlight the lack of something as simple as two women talking to each other. I doubt it was ever meant as a measure of overall quality.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Kylo Rey on Mon 28 May 2018, 6:05 pm

So I just saw a gif of the kiss in the closet from Solo on my twitter TL, and damn! That was pretty hot and heavy for a SW movie. Polar opposite of FinnRose's kiss. I can see now why this has given a lot more hope to some of you about Reylo getting a super passionate kiss in IX. And you can't waste all the tension and Adam and Daisy's chemistry like that, all bets are off!
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by ISeeAnIsland on Mon 28 May 2018, 6:16 pm

@Kylo Rey wrote:So I just saw a gif of the kiss in the closet from Solo on my twitter TL, and damn! That was pretty hot and heavy for a SW movie. Polar opposite of FinnRose's kiss. I can see now why this has given a lot more hope to some of you about Reylo getting a super passionate kiss in IX. And you can't waste all the tension and Adam and Daisy's chemistry like that, all bets are off!
@Kylo Rey

They were going to shag in that closet if Beckett hadn't c***blocked them.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by YeeRees on Mon 28 May 2018, 6:26 pm

@Saracene wrote:
@Night Huntress wrote:I'm ashamed to admit- but actually had to google what the "Bechdel" test even is... and it's pretty dump?

The movie has to have at least two women in it, who talk to each other, about something besides a man- really? That says nothing about the quality of the movie or even the female characters in a story. scratch
@Night Huntress

I think that the test simply means to highlight the lack of something as simple as two women talking to each other. I doubt it was ever meant as a measure of overall quality.
@Saracene

The Bechdel Test, originally inspired by a 1985 installment of Alison Bechdel’s comic Dykes to Watch Out For, features a character with three basic requirements for a movie: it has to have at least two women in it, they have to talk to each other, and they have to discuss something besides a man. Although the rule is no guarantee of quality — or well-developed female characters — it’s long been considered a useful tool for assessing how often entertainment excludes women, and whether they are portrayed as three-dimensional characters whose lives do not revolve entirely around men.

From this article www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/12/22/16807424/alternatives-bechdel-test-bad-moms-lena-waithe

I mentioned it in relation to Solo because it really stood out to me (and others) with Qi’ra and L3. I wasn’t offended or anything, it just made me roll my eyes. There were lots of little moments with the female characters that were played for laughs or used to facilitate other characters getting a turn in the spotlight, like when Qi’ra didn’t know what to do in the co-pilot seat so, of course, Chewie has to step in to fly with Han. It’s not that these things are all that awful in isolation, it’s the culminative effect of seeing them in film after film written and directed mostly by white males. Black Panther, for example, managed to have female characters who were smart, funny, fierce, loyal and everything else that women can be without it being seen as pandering or robbing them of their feminine traits. It can be done and it has been done which makes it all the more disappointing when all the old tired cliches keep resurfacing.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rey09 on Mon 28 May 2018, 6:37 pm

I found this quote by the author of Most Wanted, another Rae lol

“In 1983, I was a 10-year-old welfare kid, taking care of my brother and sister while my single mom eked out a meager living as a bank teller,” she says. “I was obsessed with everything Star Wars. That year, all I wanted in the whole world was to see Return of the Jedi. But we couldn’t even afford a Christmas tree, much less a trip to the movies.

“I had to settle for going to my local library and checking out the media tie-in novel. I cried the whole way through it,” she says. “Eventually, I did get to see Episode VI, but I’ll never forget what it was like to find the novelization and hunker down in my bunk bed for hours to read through it multiple times. If I went back in time and told tiny Rae that someday she, too, would be a Star Wars novelist, she would not believe me, because wonderful things like that just didn’t happen to her.

“Well, baby girl, wonderful things do happen, and the galaxy far, far away is so much closer than you think.”
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by SheLitAFire on Mon 28 May 2018, 9:21 pm

@ISeeAnIsland wrote:
@Kylo Rey wrote:So I just saw a gif of the kiss in the closet from Solo on my twitter TL, and damn! That was pretty hot and heavy for a SW movie. Polar opposite of FinnRose's kiss. I can see now why this has given a lot more hope to some of you about Reylo getting a super passionate kiss in IX. And you can't waste all the tension and Adam and Daisy's chemistry like that, all bets are off!
@Kylo Rey

They were going to shag in that closet if Beckett hadn't c***blocked them.
@ISeeAnIsland

Poor Han, always c***blocked by Beckett or C3PO. I laughed at that part.

Also, at least they made it very clear that Han shot first in this movie (final scene with Beckett)

I thought the most poignant scene (or one of the most) was Han & Qi'ra's reunion and he asks her how she got out and she says something like "I haven't"...Emilia did a great job with the scene and the lighting was just gorgeous.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by DeeBee on Tue 29 May 2018, 4:33 am

@Kylo Rey wrote:So I just saw a gif of the kiss in the closet from Solo on my twitter TL, and damn! That was pretty hot and heavy for a SW movie. Polar opposite of FinnRose's kiss. I can see now why this has given a lot more hope to some of you about Reylo getting a super passionate kiss in IX. And you can't waste all the tension and Adam and Daisy's chemistry like that, all bets are off!
@Kylo Rey



Han Solo would approve!
I love you I love you I love you
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rey09 on Tue 29 May 2018, 12:43 pm

Our reylo friend didn't like Solo. I like his RATIONAL thinking process.

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Kylo Rey on Tue 29 May 2018, 1:03 pm

Btw, LFL gave out the dice at an opening night Solo fan event

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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Riri on Tue 29 May 2018, 1:29 pm

@rey09 just watched his review. He didn't like it and its almost the same reason why HelloGreedo, Mr Sunday Movies and Chis Stuckmann (some of my fave reviewers) were critical of it. They felt it was surface level, didn't provide anything new, lacked substance/emotional weight and moved too fast. They also said it felt like a checklist as if everything needed an explanation. I can sort of see these critisms in the movie and its probably why those reviewers loved TLJ. However, Solo is good for what it is and we can still see amazing story parrallels and character depth.

This is Scavenger Hoard's review. They really liked it and in their review they mostly talk about the characters opposed to the spectacle. Their review allowed me to really appreciate the film more!



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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rey09 on Tue 29 May 2018, 3:18 pm

@Riri wrote:@rey09 just watched his review. He didn't like it and its almost the same reason why HelloGreedo, Mr Sunday Movies and Chis Stuckmann (some of my fave reviewers) were critical of it. They felt it was surface level, didn't provide anything new, lacked substance/emotional weight and moved too fast. They also said it felt like a checklist as if everything needed an explanation. I can sort of see these critisms in the movie and its probably why those reviewers loved TLJ. However, Solo is good for what it is and we can still see amazing story parrallels and character depth.

This is Scavenger Hoard's review. They really liked it and in their review they mostly talk about the characters opposed to the spectacle. Their review allowed me to really appreciate the film more!


@Riri

They say that Han Solo is more character driven than plot (compared to Rogue One) but I personally found it quite the opposite. I was getting pretty bored by the rushed adventures didn't feel for much for the characters although I was intrigued by Qi'Ra. I felt Rogue One had more heart to it imo.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by IoJovi on Tue 29 May 2018, 4:41 pm

I have tickets for a second viewing tomorrow night.  I really loved it and I feel like it will be regarded as one of the more underrated films months or years down the road.  I really love the multiple tie ins to the ST, from Han’s dice to Han and Lando’s discussion about their fathers to the blatant Reylo parallel of Qi’ra choosing power over love in the end.  I enjoy the complexity of her character in that while they might not be the right choices, they’re still her choices in the end to make and nobody is doing this for her.  

The half western/half film noir/half space opera aesthetic works really well together.   I also thought the plot was very tight and easy to follow.  I had read reviews prior to my viewing that said the story meanders, and I just don’t see that at all.

Oh and those passionate searing kisses leave me panting for one like that in IX!!!!

 There’s also no way I’m going to catch everything there is to be caught on a first viewing, so I’m really looking forward to tomorrow night.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by rawpowah on Tue 29 May 2018, 4:53 pm

@IoJovi I watched it with my mom (she's GA) and she was only confused about what that coaxium (spelling?) was supposed to do. They mention its uses in the movie, but from what I remember it's in a very quick moment, so she definitely missed it. Other than that, we thought the movie wasn't difficult to follow at all or meandering.
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by snufkin on Wed 30 May 2018, 12:01 am

Slash Film has a couple articles which point out the connections to the other films in the franchise. Some of which are simply counting the Easter Eggs. But for a lot of us, the fact that it was written by the same father-son due who had significant input into the ST, there are connections in Solo which inform us about the ST:

Every Easter Egg and Reference in ‘Solo: a Star Wars Story’

The Echoes of ‘Solo’: How the New ‘Star Wars’ Story Reflects Other Films in the Saga
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by Darth Dingbat on Wed 30 May 2018, 2:33 am

It's amazing how big a difference one's mood makes. When I first saw the film I was physically ill and had a migraine, and I would have given it 7/10. Now I'd give it 9 more objectively, and 10 for my personal enjoyment. When I could concentrate better the choppiness didn't bother me anymore and I thought the plot flowed perfectly well, with only a couple of bits that I felt didn't quite fit or felt awkward. I saw the nuances and ambiguities even more clearly before, and just had so much good old-fashioned fun.

Not that I subscribe to praising something by putting others down, but I suspect Solo is going to be a lot more rewatchable for me than TFA was, and makes me feel that same excitement I felt in 2015/2016 because I love some things in this film so much. In TFA I had butterflies in my stomach about the Reylo scenes, and in Solo it's the Qi'ra scenes.

Qi'ra is actually my favourite character from the Disney Star Wars films. Really captured my imagination. There are so many stories I could imagine telling about her.

I think a lot of people will watch this on Bluray or on TV and think, "Damn, why didn't I go see this in the theatre?"
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Re: Solo: A Star Wars Story [SPOILERS ALLOWED]

Post by SkyStar on Wed 30 May 2018, 2:55 am

@Darth Dingbat wrote:It's amazing how big a difference one's mood makes. When I first saw the film I was physically ill and had a migraine, and I would have given it 7/10. Now I'd give it 9 more objectively, and 10 for my personal enjoyment. When I could concentrate better the choppiness didn't bother me anymore and I thought the plot flowed perfectly well, with only a couple of bits that I felt didn't quite fit or felt awkward. I saw the nuances and ambiguities even more clearly before, and just had so much good old-fashioned fun.

Not that I subscribe to praising something by putting others down, but I suspect Solo is going to be a lot more rewatchable for me than TFA was, and makes me feel that same excitement I felt in 2015/2016 because I love some things in this film so much. In TFA I had butterflies in my stomach about the Reylo scenes, and in Solo it's the Qi'ra scenes.

Qi'ra is actually my favourite character from the Disney Star Wars films. Really captured my imagination. There are so many stories I could imagine telling about her.

I think a lot of people will watch this on Bluray or on TV and think, "Damn, why didn't I go see this in the theatre?"
@Darth Dingbat

I agree so much about Qi'ra. Didn't expect myself to be so fascinated by her - I love how she uses her intuition and cleverness, she can be both compassionate and manipulative. She is a real breathing character with her demons to fight.

Overall I really enjoyed this movie and also the fact that there was no force plot (heh yeah I know i just wanted something different). Yeah, it had some boring moments, some strange lightning stuff that made me check my 3D glasses, but other than that it was good enough and had that special kind of magical feeling I associate SW movies with. cheers
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